When we're told there is One God and One Mediator between God and man, where does Mary and confessional fit it?

2010-07-20 05:46:10 UTC

Do you honestly think the reason for the curtain is to be sure that the confessor remains anonymous?

It's so the confessor can't see what the priest is doing while they tell what they have been doing.

The first thing that someone should be considering is whether the idea of sin is actually real.

If God is supposed to be perfect how could She have made anything or anyone that wasn't perfect.

Think about it. The idea of sin assumes certain things about God that seem highly unlikely.

First it assumes a God who is too incompetent to organize a simple educational field excursion and figure out a way to get all of the students home safely.

How likely is this that God would not be smart enough to come up with a plan for our salvation that is going to work 100 percent of the time?

It also assumes that God must have created us imperfect if we are sinners.

One might assume that God would be able to create someone perfect each and every time if he chose to. Assuming God is capable of this, then it follows logically that we must be perfect creations if we are actually creations of this perfect God.

Unless of course you are saying that God chose to create us imperfect.

If God created us imperfect then anything that may go wrong is Gods fault, not ours. This seems a bit illogical at best so I think that we need to assume that What God creates would have to be perfect.

If this is the case and Gods creations are perfect, then nothing that we can do could change what God created perfect and make it imperfect unless we think that we are more powerful than God is.

How likely is it that we the creation could be more powerful than the creator. I personally find this idea somewhat amusing, and a bit absurd.

Religion tells us that God is perfect. If this is true then it could hardly be logically for Gods creations to be considered to be anything less than perfect.

If this is the case and we are perfect creations of a perfect God then Nothing that we can ever do could possibly change this perfection that God willed, unless we were so powerful that our choices could override and change the will of God.

How likely is that????

Think about it.

Love and blessings

Don

2010-07-20 05:59:20 UTC

This question answers another one I saw a few days ago... "Why do christians in here say they hate religion?"

This is a classic example, I don't hate the people that are of other faiths or unbelievers, but the doctrines can be down right evil sometimes.

Religion = Mans twisted take on God

A real christian = Submitted to the Word of God, and has a earthly authority that they are submitted to. A system of checks and balances so that no one interpretation of the word can be used incorrectly. Many bear wittiness, many agree, but the foundation MUST come from the bible not what So and So said. If we're right or wrong we'reconsistentt, by the book so to speak.

As for the belief that Saints help us see God or Jesus better, Jesus said He would send The Helper, The Holy Spirit, that would be the Spirit of God, does it then make sense that a passed Saint, even the greatest of them, could do a better job that God's Holy Spirit? Why would Jesus ask the Father and why would the Father send His Spirit, if He already had Saints that could do the job better???

agape

2010-07-20 05:55:06 UTC

Thats the point ....they don't fit in (Mary/confessional) that was something man decided to come up with...there is no where in the bible that supports this TRADITION.....and did you notice it says there is how many Gods and how many mediators? 2 Corinthians 4:4 is the cause of a lot of religous practices that are not supported by the bible...it is a serious matter the way we worship...keep seeking truth and you will be set free...John 17:3....just a side point....2 Chronicles 16:9...1 Peter 3:12...based on these two scriptures alone why would there ever be a need for confession to a man...in that manner when God see everything and we pray to Him for forgiveness through his son Jesus Christ.....and there was no greater man than Jesus and He never acquired an elevated position...even when they wanted to make him king he retreated.......

Misty

2010-07-20 09:29:02 UTC

Why does it need to "fit in" to that concept? Jesus is the mediator between man and God. This statement has nothing to do with Mary or the confessional, nor do these things undermine Christ's mediatorship.

Protestants are always so "either/or" in their thinking. EITHER Christ is the only mediator OR if you pray to Mary, then she is. Who decides this either/or stuff?

The Church has always taught that Christ is the one mediator, but this doesn't mean we can't ask others for intercession. I'm sure you've asked a friend or family member to pray for you. When you ask them to pray for you are they then taking the mediatorship from Christ? Of course not. Do you pray for other people, for their needs etc? If you do, is this because you don't feel Christ is quite up to the task? We ask Mary to pray for us and with us, just as we can ask any other Christian who has died in Christ, or who still lives in the flesh with us.

As for confession to a priest, Jesus Christ instituted this, so obviously it does not infringe on his mediation with God for us. Jesus gave the Apostles his own authority (as the Father has sent me so I send you), he gave them the Holy Spirit, and then said "whose sins you forgiven are and those who sins you retain are retained." John 20:23. The Apostles could not forgive and retain sins unless they heard them first.

Jesus is not in competition with his Church or with his Mother. All these things are as they are for the glory of God and point us towards salvation. That is the central, united thread we must realize.

Christ as the one mediator can choose, and did choose, do delegate others to do his work on earth.

cinu

2010-07-20 09:18:56 UTC

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.

I John

1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Matthew

6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....

1 Timothy

2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous

tigerlilly

2010-07-20 06:00:39 UTC

It doesn't fit. If you ( general you ) pray or confess to another human being then you have no faith in God. He sent His only-begotten son to make it possible for us imperfect sinners to approach Him. Think about it. Another human just like us can approach God ( through Jesus) then why cant we personally do it? If you hurt your best friends feelings would you send someone else to apologize for you especially if you wanted to remain friends?

*** rs p. 80 - p. 81 Confession ***

Is the rite of reconciliation, including auricular confession (personal confession into the ear of a priest), as taught by the Catholic Church Scriptural?

The manner in which the priest is addressed

The traditional formula, still often used, is: “Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. It has been [length of time] since my last Confession.”—U.S. Catholic magazine, October 1982, p. 6.

Matt. 23:1, 9, JB: “Jesus said, . . . ‘You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.’”

Sins that can be forgiven

“The Church has always taught that every sin, no matter how serious, can be forgiven.”—The Catholic Encyclopedia (bearing the nihil obstat and the imprimatur), R. C. Broderick (Nashville, Tenn.; 1976), p. 554.

Heb. 10:26, JB: “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them.”

Mark 3:29, JB: “Let anyone blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and he will never have forgiveness: he is guilty of an eternal sin.”

How penance is to be shown

Frequently the confessor directs that the penitent say a specified number of “Our Fathers” and “Hail Marys.”

Matt. 6:7, JB: “In your prayers do not babble [that is, utter in a meaninglessly repetitious manner] as the pagans do, for they think that by using many words they will make themselves heard.”

Matt. 6:9-12, JB: “You should pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, . . . forgive us our debts.’” (Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to pray to or through Mary. See Philippians 4:6, also pages 258, 259, under “Mary.”)

Rom. 12:9, JB: “Do not let your love be a pretence, but sincerely prefer good to evil.”

heartless_hank

2010-07-20 05:51:30 UTC

After being saved, there is still a need to practice the faith with communion, confession and any other practice your church thinks is likely to help you live your faith.

In order to have Jesus be born without original sin, Mary had to be elevated to special among all women so she is held in reverence.

Doesn't the idea that "the Man Christ Jesus" is the mediator to Jesus who is God sound odd to you? Sounds like a ventriloquist act to me; God speaking as Jesus tells God you're OK.

2010-07-20 07:16:31 UTC

Sorry to hear about your ignorance and hate when you lack fundamental understanding of the Catholic faith. You have been told before that we do not pray to Mary. Saints are role models who help us to become closer to Christ. "Born agains" seem to believe everything their minister tells them. In the Catholic church priests do not talk about other religions or put them down. Maybe you should "think" for yourself and read.

JAY PROG stay in school - you sound like a 10 year old - Mafia?

imacatholic2

2010-07-23 21:41:22 UTC

Jesus is our one and only mediator. Intercession is different.

"Teach us how to pray," the disciples said to Jesus. (Luke 11, 1)

Jesus answered by teaching them the prayer we call the Our Father or The Lord's Prayer.

Our Father, who art in heaven,

hallowed be thy name.

Thy Kingdom come,

thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Give US this day OUR daily bread.

Forgive US OUR trespasses,

as WE forgive those who trespass against US.

And lead US not into temptation,

but deliver US from evil.

The entire second part of the Lord's prayer is intercessory prayer where we pray for ourselves and others (us, we, and our).

Christians praying for each other and the world is intercessory prayer and is accepted and practiced by all Christan denominations (that I know about).

Before Jesus Christ died for our sins and opened the gates of heaven there were no saints in heaven. Therefore there are no Old Testament writings that would mention them.

Very few of the new Christians died before most of the New Testament was written. Therefore there is little in the Bible about asking saints to pray for us.

However the last book of the Bible does talk about the saints in heaven praying.

Revelation 5:8: Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

Revelation 8:3-4: He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.

The Holy Spirit guided the early Church in many things not explained in the Bible including how does the Body of Christ (believers) living on Earth relate to the Body of Christ (saints) living in heaven. We are still one Body.

Catholics share the belief in the Communion of Saints with many other Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopal, and Methodist Churches.

The Communion of Saints is the belief where all saints are intimately related in the Body of Christ, a family. When you die and go to heaven, you do not leave this family.

Everyone in heaven or on their way to heaven are saints, you, me, my deceased grandmother, Mary the mother of Jesus, Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II.

As part of this family, you may ask your family and friends living here on earth to pray for you. Or, you may also ask the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Andrew, or your deceased grandmother living in heaven to pray for you.

Prayer to saints in heaven is simple communication, not worship.

Asking others to pray for you whether your loved ones on Earth or your loved ones in heaven is always optional.

For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 946 and following: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p5.shtml#946

With love in Christ.

Miss Mouse

2010-07-20 05:50:04 UTC

>>For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.<<

And what is "this"? None other than "supplications, prayers, INTERCESSIONS, and thanksgivings"!

"First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:1-4)

Paul can tell the difference between intercession and mediation; why can't you?

2010-07-20 09:36:45 UTC

There is only 1 mediator between man and God and that is Jesus, but an intercessor is different.

Here these should help. It's pretty much all scripture:

~~~~Intercession:

1Timothy 2:1 I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men:

The Saints are Alive.

Mark 12:27

He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You therefore do greatly err.

The bible tells us the Prayer of a Righteous person does much. Who more Righteous than the Mother of God and the Saints?

Proverbs 15:29

The Lord is far from the wicked: and he will hear the prayers of the just.

James 5:16

Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.

Revelations 8:4 And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.

~~~~Confession, Here's how Jesus set it up:

~~~~Jesus tells us God gave "Men" (plural) the power to forgive sins on earth.

Matthew 9:6 But that you may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then said he to the man sick of palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go into thy house. 7 And he arose, and went into his house. 8 And the multitude seeing it, feared, and glorified God that gave such power to men.

~~~~Jesus gave us the "Ministry" of Reconciliation.

2Corinthians 5:17 If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away, behold all things are made new. 18 But all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Christ; and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation. 19 For God indeed was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not imputing to them their sins; and he hath placed in us the word of reconciliation.

~~~~The Apostles are Christ's ambassadors (and the Priests by Proxy):

2Corinthians 5:20 For Christ therefore we are ambassadors, God as it were exhorting by us. For Christ, we beseech you, be reconciled to God.

~~~~St. James tells us to confess to one another:

James 5:16

Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.

~~~~St. James tells us that when one is sick call the Priests to pray over him, anoint him and because of this the lord forgives his sins:

James 5:14

Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should

pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord,

15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.

~~~~The Old Testament tells us that an atonement is made by the Priest to the Lord and his sins will be forgiven:

Leviticus 6:7 and the priest shall make atonement for him before the LORD, and he will be forgiven for any one of the things which he may have done to incur guilt."

Leviticus 16:30 For on that day [the priest] shall make atonement for you, to cleanse you, [that] you may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.

Numbers 15:28 And the priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who commits an error, when he sins unwittingly, to make atonement for him; and he shall be forgiven.

~~~~Jesus gave the Apostles the Authority as well. Why would he give them this authority if they were never to use it?

John 20:23 "If you forgive the sins of any, {their sins} have been forgiven them; if you retain the {sins} of any, they have been retained."

~~~~St. Paul even forgave sins:

2Corinthians 2:10 But one whom you forgive anything, I {forgive} also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, {I did it} for your sakes in the presence of Christ,

Peace be with you

<<>>

Kristin the Rediculous

2010-07-20 05:55:40 UTC

When Christ told Peter, "what you bind on earth is bound in heaven, and what you loose on earth is loosened in heaven", what do you suppose He meant? Apostolic succession and the sacrament of confession comes directly from Christ. That's where it fits in.

Mary is not worshipped in the Catholic church, nor is any other saint. They are loved and respected as role models who lived in Christ. Their function is not to act as Christ/mediator but to help us become closer to Him. It's the difference between your eyes and your glasses - one you see with, one helps you see.

If you don't understand these things you lack fundamental understanding of the Catholic faith. Your words want to propagate hate. There's nothing in them about the glory of God, just petty politics about who's right and wrong. I don't usually bother with questions that are poorly informed and biased, but with yours I just had to tell it like it is.

imrod

2010-07-20 05:54:03 UTC

Protestant here. James 5 does tell us that it is important to confess our sins to one another. That doesn't mean it has to be to a priest. Certainly it is usually wise to do so privately with someone you can trust and that is confidential.

You must remember that for Roman Catholics the teaching of the church is considered as authoritative as the Bible so they don't need a Scripture reference.

2010-07-20 05:49:50 UTC

In fact, it does seem strongly that Mary didn't know who Jesus was

either when she and the family came to see Jesus. We note

that Jesus did not stop His talk and say 'Ah, it's My Mother,

and nothing can be more important'. Jesus was the last of the

line of Melchizedek, with no father or mother, so Mary was

a surrogate...this does not demean or denigrade her but

she was a sinful human being who came to the Lord,

and was saved like all of us who do that. We'd find it

was actually part of pagan worship that got incorporated

into Christianity. But it will infuriate people. Hopefully,

some will see this, though.

?

2010-07-20 10:18:28 UTC

Who said that Blessed Mary is a mediator between God the Father and man? I think you just made that one up buddy boy.

I guess you don't believe the Apostles Creed Either? You know "I believe in One God, the Father Almighty... the communion of saints...and life everlasting. Amen.

I guess you don't follow the Bible or don't understand it very well either. In John 20, 22, 23, we read: "Jesus breathed on the apostles and said: Receive ye the Holy Ghost; whose sins ye shall forgive, they are forgiven them, and whose sins ye shall retain, they are retained." And again Jesus said to his apostles : "To me is given all power in heaven and on earth, as my Father hath sent me, so I also send you." John 20, 21. Jesus was sent to forgive sins, and he sent the apostles to forgive sins.

The Bible says that it is allowed and very useful to ask the prayers of people on earth and the prayers of the angels in heaven ; from this we conclude that it is also allowed to ask the prayers of the saints who reign with Christ in heaven and who are still our friends. St. Paul Rom. 15, 30, said: "I beseech you, therefore, brethren, through our Lord Jesus Christ, | and by the charity of the Holy Ghost, that you help me in your prayers for me to God." The same he said in his letter to the Ephes. 6, 18, and Tess. 5, 25.

In Zach. 1, 12, we read that an angel prayed for the Jews: " Lord of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem, and on the cities of Juda against which thou art angry." God heard the prayers of the angel and said : '' Thou hast spoken good words, consoling words I 'will have mercy on Jerusalem." In the 11 Epistle of St. Peter 1, 15, we read : "And I will do my endeavor that after my death also you may often have prayers whereby you may keep a memory of these things." St. Peter wished to pray for his friends even after his death. St. John saw four and twenty ancients “ who fell down before the lamb and all had harps and golden vials full of odors which are the prayers of the saints.'' This proves that the saints in heaven pray for us.

when Abraham saw three angels, he bowed his face to the ground and honored them. Gen. 18, 2, and 19, 1. When Josue lifted up his eyes and saw a man standing over against him, holding a drawn sword and saying : "lama prince of the hosts of the Lord Josue fell on his face to the ground and worshiping.'' Jos. 5, 15. In Exodus 23, 20, God said : " Behold, I will send my angels who shall go before thee. Take notice of him, and hear his voice and do not think him one contemned."

Christ is the one principal Mediator. But He Himself chooses to dispense His mediation through secondary agents. There is but one king of England, but that does not deny the existence of officials to whom the royal power is delegated. If fifty officials act in the name of the king, that does not make fifty kings. Now Christ delegated His power to Priests and, as the one Mediator, acts through many channels. St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, "Let a man so account of us as of the ministers of Christ, and the dispensers of the mysteries of God." I. Cor. IV., 1. In the Epistle to the Hebrews we read that the Priest "ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins." V., 3. This cannot refer to Christ, who certainly had not to offer for His own sins.

Sabre

2010-07-20 05:45:01 UTC

it doesn't fit into scripture but being raised Catholic I can explained the reasoning, Catholics believe we are all alive in Christ so even the dead are still alive in Christ. So they pray to dead saints to have the dead saints pray for them to god. It doesn't make sense according to scripture but that's why they think it's okay to do so.

Truthteller

2010-07-20 05:49:27 UTC

Mary has no part in any matter, other than her role she had, and nothing further; usually it is self explanatory by the scriptures, and the glorifying of Mary was invented by ambitious early century overseers, which has deceived many until now.

byHisgrace

2010-07-20 05:56:05 UTC

It doesn't. This is a false doctrine of the catholic church. They say they can pray to dead saints and Mary to intercede for them. Why? We have Jesus to do that. Jesus doesn't need help. Jesus said it Himself, but they don't believe Him. They also believe your works get you to heaven. If that is so, then why did Jesus die on the cross? Wasn't that "good enough?" Catholics do lots of things that are not Scriptural. And to disregard the words of the Lord Jesus Christ and cling to their church doctrine instead is rejecting Jesus and His Word. Now, are they Christians? According to the Bible they are not. Remember Jesus said many would say to Him, "Lord, Lord, haven't we done this in your name and that in your name?" And Jesus will say to them, "DEPART FROM ME, I NEVER KNEW THEE!"

ONLY through Jesus can we be saved, not through any man nor any woman.

"One name under heaven whereby we must be saved." That is the name of Jesus. God bless

Amanda180

2010-07-20 05:44:46 UTC

It doesn't. You are being told to go to men, in order to gain forgiveness, when you should be going to God, through the blood of Christ.

?

2010-07-20 05:45:26 UTC

I have never read one verse that says to do this in this manner

2010-07-20 05:43:04 UTC

They don't! This is all a lie of the catholic cult.

Rockadayjohnny

2010-07-20 05:45:06 UTC

Same place as hell. Tradition.