Question:
Considering Atheists are always harping about proof, why...?
anonymous
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Considering Atheists are always harping about proof, why...?
Sixteen answers:
anonymous
2007-10-30 11:33:58 UTC
fakesham, consider this: The bible attributes Disease to God, Pestilence, Worldwide floods which killed every living thing that creepeth on the earth, yet you find it hard to believe that religion kills? that's a strange conundrum you have built for yourself...



How many heads rolled across Europe for centuries with catholics killing heretical evangelicals, and the martyr Jean Calvin killing catholics, how much blood is on the Spanish kings hands and Pope Innocent's for the Inquisitions? hammer of Witches... Hitler, a catholic, witch hunts in the U.S the list is longer when you throw in Hindus and Sikhs, Muslims and Christians with their crusades and caliphates,,,,
lazaruslong138
2007-10-30 11:49:45 UTC
one question than you can continue ranting-of the deaths you have listed-how many of them were by people who claimed to be christian-i am just wondering----smile and enjoy the day
marbledog
2007-10-30 11:43:30 UTC
I never realised that it was a contest.
james h
2007-10-30 12:08:29 UTC
Yes you are right, that Atheist ask for proof. That is because we need more then myths written in old books.



With regard to your point about wars, religion im afraid is a large cause of terrible deeds carried out by many, including my own, countries:



The Crusades of which 5 were started by the pope and supported by most of Europe.



Throughout the 16th Century the Catholic / Protestant wars of Spain, England, France



The Spanish inquisition, witch hunts,



In the first half of the 17th century, German states, Scandinavia (Sweden, primarily) and Poland were beset by religious warfare. Roman Catholicism and Lutheranism figured in the opposing sides of this conflict, though Catholic France did take the side of the Protestants but purely for political reasons.



With the fall of the Roman Empire, the librarian of Alexandria was pulled off her carriage and skinned alive. Literacy dropped. Even the Pope had to have the Bible read to him. In the first crusade, Christians killed tens of thousands of people they called "infidels". The Children's Crusade (1212) caused the deaths of nearly 50,000 children. Preachers sentenced to death and executed thousands during the Inquisition (1233-1834) for heresy and witchcraft. There were the the Salem witch trials (1692) in America.



In the Taiping Rebellion in China in the 1850's a Christian cult started a war that resulted in the slaughter of twenty million people. In the Holocaust six million Jews were murdered.



The countless number of Jihads spanning as far back as Mohammeds day forcing people to convert to Islam in return for being allowed to live.



The attrocities carried out to Jews around the globe during WW2 based on their religion as well as political influences.



Northern Island stuggles throughout the 20th C



Serbia, Rwanda, Darfur, Isreal, Gaza, Afganistan,"The War on Terror" (a response to religious extremism).





Yes, millions of people dies each year from illness, natural causes, hell even by the inproper use of milk bottles but it would be naive to even think that religion is either the cause or underlining response to many of the worlds conflicts and atrocities, and all in the name of the big chap!



Im also going to add that the greatest things have also been carried out too, people have been moved to do great things and acts of immense sacrifice and charity, however I think that religion only encourages the natural altruistic tendences out evolution has instilled in us.



Thankyou for your question.
Deirdre H
2007-10-30 12:02:26 UTC
WW2 ... a major part of WW2 was the reaction to Hitler killing the Jews. How many were killed? Do you not think that many served because of moral outrage?





Many Native Americans were indeed killed for religious purposes. Part of the reason for coming to America was to spread the religion of Christianity to "savages" ... the 15th century word for "heathen" or "Pagan". In Central and South America, what writings remained of the early religions were destroyed and people killed to prevent the survival of those religions. Killing of natives for religious purposes went hand in hand with expansionist purposes.



Read the writings of Native Peoples to get an idea of attitudes then. White writings have become sanitized. Whites are still often under the impression that "Thanksgiving" day was a celebration of unity with Natives, when in fact a day of "Thanksgiving" was celebrated for the death of Natives.



Trouble in Ireland ... religious.



Much of the trouble in China, Tibet, the Middle-East, Africa is all religious (at least a good part).



It is nearly impossible to find any war conducted in any time that is not at least in part ideological, and people's religious views are necessarily tied up with ideology.



Words like "Manifest Destiny" beg the question "Manifest by whom?" Destiny implies purpose, and a purpose must have a source.



Do you not think that the Japanese in WW2 had no religious purpose? Do you not think that the conscious promotion of atheism is a religious viewpoint? The abolition of a god to me is certainly such. Even if the purpose is destruction of religion, it is a religious war, promoting a view of religion, even if it is that religion is wrong.





My favorite Bumper Sticker: No war has ever been fought in the name of Wicca.
YY4Me
2007-10-30 11:57:41 UTC
Let's not ignore disease, even though it doesn't fit the criteria "killed in the name of." If not for religious meddling, medical science would have advanced much more quickly than it has. The Black Plague might not have been so deadly if cats (that kept the rodent population in check) had not been killed in superstitious fear. Even today, some theists watch their children die while they pray over them, rather than seek medical treatment. Stem cell research is being held back by theists who think that a clump of undifferentiated cells is equal to a fully-formed, living, breathing human.



How many people would go to war if they did not believe that some god was on their side? Who would fly airplanes into buildings if they didn't believe some god would like it? Hitler killed millions because he believed he was doing "god's work." Even the U.S. was expanded by people who believed in "Manifest Destiny," who murdered women, children, and men who they called "savages," as though their murderous acts were "civilized."



Just about every human expansion has been justified by the belief that some god ordained that the invaders had a right to steal the land and kill or enslave the inhabitants.



As an atheist, I believe that our employees have no right to order us to kill. I believe that our employees have no right to kill prisoners.



Religion creates slaves, willing to do the most heinous acts in the name of their god. Slaves who don't question the "morality" of their "leaders" because they've been taught to obey, not question, not think.



I haven't compared numbers of those killed in the name of religions to those killed for other reasons because any number of killings in the name of some god is too many.
Supergirl
2007-10-31 20:43:32 UTC
Consider that for a very long time the church and the government were a unit. There was no distinction. In times when monarchs were the government, the primary advisers were clergy. It is in the 20th century that the units slowly started to separated.



What other than Hitler's interpretation of his bible caused WWII? Ethnic cleansing is a religious inspired action - think Bosnia & Herzogova, Rwanda, Israel & Palestine, Russia et al.



Consider that the global population increases constantly and the number of deaths at any time needs to be measured in proportion to the population.



Consider that today the recovery rate for injured soldiers in Iraq is around 90% while in the vietnam War it was 60%. Less in WWII and even less than WWI.



The figures you state is data, not conclusions.
anonymous
2007-10-30 12:40:19 UTC
Your right, you've busted the myth, felicitations!
anonymous
2007-10-30 12:06:25 UTC
Cuz we like to relish the substances we put in our heads.
Leviathan
2007-10-30 04:34:22 UTC
Your argument suffers from several flaws. Firstly saying disease is the biggest killer is pretty silly. Not because its untrue, the spanish flu pandemic of 1918 killed up to 50,000,000 people.



You're also ignoring the fact that when those religious wars were waged they did not have chemical explosives, gun powder, nerve gas or atomic weapons. If they had they probably would have gleefully killed far more people.



Religion might not be the main cause of death - frankly I've never heard an atheist say this - but the point is that holy wars are pointless. So many people meeting an early end because they couldn't accept that other people had an imaginary friend.



I guess after 9/11 you just went around saying 'So what? Look how many people die of malaria?' You sure it's us missing the point?
Sam T
2007-10-30 11:37:07 UTC
It's true, even when they use the excuse of Crusades or holy wars, the were actually fought for land and money. Religion just gave the people in power an excuse to wage a war for the sake of more power.



Even Jerusalem, a holy city every religion would love to hold is just one big source of money. In the ancient world was no tourist attractions, but Jerusalem brought pilgrims and their money. It was just as important as a bank as it was a Holy site.



The conquest of the new world was suppose to spread religion, but it was all a bid for money and power by the royalty of Europe.
anonymous
2007-10-30 12:20:29 UTC
Funny, but not so funny, how some people keep a "bad book" but not a "good book". Hardly fair. Not the sign of education. If you're not part of a believing community, and if you're unable to see the positive in life, you come to conclusions that may not be just. Baptism doesn't take away your power to be bad, it just makes it possible to say you're sorry...if you really are sorry...and be saved.
anonymous
2007-10-30 11:33:55 UTC
One man killed without any reason is like killing all humanity as per all scriptures. You are talking about millions. It is bad to kill.
1080
2007-10-30 11:38:16 UTC
Because athiests have nothing else...let's see they believe that the universe came about from nothing and when they die they return to nothing...so what can they do in the 70 (give or take) years they have on earth living their meaningless existence, oh yes try to make life hell for everyone by trying to make them miserable as they are.
anonymous
2007-10-30 11:32:13 UTC
PLEASE DISRESPECT ALL RELIGIONS.

THEY ARE ALL WORTHLESS AND COMPRISED OF DESPERATE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO CLING ONTO TO SOMETHING LIKE A CHILD WHO BELIEVES IN IMAGINARY FRIENDS.
anonymous
2007-10-30 11:33:40 UTC
As soon as Christianity became legal in the Roman Empire by imperial edict (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.



Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.



Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.



Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]



Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]



Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]

According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."



In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.



In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]



The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.

[DO19-25]





Mission







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

















Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]



Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]



15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Number of victims unknown. [DO30]



16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".

Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]





Crusades (1095-1291)







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

















First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]



Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]



9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then Turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]



Until January 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]



After 6/3/98 Antiochia (then Turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women and children) killed.

[WW32-35]

Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]



Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]



Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (Jewish, Muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]

In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude."



The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]



Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of Palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". [WW41]



Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. Thousands of heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]



Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]



Crusades (1095-1291)







Estimated totals:







Wertham: 1,000,000



Charles Mackay, Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the

Madness of Crowds (1841): 2,000,000 Europeans killed. [http://www.bootlegbooks.com/NonFiction/Mackay/PopDelusions/chap09.html]



Aletheia, The Rationalist's Manual: 5,000,000





Individual Events:







Davies: Crusaders killed up to 8,000 Jews in Rhineland



Paul Johnson A History of the Jews (1987): 1,000 Jewish women in

Rhineland comm. suicide to avoid the mob, 1096.



Gibbon, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, v.5, 6







1st Crusade: 300,000 Eur. k at Battle of Nice [Nicea].



Crusaders vs. Solimon of Roum: 4,000 Christians, 3,000 Moslems





1098, Fall of Antioch: 100,000 Moslems massacred.



50,000 Pilgrims died of disease.



1099, Fall of Jerusalem: 70,000 Moslems massacred.



Siege of Tiberias: 30,000 Christians k.



Siege of Tyre: 1,000 Turks



Richard the Lionhearted executes 3,000 Moslem POWs.



1291: 100,000 Christians k after fall of Acre.



Fall of Christian Antioch: 17,000 massacred.



[TOTAL: 677,000 listed in these episodes here.]





Catholic Encyclopedia (1910) [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/]







Jaffa: 20,000 Christians massacred, 1197





Sorokin estimates that French, English & Imperial German Crusaders lost

a total of 3,600 in battle.







1st C (1096-99): 400



2nd C (1147-49): 750



3rd C (1189-91): 930



4th C (1202-04): 120



5th C (1228-29): 600



7th C (1248-54): 700





James Trager, The People's Chronology (1992)







1099: Crusaders slaughter 40,000 inhabs of Jerusalem. Dis/starv reduced

Crusaders from 300,000 to 60,000.



1147: 2nd Crusades begins with 500,000. "Most" lost to

starv./disease/battle.



1190: 500 Jews massacred in York.



1192: 3rd Crusade reduced from 100,000 to 5,000 through famine, plagues and

desertions in campaign vs Antioch.



1212: Children's Crusade loses some 50,000.



[TOTAL: Just in these incidents, it appears the Europeans lost around

650,000.]









TOTAL: When I take all the individual death tolls listed here, weed out

the duplicates, fill in the blanks, apply Occam ("Pluralitas non est

ponenda sine necessitate"), etc. I get a very rough total of 1½ M

deaths in the Crusades.















Heretics and Atheists







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

















Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]



Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]



Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29]

The Albigensians (Cathars) viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept Roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]

Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III (the greatest single mass murderer prior to the Nazi era) in 1209. Beziérs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Number of victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic

neighbors and friends) estimated between 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]

Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. [WW181]



Subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. [WW183]





After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324.

[WW183]



Estimated one million victims (Cathar heresy alone), [WW183]



Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).



Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada, a former Dominican friar, allegedly was responsible for 10,220 burnings. [DO28]



John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]



Michael Sattler, leader of a baptist community, was burned at the stake in Rottenburg, Germany, May 20, 1527. Several days later his wife and other follwers were also executed. [KM]



University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. [DO59]





Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori (Rome) on 2/17/1600.



Thomas Aikenhead, a twenty-year-old scottish student of Edinburgh University, was hanged for atheism and blasphemy.





Witches







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

















From the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.



In the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged.

[WV]



Incomplete list of documented cases:

The Burning of Witches - A Chronicle of the Burning Times





Religious Wars







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

















15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]



1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action). [DO31]



1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. [DO31]

Between 5000 and 6000 Protestants were drowned by Spanish Catholic Troops, "a disaster the burghers of Emden first realized when several thousand broad-brimmed Dutch hats floated by." [SH216]



1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]



17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ... to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows'." [SH191]



17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [SH191]



17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant): at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]





Jews







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

















Already in the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by Christians.Number of Jews slain unknown.



In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388. [DA450]



694 17. Council of Toledo: Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454]



1010 The Bishop of Limoges (France) had the cities' Jews, who would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed. [DA453]



1096 First Crusade: Thousands of Jews slaughtered, maybe 12.000 total. Places: Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons), Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund, Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech) [EJ]



1147 Second Crusade: Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57]



1189/90 Third Crusade: English Jewish communities sacked. [DO40]



1235, Fulda/Germany: 34 Jewish men and women slain. [DO41]



1257, 1267: Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. [DO41]



1290 Bohemia (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed. [DO41]



1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51 towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. [DO41]



1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned. [DO41]



1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]



1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. [DO42]



1391 Seville's Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454] Their identification was made easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all Jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear.



1492 In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way: 6/30/1492.

[MM470-476]



1648 Chmielnitzki massacres: In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain.

[DO43]











(I feel sick ...) this goes on and on, century after century, right into the kilns of Auschwitz.





Native Peoples







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

















Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be Holy Crusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood as a means to propagate Christianity.



Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encountered in the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native people who, he said, "ought to be good servants ... [and] would easily be made Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to no religion." [SH200]

While Columbus described the Indians as "idolators" and "slaves, as many as [the Crown] shall order," his pal Michele de Cuneo, Italian nobleman, referred to the natives as "beasts" because "they eat when they are hungry," and made love "openly whenever they feel like it." [SH204-205]



On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, "making the declarations that are required" - the requerimiento - to claim the ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And "nobody objected." If the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding), the requerimiento continued:



"I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter in your country and shall make war against you ... and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church ... and shall do you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse to receive their lord and resist and contradict him." [SH66]





Likewise in the words of John Winthrop, first governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony: "justifieinge the undertakeres of the intended Plantation in New England ... to carry the Gospell into those parts of the world, ... and to raise a Bulworke against the kingdome of the Ante-Christ." [SH235]



In average two thirds of the native population were killed by colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess." [SH109,238]



On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead. [SH204]



The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and Spanish raids.

As one of the culprits wrote: "So many Indians died that they could not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere. The stench was very great and pestiferous." [SH69]



The Indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell." [SH70]



What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:

"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive." [SH72]

Or, on another occasion:

"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs." [SH83]



The "island's population of about eight million people at the time of Columbus's arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half before the year 1496 was out." Eventually all the island's natives were exterminated, so the Spaniards were "forced" to import slaves from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus "the Caribbean's millions of native people [were] thereby effectively liquidated in barely a quarter of a century". [SH72-73] "In less than the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had been exterminated." [SH75]



"And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The exquisite city of Tenochtitlán [Mexico city] was next." [SH75]



Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other Spanish conquistadors likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida).



"When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead."

[SH95]





Of course no different were the founders of what today is the US of America.















Although none of the settlers would have survived winter without native help, they soon set out to expel and exterminate the Indians. Warfare among (north American) Indians was rather harmless, in comparison to European standards, and was meant to avenge insults rather than conquer land. In the words of some of the pilgrim fathers: "Their Warres are farre less bloudy...", so that there usually was "no great slawter of nether side". Indeed, "they might fight seven yeares and not kill seven men." What is more, the Indians usually spared women and children. [SH111]



In the spring of 1612 some English colonists found life among the (generally friendly and generous) natives attractive enough to leave Jamestown - "being idell ... did runne away unto the Indyans," - to live among them (that probably solved a sex problem).

"Governor Thomas Dale had them hunted down and executed: 'Some he apointed (sic) to be hanged Some burned Some to be broken upon wheles, others to be staked and some shott to deathe'." [SH105] Of course these elegant measures were restricted for fellow Englishmen: "This was the treatment for those who wished to act like Indians. For those who had no

choice in the matter, because they were the native people of Virginia" methods were different: "when an Indian was accused by an Englishman of stealing a cup and failing to return it, the English response was to attack the natives in force, burning the entire community" down. [SH105]



On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the "Peqout War." The killers were New England Puritan Christians, refugees from persecution in their own home country England.



When however, a dead colonist was found, apparently killed by Narragansett Indians, the Puritan colonists wanted revenge. Despite the Indian chief's pledge they attacked.

Somehow they seem to have lost the idea of what they were after, because when they were greeted by Pequot Indians (long-time foes of the Narragansetts) the troops nevertheless made war on the Pequots and burned their villages.

The puritan commander-in-charge John Mason after one massacre wrote: "And indeed such a dreadful Terror did the Almighty let fall upon their Spirits, that they would fly from us and run into the very Flames, where many of them perished ... God was above them, who laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to Scorn, making them as a fiery Oven ... Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen, filling the Place with dead Bodies": men, women, children. [SH113-114]



So "the Lord was pleased to smite our Enemies in the hinder Parts, and to give us their land for an inheritance". [SH111].



Because of his readers' assumed knowledge of Deuteronomy, there was no need for Mason to quote the words that immediately follow:

"Thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them..." (Deut 20)



Mason's comrade Underhill recalled how "great and doleful was the bloody sight to the view of the young soldiers" yet reassured his readers that "sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents". [SH114]



Other Indians were killed in successful plots of poisoning. The colonists even had dogs especially trained to kill Indians and to devour children from their mothers breasts, in the colonists' own words: "blood Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives to seaze them." (This was inspired by Spanish methods of the time)

In this way they continued until the extermination of the Pequots was near. [SH107-119]



The surviving handful of Indians "were parceled out to live in servitude. John Endicott and his pastor wrote to the governor asking for 'a share' of the captives, specifically 'a young woman or girle and a boy if you thinke good'." [SH115]



Other tribes were to follow the same path.



Comment the Christian exterminators: "God's Will, which will at last give us cause to say: How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his Beauty!"

"Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the Dust!" [TA]



Like today, lying was morally acceptable to Christians then. "Peace treaties were signed with every intention to violate them: when the Indians 'grow secure uppon (sic) the treatie', advised the Council of State in Virginia, 'we shall have the better Advantage both to surprise them, & cutt downe theire Corne'." [SH106]



In 1624 sixty heavily armed Englishmen cut down 800 defenseless Indian men, women and children. [SH107]



In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some "600 Indians were destroyed. A delighted Cotton Mather, revered pastor of the Second Church in Boston, later referred to the slaughter as a 'barbeque'." [SH115]



To summarize: Before the arrival of the English, the western Abenaki people in New Hampshire and Vermont had numbered 12,000. Less than half a century later about 250 remained alive - a destruction rate of 98%. The Pocumtuck people had numbered more than 18,000, fifty years later they were down to 920 - 95% destroyed. The Quiripi-Unquachog people had numbered about

30,000, fifty years later they were down to 1500 - 95% destroyed. The Massachusetts people had numbered at least 44,000, fifty years later barely 6000 were alive - 81% destroyed. [SH118] These are only a few examples of the multitude of tribes living before Christian colonists set their foot on the New World. All this was before the smallpox epidemics of 1677 and 1678 had occurred. And the carnage was not over then.



All the above was only the beginning of the European colonization, it was before the frontier age actually had begun.



A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.



In many countries, such as Brazil, and Guatemala, this continues even today.





More Glorious Events in U.S. History















Reverend Solomon Stoddard, one of New England's most esteemed religious leaders, in "1703 formally proposed to the Massachusetts Governor that the colonists be given the financial wherewithal to purchase and train large packs of dogs 'to hunt Indians as they do bears'." [SH241]









Massacre of Sand Creek, Colorado 11/29/1864. Colonel John Chivington, a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church ("I long to be wading in gore") had a Cheyenne village of about 600, mostly women and children, gunned down despite the chiefs' waving with a white flag: 400-500 killed.

From an eye-witness account: "There were some thirty or forty squaws collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about six years old with a white flag on a stick; she had not proceeded but a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole were afterwards killed ..." [SH131]













By the 1860s, "in Hawai'i the Reverend Rufus Anderson surveyed the carnage that by then had reduced those islands' native population by 90 percent or more, and he declined to see it as tragedy; the expected total die-off of the Hawaiian population was only natural, this missionary said, somewhat equivalent to 'the amputation of diseased members of the body'."

[SH244]





20th Century Church Atrocities







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Catholic extermination camps

Surprisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practicing Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!

In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar -

orthodox-Christian Serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdienst der SS", watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew about these events and did

nothing to prevent them. [MV]


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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