How does 'original followers of jesus were Jewish' give 'legitimacy' to gospelJesus dogma?

Question

They were members of a messianic Jewish sect who gave up believing after he did not do what they expected him to do; they were misguided and did not add credibility to what later was related in gospelNT or to what later became the 'christian faith' which contradicted and discarded most that was Jewish due to influence of pagan gentiles. The fact that the 'original followers were Jewish' actually
'detracts credibility' because they eventually realized the fallacy. The later 'Jewish gospel writers' and
Luke werte influenced by Greek and Roman pagan beliefs which were reflected in their conflicting and contradictory narratives which were later revised with christian religious bias and inculcated into
christian roman church.

Answer 1

To make logical points, all your logic has to be true.



They were members of a messianic Jewish sect who gave up believing after he did not do..." is not at all true. Sure, many be a few out of the thousands gave up believing but there is no documentation for that though it is highly likely. As for those written about in the NT, they didn't give up. They might have when he was on the cross but there would be no NT if they'd done more than have cold feet that night. They believed or there would have been no gospel for you to complain about 2000 years later on.



The whole of the "Original followers of Jesus were Jewish" thing is to correct Christianity. To show that Judaism was/is the base faith, that it was and still is valid.



Much of the rest of your statements are correct. The pagan influences have ruined much of Christianity exactly because it infiltrated.



You go on to say, "The fact that the 'original followers were Jewish' actually

'detracts credibility' because they eventually realised the fallacy." The fallacy of what? That paganism is wrong? They knew that all along. It's the reason so many of the apostles did not at first wish to let in Gentiles to their Messiah following, but God let them in, so they had to. They knew what would end up happening, the same that happens whenever Israel let in pagan god worshipping too. What "fallacy" do you mean, the ones that pervades in Christianity today?



It is in returning to the One God and His Word Incarnate (a Jewish Jesus) that cleans up what Christianity is valid.



You are right that the Roman Catholic Church is about as pagan as it can get while claiming to have the God of Moses, Abraham and Christ. Just listen to Francis I's prayer the other day, asking Peter, Paul, and Mary (with a token mention of Jesus) to "intercede" for us all.



Real Christians don't do that. Not surprising, they don't follow a Jewish Jesus!



But the Jews have had the same problem all down the line since Egypt too, the ones who stay the course, are called "the remnant" according to Rabbi's worldwide. Same thing happens in Christianity/Messianism.



It is blatantly false to say the original followers gave up on their new found faith. How many times have succeeding generations of Jews gone off track what Joshua's or Joshiah fulfilled properly too?

Answer 2

***They were members of a messianic Jewish sect who gave up believing after he did not do what they expected him to do;***



I can appreciate your desire to copy the KKK and Nazis but the purpose of Yahoo Answers is not to give your personal opinion without proper documentation that what you have said actually has some basis of fact. Should community guidelines apply to everyone or would you force Nazis and left-wing democrats (known for their prejudices) to present their opinions as openly and unqualified as you did?



***The later 'Jewish gospel writers' and Luke werte influenced by Greek and Roman pagan beliefs***



Actually, if you did a side by side comparison with Rabbinic Judaism, you would find more conformity...thus reversing you conclusions.



After all, Zakkai was so completely rejected by real Jews that the only reason he became the first rabbi is because he fake is death to deceive the JEWISH guard and then bff'd the butcher of about a million Jews. Their isn't an intelligent non-Messianic Jew who doesn't know that if wasn't for the power of Rome behind Zakkai, Zakkai would never have been the first rabbi, the seat of the Sanhedrin would have never been moved to the city where Caesar Augustine still had an operational summer home, and the Passover would never have been changed to so that being Roman servants instead of a free people.



Nor do people like yourself know the material which you claim to have knowledge.



Luke 1:***since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.*** http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%201&version=NIV



*** that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.*** http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+15&version=NIV



The text asks you to talk to the other witnesses that were still alive coupled with people who were bound, tarred and burned for Nero's cocktail parties and whose skulls can still be seen in Rome today present an argument that crushes your unsubstantiated opinion.



Edit



In a side by side comparison, Feivel hides from Zakkai. He doesn't want to attempt to find a verse in the Jewish scriptures that would justify calling a deceiver and traitor a Jewish hero. Nor can he justify the changes Zakkai made given it is impossible to call the first rabbi a prophet.



By definition, a prophet knows the will of God and brings HaShem's instructions to His people.

By definition, rabbis only has their opinion and demonstrates their cluelessness about what God's will is by their admission that they don't know what the Creator of the universe made them to do during their lifetime.



There is no comparing a prophet with a rabbi as the rabbi will never be able to say how the Lord is being a Shepherd to His people as all scripture teach.



Fifty days after the resurrection of the Jewish Messiah, 120 JEWS were filled with the spirit of God (3rd person of the Trinity) as were all the Jewish prophets fulfilling the Jewish scriptures (Joel 2) All Believers trace their spiritual heritage back to this JEWISH event.



It can't be a Christian event because the word "Christian" wasn't invented yet.



Edit



Davids said: ***the apostles did not at first wish to let in Gentiles to their Messiah following, but God let them in, so they had to.***



Isn't it funny that you believe that the Apostles knew better than their Creator. How perfectly irrational!



Did you also forget that Abraham was a Gentile before becoming a Hebrew and that Abraham had a Gentile as his priest? Now that is a big GOTCHA, isn't it?....because that means the Gentile's priesthood is superior to Aaron's so how could this non-Hebrew not be a pagan?...but that is what the Jewish scriptures teach.



Hmmm, maybe you should let the Living God of Israel be the Great Shepherd and let us sheep agree that He knows what is He is doing, is doing what is best for us, and does a lot better job of being God than we do.

Answer 3

It doesn't but they trot that out all the time. The "jesus was Jewish" thing seems to only work that way. If you trot out "Joseph Smith grew up protestant so I guess all protestants are really mormons and mormons are "fulfilled protestants, they don't like that.



Your analysis is spot on though

Answer 4

That is only your opinion. Not a fact. Jesus is Lord.

Answer 5

These modern so-called Christian leaders will tell you that all you need to do is "believe" and have "faith" and that anything else is a lie, a deception. Really? Jesus Himself says quite differently, and one has to decide if one wants to believe these fakes out there or believe THEIR BIBLE and what JESUS CHRIST HAD TO SAY ABOUT IT



Matt 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

KJV



“And then I will declare in a PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT TO THEM, I NEVER CAME

TO KNOW YOU EXPERIENTIALLY…”



Modern Christians have been taught that all they need do is to “believe”, and often use John 3:16 as the basis for their claiming entrance to heaven. In other words, because they embraced a few verses of Scripture as being TRUE, and in BELIEVING IN THEM (THE VERSES), they were taught they were in fact saved by that embracement,by that "belief" and nothing else was needed or necessary. Instead of the “experiential encounter” with Christ, now totally denied by modern Christian theology, they instead substitute a belief in a verse of Scripture.





Now Jesus warned us that the Scriptures were NOT HIM, but just a testimony of Himself. In other words, the Bible is NOT JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF, and the words that are in the Bible ARE NOT JESUS CHRIST EITHER. The Bible is simply a BOOK OF TESTIMONY concerning the LORD! The Bible, however, does TELL US WHAT WE MUST DO TO BE SAVED, that is, the METHOD that Christ brought with Him. What modern Christianity has done is to make the Scriptures CHRIST HIMSELF, WHILE THE LIVING CHRIST, THE ONE WHO SAVES YOU, HAS BEEN CAST OUT.



John 5:39-42

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not

come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.



Notice the wording of this, it is important. THE SCRIPTURES ARE SEARCHED in a vain attempt to obtain ETERNAL LIFE. Now we know from John that eternal life can only be found IN THE SON:

1 John 5:11-12

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life,

and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life;

and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

KJV



Now then if eternal life is in THE SON, and ONLY THE SON HAS IT, then the statement made by Christ “YOU WILL NOT COME TO ME THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE LIFE” takes on serious meaning, for what He is telling you, or warning you, is that we must come to THE PERSON OF CHRIST. Christ really is alive and well in the heavens, and HE IS WAITING FOR YOU TO COME TO HIM in the prescribed manner.





Now The Lord tells us what ETERNAL LIFE really is, and we know that this LIFE IS IN THE SON, that is, JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY NAME UNDER THE HEAVENS BY WHICH ANYONE CAN BE SAVED, for He is the EXCLUSIVE HOLDER OF ETERNAL LIFE, for no one under the heavens was ordained by GOD THE FATHER to come down here to GIVE THIS LIFE. Now “life” is defined by the Bible itself as this:



John 17:3

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

KJv





“And this is eternal life, namely, that they might be having an experiential knowledge of you, the only genuine God, and of Him whom you sent on a mission, Jesus Christ.”



John 10:27-30

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.