Question:
Why are so many Atheist Arguments flawed?
Mystic Merlin
2009-05-11 17:26:49 UTC
I see supposed Atheists making sweeping statements about Christianity that are obviously wrong. I don't mean that they don't believe in God. I just saw a statement that said the Catholic Church was afraid of Science. Others claim that Christians are only good because they are afraid of hell. When are they going to get their facts right before condemning people.
44 answers:
Michael Darnell
2009-05-11 18:02:43 UTC
I hope you realize that not everyone who claims to be an atheist (or a theist for that matter) is really what they say. Many people come on Yahoo!answers whom are actually "trolls". Such individuals have no other interest than to try to stir up hatred and animosity as a kind of sick entertainment.



I can tell you from personal experience that most atheists never bother to make any statements about Christianity or the Catholic Church at all. We mind our own business and do not really care what other people believe. It is only of interest to us that we be permitted to live our lives in freedom from religious legislation by the state. Your right to follow your religion ends at the point where you get in my face about it.



The statement that you saw may have been in reference to the story that the Catholic Church persecuted Galileo Galilei for pointing out that the earth goes round the sun. While there have been those in recent times who have said that he was not "persecuted"... it is a matter of historical fact that he was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest in the Vatican. Imprisonment is certainly persecution as far as I am concerned, however pleasant the prison.



Various Popes (with the notable exception of the current one) have also expressed negative remarks towards science/scientists in various fields. It is plain that those remarks have contributed to the idea that there is still a conflict, so it is no surprise that many people would still have the impression that the policy has not really changed.



An atheist by definition is simply someone who does not believe in a God. If an atheist is talking about anything other than that - it has nothing to do with being an atheist.
Kelly
2009-05-11 17:40:52 UTC
EVERY ARGUMENT IS FLAWED!



No single religous group has enough evidence to back up their claims, scientifically speaking.



No atheist theory has enough evidence to back up it's claim.

Even evolution is based on an incomplete fossil record.



Well, Christianity is based on fear, like most other religions. Yes, I hope most christians are good because they love God, not because they are afraid of hell or God's wrath. However, I think many people are Christians because they are afraid of God's wrath....

They do not try to stop sinning most of the time. Some people do, but not most. If you don't try to stop sinning, usually you are not a Christian for the right reasons.



The Catholic Church was afraid of science in the past. However, it tries to conform to it now. I dont know if that is a good or bad thing.



Nobody on here seems to get all their facts straight.
punch
2009-05-11 17:32:49 UTC
How about Christians thinking they know why atheists don't believe in god or anything else? How would they know what an atheist thinks if they are not one. A bit flawed if you ask me. You should get your facts straight. Fact 1. The bible, is not fact.



Atheists believe that there is no right or wrong.



Good and evil are defined by who is more powerful.

This is from a Christian (named truth train no less). Talk about a flawed argument and condemning people. Totally wrong.
Kiki-la
2009-05-11 17:32:25 UTC
Most of these arguments are born out of ignorance, while some are right, but need supporting information.



"Others claim that Christians are only good because they are afraid of hell". This is a fact that some are. Some Christians are so hung up on heaven and hell, that this is the only reason they believe. A belief that is a result of the fear of the unknown.



A good majority of Christians also believe that morality comes from god and god only. They do not realize that morality existed before Christianity, or that it is a subjective social tool for the advancement of a species.
arciniega
2016-10-25 09:37:29 UTC
No, you're pointing out that the argument is defective in accordance with an unproven fact i.e. you're in truth declaring that concerns of religion or the supernatural won't be able to be detected in any way with suggestion from the organic, even as ignoring that there are assertions that the supernatural almost consistently consequences the organic. besides the actual incontrovertible fact that there has never been any foundation for this, the interactions might want to leave evidence and therefore might want to be detectable. in this gentle, Christians element to a e book that delivers a wealth of evidence and yet none exists, so the representation/argument is amazingly acceptable. it would want to also be considered that if the Bible is God's note, then it truly is evidence in and of itself, therefore negating the fact that is needed believe on my own. Edit: To make this more straightforward: are you able to educate any valid reason both are or must be non-overlapping or why technological knowledge ought to no longer or can no longer study faith, God, or the supernatural. (for sure, God no longer present day is a valid reason).
Pirate AM™
2009-05-11 17:39:16 UTC
Historically the Catholic church actively resisted science that contradicted it's beliefs. It is only relatively recently that it has tried to "mend the fences"



The statement that Christians are good because of hell is taken from many, many Christian statements to that general effect as well as those stressing the reward if you are good and believe. (I know this is not quite Christian doctrine).



As for condemning, that is solely the providence of Religion as atheists don't believe in Hell.



Nice generalizations, though.
some person
2009-05-11 17:36:07 UTC
I don't agree with you.



MANY Christians, in fact I would say MOST, believe in God because they're afraid of hell. I think that any church that shows the short video "Letter from Hell" is more than enough proof of that. It's a scare tactic, and many other "scare tactics" are used in churches. Many teenagers are told they are in danger of hellfire and eternal torture if they don't repent and follow God. So, no the argument is not flawed. It's only flawed if a person says that ALL Christians are that way, which is clearly not the case.
Ceiling Catte
2009-05-11 17:38:55 UTC
Well - taken out of context anything can be made to look foolish.



But we'll clear a few things up now shall we?



The catholic church excommunicated Galileo for daring to propose that the Earth revolves around the Sun. That's clear evidence of the RCC being afraid of science.



The argument that christians are only moral because they are afraid of hell is rhetorical. It's used in response to the bland christian assertion that atheists are somehow amoral because there is no foundation belief to keep us from doing "evil."
Sky Chumbly
2009-05-11 17:47:29 UTC
The examples you cite are, in my opinion, generally valid: many Christians are largely concerned with fire insurance, and the Catholic Church has a tenuous relationship with science. My beef with atheists is where they make assertions about science supposedly having proven that God does not exist. Also, despite the existence of a number of university programs that document and measure a variety of paranormal phenomena, most atheists likewise dismiss the paranormal for a supposed "lack of evidence" -- and there IS real and documented evidence for the paranormal.
CC
2009-05-11 17:44:32 UTC
The catholic church is not afraid of science. It has accepted evolution as the best explanation for the origins of species.



Most atheists have their facts straight. They are the voice of reason in this forum of chaos. They rarely condemn anyone. Afterall, they do not believe in any hell to which they would condemn anyone.
pmt853
2009-05-12 00:58:31 UTC
Surely some believers in all religions could be accused of exactly the same thing. Atheists don't have a monopoly on making incorrect claims in support of their positions. At least some of us try to respect others' beliefs and not condemn anyone.
Jesus on the Dashboard
2009-05-11 17:35:53 UTC
You're right, but Christians are also guilty of the same thing. In fact, you just made a couple of sweeping statements about atheists yourself.
2009-05-11 17:58:59 UTC
"I see supposed Atheists making sweeping statements about Christianity "



You mean sweeping statements like:



" When are they going to get their facts right before condemning people."?
2009-05-11 17:34:51 UTC
Like Christianity doesn't make far more sweeping statements about us.



Like saying we're just rebellious kids (I'm 30, thanks), we just want to do what ever we want, we are this way because our "friends say it's cool," we know god exists, we just don't want to answer to someone, we hate god, we hate Jesus, we have no morals, we just do what feels good, we're all "pro-abortion," we worship the devil, etc etc etc...



For all those and many other things theists like to say, that don't even come from us or actual behaviors but only what they are TOLD to think about us... I really couldn't care less what an individual atheist says about believers. Their words affect how they look, not me.
Tiedye D
2009-05-11 17:32:35 UTC
Open your eyes, the catholic church is doing everything it can to discredit science and many christians are afraid of hell. Christianity uses fear to keep the sheep in line.
2009-05-11 17:33:08 UTC
Well when are Christians going to get other things right like Wiccans aren't evil. When will they realise that all religions are the same they want enlightenment in something. We all are humans on the same planet. We all have our beliefs.
Martin
2009-05-11 22:03:26 UTC
It's quite simple. If you can't effectively attack the real thing, you invent something superficially similar (let's call it Kristianity), but a twisted version of the real thing, and then attack that. You then rely on your readers not being able to tell the difference.



Some do it out of malice and some, sadly, out of ignorance.
2009-05-11 17:35:01 UTC
A Muslim, A Christian, and an Atheist are in a fast sinking boat in the middle of a lake.

The Muslim looks skyward and says “Allah, save me and I promise I’ll spend the rest of my days trying to reclaim Jerusalem.”

The Christian looks skyward, and says, “Jesus, save me and I promise I’ll go to the Vatican and spend the rest of my days singing your praises.”

The Atheist just puts on the life jacket and swims to safety
2009-05-11 17:31:09 UTC
A lot of people generalize....and you are proving that point.



Don't generalize all the atheists...sure some make those statements but not all do.



It's just a tad bit hypocritical.
2009-05-11 17:34:05 UTC
The real arguments are seldom flawed - they are simply rejected.



And there are plenty of Christians who will explain their faith by telling us "if it wasnt for Christianity, nothing would stop me from stealing what I wanted and raping who I wish."



I would hope that that is not a common Christian validation in the real world - if it is, then I'm glad there is a Christianity for those people to run to.
dudeman612
2009-05-11 17:34:52 UTC
While there are obviously Atheists that have flawed logic and arguments, the flawed arguments and logic of Christians and other religious people are unmatched.
Rosco
2009-05-11 17:31:18 UTC
The catholic church is afraid of science! The catholic church was against the teachings that the earth orbited the sun, that species evolved and that condoms prevent the spread of aids.



As for billy above, 40 out of 44 studies on intelligence show that the more intelligent you are the more likely you are to be an atheist.
2009-05-11 17:33:17 UTC
Uhh sorry but science makes more sence than organized religion. You don't really have any true proof, you can't trase anything at all other than what is written in a book.
2009-05-11 17:34:13 UTC
Why I don't believe in God:



1) Supernatural explanations are ALWAYS replaced by natural explanations:

All of these things were once attributed to god(s) or spirits: floods, hurricanes, the existence and movement of the Sun, Moon and stars, the tides, earthquakes, disease and health, success or failure of crops, rain or drought, tidal waves, eclipses, why children look like their parents, the diversity of life. ALL of them have since been explained as our understanding of the natural world has improved.



Number of natural explanations replaced by supernatural explanations: zero.



2) Inconsistency of world religions:

If God is so important and ever-present in our lives, why can't anybody agree on anything about God? If God is not important or ever-present, why does God matter?



3) Arguments for God are always weak:

The arguments presented by religious people fall into the same categories: argument from authority (God exists because the Bible says so), argument from personal experience (I just KNOW God exists), and special pleading (God is above being questioned). None of these are based on logic or evidence.



4) God keeps shrinking:

In the Old Testament, God parted seas and made worlds. Now God seems to only give comfort to a few individuals, magically craft the occasional bacterial flagellum, and put his image on toast or tree bark.



5) Religion comes from parents:

Children may learn more about subjects than their parents, may have differing views about so many things (politics, social issues, etc.). But religion is almost always chosen, not by the individual, but by the individual's parents.



6) All components of the "soul" are affected by physical things:

Consciousness, identity, personality, character, emotions - these can all be affected by drugs, brain injuries, etc. So all appear to be based on physical mechanisms. No supernatural component is required. No supernatural soul means no afterlife.



7) Nothing supernatural has EVER withstood testing:

When someone claiming paranormal powers or a paranormal event agrees to have it tested, they ALWAYS fail and almost always claim the test was unfair. If gods are supernatural, and if no claim of supernatural has EVER survived testing, why should I believe in gods?

http://www.csicop.org/si/online.html

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-c...



8) Most claims of an all-powerful god are untestable or unfalsifiable

Reality can be tested. A reality-based idea can be proved true or false. But a divine being with no physical form whose actions are indistinguisable from random natural phenomena cannot be tested or falsified. Knowledge or worship of God provides no useful predictions. A small coastal town full of simple, religious villagers is just as likely to get wiped off the map by a tsunami as a big city full of atheists. And if the divine being's actions are indistinguishable from random nature, why bother to worship him/her/it/them?



9) Our understanding of God never improves:

2000 years ago we had a bunch of different religious factions, all bickering or warring over their different interpretations of their gods. That is exactly what we have today. Our understanding of God never improves because there's nothing to understand. But over the same time period, our understanding of the natural world has grown:

- from huddling around a wood fire to harnessing the power of the atom;

- from witch doctors to eradicating smallpox and polio;

- from astrology to the Hubble Telescope;

- from mud huts to skyscrapers;

- from camels to Airbus;

- etc...



10) Complete lack of evidence

If a powerful god wishes our worship, he/she/it need only part a sea, write in the sky or do SOMETHING sufficiently grand and inexplicable, and all religions would unite, all bickering would cease, and all atheists would pray. If a giant voice boomed across the Earth and said "You must protect the planet, must never have more than 2 children, must help a person in need every day, and must stop burning coal and oil within 5 years or I will smite you all", the entire planet would unite in common purpose.



Now, some people will throw out Pascal's wager. But here's where atheists get angry with theists spouting Pascal:



If God and afterlife exist, only atheists will suffer. But if they don't exist, and above are 10 good reasons to think they don't, then ENORMOUS resource is being wasted every day in pursuit of a false idea, people are killing and dying because of a false idea, children are being denied useful educations because of a false idea, and our chance to find unity and save our precious planet and our precious humanity is being squandered because we waste our time on a false idea.



So, that's why I don't believe in God, and why I think the only way to avoid destroying ourselves is to stop wasting thought and energy on the supernatural, put down our Bibles/Vedas/Korans, and learn about the REAL world



Also, they claim christians are only good bec
2009-05-11 17:32:33 UTC
Why are so many Atheist Arguments flawed?

--I haven't used any of those flawed arguments you presented.
2009-05-11 17:30:37 UTC
Have you seen how many Christians are just as prejudiced in their own judgments about atheists?



People are people, and they are going to have bad arguments and say ridiculous things regardless of their personal beliefs.
2009-05-11 17:34:11 UTC
I think they meant that many Catholics (usually older ones) are afraid that scientific evidence will prove their religion as wrong.
2009-05-11 17:37:26 UTC
It's all they have



@ Jabberwockey - Those are obviously atheists trolling as Christians, a very failed Poe attempt.
Krampus
2009-05-11 17:32:06 UTC
Your question can also be in vice versa - why are so many Christian arguments flawed? I really think it depends on your perspective.
2009-05-11 17:32:08 UTC
WOAHH!!! Now don't turn this against atheists! Christians arguments are flawed!
2009-05-11 17:35:03 UTC
so if we had our facts right you'd accept our condemnation?

What sort of evidence or argument would you accept?
2009-05-11 17:32:00 UTC
Want a sweeping statement that history will surely hold true?



Religions are false and their believers are delusional.
2009-05-11 17:31:53 UTC
sounds to me like you are going out of you way to find fault within these arguments
2009-05-11 17:33:37 UTC
Those are not facts, they are opinions.



And you know what they say about opinions.
Person#4
2009-05-11 17:32:19 UTC
They say the same about us. It's like black vs. white only though religion.
Moondoggy
2009-05-11 17:33:07 UTC
Unfortunately, atheists (in general) are no more rational or intelligent than the rest of us. They are just as prone to logical fallacies as anyone else, and they are just as susceptible to group think. Of course, at the same time, there are atheists who make good arguments - you just aren't likely to see them on R&S.
Jabber wock
2009-05-11 17:30:18 UTC
Citation? Link? Example?



Or do you want us to answer without evidence, just by making something up?



A few other examples here...
2009-05-11 17:37:32 UTC
two way street... theists do it all the time



NEXT!
2009-05-11 17:32:17 UTC
They will get their facts right the day blind people can run across the street and make it to the other side safely in traffic.
2009-05-11 17:31:26 UTC
shut up shut up shut up shut up



let it go
That one guy
2009-05-11 17:30:55 UTC
it's easy not to get caught lying if you're only telling the truth.



it's also easier to not make a flawed argument if you're right.
Will
2009-05-11 17:31:16 UTC
When are they going to get their facts right before condemning people.



Answer: When they get IQ's that surpass double digits.



-Billy
2009-05-11 17:30:39 UTC
Their arguments come from Satan. Trust me, I used to be an atheist. I know how their minds work.
2009-05-11 17:30:31 UTC
They are mostly hateful bigots.


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