Question:
Does scientific evidence support the claim that the Shroud of Turin is the actual burial cloth of Jesus?
Bruce
2013-03-30 12:31:22 UTC
http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/new-research-removes-shroud-of-doubt/
Nineteen answers:
wren
2013-03-31 02:56:27 UTC
I saw a French- produced DVD 2 years ago which was absolutely fascinating....



Using cutting edge technology and again, top scientists from all over the world, new aspects of this shroud were revealed, that were not available 5 years ago when the last inspection was done..



The Turin Shroud was photographed using a 2D medium but when it was printed and loaded onto a computer it could only be reproduced in 3D. So the experts did the test 3 times and each time was the same....but the 3D view was quite revealing as it was, and if any doubt the veracity of it at all, perhaps you should take the time and do some serious investigation yourself, to concede whether it is truth or lie...but until you view this DVD for yourself you cannot pass judgment on whether it is the burial cloth of the Lord Jesus Christ or a forgery.

It also makes mention of the corner that was ripped and previously repaired, sometime in the Middle Ages, so perhaps the links as above, are about the same or similar DVD ?



The conclusion was that it was an impossible outcome and therefore left the results open to future expert interpretation..



All I can say is this...as technology advances at a rapid rate, so too will our knowledge increase and at a time known only to God, the truth about The Turin Shroud will be revealed.



After watching this DVD I believe it to be the burial cloth of my King, because there are details on there that it would be impossible to fake, based on what we currently have as technology/media/scientific proofs.
carl
2013-03-30 13:14:01 UTC
I was watching a show on this the other day buy a Christian who believes it too not the from the time of Jesus. They tried producing a similar type of shroud they were able to reproduce some qualities of the Shroud but not all. One of the theories they had come up with was that it was an icon originating from the Eastern Church. It was first recorded as by a knight in the 12 hundreds. there is no record of it before that time. They say it may not be a forgery but actually an icon from Eastern Church that when the knight templar brought over to the Western Church it became A relic. So it does not necessarily have to have been a forgery. But rather it could've been used as an icon originally in the Eastern Church during the Easter. In addition there is no record that's the knight thought it was the Shroud used on Jesus.



However after watching the video a couple days later this report came out that you're talking about saying that they have evidence for it being genuine. 1 of the things that people say who believe in the Shroud and why they discount the carbon dating is that there's a couple of mentions of a shroud in I think the 700s and 1100s. In addition 1 of these has a drawing of the Shroud. That it has very similar markings.



As far as carbon dating is concern some people say it's not very accurate. I heard this 1 story of a guy whose dog died and he had the bones down to have a carbon dated and they said it was several 1000 years old and then after that he told him it was his dog that just had died.



I apologize for the sloppy English as this text to speech thing I'm trying out isn't 100 percent accurate.



Edit :

1 of the things that would be interesting to me because 1 of the people in the video said that they can't prove it was Jesus because they don't have Jesus blood DNA to match with blood on the Shroud . However what if they took some of the blood from some of the Eucharistic miracles and try to match it with that. That would be very interesting.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbg_dhI4XCs
Reuben ✡
2013-03-30 13:06:51 UTC
The biggest reason it's come back to light is because of the Vatican, and the Pope's mention of it in L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper. Otherwise it is ridiculous and greatly immature of newspapers to suggest there is 'new evidence', there isn't. Il Mistero della Sindone is largely recycled sindonology studies from 1978 as part of the Shroud of Turin Research Project "STURP", apart from the fact that these new experiments didn't attempt to date it.



There are still a number of problems the experiment fails to address. Namely, the historicity of its cloth. Whilst sindonologists claim herringbone weaving existed prior to the alleged Jesus, there is no hard historical evidence for it until 1,300 CE. It also fails to analyze the 'blood stains' which were found by Walter McCrone to be vermilion tempera and red ochre paint. A later examination by STURP claimed it to be blood, however the report was severely lacking any analytical detail and the two researchers were not biologists, chemists, or pigment experts. It also fails to analyze the lack of cloth distortion that you would expect from wraparound. Further problems with the historicity of the blood stains is that they just don't fit in with Jewish burial.



One more suitable hypothesis is that the cloth was perhaps created by Leonardo da Vinci, arts consultant Lillian Schwartz of the School of Visual Arts made a computer generated comparison of the Shroud of Turin face with the reconstructed face of Leonardo da Vinci, and they matched. It would also explain the complex paint mixture on the shroud. Luigi Garlaschelli made a fake shroud in which he wrapped a cloth around his face, covered it in clear pigment, then baked it in an oven - it gave the cloth the same appearance. One possible method for the 'original'.



Furthermore, even if it does turn out to be real — highly unlikely — it does not prove it was of the exact same time frame. And regardless, it doesn't prove it was Jesus just because of the alleged crucifixion — which it does not conclusively prove. The fact is, crucifixion was a common execution by both the Romans and the Carthaginians over nearly 900 years. And even by the very unlikely off-chance it proves it was Jesus (Not sure how scientists would go about this...) then it still doesn't prove any form of divinity.



I would love for conclusive evidence of the Shroud of Turin to date back to this time period, I like to have my beliefs (or lack of) challenged. Unfortunately the recent 'new' studies just aren't conclusive enough.







But the video doesn't disprove it. It largely revolves around the studies conducted by John P. Jackson, whose methods have been largely criticized, even amongst sindonologists of STURP. His suggested methods of the image being formed by radiation contradict the laws of physics. Furthermore his optics study that states it 'could not be a copy' is widely critisized again, not just for lacking in standard scientific methedology (that is, empiric testing that can be falsified and fails to follow occam's razor), but for the fact it's wrong, almost to the point that it's laughable. Emanuela Marinelli who also believes it to be that of Jesus, also criticized Jackson's study, and found in his own that their is some level of superimpostion of imagery, and that the image is not compatible with having been wrapped around a person. I suggest you actually read the studies which you will find on Academia.edu, JSTOR, and library of digital and scientific imagery, rather than supplying YouTube links with 'studies' based almost entirely on conjecture. Even the Vatican for all its praise of it, wont claim authenticity of it.
?
2013-03-30 12:35:20 UTC
The latest tests date the shroud to between 300 BC and 400 AD. So no actual proof there. Also, from what I've seen the back and the front don't line up right and few other problems. I don't have the answers but I'm far from being convinced.
?
2013-03-30 16:57:55 UTC
while you have several links that support a miracle.

i can tell you there are several books of skeptics with much more to discuss.



people tend to follow what they believe, and disregard what is truth, because they already know the truth.

im not any different.

did you know that there is a second shroud. and that the entire generation traded in counterfeit artifacts?
?
2013-03-30 16:36:05 UTC
No. Terminus is correct that it was scientifically tested earlier and carbon-14 dated to be between A.D.1260 and A.D.1390



The proof of Jesus Christ's existence is fully confirmed by seeing Him in Spirit as here with us today !



No mere physical object, new or old, can prove Spirit and Personality Deity Realities.



The Spirit of God within you and within me and God's Three Omnipresent Spirits surrounding us confirm to us personally Their Spirit Realities !



Perfect peace in Spirit and in Father-Son Eternal Truth !
Grey Warden
2013-03-30 12:35:01 UTC
I want a peer-reviewed scientific journal, not WND.



Also, 300 BC and 400 AD is a pretty big gap in time for people to say it's definitely Jesus.
tehabwa
2013-03-30 13:42:04 UTC
First, stop abusing this site. You are not asking a question, you are sending traffic to your link.



Second, talk to your doctor about your complete lack of brain. No one who has any brain at all thinks that's real. It is a well-known fraud.



LOL, and only brain-dead people think the Romans ONLY crucified ONE person, and that person was an imaginary, impossible being.



Don't morons EVER get tired of being WRONG about EVERYTHING?



LOL, and the Romans always PAMPERED people before crucifying them -- because it was such a friendly thing to do.



LOL



You need to learn FACT and stop mindlessly believing every lie proven liars tell you.
?
2013-03-30 12:43:26 UTC
In short: No, no it doesn't.



But that won't prevent people from writing books claiming it does, because there is always money to be made from gullible religious people.



I'm pretty sure the Catholic church already secretly tested it in independent labs to see if it's a forgery or not. And the fact that they don't let anyone else test it just proves that what they found out was not to their liking :D
sophieb
2013-03-30 12:35:22 UTC
evidence is still up for grabs, so to speak. Evidence is being produced both for and against and both are saying their evidence is correct. I tend to believe the answer is "no". Jesus was not of this earth so he might have blood but not DNA. So these folks are testing DNA and saying it has been contaminated. Scientists are always out to prove things in a non-religious way so any scientist that would say it's the true shroud would be saying they are not a scientist. Belief in Jesus is something on "faith" and not on physical proof anyway.
2013-03-30 12:37:48 UTC
Scripture is clear: the cloth that was around his face was at one end of the burial slab after resurrection and the other linen was at the feet.



It seems everybody just blindly disregards the facts on this one.....
Andrew H
2013-03-30 12:35:22 UTC
(1) Every test has indicated that it is mediaeval



(2) The fabric is not of a type used around 30AD



(3) Even if it was 2000 years old there is nothing to link it to a specific person
?
2013-03-30 12:35:08 UTC
Even if you could prove it was a first century burial cloth I am not sure how you would prove it was covering Jesus.
?
2013-03-30 12:51:17 UTC
They tested it turns out it was from like 1000 years ago not 2000
?
2013-03-30 12:44:53 UTC
Is already been carbon dated to be between 1260 & 1390 AD.
2013-03-30 12:54:02 UTC
It's obviously phony because Jesus never died on the cross! Look up the swoon theory.
2013-03-30 12:56:40 UTC
i dont know why the history ect are showcaseing this but the turin shroud been disproven by modern science.
hasse_john
2013-03-30 12:34:20 UTC
I believe it has been effectively dis-proven. However, all my information is second hand, and perhaps I have been lied to.
Annie
2013-03-30 12:33:24 UTC
Some argue it does, some it doesn't .. they do agree that it is old, just not sure how old...



We will probably never know...



Child of God - X atheist


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