Absolute proof of God's existence!?

Question

A common question is asked on the internet. How do we know there is god. Well a logical person would realize that a universe with order and perfection must have a reason. First im going to write a logical statement, than I'm going to give a good example of some amazing complex processes that support that there is god.

There are 3 questions that we must answer.

1. Did the universe come from nothing, which is impossible.
2. Did the universe come from something, that's the logical answer.
3. IF question 2 is is correct, could the universe have been that something that always existed. I'm going to prove to you that the universe could have not always existed.

We all know that this universe is finite in space, time, and matter. How do we know, well the science community agrees that the big bang is about 13 billion light years old. Nothing, not even the best telescope will see anything beyond 13 billion light years. There is no matter to see, so time did not exist. How can we prove it.

Well think of it this way. Everything in this universe is made up of matter, time and space.

Time is finite no one can argue that it is infinite. Time is simply a measure of changes in matter. IF time is infinite it had no beginning and no end. IF time had no beginning and no end, then there would be no changes and everything would cease to exist. Time is motion of molecules if time is infinite then matter and space cease to exist. Example if i tell you that after you run for infinite miles, I will give you a billion dollars. Would you ever get the prize. NO!

Matter is the same finite. By definition matter is anything that has mass. Can you have infinite mass? No you cannot because that would mean our universe would never have an end, and it also contradicts time. Since time is the measure of changes in matter, and time had a beginning, than matter had a beginning thus matter is finite.

What is space. Space is simply the measure length/width/height of two objects made of matter/mass. If matter is finite than space is finite.

So all the properties of the universe are finite then they had to come from something, otherwise we would make a fallacious statement that something came from nothing.

Lets bring god into equation. God has the following properties. He does not have matter, no space, and no time, he is eternal meaning he has always been there.

Can something made of finite properties create finite properties no because you have to be outside the finite dimension or eternal/infinite in order to create finite things such as time, space and matter.

God is not bound to space, time and matter thus he crated everything. You cannot argue otherwise because if all the properties of the universe are finite than they require an infinite property. Otherwise you would make the wrong conclusion that everything came from nothing.

Here is another way of looking at it. An intelligent design requires an intelligent creator. Chance does not explain perfection. One could say infinite chances do explain perfection, well you cannot have infinite chances in a finite enviroment.

Lets look at some intelligent designs. The DNA itself is a miracle. One single cell can hold a library's worth of information. Well the DNA is full of codes and symbols in the billions. By nature patterns occur naturally, codes or symbols do not occur without a designer. If you argue that the code of DNA was spontaneous than lets look it from a different perspective.

Lets say that the order of code in the DNA was spontaneous, Where did the language system and translation system come from. Scientists have not been able to show the origin of the information in cells. A code system is always the result of a mental process it requires an intelligent origin. Ex: in the hieroglyphic inscription there was an intelligent agent behind it. Cognition and creativity was required. There is no known natural law through which matter can give rise to information.

I can give you thousands of examples of how perfection does not come by chance, but i think i've made my point. I hope to hear some opinions.

Answer 1

"We all know that this universe is finite in space, time, and matter. How do we know, well the science community agrees that the big bang is about 13 billion light years old. Nothing, not even the best telescope will see anything beyond 13 billion light years. There is no matter to see, so time did not exist. How can we prove it."



Okay, first off, you're confusing time with distance. A light year is a measure of how far light travels in a year. Also, your numbers are way off. Based on our best measurements to date, the universe began expanding about 13.7 billion years ago. But the edge of the observable universe (the part we can actually see) is about 45 billion light years away. So you might ask, how can we see objects that are further away than light can travel in the age of the universe? Because the universe is expanding. The light didn't have as far to travel earlier in the expansion of the universe, so we can see objects that are now quite distant.



"So all the properties of the universe are finite then they had to come from something"



This is your major problem, though. It is quite possible that the high-energy plasma that our universe expanded from has always existed. In other words, it is not necessarily finite in existence. Or it is possible that our ideas of causation and existence don't really apply to the state of the universe prior to expansion. And even if we assume that there had to be a prior cause, there's no reason to assume that cause was some sort of conscious, transcendent being.



I could go on punching holes in your claims, but I have to go home and eat dinner.

Answer 2

You didn't "do your research," you cut & pasted.



In your third sentence you state a premise without supporting evidence of any kind as if it's fact, and it uses inductive reasoning to boot -- any 7th grade math student will tell you that you can't draw any general conclusion from inductive reasoning, all it can do is generate testable hypotheses.



Then your first "question" isn't even a question -- when you add "which is impossible" to the end, it's a statement, not a question. Oh, and there is no scientific theory (which is a set of explanations for observed phenomena backed by evidence) which states that "the universe came from nothing," so it's a straw-man argument as well.



I could go on and on...but there are so many logical flaws, assumptions of fact without evidence, and plain old factual errors in your diatribe (light travels at 186k miles per second, not 187, for example)...



I suggest you go learn something about logic, reasoning, math, science, and a whole bunch of other subjects if you want to make arguments that people will take seriously. Otherwise, they'll just rip up the huge number of mistakes, as many have done here.



I will give you an A for "effort" for at least trying to think about things, though!



Peace.

Answer 3

I'm a very scientific and analytical person. I have questioned this many times but I have come up with something that I believe it pretty true. There is a god and I'm not him. Moreover, the proof for me is actually pretty obvious yet overlooked by like, everyone. It's so obvious that we don't equate it to religion. That's what makes it even more likely to be the proof, because the real God would not care which religion we have so long as we have a religion based on him. Every religion on this world worships something. Christians believe it is their god while Muslims believe their god is different. What if they are all the same. Think about it, we have black, white, red, yellow and all other mixes of people in yet we are all still people created by god. So what's to say he didn't create/allow all these other religions since they too, in some form, worship him/her/it. Muslims are not going to hell and neither are Christians or Catholics or Jews or even Buddhists because they all are doing what god wanted. A father loves his child no matter what and I can't see any god creating one set list of rules and saying do this or I don't love you any more. Everyone is equal and loved in his eyes. It's only the twisted beliefs of others that lead people to think their way is the only way. Christians follow the bible literally to the grave. Same with Muslims and others. All say this is the word of god and you are going to hell. They are too blind to see through the eyes of others and open their minds. That is religions biggest failure. It closes eyes instead of opening them. As for proof, look up every few years. You will see a moon exactly one-third the distance from the Earth from the Sun. You will see a moon that rotates exactly the same time around its axis as around the Earth. You will see the only body in the solar system which is of perfect size to cast a perfect shadow on another body (eclipse). It happens no where else. The positioning and specifications have to be so exact that this could only be done, IMO, by god. And the best part, it hits the whole world without screaming rules or judgement. We are just too blind to see what it really is

Answer 4

Please show me your documentation that god is infinite and has no relation to space and time. Oh my it is simply your opinion. Time is a man made concept. It has meaning on a quantum scale but what you are talking about is a man made concept and has nothing to do with what you are talking about.



Yes there is a natural law where matter can give information it is called DNA. The smallest self replicating RNA is only 1800 proteins, easily manufactored in the primordial soup.



The universe could be infinite in time, it just recycles. God is a concept, the universe is real.



You babbled a lot, but made no sense to anyone with more than a handfull of functional braincells. What is sad is that some one will actually believe you.

Answer 5

Actually, this is wrong. There is no such thing as "before the Big Bang". Time is a dimension, like north, south, etc. Can you go south of the South Pole? No. Since time begins at the Big Bang, you can't go before it.



Also, #1 is false. Check out quantum mechanics. Matter routinely comes into existence from nothing at the quantum level.



"An intelligent design requires an intelligent creator. " Then who intelligently created the intelligent creator? What? He doesn't need one? Then, why does the universe require one?

Answer 6

The difference between science and religion is that a scientist is willing to say "I don't know" when they don't know. It leaves a lot more to be discovered than simply answering "It must be God." Just because something is unknown doesn't mean we should assume an omnicient being. That interferes with progress and advancement in our species.



"I can give you thousands of examples of how perfection does not come by chance..."



Why would you assume perfection? That seems a bit naive.

Answer 7

At least Thomas Aquinas didn't say "13 billion light years old" when he wrote Suma Theologica. Next time skip the wall of text and just say "First mover".



edit:

let's apply your assertion:

1. Did the universe come from nothing, which is impossible.

to

[God] does not need to come from anywhere.

You're applying a double standard.

That is the fundamental flaw in the whole class of "first mover" arguments. It doesn't answer the question, it just tells you to stop asking it.

Answer 8

All I can say is:::: Do you believe anything is possiable? If so, then why do so many have a hard time believing God exist? If Not, then everything would happen by chance. It would be a very huge chance that everything would just poof into existance. God is the alpha and Omega. The begining and the end. He always was. That is my belief.



He created it, he destroyed it. he created it again. And he will be back to set things right in the end. Peace.

Answer 9

"Well a logical person would realize that a universe with order and perfection must have a reason."

There was NO point going any further.

That's the old Argument from Personal Incredulity.

** DRINK **



They're like these ones...

ARGUMENT FROM CREATION, a.k.a. ARGUMENT FROM PERSONAL INCREDULITY (I)

(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.

(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable.

(3) Therefore, God exists.



ARGUMENT FROM FEAR

(1) If there is no God then we're all going to not exist after we die.

(2) I'm afraid of that.

(3) Therefore, God exists.



ARGUMENT FROM THE BIBLE

(1) [arbitrary passage from OT]

(2) [arbitrary passage from NT]

(3) Therefore, God exists.



ARGUMENT FROM INTELLIGENCE

(1) Look, there's really no point in me trying to explain the whole thing to you stupid atheists; it's too complicated for you to understand. God exists whether you like it or not.

(2) Therefore, God exists.



ARGUMENT FROM UNINTELLIGENCE

(1) Okay, I don't pretend to be as intelligent as you guys — you're obviously very well read. But I read the Bible, and nothing you say can convince me that God does not exist. I feel him in my heart, and you can feel him too, if you'll just ask him into your life. "For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son into the world, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish from the earth." John 3:16.

(2) Therefore, God exists.



ARGUMENT FROM BELIEF

(1) If God exists, then I should believe in Him.

(2) I believe in God.

(3) Therefore, God exists.



ARGUMENT FROM INTIMIDATION, a.k.a. TOMAS DE TORQUEMADA'S ARGUMENT

(1) See this bonfire?

(2) Therefore, God exists.



PARENTAL ARGUMENT

(1) My mommy and daddy told me that God exists.

(2) Therefore, God exists.



ARGUMENT FROM NUMBERS

(1) Billions of people believe in God.

(2) They can't all be wrong, can they?

(3) Therefore, God exists.



HUNDREDS more here:

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodPro…

~

Answer 10

Actually good job, you raised some valid points. It appears that all non believers are trying to find one single mistake in your sentences and avoid the main point. So typical.



Science has not been able to prove nothing, and if we have so many clever scientists, then prove that god does not exist.

Answer 11

Time and space are illusions. On top of that the illusion of space is believed to be able to bend. Never mind all that nonsense. To pretend to offer proof of God is like writing your name on water. It cant be done. It is impossible and especially naive to even think that you can.

Answer 12

"logical person would realize that a universe with order and perfection must have a reason" - I disagree, good thing i disagree with your premise because I didn't want to read the rest :P

Answer 13

Copy and paste much?

And Holy Jesus on a stick with arms, light years dont measure time, they measure distance.

Answer 14

Circularity.

Answer 15

I basically read,



1) blajidiblahblah

2) god did it

3) If 1 is right, then god exists



http://www.talkorigins.org



Next.

Answer 16

If you ever take a logic class, you're gonna be soooo embarrassed!

Answer 17

fail on line 3, ''must have a reason.'' fatal assumption. better luck next time.

Answer 18

1. If something can't come from nothing where did "god" come from.



The universe is perfect? Please explain colliding galaxies?



Fail.

Answer 19

all i noticed is that none of your questions have question marks