Question:
What historical evidence is there for Jesus other than the bible?
anonymous
2013-09-06 21:15:32 UTC
The bible contents of the New Testament were written 100 to 300 years after his "death". Did people just create a myth based on the Greek resurrection myths?

Please don't quote Josephus's one line about a trouble-maker named Jesus. There were hundres of Jesuses running around.
Thirteen answers:
?
2013-09-06 21:16:53 UTC
Historians have found evidence of a man named Jesus, but if you're talking about spirituality, it stops at the bible. Sorry if you were looking for something else.
?
2013-09-06 21:36:55 UTC
It's my understanding that most scholars date Paul's letter to the Corinthians around thirty years from Jesus' death -- and that letter quotes a creed which Paul claims to have received from the church before him. John's gospel is reputedly the last of the NT writings, and is conservatively dated around 95AD though many see a pre-72AD date as more likely. While it's true we have no original autographs of any NT books (or OT books, of course) this is the case with nearly all substantive literature of that era and also of later literature, though I couldn't tell you when the autographs begin to become more common.



There are many, many very early, very substantive manuscripts of NT books, not to mention fragments. More than for nearly any other literature of the time. These manuscripts substantially agree with one another, and the few disagreements are not doctrinally significant. In addition, we have Coptic translation and others, also within 300 years (if I remember correctly) of the dates scholars estimate for the original writings. I say all this to point out that these writings were created during a time period when eye witnesses were available to refute or substantiate the claims contained in the writings. In fact, Paul (I believe -- but maybe it was Luke) calls on readers to check with eye witnesses of Jesus' ascension, saying that most remain although a few have "fallen asleep".



In addition, there are the early fathers, whose writings begin around 100 AD (which would be around 70 years post resurrection). These were often men who personally knew the original apostles. Granted that there is more documentation of the families of the Caesars and other figures of political interest, as one might expect. Jesus hardly made a blip in Rome. Nevertheless, His followers are mentioned early and often. In fact, there is more evidence for Jesus Christ's existence than there is for the existence of Alexander the Great -- quite a lot more. Serious scholars will always question the resurrection, miracles, and particularly the ascension of Christ, but the debate over His existence is over. His historicity isn't credibly in contention.
?
2013-09-06 21:27:31 UTC
There are many stories of this man even in different faiths across the middle eastern to eastern lands. Now I'm not saying he was the son of god nor that he performed any miracles. But the faith did have to start from somewhere. Remember Christians get the old testimont from the ancient Aramaic Scriptures. Same with the Jewish faith and Muslim faith. They all got changed during the translation of the script. Some accidentally through mis understanding, some intentionally to make certain laws. The proof of this is the amount of "pagan" traditions that Christian faith has adopted through the centuries of converting cultures.
anonymous
2013-09-06 21:29:41 UTC
No one wrote of him until decades after his alleged death when early christians started doing exactly what they're doing now, ranting and raving about a guy no one has ever seen. And yeah that's pretty much all they wrote about him.



There is an old stone slab bearing the name of Pontius Pilate so he was a real authority figure, but there's also a movie about Abe Lincoln killing vampires if ya know what I mean. I hope people don't find that flick in 2,000 years and think it really happened.
anonymous
2013-09-06 21:24:47 UTC
Your thoughts have not progressed in a long time, Bob.



Jesus' purpose wasn't setting up some "historical" trail

for the Bob's of this world. His was a Spiritual mission

which He achieved for all those who would be drawn to

follow Him by the Spirit of God.



I guess you have not had that experience. Others have.



I don't have a Lamborghini parked in my garage ..

Does that mean nobody else does?
Truth House
2013-09-06 21:43:09 UTC
Wrong again! A/ Some of the New Testament was written within 30 years of Christ's return to Heaven; B/ Among strongest Evidence is fact that eleven of His closest friends died horrible deaths for not giving up their faith in Jesus. Men don't allow themselves to be tortured to death for a myth. Next question, please.
?
2013-09-06 21:27:29 UTC
Your information is incorrect. As earlier as 70 A.D. writings were discovered number one. Number two people actually saw Him after the resurrection at minimum 500 people who didn't know each other including the apostles. A conspiracy highly doubtful? Number three, most people didn't recognize Him as he manifested Himself into a new body. Doubting Thomas became a believer after seeing the scars from the nails and what Jesus told Him he was here to do. Greek mythology is nothing more than paganism. Want more?
anonymous
2013-09-06 21:18:56 UTC
The Gospel of Mark is largely agreed to have been written by 70 CE. Matthew and Luke were 85 CE. John was 95-100 CE. Your dates are way off.



Secondly, the individual Gospels aren't just one work; they're a conglomeration of sources and traditions which historians dissect to find the kernels of historical truth. For instance, there are Aramaic traditions in Mark which go back to either Jesus or his earliest followers.



There are no corresponding Greek "resurrection myths", especially not in the manner that "resurrection myths" in the Gospels are portrayed.



---------------------------------------------



No, seriously. We even have manuscripts in Egypt from the early 2nd century CE. How does this mesh with your claim that the Gospels were written 130 CE at the earliest?



Learn how to learn from those smarter than you instead of being an imbecile who always remains an imbecile.
Muppet
2013-09-06 21:19:13 UTC
Homer's Odyssey, for example, describes the travels of Odysseus throughout the Greek islands. It describes, in detail, many locations that existed in history. But should we take Odysseus, the Greek gods and goddesses, one-eyed giants and monsters as literal fact simply because the story depicts geographic locations accurately? And tells us that it is true?
Paul
2013-09-06 21:21:25 UTC
None.

Believers will pull out a very short list of "historians" (not all of them were historians anyway) who mentioned "jesus." You'll note several things about these:



a) most don't mention "jesus" at all, just christians -- who did indeed exist at that time.

b) not a one of them was alive when "jesus" supposedly was, so none of them have any first-hand knowledge

c) a few mention what christians of their time SAY about jesus -- but that's not evidence the stories are true. For example, christians seem to love to quote Tacitus, who wrote about 120 CE (90 or so years after the supposed time of "jesus") about what christians say happened with jesus. He then goes on to call what christians say a "pernicious myth," clearly indicating he doesn't buy any of it. However, when christians quote him, they leave the "pernicious myth" part out. How about that.

d) there is no physical evidence of ANY kind of "jesus." Not one single bit.



edit for "Arch" who wrote:



"One thing that is important to note. While it is true that the earliest copies (which date to within decades, not centuries of their composition)..."



See, this is what happens when you make up lies -- you end up contradicting yourself, because you can't keep things straight.

Early in your dishonest rant, you mentioned (correctly, amazingly enough) that the OLDEST NT copy of anything we have is the "Rylands fragment" (P52). And you gave the date for it that's reasonable, 117CE - 150CE. Then later you said that the "earliest copies" date to within decades of their composition. Oops. Yes, the Rylands fragment might squeak in under a century from any "original" of "John" (which doesn't exist, so you claiming to know when the originals were written is also dishonest). But NO other copies of ANY other NT books even come close to that. The oldest copies of most NT books are *at least* one to three centuries removed from any originals.



You said you "looked into this" quite a bit. Apparently you need to keep looking. This time, do so honestly.
?
2013-09-06 21:21:00 UTC
Historical Evidence: http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/Historical%20evidence%20on%20the%20exhistance%20of%20Jesus.htm



Your assertion regarding the date of the New Testament is blatantly incorrect.



We have good reason to believe the Gospels were written by EXACTLY those whose names are attached to them.



The oldest New Testament fragment, known simply as "P52" (or Papyrus 52) dates conservatively to sometime between 115 AD and 138 AD. Some scholars would place it even earlier. This fragment preserves a bit of The Gospel of John. Copies of other books date to the second century as well.



Also, we know that the Gospels of both Luke and John were already attributed to as such as early as 170 AD. This is thanks to a rather interesting document known as the "Muratorian Fragment". In it, a church leader is discussing which New Testament books were considered cannon by his church. While not identical to the modern NT cannon, it does display some of the criteria that would be used to decide which books were canonical and which were not by the early church.



The Muratorian Fragment is referred to as a "Fragment" because we don't have the entire document. He refers to Luke as the "third book of the Gospel" and John as the Fourth. We don't have his entire reference to the second book, but the fragment does preserve the information that it contains Peter's recollections. Since John Mark (the author of the Gospel of Mark) is known to have been Peter's personal scribe, and since other church leaders of the same era stated that Mark wrote his Gospel based on what Peter had taught him, it is safe to assume that the original Muratorian document preserves the author of Mark as well.



Thus, by 170 AD, the Gospels had been around long enough that they were already in widespread circulation. In a world without printing presses, where every document had to be copied by hand, and where only professional scribes could do such a thing, and where few scribes would have dared copy Christian books under threat of death from the Romans, the books simply MUST have been composed at the very beginning of Christianity.



I have done a great deal of research on this, and your claim simply doesn't hold up. Certainly other skeptical scholars have made this claim, but the evidence is against them.



Irenaeus of Lyons is the person that skeptics often claim "attributed" the Gospels to the authors Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, but this simply isn't the case. He merely related what they Church had always known, and what he personally had confirmed from the likes of Papias and Polycarp (who was a personal student of The Apostle John).



One thing that is important to note. While it is true that the earliest copies (which date to within decades, not centuries of their composition) do not bear any names at all, once churches began to attach names to the documents, they all attached THE SAME NAMES!!! All over the Roman world!!



Now if, as you assert, the names were later attributions, what we would see is that different churches would have attributed each Gospel to a different person. Remember, these folks did not have the internet, or even telegraph wires. There was as yet no central authority that could say, "Attribute the first Gospel to Matthew," and make it stick. For crying out loud, why would you make up the fact that the first Gospel comes from such a minor apostle as Matthew? If he hadn't written the Gospel that bears his name, you wouldn't even know who he was!! If you were going to make up names for the Gospels, you would attribute them to Peter and James, not Matthew, Mark, and Luke.



But yet, as the churches began to label the Gospels, they all labeled them exactly the same. And church fathers across the empire all give the same testimony as to who wrote each.



So yes, we DO know who wrote them. This information dates back to within decades of their composition. The claims that the names were attached later simply don't hold up to scrutiny.
Joseph
2013-09-06 21:26:26 UTC
There were thousands of witness concerning Jesus the Christ and his miracles, his love his sacrifice to give his life to save us if we will but believe in him, so deny no more the truth that ye to may have eternal life in Gods kingdom.
Ashlynn
2013-09-06 21:16:18 UTC
They have proof of his tomb and cross


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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