What is the origin of the Trinity doctrine?

Question

What is the origin of the Trinity doctrine?

Answer 1

The concept was INVENTED, at the

Council of Nicea in 325.

Answer 2

When the Jewish Christians were finally kicked out of the synagogues, one of the admonitions against them was that they "believed there was more than One Power in Heaven"...Since the emerging texts, especially the Gospels, made clear mention of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit or Paraclete (the Advocate) within the separating Christian movements, the doctrine of the Trinity was the most effective way to deal with the accusations of the Jews...



And btw, the Trinity was not invented at the Council of Nicea...the early Church Fathers make mention of the Trinity centuries before Nicea...what we don't have, and it's unfortunate that we don't, is the development of the doctrine of the Trinity from it's earliest inception...it has some basis in the Bible, but it is clear that one could find passages and dispel the interpretation also...often, because all texts were hand copied and difficult to distribute in those days, churches only had one of the four gospels, and perhaps some of the epistles if they were lucky and large enough...a central authority - probably in Rome, as "all roads lead to Rome" was a common notion then - that had care of all the documents - including texts that were not finalized as scripture in the coming centuries - were able to systemitize the doctrine, but the distribution of that doctrine was the only communique that the churches were able to recieve.

Answer 3

There is no such word as trinity, But the Father said this is my Son in whom I am well pleased, hear ye Him, Jesus said I and my Father are one, The Father is in me and I am in the Father, In will ask the Father in my name, that the Holy Ghost will come to you. The Son is the image of the Godhead bodily, and The Holy Spirit came to the disciples as Jesus breath upon them. The lamb of God , the Son of God sits at the right hand of the Father, and Spirit of God moved upon all the saints......so many things revealed in heaven the Father, the Word, and Spirit and this three persons are one ....still there is no TRINITY.

Answer 4

The Trinity is a Christian doctrine, stating that God exists as three persons, or in the Greek hypostases, but is one being. The persons are understood to exist as God the Father, God the Son (incarnate as Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. Since the beginning of the third century the doctrine of the Trinity has been stated as "that the one God exists in three Persons and one substance, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". Trinitarianism, belief in the Trinity, is a mark of Oriental and Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism and all the mainstream traditions arising from the Protestant Reformation, such as Anglicanism, Lutheranism and Presbyterianism; and the Trinity has been described as "the central dogma of Christian theology".



The first recorded use of the word "Trinity" in Christian theology was in about AD 180 by Theophilus of Antioch who used the corresponding word in Greek (Τριάς) to refer to "the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom", of which he considered the first three days of creation to be types. He did not apply the word to the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.



Tertullian, a Latin theologian who wrote in the early third century, is credited with using the words "Trinity", "person" and "substance" to explain that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were "one in essence – not one in Person".



About a century later, the First Council of Nicaea (325) established the doctrine of the Trinity as orthodoxy and adopted the Nicene Creed that described Christ as "God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance (homoousios) with the Father".



It was the Council of Nicaea that formalized the doctrine, but were not the persons whom establashed the concept. It has always been taught in some form or another but was formalized as to be taught the same way throughout the Christian faith.

Answer 5

The triplicated invisible sky critter concept is not original; it was used in most religions before the advent of Saul of Tarsus spinning his BS about Jesus.

Just Google " triplicated gods "

You'll find all sortsa stuff.

~

Answer 6

In the Eternal Trinity Himself



communicated in the Bible through Apostolic Tradition

and

the authoritative Church

and theological reasoning (If god is Eternal Love then He must be more than one eternal person in one infinte eternal being

Answer 7

It start all the way back in Genesis, chapter 1, verse 1, the very word translated to "God" is, in reality, "Elohim", which is a pleural word, instead of "Eloheinu" which is the singular form of the word.



It continues when God (Elohim - Pleural) said, "Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness.", and continues through the rest of the Bible.



Additional comment:

In regards to Moses' reference to one God, the prayer the Jews pray (in English) is "Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God is one LORD." In Hebrew, the actual text is "Shama Yisrael YWVW Elohim YWVW echod." Again, "Elohim" is pleural, and so is "echod", such as ONE bunch of grapes, etc. The Jews have deliberately changed the Hebrew text to "Shama Yisrael Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echod." Note that several words were changed to disguise the pleurality of God.



Actually I prefer to use the term "triune nature of God" rather than the term "trinity". You can see this in God's creation as well.



For instance, we have TIME (PAST x PRESENT x FUTURE), matter (SOLIDS x LIQUIDS x GASSES {such as ICE x WATER x STEAM}), SPACE (LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT), but especially MAN (BODY x SOUL x SPIRIT).



The concept of the triune nature of things is neither new nor unique to God, and it only makes sense that we would see God's "fingerprints" all over His Creation, and especially on that part of creation created in His own image, Man.

Answer 8

Nicea.. but in the Bible. suggests that Jesus is God.. Holy Spirit is God.. and Father is God..

Answer 9

God

Answer 10

God revealed Himself in His word.

Answer 11

Bible verses on the Trinity:

http://www.biblebb.com/files/tniv/TRINITY.TXT

Answer 12

The Trinity was decided on by a committee of men at the Council of Nicea.

Answer 13

Well because he is one GOD but three entities.

Let us make man in our Image.

Eolhim more then one.



Jesus declared he was GOD

Paul wrote about him being GOD.

Answer 14

The Bible: God in three persons



•1 John5: 7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.



Genesis 1:

26And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.



Proverbs 30

4 Who has gone up to heaven and come down?

Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands?

Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak?

Who has established all the ends of the earth?

What is his name, and the name of his SON?

Tell me if you know!



Genesis 11



6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7Go to, let US go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.



Isaiah 9



6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The MIGHTY GOD, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.



7Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.



Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever’" (Hebrews 1:8) - DEITY INDEED! But again the Bible says, "The Word (who was God) became flesh" (John 1:1, 14) for "in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren" (Hebrews 2:17) - HUMANITY INDEED! He is the God-man, or, as Charles Wesley puts it, "God and man in oneness blending". In Him two forms of existence meet and coalesce. On the heavenly side He is THE SON OF GOD, on the earthly side HE is THE SON OF MAN.



Revelation 1:17-18

17And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.



Compare the above verse with this:



Isaiah 41:4

Who has done such mighty deeds,summoning each new generation from the beginning of time?It is I, the Lord, the First and the Last.I alone am he.”





Phillipains 2:

5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.



Phil. 2:9-11. In context, the "name that is above every name" is "Lord" (vs. 11), i.e., Jehovah.





John 20:28

28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.



Titus 2:

13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;





Jesus has the titles of God



1. Titles belonging only to God



a. The first and the last: Rev. 1:17; 22:13; cf. Isa. 44:6



b. King of kings and Lord of lords: 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14; 19:16



2. Titles belonging in the ultimate sense only to God



a. Savior: Luke 2:11; John 4:42; 1 John 4:14; Titus 2:13, cf. v. 10; etc.; cf. Isa. 43.11; 45:21-22; 1 Tim. 4:10; on Jesus becoming the source of salvation; Heb. 5:9, cf. Ex. 15:2; Psa. 118:14, 21



b. Shepherd: John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; cf. Psa. 23:1; Isa. 40:11



c. Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4; cf. Isa. 44:8



D. Jesus received the honors due to God alone



1. Honor: John 5:23



2. Love: Matt. 10:37



3. Prayer: John 14:14 ; Acts 1:24-25; 7:59-60 (cf. Luke 23:34, 46); Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2 Cor. 12:8-10 (where "the Lord" must be Jesus, cf. v. 9); 2 Thess. 2:16-17; etc.



4. Worship (proskuneô): Matt. 28:17; Heb. 1:6 (cf. Psa. 97:7); cf. Matt 4:10



5. Religious or sacred service (latreuô): Rev. 22:13



6. Doxological praise: 2 Tim. 4:18; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:13



7. Faith: John 3:16; 14:1; etc.



E. Jesus does the works of God



1. Creation: John 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2; Rev. 3:14 (where archê probably means ruler); on "through" and "in" cf. Rom. 11:36; Heb. 2:10; Acts 17:28; cf. also Isa. 44:24



2. Sustains the universe: Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3, 11-12



3. Salvation:



a. In General: See C.2.a. above



b. Forgives sins: Matt. 9:1-8; Mark 2:1-12; Luke 5:17-26; note that Jesus forgives sins not committed against Him.



4. All of them: John 5:17-29 (including judgment, cf. Matt. 25:31-46; 2 Cor. 5:10)



F. Jesus has all the incommunicable attributes of God



1. All of them: John 1:1; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:15; 2:9; Heb. 1:3



2. Self-existent: John 5:26



3. Unchangeable: Heb. 1:10-12 (in the same sense as YHWH); 13:8



4. Eternal: John 1:1; 8:58; 17:5; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:2



5. Omnipresent: Matt. 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; Eph. 1:23; 4:10; Col. 3:11



6. Omniscient: John 16:30; 21:17; cf. 2:23-24



7. Incomprehensible: Matt. 11:25-27



G. Jesus is "equal with God"



Jesus' repeated claim to be the Son of God was consistently understood by the Jewish leaders as a blasphemous claim to equality with God, an understanding Jesus never denied: John 5:17-23; 8:58-59; 10:30-39; 19:7; Matt. 26:63-65.



Jesus is therefore by nature God's Son, not God's creation or God's servant; Jesus is God's Son who became a servant for our sake and for the Father's glory (John 13:13-15; 17:4; Phil. 2:6-11; Heb. 1:4-13; 3:1-6; 5:8; etc.).

Answer 15

By examining the many comments by various noted historians over the years, it becomes very apparent that the Trinity concept has a history very different from what many believe... Many believe that it is based in Scripture, and was promoted by the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. However, nothing was said about any Trinity at that counsel, but only Jesus' relationship to his Father:



"Constantine himself presided, actively guiding the discussions, and personally proposed . . . the crucial formula expressing the relation of Christ to God in the creed issued by the council, 'of one substance with the Father' . . . Overawed by the emperor, the bishops, with two exceptions only, signed the creed, many of them MUCH AGAINST their inclination." (The Encyclopædia Britannica)



"Constantine had basically no understanding whatsoever of the questions that were being asked in Greek theology."(A Short History of Christian Doctrine)



If they had then believed in a Trinity, they would have asserted it during that council--but none of them did.



Emperor Theodosius convened the Council of Constantinople in 381 C.E., which did agree to place the holy spirit on the same level as God and Christ. However, the Trinity didn't become widely accepted, even after that. Many opposed it, and suffered violent persecution for doing so!



"The full development of Trinitarianism took place in the West, in the Scholasticism of the Middle Ages, when an explanation was undertaken in terms of *philosophy and psychology*." (The Encyclopedia Americana)



Consider now the Athanasian Creed:



"We worship one God in Trinity . . . The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God; and yet they are not three gods, but one God."



"The creed was unknown to the Eastern Church until the 12th century. Since the 17th century, scholars have generally agreed that the Athanasian Creed was *not* written by Athanasius (died 373) but was probably composed in southern France during the *5th century*... The creed's influence seems to have been primarily in southern France and Spain in the 6th and 7th centuries. It was used in the liturgy of the church in Germany in the 9th century and somewhat later in Rome." (The New Encyclopædia Britannica)



"The final orthodox definition of the trinity was largely a matter of *church politics*." (Origin and Evolution of Religion, by E. Washburn Hopkins)



"Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a *deviation* from this teaching." (The Encyclopedia Americana)



"From *Egypt* came the ideas of a divine trinity." (Historian Will Durant)



"The trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians . . . Three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with 'Christian' theology." (Egyptian Religion, by Siegfried Morenz)



"The pure Deism of the first Christians... was changed, by the Church of Rome, into the incomprehensible dogma of the trinity. Many of the pagan tenets, invented by the Egyptians and idealized by Plato, were retained as being worthy of belief." (History of Christianity's preface, by Edward Gibbon)



Many say that the Trinity "is a corruption borrowed from the heathen religions, and ingrafted on the Christian faith." (A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge)



"The origin of the [Trinity] is entirely pagan." (The Paganism in Our Christianity)



3 examples:



Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics, by James Hastings states:

"In Indian religion, e.g., we meet with the trinitarian group of Brahma, Siva, and Visnu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus . . . Nor is it only in historical religions that we find God viewed as a Trinity. One recalls in particular the Neo-Platonic view of the Supreme or Ultimate Reality," which is "triadically represented."



Regarding one of a number of Hindu trinities that existed centuries prior to Christ:

"The Symbolism of Hindu Gods and Rituals", published by A. Parthasarathy, Bombay, says:

"Siva is one of the gods of the Trinity. He is said to be the god of destruction. The other two gods are Brahma, the god of creation and Vishnu, the god of maintenance. . . . To indicate that these three processes are one and the same, the three gods are combined in one form."



The French “Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology” notes one triad god in the Mesopotamian area centuries before Christ: “The universe was divided into three regions each of which became the domain of a god. Anu’s share was the sky. The earth was given to Enlil. Ea became the ruler of the waters. Together they constituted the triad of the Great Gods.”



"The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher's conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions." (The French Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel / New Universal Dictionary)



"The doctrines of the Logos and the Trinity received their shape from Greek Fathers, who . . . were much influenced, directly or indirectly, by the Platonic philosophy . . . That errors and corruptions crept into the Church from this source can not be denied." (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge)



"The doctrine of the Trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation; . . . it had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures; . . . it grew up, and was ingrafted on Christianity, through the hands of the Platonizing Fathers." (The Church of the First Three Centuries)



Church doctrine became “firmly rooted in the soil of Hellenism [pagan Greek thought]. Thereby it became a mystery to the great majority of Christians.”

"In reality [the church] legitimized in its midst the Hellenic speculation, the superstitious views and customs of pagan mystery-worship." (Outlines of the History of Dogma, by Adolf Harnack)



"We can trace the history of this doctrine, and discover its source, not in the Christian revelation, but in the Platonic philosophy . . . The Trinity is not a doctrine of Christ and his Apostles, but a fiction of the school of the later Platonists."

(A Statement of Reasons, by Andrews Norton)



“Wherever in the New Testament the relationship of Jesus to God, the Father, is brought into consideration, whether with reference to his appearance as a man or to his Messianic status, it is conceived of and represented categorically as subordination.” (an observation by Martin Werner, professor at the University of Bern, Switzerland)



“The Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.” (The New Catholic Encyclopedia of 1967)



Who Is “the Only True God”?

- Jesus' Position in Heaven

- - Name of the Lamb and of the Father

- - - The Trinity---Whose Teaching?

- - - - The Father---Superior to the Son

- - - - - The Trinity and the church

- - - - - - The Trinity's Early Origins

http://watchtower.org/e/20050422/article_02.htm



How Did the Trinity Doctrine Develop?

http://watchtower.org/e/ti/article_04.htm



So, the concept of a triad of gods was in existence centuries prior to Christ, but only in pagan religions. And, the idea was quite apparently adopted into 'the' church (not true Christianity) *several centuries after* Christ's death, yet *not* the first time that a council was held on the subject of the nature of Jesus' & his Father's relationship. And, since neither Christ nor any of his early followers *ever* said a word about it --nor did the Scriptures before their time-- the Trinity certainly did *not* originate with God.

Answer 16

it comes from various pagan myths

Answer 17

Despite what the Watchtower teaches, the origin of the Trinity is GOD'S WORD!



They deny that there is evidence that the Trinity was taught in prior to the 4th century (see "answer" below me), but there is proof to the contrary.



Once proof is provided, JWs back-pedal and claim that "Oh, that must have been part of the 'apostacy' that Paul warned about," never stopping to consider the possiblity that its the other way around...



"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.



But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:6-9



As for the argument that there were triadic gods predating the first century, one could just as easily argue the details of Jesus' birth and mission were stolen from pagan religions.



But the truth is that Satan had knowledge of the Nature of God and His plan for redemption and had been working on perverting the true message since "the fall of man."

_____________



Ignatius and Polycarp, students of the Apostle John both are documented as believing Jesus is God in the flesh (which blows the NWT version of John 1:1 right in the trash) Further, they have hinted at the trinity since the first century without it being called that until about 200 AD. Regardless, the Trinity was certainly a belief well before the 4th century.



Ignatius (died 117 AD)



The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, Chap. XIII



Study, therefore, to be established in the doctrines of the Lord and the apostles, that so all things, whatsoever ye do, may prosper both in the flesh and spirit; in faith and love; in the Son, and in the Father, and in the Spirit; in the beginning and in the end; with your most admirable bishop, and the well-compacted spiritual crown of your presbytery, and the deacons who are according to God. Be ye subject to the bishop, and to one another, as Jesus Christ to the Father, according to the flesh, and the apostles to Christ, and to the Father, and to the Spirit; that so there may be a union both fleshly and spiritual. (short version)



The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians, chap.VI



For they alienate Christ from the Father, and the law from Christ. They also calumniate His being born of the Virgin; they are ashamed of His cross; they deny His passion; and they do not believe His resurrection. They introduce God as a Being unknown; they suppose Christ to be unbegotten; and as to the Spirit, they do not admit that He exists. Some of them say that the Son is a mere man, and that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are but the same person, and that the creation is the work of God, not by Christ, but by some other strange power.



The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians, Chap. VI



If any one says there is one God, and also confesses Christ Jesus, but thinks the Lord to be a mere man, and not the only-begotten God and Wisdom, and the Word of God, and deems Him to consist merely of a soul and body, such an one is a serpent, that preaches deceit and error for the destruction of men...If any one confesses the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and praises the creation, but calls the incarnation merely an appearance, and is ashamed of the passion, such an one has denied the faith, not less than the Jews who killed Christ. If any one confesses these things, and that God the Word did dwell in a human body, being within it as the Word, even as the soul also is in the body, because it was God that inhabited it, and not a human soul, but affirms that unlawful unions are a good thing, and places the highest happiness in pleasure, as does the man who is falsely called a Nicolaitan, this person can neither be a lover of God, nor a lover of Christ, but is a corrupter of his own flesh, and therefore void of the Holy Spirit, and a stranger to Christ. (long version)



50 AD The Huleatt Manuscript



* 50 AD The Huleatt Manuscript "She poured it [the perfume] over his [Jesus'] hair when he sat at the table. But, when the disciples saw it, they were indignant. . . . God, aware of this, said to them: 'Why do you trouble this woman? She has done [a beautiful thing for me.] . . . Then one of the Twelve, who was called Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priest and said, 'What will you give me for my work?' [Matt. 26:7-15]" (Huleatt fragments 1-3).



150 AD Justin Martyr



* 150 AD Justin Martyr "The Father of the universe has a Son, who also being the first begotten Word of God,

* is even God." (Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch 63) 150 AD Justin Martyr "Christ is called both God and Lord of hosts." (Dialogue with Trypho, ch, 36)

* 150 AD Justin Martyr "Moreover, in the diapsalm of the forty-sixth Psalm, reference is thus made to Christ: 'God went up with a shout, the Lord with the sound of a trumpet." (Dialogue with Trypho, ch 37)

* 150 AD Justin Martyr quotes Hebrews 1:8 to prove the Deity of Christ. "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever." (Dialogue with Trypho, ch 56)

* 150 AD Justin Martyr "Therefore these words testify explicitly that He [Christ] is witnessed to by Him who established these things, as deserving to be worshipped, as God and as Christ." - Dialogue with Trypho, ch. 63.

* 150 AD Justin Martyr in Chap. LXVI. He (Justin) Proves From Isaiah That God Was Born From A Virgin. (Chapter Title, Chap. LXVI)

* 150 AD Justin Martyr "And Trypho said, "You endeavor to prove an incredible and well-nigh impossible thing;[namely], that God endured to be born and become man...some Scriptures which we mention, and which expressly prove that Christ was to suffer, to be worshipped, and [to be called] God, and which I have already recited to you, do refer indeed to Christ." (Dialogue with Trypho, ch 68)



# 150 AD Justin Martyr "But both Him, and the Son (who came forth from Him and taught us these things, and the host of the other good angels who follow and are made like to Him), and the prophetic Spirit,we worship and adore." (Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch 6) Notice what else Justin say: "Worship God alone." (Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch 16) "Whence to God alone we render worship." (Justin Martyr, First Apology, ch 17)



150 AD Polycarp of Smyrna



* 150 AD Polycarp of Smyrna "I praise you for all things, I bless you, I glorify you, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, with whom, to you and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen" (Martyrdom of Polycarp 14).



170 AD Tatian the Syrian



* 170 AD Tatian the Syrian "We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man" (Address to the Greeks 21).



# 180 AD Irenaeus "

# But the Son, eternally co-existing with the Father, from of old, yea, from the beginning, always reveals the Father to Angels, Archangels, Powers, Virtues..." (Against Heresies, Book II, ch. 30, section 9) 180 AD Irenaeus "Christ Jesus is our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King." (Against Heresies, Book I, ch. 10, section 1) 180 AD Irenaeus "For I have shown from the scriptures, that no one of the sons of Adam is as to everything, and absolutely, called God, or named Lord. But that He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word, proclaimed by all the prophets, the apostles, and by the Spirit Himself, may be seen by all who have attained to even a small portion of the truth. Now, the scriptures would not have testified these things of Him, if, like others, He had been a mere man. (Irenaeus Against Heresies, chapter xix.2)



# 180 AD Irenaeus "God, then, was made man, and the Lord did Himself save us, giving us the token of the Virgin." (Against Heresies, Book III, ch. 21, section 1) 180 AD Irenaeus "Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father,

# is the God of the living, who spake to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers." (Against Heresies, Book IV, ch. 5, section 2) 180 AD Irenaeus "And for this reason all spake with Christ when He was present [upon earth], and they named Him God." (Against Heresies, Book IV, ch.6, section 6)



# 190 AD Clement Of Alexandria [note:Clement NEVER calls Jesus a creature.] "There was then, a Word importing an unbeginning eternity; as also the Word itself, that is, the Son of God, who being, by equality of substance, one with the Father, is eternal and uncreated." (Fragments, Part I, section III)



# 190 AD Clement Of Alexandria "I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father." (Stromata, Book V, ch. 14) 190 AD Clement Of Alexandria "When [John] says: 'What was from the beginning [1 John 1:1],' he touches upon the generation without beginning of the Son,who is co-equal with the Father. 'Was,' therefore, is indicative of an eternity without a beginning, just as the Word Himself, that is the Son, being one with the Father in regard to equality of substance, is eternal and uncreated. That the word always existed is signified by the saying: 'In the beginning was the Word' [John 1:1]." .... ran out of space, continued here: https://answersrip.com/question/index?qid=20080703231