Do Jesus' words in Matthew 10:28 support the idea that people will not suffer eternal torment?

Annsan_In_Him

2011-06-29 00:42:23 UTC

The really interesting thing about Matthew 10:28 is that it proves that the soul does not die when our physical bodies die. This is confirmed by Jesus in Luke 16 when He says both the rich man and Lazarus the beggar found themselves in two different places after they died and both were fully aware of either torment or bliss respectively. Jesus spoke of hell being that place of torment, and "the bosom of Abraham" as being the place of bliss. The Greek word 'hades' is translated as hell in Luke 16:23.

It is truly significant that Jesus does not speak of hades (hell) in Matthew 10:28. He uses another word, Gehenna. When we come to Gehenna, I think we come to a future state after the Day of Judgement, once hell and the grave have been emptied. Those empty conditions are then thrown into the eternal lake of fire - Gehenna. If hell and the grave are thrown into Gehenna, they cannot be Gehenna. Gehenna is something else, and even worse than death and hell. This is what is stated in Revelation 20:14-15. Although the word 'Gehenna' is not used, the description of this eternal lake of fire is clearly something else, other than hades, otherwise hades could not be cast into it! Just because one earlier verse mentions 'brimstone' (= Greek for sulphur) does not warrant the idea of a lake of fire with brimstone, and another without it.

Now, if death and hades (hell) have given up their contents of decayed physical bodies and 'unclothed' souls respectively, and are then thrown into this lake of fire, that speaks of there being no more physical death or 'unclothed' souls. After all, the souls called before the Judgement Throne of Christ are given resurrection bodies in order that they might stand before Christ. We are also told in 1 Corinthians 15:26 that the last enemy to be destroyed is death and that death is swallowed up in victory after the saints have been given incorruptible resurrection bodies (vss 50-54). I am inclined to think that death is the last 'thing' to be destroyed, and that happens when death (and hell) are cast into the eternal lake of fire. This makes me think that there can be no more physical death thereafter, nor any 'unclothed' souls. Revelation 20 indicates that those souls whose names are not found in the Lamb's book of life are also thrown into this eternal lake of fire. Whatever their condition then, it will be eternal.

But did not Jesus say in Matthew 10:28 that God would destroy both soul and body in Gehenna (which I take to be this eternal lake of fire)? No. He only said that God COULD destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. Perhaps He will exercise His divine prerogative (for nothing is impossible with God). Yet given that the beast and the false prophet are already in that lake before the devil and the demons are cast in; then comes the Day of Judgement; then the empty grave and hell are thrown in; then those not found written in the book of life are cast in... well, all I can say is that if God chooses to annihilate some souls at that point whilst not annihilating the devil and his entourage, fair enough. You won't find me complaining! I simply do not know.

We have been given enough information to realise the utter horror of both hades (hell) and Gehenna (the eternal lake of fire, which is also called 'the second death'). Gehenna infers an apparent contradiction in terms - eternal death. Hades infers torment prior to the Day of Judgement, after which hades ends up in Gehenna. Finally, I note that Jesus spoke of men who can kill the body, and of God who can destroy body and soul. Is there a critical point of difference between 'kill' and 'destroy'? I don't know. Somebody here might probe more deeply. But before we find ourselves as 'clothed' souls, either receiving the judgement of condemnation, or going to be in heavenly glory, the stark issue is not how God will deal with those consigned to Gehenna, because the Judge of all the Earth will do what is right and nothing is hidden from Him. We are called to trust Him now for our eternal security in Christ.

anonymous

2011-06-29 20:51:37 UTC

Soul in Matt. 10:28 refers to soul and spirit.

As for Gehenna, what is Mark 9:48?

Job 7:5 “My flesh is clothed with worms and a crust of dirt, My skin hardens and runs.

There is only one reason why I reject annihilationism:

1 Thess. 1:7-9

Revelation 19:21

Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness He will judge the poor, And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.

If annihilation is a common fate, why the prominent mention in these verses?

Why the DISTINCTION (I'm not shouting)?

Do all people deserve it? Or do only the worst deserve it?

Psalm 90:3 You turn man back into dust

And say, “Return, O children of men.”

Also consider Revelation 14:9-11, Matt. 18:34-35, and Job 26:5.

Also consider Matt. 22:31-33, which indicates consciousness after death, at least for the living. There are other interpretations but consciousness seems to be the most plausible explanation.

Also consider Revelation 20:13-14. Literal interpretation means sea = literal bodies of water so death and Hades = grave. So where is the lake of fire (Numbers 16:29-34, Matt. 12:40, Revelation 9)?

Edit:

Or eternal destruction is just a synonym for eternal torture.

Comment:

>JESUS SHOWED YOU CANT BURN .. HE WENT TO HADES ( GRAVE)( TO SET THE CAPTIVES

FREE TO ETERNAL LIFE ) AND NO ONE WAS BURNING IN "HELL" .

That's interpretation right there.

1 Peter 3:19 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,

Just says announced.

Doesn't identify what the 'spirits' are.

And where does Eph. 4:8 mention Jesus setting the captives free? It just says He led captives to captivity.

Michelle

2011-06-28 17:23:26 UTC

When He says "destroy" your soul, He's not meaning that He will "end" your soul. People use the word destroy in the same way that Jesus did. People say "you destroyed my life!" when someone did something really bad to them. Does that mean that they cease to exist? No. It just means that they are still carrying on, but only more miserable than before.

The lake of burning sulfur and the lake of fire are the same thing. It has also been described as "pits of darkness". Being in complete darkness is also of form of torment. To us, it might not make sense to have both darkness & fire, because fire illuminates our surroundings, but we also need to remember that the Bible also says that we, as humans, cannot fathom everything God does. So just know that they will be a whole bunch of ways to feel tortured down there, not only one.

Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels". Sinners will go to the same punishment place as the devil, not a different one.

Many would say that God could just destroy the evil people, rather than condemn them to a place of torment. The problem is that God made spiritual beings (humans and angels) as ETERNAL creatures. In fact, the Bible says that God has put the knowledge of the eternal nature of our spirits within each of us. Ecclesiastes 3:11 "He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set ETERNITY in the hearts of men"

Will it be forever or will they eventually cease to exist? Forever. Another name for Hell is "eternal fire", not "temporary" fire.

Matthew 25:46 “These will go away into ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Revelation 14:11 “And the smoke of their torment goes up FOREVER AND EVER; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Hope this helped

anonymous

2011-06-28 16:55:10 UTC

Revelation 20:10 , KJV Bible says:

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophets are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Is this the second death talked about in Revelation 21:8? Sounds like it. It sounds like it isn't a death but torment.

Zena IC XC NIKA

2011-06-29 09:16:45 UTC

Absolutely it Certainly Does Matt. 10.28

The Soul that Sinneth Dies. ( YOU DIE) BODY

You shall not bear the Sins of the Father or Mother ( We are Not Born in SIn)

Ezekiel 18.20

Ecclesiastics 12.7

Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

BIBLE

Very Clearn In Both the Old Testament and the New Testament

We Do not BURN in Hell..

Hell is the Grave .. Shel/ In Hebrew / Hades in Greek/

At the Resurrection we are all judged wil rise from the Graves/ and Be Judged

Some will go to Correction and others To Their Rewards.. ( THe BODY DIES , THE SPIRIT IS

WITH THE LORD. ( ALL THE BODIES WILL TURN TO DUST/ AND THE SPIRITS ( CANT BURN

BECAUSE THEY BELONG TO GOD)

IT IS MISTRANSLATIONS IN THE NEW AND IMPROVED BIBLES

DO NOT ADD OR DELETE FROM THE WORD OF GOD

JUDAISM ( THE CHOSEN ) PEOPLE DO NOT BELIEVE SUCH NONSENSE

JESUS SHOWED YOU CANT BURN .. HE WENT TO HADES ( GRAVE)( TO SET THE CAPTIVES

FREE TO ETERNAL LIFE ) AND NO ONE WAS BURNING IN "HELL" .

Kyrie Eleison

IC XC NI KA

anonymous

2011-06-28 20:36:52 UTC

As Far as The Passage is Concerned , I think your Context is a bit off, lest look at it a little closer, it say's

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell:

hat Jesus was doing was speaking to the disciples as if to say God is the one to fear, not the men who persecute the followers of Jesus. The worst they can do is destroy your body, but shrinking back from God’s call can have eternal consequences.

Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows: But Jesus’ disciples don’t need to be afraid, because God really does care for them, even down to the most minute detail. If God cares for the sparrows, and numbers the very hairs of our head, then He will also take care for our lives.

As Far as Hell is concerned?

Following are a few verses that show the eternality of the hell and punishment. God uses different phrases to describe the same thing.

* "And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," (2 Thess. 1:9).

* "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 7).

* These men are those who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever," (Jude12-13).

Is "forever and ever" without end?

The phrase "forever and ever" is used both of describing God's eternal worth and the duration of eternal damnation. The exact same Greek phrase is used in each of the verses in the table below.

http://carm.org/hell-eternal

.

2011-06-28 16:55:40 UTC

This is really getting old. We have talked about it on different forums as well as here, and we've arrived to our own different conclusions.

I don't want to dive into it. but I would like to encourage you to do further research on this matter.

A good place to start is here...http://www.tentmaker.org/

Here's something for you to ponder...

The future is mystery....

When you've made everything in this life about an afterlife that may or may not exist, you've missed the good in faith and spirituality. The past is no more, it is dead; the future is not yet, it is unborn. Only the present is alive. When we are herenow, life flows in us . When we are herenow, we are in godliness. And that is nourishment, that is real food.The rest is just dogma.

I Try

2011-06-28 23:06:37 UTC

You have me well and Truly lost. You are using JW's false teachings about not having a soul, and then using God's truths about eternal suffering. The two do not and can not be considered together. They are two totally different teachings. God taught us His truth, JW's try to teach us theirs.

God has told us in many places that there will be eternal suffering for all that no not have eternal life with Him, the JW's say that all these references are just symbolism and not literal, but they can not nor do not attempt to give an understanding to what that symbolism is there to teach us.

No I will always rely on God's word and not the JW's false understandings.

Claudia Thompson

2011-06-28 17:16:05 UTC

"The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23.

"Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." James 1:15.

"God ... gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

Just these three Bible verses alone prove that the wicked PERISH, they do not burn forever. If a person burned forever in Hell then that would be the GIFT of Eternal Life...

The wicked receive as their punishment, the SECOND DEATH...

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.

The Bible says the wicked suffer "death" (Romans 6:23), will suffer "destruction" (Job 21:30), "shall perish" (Psalms 37:20), will "burn" up (Malachi 4:1), "shall be destroyed together" (Psalms 37:38), will "consume away" (Psalms 37:20), "shall be cut off" (Psalms 37:9), "shall be slain" (Psalms 62:3). God will "destroy" them (Psalms 145:20), and "fire shall devour them" (Psalms 21:9). Note that all of these references make it clear that the wicked die and are destroyed. They do not live forever in misery.

The wicked shall be BURNED UP:

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ASHES under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts." Malachi 4:1, 3.

Mt:3:12: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will BURN UP the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Even the Devil himself is going to be burned to ASHES.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:10. "I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. ... And never shall thou be any more." Ezekiel 28:18, 19.

The term "for ever," as used in the Bible, means simply a period of time, limited or unlimited. It is used 56 times in the Bible in connection with things that have already ended. So when it says they are tormented 'forever' it does not mean what we would normally think it to mean. See 1 Samuel 1:22, 28 as an example.

Also think of Sodom and Gammorah. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed with everlasting, or eternal, fire (Jude 7), and that fire turned them "into ashes" as a warning to "those that after should live ungodly." 2 Peter 2:6. These cities are not burning today. The fire went out after everything was burned up.

What is actually EVERLASTING.... is there death or their DESTRUCTION...

2Thes:1:9: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

anonymous

2011-06-28 16:50:55 UTC

I don't believe in eternal torment, but the second death which is the death of ones soul. Hell is not just the grave, there is a second death and it's called hell. The thing is, how do you define death to a soul?

April

2011-06-28 16:59:59 UTC

A Creator who can resurrect a body can certainly keep resurrecting it for eternal punishment

Sovereign

2011-06-28 16:58:36 UTC

You confuse soul and spirit.

Read this first ...

http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/tough-questions-answered/body-soul-and-spirit/

Then this ...

http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/the-case-for-eternal-punishment/

of Me of Him

2011-06-28 19:43:05 UTC

"Jesus said, Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna)." Matthew 10:28

The tides are in change, as spiritual known. And we are coming to the end? As like the days of Noah, "For this is like the days of Noah to Me, When I swore that the waters of Noah Would not flood the earth again; So I have sworn that I will not be angry with you Nor will I rebuke you.” (Isaiah 54:9)

For I is word and word has no Power in heaven of earth yet it has a Son and in this as truth has an end unto peace to all man and angel alike as above but yet below and this is the salvation that is of the only begotten of God, Jesus as son of God and Son of Man of universal end.

These of true are as platform in the history of how hell gets defined as also again for a thousand years in it turn of tides to as unto the Lord,

Many speak as of God and his word but yet few have seen, lacking vision of the all why it would be said,’ “‘KNOW THE LORD,’ FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME,”.

10“FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL

AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:

I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS,

AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS.

AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD,

AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

11“AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN,

AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, ‘KNOW THE LORD,’

FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME,

FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.

12“FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES,

AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.”

13When He said, “A new,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Hebrews 8:

Yes even hell will know the Lord, as were it was also said regarding a thousand years;

“But do not let this one escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.http://nasb.scripturetext.com/2_peter/3.htm

The key thought is “not wishing for any to *perish* but for all to come to repentance.”

Christ Jesus gave us freedom and the Devil gave us hell but yet the Son of Man gives us a thousands years. Now we are each to figure that!

Jesus saves and the Devil and his angels do not; yet the Son of Man with His angels forgiveness- in spirit and truth and in so His coming will be, and all will know the Lord for a thousand years.

"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.(Matthew 16:27)

Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

http://nasb.scripturetext.com/2_peter/3.htm 14-18

The question is, is the “day of eternity” before us *now* of its beginning of the Mass?

Judge not lest ye be Judge: Is it time to just trust God and let him as what it is too know the Lord?

“Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door.” (James 5:9)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g--Vlij1X1Y We Can Work It Out

.

anonymous

2011-06-28 16:45:47 UTC

In that case, it sounds like Atheists would be right about their afterlife the whole time... they'd just not exist anymore.

Dendronbat Crocoduck

2011-06-28 16:45:31 UTC

Matthew also quotes Jesus as saying that to be saved one has to give away all material possessions and reject ones family and friends. Matthew is very inconsistent with the other gospels.

alan h

2011-06-28 18:42:35 UTC

Why does it matter if you are ready and redeemed?