Question:
Did Jesus Exist?
klover_dso
2007-09-14 19:15:51 UTC
The writings in the Bible came 40-100 years after his death making it not a likely accurate source. Is Jesus like Hercules just a man that was glorified until he became a god? The writings of Josephus have been proven as false, and faith is not an appropriate answer (my mother told me when I was very young Jesus wrote the Bible and still believes that to this day.) I would like evidence for and against his existence and appreciate everyone that reads over the answers to look at evidence for and against with rational thought and reason. Feel free to IM me to continue any further discussions on the subject.
36 answers:
?
2007-09-14 20:28:51 UTC
If you truly want the absolute truth behind it 'all', there is one

book that will give you all of the answers. My husband has

gone to greath lengths to study the origin of Christianity and

other religions as well. It came about after our son joined the

Jehovahs' Witnesses, and we could not get help from any

minister in the local Christian community to help deprogram

our son. He is still a devout follower to this day. I don't know

if it is still considered the largest cult among the churches

and organizations that classify themselves as Christians.

But it is one of THE largest at any rate.

Through the research my husband did in desperation

to find out if not just our son was living a lie, but include us

as well. Our beliefs had become shakey as the result of our sons' mistreatment of us. How could God/Jesus allow such

a thing to happen to families who believed in him, but diff-

erent than how we were raised to believe? And to allow

family members to hate another in the name of God?

What we have learned has been unbelievable. I went through a grieving process, which eventually turned to anger, from being duped all my life. And the generations before me as well.

To think of all the wars that were based on religious beliefs

since early man began, has all been a waste of breath and

of life. The tortures done in the name of religion is unfathom-

able. The superstitions, the agonies that people accepted

and believed. And living in fear, and having to conform.

The book I would seriously recommend that you read, is

entitled, 'The Bloodline of the Holy Grail', by Lawrence Gard-

ner. You may have to re read it to comprehend all it has to 'enlighten' you about. You will find that one thing that was discovered when scientists took an interest in the writing of the bible, is that terms we now use have different meanings than those used back in those times. There is so much dissecting and studying of scripture and discussion of how

things came to be written as they were, that it all will be hard

to digest, because it will go against all you were led to

believe as a child, or an adult. It will be the most important

book you will ever read in your lifetime., Believe me.

I'd like to hear from you, after you've read it. As the more people have been exposed to it's contents, the more who will no longer have to live in fear of not being baptized, or not going to heaven. And as for hell, well, I truly believe, it is right here on earth.

The scriptures were meant to control early civilization.From this control came about the rules of humanity, and caring for mankind. WIthout rules to control, there would be chaos and massive destruction. There would be no order, only animalistic behavior. The Roman rulers wanted an orderly and obedient community. And so the first leaders of the Roman Catholic Church laid their foundation under the watchful eye of the Roman rulers. You will find more than your mind can handle when you devour the pages of the book I have recommended to you. and to anyone interested in finally learning the secrets that have been hidden for so long. You

will be enlightened, and you will feel liberated.
Legend Gates Shotokan Karate
2007-09-14 19:27:22 UTC
Hi



First off I am a Pagan but i do accept that Historiclly Jesus did exist as a man.



the Roman documents of the era prove it.



Now whether he is the son of God or not is a whole different subject all together, but the man himself DID exist once and he was murdered or crucified if you will by the Romans. That is all historical fact written and preserved from the Roman era.



So if you want evidence he existed then check historical documents regarding the Romans rule of Judea and Pontius Pilot who was the Governor of that Region then. There you will find your proof he was a real human being.



It does not however prove he was the son of god or not the son. That is not answered.



Hope that helps.



(It is also funny how only the zealout Christians always thumb down anyone not of their beleif, it cracks me up lol. That is why they are so stupid and cannot think for themselves)



ACTUALLY YES Pontias DOES have records of his Execution what documents are you reading? He very much was killed by the Romans, they were maticulate on recording things and i am not talking about Josephus either!!
TroothBTold
2007-09-14 19:33:43 UTC
You need to cite your sources. Who proved and how was it proven that the writings of Josephus were false?



What evidence is there that Hercules actually existed?



Did you know that it takes 150 or more years for legend/myth to be built? You said yourself that the New Testament writings began about 40 years after - while many other witnesses were still alive, yet no other writings exist which contradict Biblical accounts.



Hercules did not impact lives and change the world. Hercules did not teach, heal and extend hope to anyone. Hercules is pure myth and that is why we study Greek Mythology in school, it is mythology.



Yet, Jesus made an impact as no other. His teachings, His unconditional love, His example was like no other. The first century church was full of the love of Jesus, the compassion of Jesus and were full of zeal which carries on in most Christians in the world, today. No religion has crossed cultural lines like Christianity.



You won't find any archaeological evidence of Jesus - He is not dead. But, you will find no concrete evidence that He did not exist. There is more support that He was here on this earth than there is for His non-existence (a few theories and some weak circular reasonings, at best).
?
2016-10-20 04:55:58 UTC
of course, while you're putting off Christian writers, its like saying, "are you able to coach Julius Ceasar existed without utilising Roman writings?" There are quite some individual writings approximately Jesus written interior of a hundred years of His dying. additionally, Pliny the greater youthful, Tacitus and Suetonius (all non-Christians) wrote approximately Jesus. the main suitable non-Christian writing of Christ from his term, although, is by way of Josephus, the Jewish historian. He took painstaking efforts in making precise histories. He wrote a splash approximately Jesus and others suggested interior the NT.
---
2007-09-14 21:33:26 UTC
ok, are people really still asking this question? lord have mercy. quit holding your crystals and get over it, man. yes, there are 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

million facts that aid or prove to his existence.

jewish historical records.

roman records.

eye witness testimonies.



there's probably more proof for it that there is of your existence. but since you no doubt refuse eye witness testimonies as evidence, you can't use eye witnesses for proof of your life. if you won't accept jesus' than i won't accept yours. so now you have no family, no friends to help you prove your existence. how many forms of ID do you have? who has written about you? how much money is in your bank? do you own a house or a car? i guess yahoo answers might prove you exist, but then again, that's just your avatar. that could be anyone. no, i think you're a fake.

poof..........you're gone.

in 2000 years people will doubt you too.
michael m
2007-09-14 19:28:41 UTC
Josephus 's writings were never proven false. There are many other first century historians that mention Jesus Christ. The calendar was formatted around His ministry. A.D.-Anno Domino is latin for the year of our Lord and B.C.-is Before Christ. It was this way for 2000 years, and now they they call it C.E- common era and B.C.E.- before common era. The Gospels were written during His lifetime. If He didn't exist, then why would thousands of people be willing to die for something that was named for someone that never existed? That is just illogical at best.
flindo61
2007-09-15 00:02:18 UTC
Joh:3:11: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

Joh:3:12: If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Joh:3:13: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Joh:3:14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Joh:3:15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh:3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh:3:17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh:3:19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Joh:3:20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Joh:3:21: But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

FIRST WE HAVE TO BELIEVE.
Elana
2007-09-14 19:24:21 UTC
If you look at the bible as a literal interpretation of ANYTHING, you're eventually going to be disappointed.



However, the book remains a remarkable piece of literature for both the religious and non-religious and is certainly the foundation for (at this point) MOST of Western philosophy.



Did Jesus exist? Yeah, I expect you are right that there was a remarkable man whose attributes have been exploded to myth and legend.



Does the concept of a savior for our sins have enough power to base a religion around? You betcha. Is it bad that there is a large part of humanity being better people because they all believe in this thing which will probably never be completely understood. I don't think so.



Call it mass hysteria. Call it the workings of a divine mind. Call it a bologna sandwhich - its the results that count.
Gone
2007-09-14 19:22:53 UTC
If He did not exist, why the writings in the Bible came after his death and was glorified to become a God
miaka
2007-09-14 19:21:51 UTC
Hercules is part of Roman mythology if not Greek.anyway still he's a part of a myth but Jesus is part of the bible--the book of good news,hence, for me as a Christian He really exist,however i don't remember any teachings that He wrote the bible. Even some of the wiccans i personally know believe that He existed and admire His teachings.
Robert S
2007-09-14 19:27:29 UTC
Where do you get your opinion about Josephus?

Your mother is technically incorrect;-{ trying to over-simplify.

But the Bible is called the 'Word of God' by many people.

There were many more books written about Jesus.

The Church eliminated many of them as unreliable.

What we have left (in the Christian Scriptures),

were written by people who knew Jesus & the Apostles.

The Gospels were compiled from sayings of Jesus.

The Epistles were letters which were circulated at the time.

So I think we can take the scriptures as reliable opinion.

For Christians, with faith, it's a matter of experience.

You know, when you know!
hunterkyrie
2007-09-14 20:05:36 UTC
Jesus being the son of God doesn't make him make believe.We have plenty of writings and historical documents to prove his existence. It's weird that people try to disprove him.
n9wff
2007-09-14 19:22:30 UTC
Let's see,

they didn't have laptops, printing presses, or anything that we have today the like.

Everything had to be done on parchment with ink quills. If you think that a simple letter would be written in a short period of time, you are easily misled.



25000 manuscripts still exist of these writings. Some of these manuscripts were written by people who witnessed Jesus on earth. And science and archeology authenticate these writings. Even artifacts being dug up substantiate the claims of the Bible as authentic.
2007-09-14 19:21:01 UTC
If you look at the bible as a history book which it is yes he existed and is mentioned in many other history books from the Greeks Romans and many others Persians Ethiopians many who did not follow him but made ment ion of him for he was and is real.Also much of the bible is prophecy of his coming and he had to fill so much criteria that he was the one who was for told of.
.
2007-09-14 19:41:03 UTC
You should really watch the videos provided by I C U.

Really life changing.
2007-09-14 19:19:22 UTC
the roman historian Josephus mentions Jesus so there WAS a historical Jesus. the rest you need to figure out on your own.
Lov'n IT!
2007-09-14 19:18:39 UTC
Yes
Faye
2007-09-14 19:24:49 UTC
He existed before He came to earth as a baby, He exists now, He will exist forever. He is in my heart and He guides me daily. Without Him, life is nothing. Faith may "not be an appropriate answer", but it is the right answer.
tudorturtle
2007-09-14 19:29:59 UTC
Yes he was a simple carpenter with a good idea. Then someone built a belief system out of it. Then his good idea got lost in the hoop-la.
ready4sea
2007-09-14 19:19:01 UTC
Why would 11 of 12 disciples be martyred for a lie?
Gardener for God(dmd)
2007-09-14 19:39:34 UTC
If we look at the Bible simply as a historic document, it should be among the most reliable on record compared with others.



Historians routinely cite Herodotus as a key source of information. He wrote from 488 B.C. to 428 B.C. and the earliest copy of his work comes from 900 A.D. (1,300 years later). There are only eight known copies of his work.



By contrast, the New Testament of the Bible (with all its information about Jesus) was written between 40 A.D. and 100 A.D. The earliest known copy is from 130 A.D. and there are 5,000 known copies in Greek, 10,000 in Latin and 9,300 in other languages.



Still, to put to rest the notion that there is no historic and scientific proof of Jesus outside the Bible, we may look to Jewish historian Flavius Josephus and to Roman historian Carius Cornelius Tacitus - both well known and accepted.



Josephus, in the book Jewish Antiquities" wrote:



"At that time lived Jesus, a wise man, if he may be called a man; for he performed many wonderful works. He was a teacher of such men as received the truth with pleasure. . . .And when Pilate, at the instigation of the chief men among us, had condemned him to the cross, they who before had conceived an affection for him did not cease to adhere to him. For on the third day he appeared to them alive again, the divine prophets having foretold these and many other wonderful things concerning him. And the sect of the Christians, so called from him, subsists at this time" (Antiquities, Book 18, Chapter 3, Section 1).



there were other contemporary historians who were secular non-Christian writers with no motive to fabricate events. Tacitus, a Roman historian, wrote the following in his Annals, c. AD 115, which refer to what the Roman Emperor Nero did after the great fire of Rome which occured c. AD 64:



"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."Annals 15 -44



Exitiabilis is the latin word for mischievous. It means destructive, fatal, deadly. Tacitus was stating that it was “a destructive or fatal or deadly superstition”. By effectively calling Christianity evil, it is obvious that he was not a Christian. It is important to note that Tacitus is not referring to the death of Jesus as superstition either. Tacitus wrote his history of Rome covering the death of Augustus to the death of Domitian,c.14-96 AD. He used earlier works by historians cross referencing them with each other. He sought to verify his facts, something unusual in the writing of the time.



Phlegon, a Greek writer of the 2nd Century provides further evidence:



"Phlegon mentioned the eclipse which took place during the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus and no other (eclipse); it is clear that he did not know from his sources about any (similar) eclipse in previous times . . . and this is shown by the historical account of Tiberius Caesar." Origen and Philopon, De. opif. mund. II21



"And with regard to the eclipse in the time of Tiberius Caesar, in whose reign Jesus appears to have been crucified, and the great earthquakes which then took place ...” Origen Against Celsus



Another Roman writer who was familiar with Christ and his followers is Suetonius (A.D. 75-160). Suetonius considered Christ (Chrestus) as a Roman insurgent who stirred up seditions under the reign of Claudius (A.D. 41-54): "Judaeos, impulsore Chresto, assidue tumultuantes (Claudius) Roma expulit" (Clau., xxv).



The Jewish Talmud, another ancient document written shortly after Christ's life on Earth refers to Jesus having been crucified on the eve of Passover.



The gospel records: What about the gospel accounts? Importantly, they were written by eyewitnesses. Lee Strobel in his book "The case for Christ" rightfully states that the "eyewitnesses who wrote about Jesus were preaching to people who lived at the same time and in the same area that Jesus lived. This is important, because if the disciples were exaggerating or rewriting history, their audiences would have known it and called them on it.." By the end of the nineteenth century, archaeological discoveries had confirmed the accuracy of the New Testament manuscripts. Discoveries of early papyri were consistent with documentation from the time of Christ to later manuscripts. In addition to the papyri discoveries, an abundance of other manuscripts came to light. Over 24,000 copies of early New Testament manuscripts are known to be in existence today. In fact, as historical records, the gospel accounts can be considered to be some of the the most reliable ever.
Apologist
2007-09-14 20:25:16 UTC
The phrase "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" was popularized by Carl Sagan (1934 - 1996), a well-known astronomer and author who hosted a TV series called "Cosmos," published hundreds of scientific articles, and was professor of astronomy at Cornell University in New York. The statement is self explanatory; if someone makes an extraordinary claim, there better be extraordinary evidence to back it up. If, for example, someone made the claim that an alien race has made contact with earth, we would need sufficient evidence to verify the claim, such as an alien space craft, or an actual alien. The extraordinary claim would need extraordinary evidence.

At the heart of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" is a healthy and normal skepticism. There are far too many charlatans and con-men in the world who make extraordinary claims without evidence to back them up. Unfortunately, too many people lack the necessary skepticism and critical thinking skills to help them avoid being duped by con artists and wild theories. Personally, except for a few qualifications, I agree with the sentiment of the statement "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Those qualifications follow.

Presuppositions

Requiring extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims sounds good on the surface. But, it is subjective. The fact is that a person's presuppositions strongly affect how and to what degree the statement is applied. In Jesus' resurrection, for example, Christians presuppose that God exists and that He could easily have raised Jesus from the dead. The evidence of fulfilled prophecy, eyewitness records, and changed lives of the disciples is enough to convince many people who believe in God that Jesus rose from the dead. This is a logical conclusion based on the presupposition and the evidence.

Atheists, on the other hand, would negate the resurrection by default since their presupposition that there is no God1 would require that God involvement cannot occur. Therefore, for an atheist the extraordinary evidence would have to be "exceptionally" extraordinary in order to overcome his atheistic presuppositions. In other words, evidence would need to be presented that was rock solid and irrefutable.

This is why the skeptic must require "extraordinary evidence." It enables him to retain his presupposition should the extraordinary level of the evidence not be met. Therefore, requiring extraordinary evidence effectively stacks the deck against the claim.

What would qualify as extraordinary evidence?

When debating skeptics, I often ask them to tell me what would qualify as extraordinary evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. Generally, nothing sensible is offered. Normal evidence would be written accounts. Extraordinary evidence would be a film, but we know that this extraordinary evidence is not reasonable since there was no film in Jesus' time. Therefore, can the requirement that extraordinary claims (Christ's resurrection) require extraordinary evidence apply to Jesus' resurrection? It would seem not. Since Jesus' resurrection is alleged to be a historical event, then it seems logical that normal historical evidence and normal historical examination of that evidence would be all we could offer. The resurrection is supposed to be an event of history and since it claims historical validity, then typical criteria for examining historical claims should be applied.

What criteria do they use to determine what is extraordinary evidence?

The reality is that there is no precise scientific method for determining the validity of historic events. There is a degree of subjectivity involved. Different people will claim different requirements for validating ancient phenomena based upon their presuppositions and the type of evidence involved. Also, since ancient events dealing with human history and claims cannot be observed or repeated, we must look at the evidence differently. This makes the application of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" somewhat subjective and invalid for determining ancient phenomena.

Is the criteria for extraordinary evidence reasonable?

The skeptic often requires "proof" that God exists, or "absolute proof" that Jesus rose from the dead. I have heard many atheists, for example, say that the only proof they would accept of Jesus' resurrection would be if it could be tested using the scientific method. Of course, we know that is an impossibility since the scientific method means observation, experimentation, and repetition and we can't apply that to an event that occurred 2000 years ago. Atheists know this and that is why they require it; therefore, they are being unreasonable. Nevertheless, when the Christian fails to produce a scientific method or scientific evidence, the atheist feels vindicated.

However, the requirement for absolute proof ignores the fact that there is a category of "sufficient evidence." In logic, there is deduction and induction. Deduction is drawing a conclusion based on facts. It is reasoning from the general to the specific. Induction is process of drawing general principles from specific facts. It is from the specific to the general. Often times, we use deductive and inductive reasoning to arrive at conclusions about events in history. In so doing, there is no requirement of "extraordinary evidence." The evidence is simply examined contextually; that is, it is examined according to the genre in which it fits. This is what I mean:

We do not apply observation, experimentation, and repetition to the subject of Napoleon's existence. The genre, history, does not fit that methodology. Yet, the skeptic will sometimes require that experimentation and repetition be applied to Jesus' resurrection, thereby, misapplying evidential and logical analysis.

Furthermore, we cannot ascertain all things with absolute certainty. We cannot, for example, prove that Alexander the Great (356-323 B.C.) ever lived by observing him. But, we have ancient writings from eyewitnesses concerning his existence. Skeptics readily believe in Alexander the Great without involving the scientific method and without requiring "extraordinary evidence" yet they will require it of Jesus' existence.

However, a skeptic might say that Alexander the Great never claimed to have risen from the dead and that normal evidence would be sufficient to determine his existence with reasonable probability. But, Alexander the Great, according to history, performed an extraordinary feat. By the age of 33 he had conquered the known world. That is indeed an extraordinary event in history. So, I ask, "Where is the extraordinary evidence to back that extraordinary claim?" Has any skeptic in Christ's resurrection equally applied the principle of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," to Alexander the Great's conquest of the known world? If not, then this brings us full circle to the issue concerning presuppositions. With an atheist, for example, the presupposition that God does not exist means that the extraordinary claim of Christ's resurrection requires extraordinary evidence but Alexander the Great's world conquest does not, yet both are extraordinary claims of history. I can't help but notice the inconsistency.

Conclusion

If it is true Alexander the Great conquered the known world by 33 years of age, no big deal. It won't have any effect on anyone and it won't change anything in anyone's life. But, if it is true about Jesus, then that is completely different. Jesus claimed to be divine and He had a message for people about heaven and hell and that salvation is only through Him. Such a claim requires extraordinary evidence, such as performing miracles and rising from the dead. The claims concerning Christ can have a profound effect on people and it can make them uncomfortable. Therefore, people will not want what Christ said to be true and will sometimes desperately try to hold onto their presuppositions; hence, the claim that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Nevertheless, when defending the Bible and dealing with the claim that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," address the following issues.

Will their presuppositions allow unbiased examination of the evidence?

What would qualify as extraordinary evidence?

What criteria is used to determine what is extraordinary evidence?

Are criteria for extraordinary evidence reasonable?

Hopefully, a healthy dialogue can be had by both parties.

______________

1. I am aware of the different atheistic positions, i.e., lack of belief, belief there is no God, etc., but for simplicity in the illustration I am using the "belief there is no God," atheistic position.
2007-09-14 19:33:41 UTC
The links provided by Ka are very helpful.

Here some videos you should watch.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuIQVfmBEp8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fau1yZvzt_I&mode=related&search=

http://youtube.com/watch?v=05Oe1UAEATE&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnsPyhJj9Mg

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5216975979627863972

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvDOtpsmxbc

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QQ-kvw1fYXs
2007-09-14 19:20:45 UTC
as an athiest

I believe he existed and that he was not the only prophet of his time
2007-09-14 19:22:09 UTC
Jesus was created by plagiarizing the texts of older more ancient religions. Just too much evidence available to think otherwise.
Sugar
2007-09-14 19:20:51 UTC
Did the sun rise? Then The " SON " existed. and still does. I love standing up for him Because he hung for me.Don't care about the thumb downs, There will be more stars in my crown.

so give them to me.
2007-09-14 19:20:27 UTC
the story of "Jesus" is thousands of years older than the holy bible that you, me, and every other sucker reads.



no, he doesn't exist. if he does, then he's a sick person for demanding worship.



Find "his qualities" within yourself, and everything else will be trivia.
2007-09-14 19:19:05 UTC
Probably, but it is a pretty weak case.
Lionheart ®
2007-09-14 19:19:10 UTC
Yes, he was a man. That's all.













The Fundi Trolls are out!
2007-09-14 19:24:46 UTC
This should answer your question.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm



here more links for you

http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/

http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/PaganHistory.html

http://altreligion.about.com/library/graphics/bl_savior11.htm

http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/jesus_similar.html

http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins2.htm

http://members.cox.net/deleyd/religion/solarmyth/christ2002.htm

http://www.litjournal.com/docs/fea_pagan3.html

http://culturalvision.net/html/merry_mithras.html

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen048.html

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa1.htm#rea

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

http://geocities.com/christprise/

http://mama.indstate.edu/users/nizrael/jesusrefutation.html

http://www.rationalresponders.com/a_silence_that_screams_no_contemporary_historical_accounts_for_jesus

http://www.harrington-sites.com/bondage.htm#b3

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/resurrection/lecture.html

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/virgin.html

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/ten_commandments.htm
Mistress Woo♥
2007-09-14 19:18:04 UTC
Yes, he was good friends with Santa Clause.



I might get a record thumbs down for this answer, nice.
¸.•*´`*•.¸ ℓανєη∂єr ¸.•*´`*•.¸
2007-09-14 19:19:36 UTC
Yes indeed he did exist. If you still don't believe then just wait til the day when he will return.



http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkmxPQetGUHQB1nNXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTFhNmlrbmpyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA01BUDAxNl85OARsA1dTMQ--/SIG=11jajnuvc/EXP=1189909199/**http%3a//www.jesuswillreturn.com/

.
2007-09-14 19:18:52 UTC
It doesn't matter. It's the meaning behind the whole myth that matters and if it gives you peace, don't question it.
BrotherMichael
2007-09-14 19:28:19 UTC
When were the gospels written and by whom?



Dating the gospels is very important. If it can be established that the gospels were written early, say before the year 70 A.D., then we would have good reason for believing that they were written by the disciples of Jesus Himself. If they were written by the disciples, then their reliability, authenticity, and accuracy are better substantiated. Also, if they were written early, this would mean that there would not have been enough time for myth to creep into the gospel accounts since it was the eyewitnesses to Christ's life that wrote them. Furthermore, those who were alive at the time of the events could have countered the gospel accounts and since we have no contradictory writings to the gospels, their early authorship as well as apostolic authorship becomes even more critical.



Destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. , Luke and Acts



None of the gospels mention the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 A.D. This is significant because Jesus had prophesied its destruction when He said, "As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down," (Luke 21:5, see also Matt. 24:1; Mark 13:1). This prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Romans sacked Jerusalem and burned the Temple. The gold in the Temple melted down between the stone walls and the Romans took the walls apart, stone by stone, to get the melted gold. Such an obvious fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy most likely would have been recorded by the gospel writers if they had been written after 70 A.D. Also, if the gospels were fabrications of mythical events then anything to bolster the Messianic claims -- such as the destruction of the temple as Jesus prophesied -- would surely have been included. But, it was not included suggesting that the gospels (at least Matthew, Mark, and Luke) were written before 70 A.D.

Similarly, this argument is important when we consider the dating of the book of Acts which was written after the gospel of Luke by Luke himself. Acts is a history of the Christian church right after Jesus' ascension. Acts also fails to mention the incredibly significant events of 70 A.D. which would have been extremely relevant and prophetically important and naturally would have garnered inclusion into Acts had it occurred before Acts was written. Remember, Acts is a book of the history of the early Christian church. The fact that the incredibly significant destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple is not recorded is very strong evidence that Acts was written before A.D. 70. If we add to this the fact that Acts does not include the accounts of "Nero's persecution of the Christians in A.D. 64 or the deaths of James (A.D. 62), Paul (A.D. 64), and Peter (A.D. 65), and we have further evidence that it was written very early and not long after Jesus' ascension into heaven.

If we look at Acts 1:1-2 it says, "The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach, until the day when He was taken up, after He had by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen." Most scholars affirm that Acts was written by Luke and that Theophilus (Grk. "lover of God") "may have been Luke’s patron who financed the writing of Luke and Acts." This means that the gospel of Luke was written before Acts.



* "At the earliest, Acts cannot have been written prior to the latest firm chronological marker recorded in the book—Festus’s appointment as procurator (24:27), which, on the basis of independent sources, appears to have occurred between A.D. 55 and 59."

* "It is increasingly admitted that the Logia [Q] was very early, before 50 A.D., and Mark likewise if Luke wrote the Acts while Paul was still alive. Luke's Gospel comes before the Acts (Acts 1:1). The date of Acts is still in dispute, but the early date (about A.D. 63) is gaining support constantly."



For clarity, Q is supposedly one of the source documents used by both Matthew and Luke in writing their gospels. If Q actually existed then that would push the first writings of Christ's words and deeds back even further lessening the available time for myth to creep in and adding to the validity and accuracy of the gospel accounts. If what is said of Acts is true, this would mean that Luke was written at least before A.D. 63 and possibly before 55 - 59 since Acts is the second in the series of writings by Luke. This means that the gospel of Luke was written within 30 years of Jesus' death.



Matthew

The early church unanimously held that the gospel of Matthew was the first written gospel and was penned by the apostle of the same name (Matt. 10:2). Lately, the priority of Matthew as the first written gospel has come under suspicion with Mark being considered by many to be the first written gospel. The debate is far from over.

The historian Papias mentions that the gospel of Matthew was originally in Aramaic or Hebrew and attributes the gospel to Matthew the apostle.



* "Irenaeus (ca. a.d. 180) continued Papias’s views about Matthew and Mark and added his belief that Luke, the follower of Paul, put down in a book the gospel preached by that apostle, and that John, the Beloved Disciple, published his Gospel while residing in Asia. By the time of Irenaeus, Acts was also linked with Luke, the companion of Paul."



This would mean that if Matthew did write in Aramaic originally, that he may have used Mark as a map, adding and clarifying certain events as he remembered them. But, this is not known for sure.

The earliest quotation of Matthew is found in Ignatius who died around 115 A.D. Therefore, Matthew was in circulation well before Ignatius came on the scene. The various dates most widely held as possible writing dates of the Gospel are between A.D. 40 - 140. But Ignatius died around 115 A.D. and he quoted Matthew. Therefore Matthew had to be written before he died. Nevertheless, it is generally believed that Matthew was written before A.D. 70 and as early as A.D. 50.



Mark



Mark was not an eyewitness to the events of Jesus' life. He was a disciple of Peter and undoubtedly it was Peter who informed Mark of the life of Christ and guided him in writing the Gospel known by his name. "Papias claimed that Mark, the Evangelist, who had never heard Christ, was the interpreter of Peter, and that he carefully gave an account of everything he remembered from the preaching of Peter." Generally, Mark is said to be the earliest gospel with an authorship of between A.D. 55 to A.D. 70.



Luke



Luke was not an eyewitness of the life of Christ. He was a companion of Paul who also was not an eyewitness of Christ's life. But, both had ample opportunity to meet the disciples who knew Christ and learn the facts not only from them, but from others in the area. Some might consider this damaging to the validity of the gospel, but quite the contrary. Luke was a gentile convert to Christianity who was interested in the facts. He obviously had interviewed the eyewitnesses and written the Gospel account as well as Acts.



* "The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach, 2 until the day when He was taken up, after He had by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen. 3 To these He also presented Himself alive, after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days, and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God," (Acts 1:1-3).



Notice how Luke speaks of "them," of those who had personal encounters with Christ. Luke is simply recounting the events from the disciples. Since Luke agrees with Matthew, Mark, and John and since there is no contradictory information coming from any of the disciples stating that Luke was inaccurate, and since Luke has proven to be a very accurate historian, we can conclude that Luke's account is very accurate.

As far as dating the gospel goes, Luke was written before the book of Acts and Acts does not mention "Nero's persecution of the Christians in A.D. 64 or the deaths of James (A.D. 62), Paul (A.D. 64), and Peter (A.D. 65)." Therefore, we can conclude that Luke was written before A.D. 62. "Luke's Gospel comes (Acts 1:1) before the Acts. The date of Acts is still in dispute, but the early date (about A.D. 63) is gaining support constantly."



John



The writer of the gospel of John was obviously an eyewitness of the events of Christ's life since he speaks from a perspective of having been there during many of the events of Jesus' ministry and displays a good knowledge of Israeli geography and customs.

The John Rylands papyrus fragment 52 of John's gospel dated in the year 125-135 contains portions of John 18, verses 31-33,37-38. This fragment was found in Egypt. It is the last of the gospels and appears to have been written in the 80's to 90's. Most scholars say it was written in the early 90's. This means that the time span between the original writing of John and its earliest copy (fragment) is approximately 35-45 years.

Of important note is the lack of mention of the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 A.D. But this is understandable since John was not focusing on historical events and was most probably written 20 or so years after the destruction of the Temple. John focused on the theological aspect of the person of Christ and listed His miracles and words that affirmed Christ's deity.



Though there is still some debate on the dates of when the gospels were written, they were most assuredly completed before the close of the first century and written by eyewitnesses or under the direction of eyewitnesses.
MyMichelle
2007-09-14 19:20:13 UTC
No he didn't.
Jenae, TV (tempter of the vile)
2007-09-14 19:19:28 UTC
you silly, you know damn well he didn't

:P


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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