Question:
Christian anti-choicers: Why isn't abortion acceptable to God as an unfortunate 'side effect' of free will...?
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Christian anti-choicers: Why isn't abortion acceptable to God as an unfortunate 'side effect' of free will...?
22 answers:
lucytoo55
2008-08-04 10:11:35 UTC
I wouldn't call murdering anyone a side effect of free will. I'd say that it was making a wrong choice, after which the individual would face consequences, most likely on both earth and after death.



Life is about choices and consequences. A lot of people argue that abortion is a choice, but the truth is the mother already made a choice and the pregnancy is the consequence. If she made that decision knowing that she could potentially get pregnant, then I don't think she should have the right to an abortion, however in the case of rape, incest or health of the mother exceptions should be permitted.
Misty
2008-08-04 10:22:17 UTC
Just because free will has brought about sin, and therefore horrors like murder and abortion, doesn't mean we have to sit back and accept it or that it should be acceptable to God. There is no sin that is acceptable to God and the sin of murder is particularly offensive.



Do we accept the murder of an already born person? No where I live. Murder is always considered a heinous crime and police, friends and family work tirelessly to bring a murderer to justice. This is hardly the actions of people who find it acceptable. God does not find it acceptable either, in time Christ will return and it will all end.
Mike B
2008-08-04 11:13:01 UTC
In the short term (you managed to get this question in) apparently it is. You do seem to acknowledge a long term consequence for "murdering an already born person" Why should any other consequence be any difference. Are you suggesting that we tolerate "murdering an already born person" and let God sort it out?
?
2016-09-28 15:03:48 UTC
i'm unsure the place the information got here from for this question, yet as an adopting be certain i'm able to assert from very own journey....it extremely is fairly confusing to undertake an infant contained in usa of ANY race and of ANY gender healthful or in any different case by using convience of abortions. My husband have been open to any baby....it did not count to us what race, gender or incapacity....(we've a bio son with a listening to impairment so all of us understand that challenged toddlers only desire encouragment and prefer to prevail). After a year of looking domestically and being informed that the checklist for a infant (of any race) replaced right into some years long we desperate to undertake a baby from yet another usa....for the reason that God made each and all of the youngsters OF the international. My answer to the question of "what's your answer to each and all of the undesirable toddlers if abortion is banned?" properly, I could mind-blowing the question....the youngsters at the instant are not undesirable!!
2008-08-04 10:10:10 UTC
There is no way they can answer that because there was no such thing as abortion in those days.



You might just as well ask about what god thought of landing on the moon or flying to Mars!!



The only possible answer Christians can give is their own personal opinion and as we know most of that is very bitter and intolerant and nothing to do with the loving and forgiving god of Christianity!!!
Daver
2008-08-06 08:47:25 UTC
The Catholic Church teaches:



2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:



You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.



God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.



2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae," "by the very commission of the offense," and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.



2322 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3), gravely contrary to the moral law. The Church imposes the canonical penalty of excommunication for this crime against human life.



2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.



Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."
Rebeckah
2008-08-04 10:11:32 UTC
While abortion is a "free will" action, it is no more acceptable than murder, fornication, gluttony, or any of the other proscribed actions in the Bible. I firmly believe that God's "thou shalt not..." rules are for our own benefit. All of the actions God says not to do have long term effects on our hearts, minds and souls AND they can and frequently do, harm other people too.
PARTYMARTY
2008-08-04 10:05:45 UTC
You certainly have the choice but you must make your choices within the guidelines of the creator in order to benefit from your decision. As you mentioned murdering a born person, the penalty is the same.
robert p
2008-08-04 10:32:47 UTC
I always wonder how many abortion supporters regret they weren't aborted.Why is it after a baby is born it is a baby?If a baby is aborted at 9 months it wasn't really a baby (sounds confusing).
Tao
2008-08-04 10:09:27 UTC
The Bible is most specific in its condemnation of homosexuality in the infamous Ezekiel passage. Assuming you don't accept the bible as historical fact, what would be the motivations or the benefit for the early Hebrews to condemn homosexuality?



Before we get to that, lets identify some other aspects of early Hebrew thought regarding sex.



Masturbation is a sin -- it wastes the seed.

Multiple wives is fine.

Contraception is to be avoided.



The connection with those three and homosexuality is that following the "law" of the times should theoretically mean more procreation.



It's certainly no secret that the bible is high on procreation. There was that whole "go forth and multiply" thing in the very first chapter. But why?



Lets forget for a moment that the Bible is the greatest selling book of all time and remember who all these laws were for? What was the context? The early Hebrews were a small tribe who faced considerable opposition from powerful neighbours, internal strife, disease, drought, etc. The only way they had a fighting chance was to breed and breed often.



Anything that could have been an obstacle for a rapid and efficient breeding program was declared to be against God.



Homophobia was a necessary part of sociopolitical platform which enabled the early Hebrew tribe to survive.



Thankfully, natural selection makes us aware that the tools of survival are not necessarily moral. In other words, just because something works, that doesn't make it right. That's something homophobic Christians of today should come realize. What worked well for the early Hebrews, may not work for the Christians of today.
apeman605
2008-08-04 10:03:35 UTC
What? Are you saying that anything people do of their free will is acceptable? You have wasted a lot of time here if you gleaned that from anyone on this forum. On the other hand, if you are being intentionally obtuse, then good job.
ToryL - un canard de Rouen
2008-08-04 10:16:54 UTC
when did murdering an already born person become acceptable?
2008-08-04 10:08:02 UTC
Obviously if Jesus felt it was important he'd have said something. Like he'd have said something about the Earth revolving around the Sun, maybe.
Char
2008-08-04 10:07:13 UTC
It IS an unfortunate side effect of free will, as is ALL sin.

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SoritaLeon
2008-08-04 10:05:58 UTC
Same reason that Hell is not acceptable to you as an unfortunate 'side effect'. Kinda dumb statment you have to admit.
Tim
2008-08-04 16:02:40 UTC
I have thought about this quite a bit over the years. The wide spread of opinions is incredible, matched only by the passion of the activists on all sides. This is an issue that few people are even able to have a civilized discussion about. Complicating it further is that there are few that hold a black-and-white view of the issue. The majority of people in the US see abortion as a giant grey area with varying degrees of abortion considered acceptable. Very few people hold the position of unlimited abortion access or no abortion under any circumstances. Below is the process I went through to come up with my position on the matter.



First, I asked myself the question at what point does a human being obtain "personhood" and as such gain all the legal and moral protections that status entitles them to? There are some who say that the point of personhood is 28 days AFTER birth, at which point you still should be allowed to abort. In fact, there is a professor of ethics at Princeton University that actively advocates this position. This is the position that spurred “Born Alive” legislation that says if a woman has an abortion and the baby survives, that doctors cannot withhold care and let the baby die on the operating table. Others say up to the point of birth. These folks, such as Barak Obama, would hold that this type of infanticide as well as partial birth abortion is a reasonable procedure. Or perhaps just before while the mother is in labor. Or 6 months of gestation or 3 months or three weeks. I wrestled with this for a long time.



Then I looked at the issue a different way. Does human life have an imputed value or an intrinsic one? If we say that it is imputed, meaning the value is derived from something else, some outside criteria, then any one of the above positions would be equally valid. We as a society would decide what criteria to select. My problem with this is what criteria do you use? On what basis is a baby at 6 weeks more valuable than a baby at 5 weeks? Is a baby that has not yet developed a heart still a baby? This hit really hard on my wife and I when we lost one of our children. Lynne had a miscarriage a few years ago. When people with strong pro-choice sentiments gave us their condolences, they referred to the fetus as a child, even though she (we named her Grace, even though we do not know for sure if she was a she or a he. It made it easier to explain to the other children what happened and easier for Lynne and I to grieve our loss) was at the same gestational point, 9 weeks, that they believed abortion was merely removing some unwanted tissue of the mother. So, the criteria used is whether or not a child is wanted? If that is so, then why? The characteristics of an object of any sort are not contingent on another persons belief for perception.



By similar logic, if the value of human life is imputed, it can also be taken away, depending on what some person or group of persons believe that life is worth. So if you happen to be mentally retarded or black or Jewish, it would be perfectly reasonable for you to be killed off for the good of the community if they believe it. I have a friend who is paralyzed from the neck down and constantly in pain. There are some in the world who would look at her and say that she has no quality of life or that the money and effort to support her would be better used on others. They would have her die due to her handicap. But knowing her the way I do I find the notion that she is without a quality of life to be ridiculous on its face. She is a writer, a painter, a social worker, and heads up an international charity. I’d call that a pretty good quality of life. So would her husband who married her years after her accident put her in the wheelchair. Thus, the imputed value logic is shown to me to be completely arbitrary. Following any of the “prior to this point it is not human but at this one on it is” positions is likewise arbitrary and is not able to answer the question of personhood.



But consider the proposition that human life has an intrinsic value. That it is valuable simply because it is human life and no other reason. No measure or quantification of the value of it, it is and that is enough. It is sort of like gold. Gold is valuable because it is gold, not because we as a society stood up one day and said, “we are going to make gold valuable”. Gold has an intrinsic value as opposed to an imputed value, such as paper currency. Paper currency is worthless in and of itself. It has value only because we say it has a certain value.



This position then would support a clear line between human life and not human life. With this position, you are a human at the point that you have a unique genetic code. In other words, at conception. Prior to that, there was no “you”. The male and female reproductive components in and of themselves are not a unique genetic code, but merely parts of the donors. It is only when they combine to create new life do “you” begin to be a person.



The notion of intrinsic value also carries forward throughout life. My mother-in-law was on dialysis for several months before diabetes finally took her life. There are many who would have said that she should just die and not burden the rest of us. If those persons held the position that human life has imputed value, I can understand. I however, believe that human life is intrinsically valuable and worth preserving and protecting for as long as possible. Thus, we should protect life at the beginning and at the end and at all points in between. That is why we continued to get her to dialysis until the day she finally passed away.



So, we come full circle back to the question of abortion. Should it be outlawed? My answer, since I believe in the intrinsic value of human life, is that for the most part it should. Why only “for the most part”? Because there are times when you have to weigh the life of two humans and pick one to live and one to die. My sister-in-law faced such a problem once. She got pregnant from her husband and it turned out to be a tubal pregnancy. Had the child been allowed to grow inside of her, it would have killed her before the baby would have been able to survive on its own. Thus, in weighing these two lives, one would have to conclude that the baby would have to die in order to save the mother’s life. What about cases of rape or incest? I have 5 daughters (yes, that was no typo) and the thought of one of them being raped is always lurking in the back of my mind. Statistically speaking, at least one of them will be before they graduate from college. If one of them should get pregnant as a result, the hard decision would be to let that child live. Pregnancy is not the extremely dangerous event of the past. Rarely do people die from giving birth. Many more die as a result of complications after an abortion. But the bottom line is that the child is innocent of any crime, so why punish it? It is a human being of intrinsic value. I’m not saying it is an easy choice and I can certainly sympathize with those who have had to make it. Perhaps they even made the wrong choice. But, God is a loving and forgiving God, who can even forgive the taking of a human life. Which is what abortion is.
TEH TYME KITTEH =^..^=
2008-08-04 10:02:58 UTC
I dont believe in God, abortion or free will
2008-08-04 10:08:04 UTC
I'm sorry. I must be misreading you. It seems you've answered your own question.



peace
stargazer
2008-08-04 10:04:58 UTC
Ask George Bush. He's terminated his share...
2008-08-04 10:04:53 UTC
theyre just being sheep. Leave the poor fools alone
moddy almondy
2008-08-04 10:02:52 UTC
Because Christian 'free will' isn't really free will at all....
2008-08-04 10:02:55 UTC
idk this is religion here see murder


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