Question:
is this the core problem for the Jesus story......?
2007-09-02 10:10:52 UTC
1. If Jesus was the Son of God and the Biblical accounts are accurate, then why is Jesus so glaringly absent from the other historical accounts of the time?

2. If Jesus wasn't the Son of God but rather just a person, then how did nothing more than a "marginal Jew" become elevated to the status of God so shortly after his death and earthly burial?

That Jesus began as the mythical Son of God in the first place solves both of these problems and is more in line with both the facts and the traditional Christian story.
Seventeen answers:
2007-09-02 11:01:37 UTC
Jesus WAS the son of God and the reason He doesn't appear in other historic accounts was that people in ,say, Europe had no way of hearing about him...Sky news wasn't around at that time.
Belladona Spear
2007-09-03 10:32:35 UTC
The core problem with the story of jesus is that he never claimed to be the son of god, he said he was the son of man. And he was simply a prophet who wanted to bring judaism back in line. At that time judaism was in the hands of people who saw it as a way of making money. Everyone seems to think jesus was the first christian but he wasn't, he was a jew and he'd probably be disgusted that a new religion had been started that worships him on a level with god.



Jesus wasn't considered divine until a few centuries later when the bible was put together by the romans as a convenient way of controling people. Have you noticed how there's very little in the bible about jesus' middle life? We know about his birth because it shows him as divine and we know about his last years because again it shows him as divine. But what about his middle years? It's because he was a normal human (not divine) jewish man. No doubt he got married and had children as this was the norm for a jewish man of that time. But all this is left out because it would show him as a regular man, not the son of god.
wondermus
2007-09-03 06:09:58 UTC
I prefer your third option, but, the first century was a momentous time period. It was the dawn of the new age of Pisces. It's not unlikely that an ordinary rabble rouser could end up being turned into a legend and then a mythical figure in such a time.



(1) is not a reasonable possibility.
Montgomery B
2007-09-02 18:27:51 UTC
Jesus did exist, but he is only known and mentioned for causing a nuisance by claiming to be the son of a god.

No-one believed him except twelve of his friends, all of which were homo-sexual, including Judas who shopped him to the Romans because he was jealous of Jesus`s attention to Peter and Paul.

The Romans crucified him, as they did with all those who claimed to be the son of a god and, as it was not one of their gods, like Thor or Mars etc, they crucified him. He cried out for his father, but his `father` was too busy fornicating with his mother, Mary. Any other god took no notice as he, Jesus, was a fraud

That`s about it really
2007-09-02 17:20:31 UTC
There is more evidence of the life of Jesus than there is of William the Conqueror or Henry VIII. The Roman secret service had him under surveillance for years and his file was one of the largest they had. In 321AD, the Catholic Church took over the Roman civil service and the file is in the Vatican library. Most historians of the time also make mention of him, particularly Josephus.
Yoda
2007-09-02 17:42:36 UTC
109. Jesus said, "The (Father's) kingdom is like a person who had a treasure hidden in his field but did not know it. And [when] he died he left it to his [son]. The son [did] not know about it either. He took over the field and sold it. The buyer went plowing, [discovered] the treasure, and began to lend money at interest to whomever he wished."



1) Every person has hidden treasure within them, Jesus was self realized and saw God within him. Everyone and everything exist as a result of God starting the universe. The universe is within God and God is within the universe. That means every living creature is a part of God, and hence the metaphor that Jesus is a son of God. People who aren't self realized see not their true selves and so disown God. This is why their souls are fallen.



2) The allegation that Jesus is a marginal Jew is clearly rubbish. Marginal Jew's do not get up the noses of the Sanhedrin and end up being silenced for it. Clearly Jesus was a figure head for a movement that the Sanhedrin dispized and feared: If he was marginal, he would have died in history like so many marginal self proclaimed prophets. Stories of Jesus had spread along traditional trading routes accross the middle east, and mesapotamia. Jesus is to God as an avatar is to a computer game player.



Check out what Jesus says' about himself::

--------------------

13. Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to something and tell me what I am like."



Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a just messenger."



Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."



Thomas said to him, "Teacher, my mouth is utterly unable to say what you are like."



Jesus said, "I am not your teacher. Because you have drunk, you have become intoxicated from the bubbling spring that I have tended."

--------------------------



**Hence here Jesus acknowledges that Thomas has seen God in himself and therefore recognized Jesus.



See:

----------------

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. There is light within a person of light, and it shines on the whole world. If it does not shine, it is dark."

70. Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not have that within you, what you do not have within you [will] kill you."



83. Jesus said, "Images are visible to people, but the light within them is hidden in the image of the Father's light. He will be disclosed, but his image is hidden by his light."



84. Jesus said, "When you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!"

-----------------------------------------



God creates everything, so every living being is alive because of what God started into motion. Like a spark that starts a fire, and the fire spreads: It consumes the whole world.



Further more, a son will honour his father. Jesus honoured God by his devotion, and so is acting as a son does for his father.



What is important about Jesus is the teachings: The word of God. It is better for a person to study that, than the narrative.
punch
2007-09-02 17:28:37 UTC
It wasn't shortly after his death. It was a good 70 plus years.
Holly Carmichael
2007-09-02 17:24:20 UTC
He's not absent from ALL other accounts of history.



He's in the Koran, and in Greek history, Jewish history, Roman history, and many middle Eastern histories... and this too:



http://www.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webglimpse/webglimpse/usr/local/www/data/papers?query=Scribe+of+Damascus&submit=Submit



So, why do you think he's absent, how far and wide have you checked?
2007-09-02 17:38:30 UTC
Jesus is in the Bible from Genesis through Revelation, He existed in heaven before coming to earth to be born as a human and ascended back to heaven not long after his death and resurrection, Jesus is God's Son, not God.
2007-09-02 17:22:41 UTC
1 the histories of man are controlled by the fallen angel(if that deciever wants to destroy all written records he probably could barring);

the HOLY GHOST that runs from cover to cover throughout the BIBLE keeps those books whole; unchanged....

Tacticus says in 103AD that it is indeed strange times that a Roman fears to speak what is on His mind.....

just so you know............

2 JESUS EMMANUEL (that being interpreted as GOD with us) is GOD made flesh

rose from the dead........

salvation....

HE

has

RISEN
Cap'n Zeemboo
2007-09-02 17:18:08 UTC
Jesus stirred things up, trying to inject a host of much-needed changes into a Judaism that had strayed too far from its teachings. His early followers kept up that fight after he was killed. It wasn't until Paul came along that it all got turned on its head, into something that Jesus never intended.
Iain
2007-09-02 17:18:16 UTC
The core problem of the whole Jesus thing is that Christians expect privileges which are denied others. They can give it out but they cannot take it.

///
2007-09-02 17:21:13 UTC
Are you referring to Jesus the famous convicted criminal? Yes I think he was tried and convicted for blasphemy, so I guess he'd be listed in the court records of the time.
manapaformetta
2007-09-02 18:50:00 UTC
how does that solve the problem? the problem started in genesis chapter 2
2007-09-02 17:18:27 UTC
This website completely wipes out Jesus...



http://www.jesusneverexisted.com



Jesus is the most over-rated myth.
jeanimus
2007-09-02 17:17:00 UTC
1) he isnt, hes mentioned in a few texts.
DAVID C
2007-09-02 18:29:16 UTC
Its not that simple...



There is no survivng archeological evidence, but then any son of a carpenter is going to be hard to find.



Eyewitness accounts, well the oldest - Mark's Gospel may have been written in Rome around 50-65 CE. 30 years after the events, but some sugesst that they were written later. This collection of gospels are not what they seem and historians search, as yet just a theoretical construct, has been given the name "Q" (short for Quelle, German for "source").



It's a tempting idea. Mark is regarded as the earliest gospel and hence closest to Q. Of the 661 verses in Mark, only 24 aren't quoted in either Matthew or Luke. Matthew and Luke occasionally disagree with Mark regarding Jesus' words or the order of events, but they never both disagree on the same point.



The problem with Mark, it appears that was he was not 'the' apostle himself, was an associate of the apostle Paul for a short time, but the gospel bearing his name is (to some minds) is based on the preaching of Peter. It's generally assumed to have been the first gospel written, coming in right before Matthew at about 65 AD. So he was not an eye witness, but a associate of somebody who never met Jesus, writing about the words of somebody who had met Jesus?



The author of Matthew is traditionally held to be the tax collector mentioned in Matthew 9:9, sometimes referred to as Levi. However, Matthew borrows heavily from the Gospel of Mark. It's hard to believe someone who was in close contact with Jesus would have had to rely on secondary sources. Since this gospel has the most quotations from the Old Testament, sometimes going to ridiculous lengths to try to show that Jesus was the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, it's assumed that Matthew was written for a Jewish audience. There is suspicion that it might have been originally written in Hebrew, although only Greek texts have ever been found. Scholars differ on the composition date, but most agree on roughly 65 - 70 AD with a few placing at as late as 100 - 134 AD.



The Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts are assumed to have been written by the same person, since they are addressed to the same individual, a Roman named Theophilus. The author was a doctor, Paul notes in Colossians 4:14. If Mark represents the teachings of Peter about Jesus, Luke most likely represents the teachings of Paul. Luke claims to have researched his material, but his dating, especially in the early chapters regarding Jesus' birth, is inconsistent with other sources.



The book of Acts can be seen as a sequel to the gospel of Luke, starting where the previous book ends. But where in the earlier work Luke needed to research the story, in Acts he is a character in it. He was a companion of Paul on his missionary journeys and was present during his imprisonment. In this sense, Luke had more first-hand experience of Paul than he had of Jesus. Both books were probably written after Matthew and Mark, probably around 65-70 AD but before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.



The Gospel of John differs markedly from the other three books both in tone and in some historical details. John does not follow the timeline in the other three and adds quite a few stories and details not found in them. For this reason, it's thought that John's gospel was not a child of Q, but a completely original work either by someone who knew Jesus directly or by one of his associates. The three letters of John found near the end of the New Testament are generally assumed to have been written by this same individual.



The identity of John has remained a mystery, although tradition has it that he is "the disciple that Jesus loved" mentioned in John 13:23. But here is a curious thing. In the entire gospel, John never mentions his own name (although he does mention other gospel writers). His purpose is to exalt the deity of Jesus. It seems out of character for him to pat himself on the back in that one verse, if in fact he was John the apostle.



William Barclay gives us an elegant answer. He states outright that even if John was not the direct author of the book, it was at least written under his authority. The book likely dates from about 100 AD, the last of the books to be written. If this dating is accurate, John would have been very old. Barclay posits that it was probably a group writing remembrances from John's fading memories, and it was they who described John as the disciple Jesus loved..



Christ is supposed to have been a Jew, and his disciples are said to have been Jewish fishermen. His language, and the language of his followers must, therefore, have been Aramaic -- the popular language of Palestine in that age. But the Gospels are written in Greek -- every one of them. Nor were they translated from some other language. Every leading Christian scholar since Erasmus, four hundred years ago, has maintained that they were originally written in Greek. This proves that they were not written by Christ's disciples, or by any of the early Christians. Foreign Gospels, written by unknown men, in a foreign tongue, several generations after the death of those who are supposed to have known the facts -- such is the evidence relied upon to prove that Jesus lived.



So we don't have an eye-witness account for him



How about historical contemporary litrature. let me just say that there are over 70 Jesus's at this time, in the historical records for Judea, but not one conforms to Jesus of Nazareths profile.



The Gospels know nothing of thirty years of Christ's life. What do they know of the last years of that life? How long did the ministry, the public career of Christ, continue? According to Matthew, Mark and Luke, the public life of Christ lasted about a year. If John's Gospel is to be believed, his ministry covered about three years. The Synoptics teach that Christ's public work was confined almost entirely to Galilee, and that he went to Jerusalem only once, not long before his death. John is in hopeless disagreement with the other Evangelists as to the scene of Christ's labors. He maintains that most of the public life of Christ was spent in Judea, and that Christ was many times in Jerusalem. Now, between Galilee and Judea there was the province of Samaria. If all but the last few weeks of Christ's ministry was carried on in his native province of Galilee, it is certain that the greater part of that ministry was not spent in Judea, two provinces away.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
Loading...