Question:
How do I get rid of jehovah's witnesses?
r s
2007-04-25 00:50:48 UTC
Few days ago they came to my door and I somehow got suckered in to acepting on of their magazines, they said read and that they'd be back in a few days... I thought, 'ok, I'll be polite and take the mag', but I simply don't want to join them.

I don't want to be rude as they seemed like kind old ladies, but I know they won't leave without trying to sucker me in again.

Anyone know what I can say to them to get them to leave me?
42 answers:
Dakota Lynn Takes Gun
2007-04-25 01:23:06 UTC
When a Jehovah's Witness comes to your door, answer it!



But don't let them in your house!



2 John 1:10-11, "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."



I was just sitting here working on the site when the doorbell rang. I figured it was UPS and looked out the window. I saw a man in a suit so I figured it was some one with a "religious" affiliation. My hair's a mess but I went down anyway because I didn't want to miss the opportunity to talk to someone about the Lord Jesus.



When I opened the door there were two men in suits. An elderly man stood back on the steps while a younger man, not quite middle-aged, stood on my doorstep. The conversation between me and the younger man went something like this:



Me: Hello, may I help you?



Gentleman: Yes, we are passing out some information. (He shows me some "Awake" magazines)



Me: So you're Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm a Christian.



Gentleman: (He shows me an Awake magazine with dollar bills on the cover of it.) Then you know what the true riches are?



Me: All riches are found in Christ Jesus. You don't believe Jesus rose from the dead do you?



Gentleman: We believe He rose and was seen on the earth for a while and went to heaven.



Me: But you don't believe His human BODY rose from the dead, do you?



Gentleman: (He nervously looks at his watch.) Well, we can't discuss all that in 30 seconds, we'll have to sit down with you about that...You know we've been going from door to door for many years, don't you think that means God has anointed us?



Me: Longevity doesn't mean anything, the Catholic religion has been going for hundreds of years and it is not of God.



Gentleman: So you agree that the Catholic religion is not of God. I used to be Catholic.



Me: The Catholic religion is the biggest cult in the world. I know that you JW's are against it. The Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult too. I'm a Bible believer. I don't need the Watchtower or any other organization to tell me about the things of God. I KNOW that I have eternal life (the JW's don't know for sure) because I John says, "These things are WRITTEN that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life". The Bible has everything I need to know and I don't need anything extra. I hope that your eyes will be opened and you'll be saved.



* * * * * * * * * * *



Every Christian needs to open the door for these people and give them something to think about so that they can be saved. I feel very sorry for them because they are wasting their time and the wrath of God is on them, for they deny His Son.



On the outside they talk like they are Christians, but when you dig a little deeper you see that they deny the Bible--they deny the Godhead, deny Jesus is Almighty God, deny that Jesus physically rose from the dead, deny a literal Hell, etc. They actually believe that Michael, the archangel, became incarnate as Jesus. This little known heresy is often enough to convince potential victims of the Jehovah's Witnesses to flee. JW's are blasphemers that go around snatching up unlearned people and bringing them into their blasphemy.



Don't tell these people, "God bless you," because the Bible says that if you do that that you are partaker of their evil deeds. Just think about it, it's true. If you say, "God bless you" you are saying, "I hope the Lord helps you to spread more blasphemy and snare more souls." JW's and other cultists need to hear the truth and you, the Christian, can share it with them. Go to our section on cults to find out about JW's and other cultists. And make sure you study your Bible. That way, when you meet these folks, you can effectively give them the truth.
TRACY
2014-03-25 11:43:43 UTC
I have been having more than a few come to my door once a week. I tell them I don't have time to talk and usually they go away. I am christian. I was nice and now I have 6 of them come. Last week I was walking out the door and they were coming up my driveway, they said oh we can come back and I told them I wouldn't be back for awhile. I got in my car and they followed me got out and came and knocked on my friends door. I call that Stalking.....I am very angry. I was told by a friend that they are against blood transfusions. Well I have had 2 of them so I guess in their eyes I will be going to hell?. The next time they come I am going to tell them that I've had a blood transfusion.
LELAND
2007-04-25 00:59:18 UTC
EZ. Don't be a sucker. Politely reply that you aren't interested, thanx. They'll get over it, I'm sure.

Or, are you interested in the subject introduced? Then enjoy the info. Why be worried about "joining them"? If you find their conversation enlightening why not learn somehing. No one can ever make you join anything.
gehme
2007-04-25 00:58:50 UTC
Come to the door looking like you were asleep. When they ask "did we wake you?" say, yes, I work evenings.

If they're decent people, and they probably are, they won't bother you again.

In my case, it happened to be true, and I'm never bothered anymore.

If you feel this is lying, and that bothers you, be pragmatic. It's nicer to get rid of people this way than to tell them to get lost. On the other hand, I've never had a problem with just telling people who came to my door for one thing or another that I'm not interested and politely closing (not slamming) it. It's your life, your time, and if you don't want to be bothered, just say so.
Tufty Porcupine
2007-04-25 00:56:28 UTC
Oh yes, they can be quite devious. I used to just say 'Sorry, I'm not interested, bye!', but then one day it was a little boy (and presumably his father) and the boy did this speech about 'did I feel the world would ever be free from war?' - didn't feel I could shut the door in his face so I ended up with a magazine too. Then you get a return visit asking if you've read it yet.

When they come back (and believe me they will) just smile and politely explain you are not interested in discussing the matter and bid them farewell. Don't get dragged into any conversation! Good luck!
Polyhistor
2007-04-25 05:19:25 UTC
Don't tell them lies about why you don't want to see them, just tell them actually why and then ask them to leave and shut the door in their face. They will not be insulted, they have the door shut in their face about 100 times a day. However, once you indicate in anyway that y ou are open to them, they will be on your like jelly on peanut butter.
Alex
2007-04-25 03:59:06 UTC
If a person is not interested to hear the message that the Jehovah's Witnesses preach (the good news) he can politely say so. The JW will understand and leave. If you have a sign on your door in which you say that you don't want to receive them, they won't knock on your door.



"Wherever anyone does not take YOU in or listen to YOUR words, on going out of that house or that city shake the dust off YOUR feet." -- Mathew 10:14





For more information go to:

http://www.watchtower.org/library/jt/article_05.htm

http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/article_07.htm

http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1998/10/1/article_02.htm
Jerome C
2014-04-04 06:37:25 UTC
We will obey "No Trespassing" signs. Just be careful about such a decision. JWs are the only ones covering the whole Earth with teaching people the Bible. Jesus said as he was rising from the Earth, to be witnesses of me in all the Earth.
achtung_heiss
2007-04-25 06:01:19 UTC
This questioner might simply ask his local Jehovah's Witness ministers to 'keep me on your magazine route'.



Incidentally, Jehovah's Witnesses do not canvass neighborhoods looking for "joiners". Jehovah's Witnesses primarily go from door-to-door because Christ commanded it (see Matt 24:14;28:19,20).



Ideally, Witnesses hope to engage in personal discussions, but Witnesses are happy to provide literature to any appreciative householder regardless of his potential for "conversion". In fact, many householders simply enjoy reading quality bible-based literature, and recognize that doing so does not imply any obligation for the householder to make a donation, have a formal bible study, attend congregation meetings, or pursue baptism!



The Jehovah's Witness publications "The Watchtower" and "Awake!" enjoy circulations of about 27 million and 32 million per issue, which makes it clear that these are circulated well beyond the religion's own adherents (less than 7 million active Jehovah's Witnesses).

http://jw-media.org/people/statistics.htm



Learn more:

http://watchtower.org/e/jt/index.htm?article=article_04.htm

http://watchtower.org/e/pr/index.htm?article=article_03.htm

http://watchtower.org/e/rq/index.htm?article=article_15.htm

http://watchtower.org/e/lmn/index.htm?article=article_11.htm

http://watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm?article=article_09.htm
?
2013-12-01 18:01:38 UTC
Jess tell them " Thank you but I'm not interested, I have my own believes " then comely close your door
ShadowCat
2007-04-25 00:57:24 UTC
Holiday Decorations and flags of a patriotic nature ward them off! Get a copy of World Religions Made Easy by Barbour Press or Larsen's Book of Cults by B. Larsen. Challenge them on their theology. They have claimed and have given exact dates several times as to Christ's return and it did not happen. They also claim to be of the 144,000 in Revelation. Their numbers are over 2 million! The 144,000 is referring to the Jews that claim the Messiah in the last days.!
2007-04-25 01:35:27 UTC
Just follow what they teach their "door to door" evangelists.

If you send them away without taking their pamphlets or talking

with them, you are considered "a goat", unredeemable and

they won't return.

If you accept their pamphlets and/or talk with them then you are

considered a "lost sheep", redeemable and they will return. So,

make certain to turn them away if you want to be rid of them

completely.
realchurchhistorian
2007-04-25 01:10:23 UTC
1. Do not answer the door.

2. Open the door and curtly tell them to leave you alone.



Unwanted solicitations given by persistent people can only be stopped when you break out of your 'nice guy' mold and rebuff them in a bold manner.
2007-04-25 01:09:59 UTC
Offer to convert them to your religion. Offer them a good stiff drink. Don't answer the door. Tell them the Day of Judgement is nigh and you are busy packing.
2007-04-25 01:02:54 UTC
Just be polite to them and tell them that you have your own beliefs..or leave them a note on your door to tell them something like that. These people are doing what they are told they must do so I think we should be polite in saying that we have our own beliefs.
2007-04-25 00:58:13 UTC
Keep a 3 pronged fork, a pointed tail and a hairband with little red horns on it next to the door, when you see them approach put your 'devil outfit' on and answer the door. Hand them back their magazine, apologise politely and say you cant chat as you are about to sacrifice a virgin and are midway thru the incantation.. They wont be back
ringo711
2007-04-25 01:52:13 UTC
There is no need to be rude just ask them not to call, and to put you on their not to call list, if they question this tell them you will report them to their church, they will not call again
2007-04-25 00:57:22 UTC
Say that you fell down the stairs the other day and a bright light from Christianity God say.... mind your step.



So there is NO way you can believe in Jehova or whatever.



You could also tell them you hear that the guy out of D12 was raped when he was a kid by loads of joevies. There weird folks.



Actually true story here, my girlfriend and the whole of her family were massive into it. One of there closest friends died of cancer and the whole community turned the back on the family of the deceased. They all claim to be nicey nicey but really there not. There a right weird bunch. My girlfriend says to them to f-off when they come to the door at hers now lol.



Tell em your an athiest and cant wait to rot in the ground, its what youve been living your life for!
Rev R
2007-04-25 02:30:17 UTC
Just tell them you are not interested,



hand them back the magazine (they will usually ask for it any way),



And ask them to please not return



Say thank you



close the door.
womble
2007-04-25 01:41:21 UTC
i told some that i was a practising pagan and i would be celebrating the spring solest . that got rid of them
Doc Occam
2007-04-25 01:00:40 UTC
Make a pirate hat out of the magazine.



Answer door in pirate hat. Greet them merrily; offer them grog.



Remove hat; place hat on head of shorter JW.



Close door.



Threaten to keel-haul them if they don't leave.
Sylvia C
2007-04-25 00:57:40 UTC
Just tell them you have your own faith or do not believe in god and thank them for calling but you are not interested. The can be a pest but they are mostly kindly people.
Renee H
2007-04-25 01:13:05 UTC
Just let them hand their little book to you.

And then say can I ask you this do you believe Hell I do so you

want this back . and it works.
2007-04-25 00:54:11 UTC
this worked for me;

ask them...If you believe there is no hell ,and only 144000 will ever get into heaven,

what sense dose it make?

compared to the amount of people in the world now in past and to come, and only 14400 gets in, you have no chance.

so live how you want no heaven to gain or hell to shun that religion makes no sense.

they never returned.
allenrubink
2007-04-25 00:57:19 UTC
Tell them you've recently become a satanist.

Gets them away faster a fat kid running away from his carrots.



If they hesitate when you decline at their beliefs, you could revert to these other options to tell them:

You're a Mormon.

You're openly gay

You love gore.



You could show up with a bloody nose and they'll freak out.
2007-04-25 00:55:06 UTC
Just tell you that you are not interested politely.



It usually work's on my friends.
New ♥ System ♥ Lady
2007-04-25 01:08:40 UTC
Suckered in?

Can't you say no?

Did they ask you to join them?

If you enjoy the magazines, then just read them.

If you don't then don't have them.



Noah had the same problem when people weren't interested in what he had to say but he got over it.

Matthew 24:36-39



You'll have to pardon them, they're just trying to save your life that's all.
2007-04-25 00:53:24 UTC
speaking to them involves opening the door when they arrive.... your choice
Prophet Of Truth
2007-04-25 00:57:41 UTC
Easy! Invite them into intelligent debate. They'll soon disappear down the driveway as religion people can't handle this. (done it myself)
2007-04-25 00:54:43 UTC
my dad used to tell them that he was a commited roman catholic (he was) they always went away very quickly

you could tell them that you are devoted to your own religeon
2007-04-25 00:53:46 UTC
Polite but firm. That's always a good way with conservative people.



Edit: or....Do what Divine said!
Shirley T
2007-04-25 01:03:27 UTC
I smile and say, "I have my religion" and I thank them and gently close the door.
2007-04-25 04:47:31 UTC
tell them about the boss and all the people he killed in 1857 in the masacar
Kat
2007-04-25 00:54:01 UTC
Since they ignored my "No Soliciting" sign (I'm guessing they just can't read English), I answered the door with my HUGE chocolate lab at my side. They haven't come back since.



(He really doesn't like strangers.)
2007-04-25 07:01:39 UTC
Tell them that you are Jewish and that you can prove it

"Can I show you my circumcision scars?"
phe
2007-04-25 01:05:34 UTC
Reveal to them that god is imaginary. Maybe they'll convert!
2007-04-25 00:53:07 UTC
Hand back the magazine.

Say "it's not for me".

Smile.

Close the door.



There you go.
Keselyű
2007-04-25 01:02:18 UTC
Talk about sun worship and offer them beer.
Tobeornottobe
2007-04-25 00:53:54 UTC
Tell them you are gay and want to have an orgy with them.I tried that and never saw them again.
2007-04-25 00:53:38 UTC
Say:



'Sorry, i have friends around, i can't talk right now'



Or...brandish a big stick.
*~Ariel Brigalow Moondust~*
2007-04-25 01:09:19 UTC
This is a very funny story that was featured in the latest Spellcraft magazine....So tell them you are a Pagan and use the bible against them as done here!

We Are the Other People

Oberon (Otter) Zell



"Ding-dong!" goes the doorbell. Is it Avon calling? Or perhaps Ed McMahon with my three million dollars? No, it's Yahweh's Witlesses again, just wanting to have a nice little chat about the Bible... Boy, did they ever come to the wrong house! So we invite them in: "Enter freely and of your own will..." (Hey, it's Sunday morning, nothing much going on, why not have a little entertainment?) Diane and I amuse ourselves watching their expressions as they check out the living room: great horned owl on the back of my chair; ceremonial masks and medicine skulls of dragons and unicorns on the wall; crystals, wands, staffs, swords; lots of Goddess figures and several altars; boa constrictors draped in amorous embrace over the elkhorn; white doves sitting in the hanging planters; cats and weasels underfoot; iron dragon snorting steam atop the wood stove; posters and paintings of wizards and dinosaurs and witchy women, some proudly naked; sculptures of mythological beasties and lots more dinosaurs; warp six on the star-filled viewscreen of my computer; a five-foot model of the USS Enterprise and the skeleton of a plesiosaur hanging from the ceiling; very, very many books, most of them dealing with obviously weird subjects... To say nothing of the great horned owl perched on the back of my chair and the Unicorn grazing in the front yard. You know; early Addams Family decor. And then, of course, it being late in the morning, you can expect Morning Glory to come wandering out naked, looking for her wake-up cup of tea. Morning Glory naked is a truly impressive sight, and the Witlesses look as if she'd set titties on stun as they stand immobilized, hands clasped over their genitals.



With the stage set and all the actors in place, the show is ready to begin. Their mission, of course, is to save our heathen souls by turning us on to "The Word of the Lord"- their Bible. I guess they figger some of us just haven't heard about it yet, and we're all eagerly awaiting their joyous tidings of personal salvation through giving our rational faculties to Jesus. Every time they come around, I look forward to trying out a new riposte. Sure, it may be cruel and sadistic of me, but hey, I didn't call them up and ask them to come over; they entered at their own risk! This time should be pretty good. After letting them run off their basic rap while lovely Morning Glory serves us all hot herb tea, I innocently remark: "But none of that applies to us. We have no need for salvation because we don't have original sin. We are the Other People."



"Hunh? What?" they reply eloquently. It's clear they've never heard this one before. "



Right," I say. "It's all in your Bible." And I proceed to tell them the story, using their own book for reference: (Genesis 1:26) The [Elohim] said, "Let us make humanity in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild beasts and all the reptiles that crawl upon the earth." Elohim is a plural word, including male and female, and should properly be translated "Gods" or "Pantheon." (1: 27) The Gods created humanity in the image of themselves, In the image of the Gods they created them, Male and female they created them. (1:28) The Gods blessed them, saying to them, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and conquer it. Be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven and all living animals on the earth."



Now clearly, here we are talking about the original creation of the human species: male and female. All the animals, plants, etc. have all been created in previous verses. This is before the Garden of Eden, and Yahweh is not mentioned as the creator of these people.



The next chapter talks about how Yahweh, an individual member of the Pantheon, goes about assembling his own special little botanical and zoological Garden in Eden, and making his own little man to inhabit it: (Gen 2:7) Yahweh God fashioned a man of dust from the soil. Then he breathed into his nostrils a breath of life, and thus the man became a living being. (2:8) Yahweh God planted a garden in Eden which is in the east, and there he put the man he had fashioned. (2:9) Yahweh God caused to spring up from the soil every kind of tree, enticing to look at and good to eat, with the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the middle of the garden. (2:15) Yahweh God took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden to cultivate and take care of it. Now this next is crucial: note Yahweh's precise words: (2:16) Then Yahweh God gave the man this admonition, "You may eat indeed of all the trees in the garden. (2:17) Nevertheless of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you are not to eat, for on the day you eat of it you shall most surely die." Fateful words, those. We will refer back to this admonition later.



Then Yahweh decides to make a woman to go with the man. Now, don't forget that the Pantheon had earlier created a whole population of people, "male and female," who are presumably doing just fine somewhere "outside the gates of Eden." But this set-up in Eden is Yahweh's own little experiment, and will unfold to its own separate destiny. (2:21) So Yahweh God made the man fall into a deep sleep. And while he slept, he took one of his ribs and enclosed it in flesh. (2:22) Yahweh God built the rib he had taken from the man into a woman, and brought her to the man. Right. Man gives birth to woman. Sure he does. But that's the way the story is told here. (2:25) Now both of them were naked, the man and his wife, but they felt no shame in front of each other. Well, of course not! Why should they? But take careful note of those words, as they also will prove to be significant...



Now this next part is where it starts to get interesting. Enter the Serpent: (Gen. 3:1) The serpent was the most subtle of all the wild beasts that Yahweh God had made. It asked the woman, "Did God really say you were not to eat from any of the trees in the garden?" (3:2) The woman answered the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees in the garden. (3:3) "But of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden God said, 'You must not eat it, nor touch it, under pain of death." (3:4) Then the serpent said to the woman, "No! You will not die! (3:5) "God knows in fact that on the day you eat it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, knowing good and evil." What a remarkable statement! "Your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, knowing good and evil." The Serpent directly contradicts Yahweh. Obviously, one of them has to be lying. Which one, do you suppose? And, if the serpent speaks true, wouldn't you wish to eat of the magic fruit? Wouldn't it be a good thing, to become "like gods, knowing good and evil"? Or is it preferable to remain in ignorance?



(Gen. 3:6) The woman saw that the tree was good to eat and pleasing to the eye, and that it was desirable for the knowledge that it could give. So she took some of its fruit and ate it. She gave some also to her husband who was with her, and he ate it. (3:7) Then the eyes of both of them were opened and they realized that they were naked. So they sewed fig leaves together to make themselves loincloths. The author makes an interesting assumption here: that if you realize you are naked you will automatically want to cover yourself. Further implications will unfold shortly...



(Gen. 3:8) The man and his wife heard the sound of Yahweh God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from Yahweh God among the trees of the garden. (3:9) But Yahweh God called to the man. "Where are you?" he asked. (3:10) "I heard the sound of you in the garden," he replied. "I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid." (3:11) "Who told you that you were naked?" he asked. "Have you been eating of the tree I forbade you to eat?"



And so the sign of the Fall becomes modesty. Take note of this. The descendants of Adam and Eve will be distinguished throughout history from virtually all other peoples by their obsessive modesty taboos, wherein they will feel ashamed of being naked. It follows that those who feel no shame in being naked are, by definition, not carriers of this spiritual disease of original sin!



(Gen. 3:12) The man replied, "It was the woman you put with me; she gave me the fruit, and I ate it." Right. Blame the woman. What a turkey! (3:13) Then Yahweh God asked the woman, "What is this you have done?" The woman replied, "The serpent tempted me and I ate." So of course she blames the serpent. But just what did the serpent do that was so evil? Why, he called Yahweh a liar! Was he wrong? Let's see... (3:21) Yahweh God made clothes out of skins for the man and his wife, and they put them on. Out of skins? This means that Yahweh had to kill some innocent animals to pander to Adam and Eve's new obsession with modesty!



And now we come to the crux of the Fall. Yahweh had said back there in chapter (2:17), regarding the fruit of the tree of knowledge, that "on the day you eat of it you shall most surely die." The Serpent, on the other hand, had contradicted Yahweh in chapter (3:4-5): "No! You will not die! God knows in fact that on the day you eat it your eyes will be opened and you will be like gods, knowing good and evil." So what actually happened? Who lied and who told the truth about this remarkable fruit? The answer is given in the next verse: (3:22) Then Yahweh God said, "See, the man has become like one of us, with his knowledge of good and evil. He must not be allowed to stretch his hand out next and pick from the tree of life also, and eat some and live forever."



Get that? Yahweh himself admits that he had lied! In fact, and in Yahweh's own words, the Serpent spoke the absolute truth! And moreover, Yahweh tells the rest of the Pantheon that he intends to evict Adam (and presumably Eve as well) to keep them from gaining immortality to go with their newly-acquired divine knowledge. To prevent them, in other words, from truly becoming gods! So who, in this story, comes off as a benefactor of humanity, and who comes off as a tyrant? THE SERPENT NEVER LIED!



This story, to digress slightly, bears a remarkable resemblance to a contemporary tale from ancient Greece. In that version, the Serpent (later identified as Lucifer, the Light-Bearer) may be equated with the heroic titan Prometheus, who championed humanity against the tyranny of Zeus, who wished for people to be mere slaves of the gods. Prometheus, whose name means "forethought," gave people wisdom, intelligence, and fire stolen from Olympus. Moreover, he ordained the portions of animal sacrifice so that humans got the best parts (the meat and hides) while the portion that was burned to the gods was the bones and fat. In punishment for this defiance of his divine authority, Zeus condemned Prometheus to a terrible punishment for an immortal: to be chained to a mountain in the Caucasus, where Zeus' gryphon/eagle (actually a Lammergeir) would devour his liver each day. It would grow back each night. Zeus promised to relent if Prometheus would reveal his great secret knowledge: Who would succeed Zeus as supreme god? Prometheus refused to tell, but history has revealed the answer... The interesting thing about all this is that the Greeks properly regarded Prometheus as a noble hero in his defiance of unjust tyranny. One may wonder why the Serpent is not so well regarded. On the contrary, snakes are loathed throughout Christiandom. (3:23) So Yahweh God expelled him from the garden of Eden, to till the soil from which he had been taken. (3:24) He banished the man, and in front of the garden of Eden he posted the cherubs, and the flame of a flashing sword, to guard the way to the tree of life.



So that's it for the Fall. But the story of Adam and Eve doesn't end there. (Gen 4:1) The man had intercourse with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain... (4:2) She gave birth to a second child, Abel, the brother of Cain. Now Abel became a shepherd and kept flocks, while Cain tilled the soil. (4:3) Time passed and Cain brought some of the produce of the soil as an offering for Yahweh, (4:4) while Abel, for his part, brought the first-born of his flock and some of their fat as well. Yahweh looked with favor on Abel and his offering. But he did not look with favor on Cain and his offering, and Cain was very angry and downcast. Well, why shouldn't he be? Both brothers had brought forth their first fruits as offerings, but Yahweh rejected the vegetables and only accepted the blood sacrifice. This was to set a gruesome precedent: (4:8) Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let us go out;" and while they were in the open country, Cain set on his brother Abel and killed him.



Accursed and marked for fratricide, (4:16) Cain left the presence of Yahweh and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. We can assume that the phrase "left the presence of Yahweh" implies that Yahweh is a local deity, and not omnipresent. Now Eden, according to (Gen. 2:14-15), was situated at the source of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, apparently right where Lake Van is now, in Turkey. "East of Eden," therefore, would probably be along the shores of the Caspian Sea, right in the Indo-European heartland. Cain settled in there, among the people of Nod, and married one of the women of that country. Here, for the first time, is specifically mentioned the "other people" who are not of the lineage of Adam and Eve. i.e: the Pagans.



So let's look at this story from another viewpoint: There we were, around six thousand years ago, living in our little farming communities around the Caspian Sea, in the land of Nod, when this dude with a terrible scar comes stumbling in out of the sunset. He tells us this bizarre story, about how his mother and father had been created by some god named Jahweh, and put in charge of a beautiful garden somewhere out west, and how they had gotten thrown out for disobedience after eating some of the landlord's forbidden magic fruit of enlightenment. He tells us of murdering his brother, as the god of his parents would only accept blood sacrifice, and of receiving that scar as a mark so that all would know him as a fratricide.



The poor guy is really a mess psychologically, obsessed with guilt. He is also obsessively modest, insisting on wearing clothes even in the hottest summer, and he has a hard time with our penchant for skinny-dipping in the warm inland sea. He seems to believe that he is tainted by the "sin" of his parent's disobedience; that it is in his blood, somehow, and will continue to contaminate his children and his children's children.



One of our healing women takes pity on the poor sucker, and marries him... (4:17) Cain had intercourse with his wife, and she conceived and gave birth to Enoch. He became the builder of a town, and he gave the town the name of his son Enoch.



With both of their first sons not turning out very well, Adam and Eve decided to try again: (4:25) Adam had intercourse with his wife, and she gave birth to a son whom she named Seth... (4:26) A son was also born to Seth, and he named him Enosh. This man was the first to invoke the name of Yahweh. Now it doesn't mention here where Seth's wife came from. Another woman from Nod, possibly, or maybe someone from another neolithic community downstream in the Tigris-Euphrates valley. But her folks also, cannot be of the lineage of Adam and Eve, and must also be counted among "the other people."



But whatever happened to Adam? After all, way back there in chapter Gen. 2:17, warning Adam about the magic fruit of knowledge, Jahweh had told him that "on the day you eat of it you shall most surely die." So, when did Adam die? (Gen. 5:4) Adam lived for eight hundred years after the birth of Seth and he became the father of sons and daughters. (5:5) In all, Adam lived for nine hundred and thirty years; then he died. Hey, that's pretty good! Nine hundred and some odd years isn't bad for a man who's been told he's gonna die the next day!



Well, the story goes on, and maybe next time the Witlesses come to visit I'll tell more of it. But suffice it to say that those of us who are not of Semitic descent (i.e., not of the lineage of Adam and Eve) cannot share in the Original Sin that comes with that lineage. Being that the Bible is the story of that lineage, of Adam and Eve's descendants and their special relationship with their particular god, Yahweh, it follows that this is not the story of the rest of us. We may have been Cain's wife's people, or Seth's wife's people, or some other people over the hill and far away, but whichever people the rest of us are, as far as the Bible is concerned, we are the Other People, and so we are continually referred to throughout.



Later books of the Bible are filled with admonitions to the followers of Jahweh to "learn not the ways of the Pagans..." (Jer 10:2) with detailed descriptions of exactly what it is we do, such as erect standing stones and sacred poles, worship in sacred groves and practice divination and magic. And worship the sun, moon, stars and the "Queen of Heaven." "You must not behave as they do in Egypt where once you lived; you must not behave as they do in Canaan where I am taking you. You must not follow their laws." (Lev 18:3) For Yahweh, as he so clearly emphasizes, is not the god of the Pagans. We have our own lineage and our own heritage, and our tale is not told in the Bible. We were not "made" like clay figurines by a male deity out of "dust from the soil." We were born of our Mother the Earth, and have evolved over aeons in Her nurturing embrace. All of us, in our many and diverse tribes, have creation myths and legends of our origins and history; some of these tales may even be actually true.



Like the descendants of Adam and Eve, many of us also have stories of great floods, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and other cataclysms that wiped out whole communities of our people, wherein "I alone survived to tell the tale." Nearly all of our ancestral tribes (and especially those of us who today are reclaiming our own Pagan heritage) lack that peculiar obsessive body modesty that seems to be a hallmark of the original sin alluded to in the story of the Fall. We can be naked and unashamed! Why, our Goddess even tells us, "as a sign that you are truly free, you shall be naked in your rites." Not being born into sin, we have no need of salvation, and no need of a Messiah to redeem our sinful souls.



Neither heaven nor hell is our destination in the afterlife; we have our own various arrangements with our own various deities. The Bible is not our story; we have our own stories to tell, and they are many and diverse. In a long life, you may get to hear many of them... May you live long and prosper!
karma
2007-04-25 00:56:23 UTC
why don't you just listen to what they have to say? you never know....


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
Loading...