Jehovah's Witness you say that the Trinity is not taught in the bible but Trinitarians believe it does?

Question

Jehovah's Witness you say that the Trinity is not taught in the bible but Trinitarians believe it does?

Answer 1

There are many scriptures that interchange God for Jesus and then for the Holy Spirit showing that all three are God. For example in John 10:30 Jesus says "I and the Father are one"; in 2Cor 3:17 it says "The Lord is the Spirit"; Isaiah 9:6 says that Jesus would be called "Might God, Everlasting Father". God told Moses his name was "I AM" Jesus also said "I AM".



In 1Cor 3:16 scripture state "The Spirit of God dwells in you"

Rom 8:9 states "The Spirit of Christ is in us"

2Tim 1:14 says "The Holy Spirit dwells in us"



yet there is only one Spirit.



JW deny the deity of Christ because they believe he was an angel, which is totally unscriptural.

Answer 2

It is not taught in THEIR bible because it was edited. It certainly is taught in other Bibles though





Bad Translations of the Jehovah's Witness Bible, the New World Translation (NWT).



1. Gen. 1:1-2 - "In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters," (New World Translation, emphasis added).

1. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society denies that the Holy Spirit is alive, the third person of the Trinity. Therefore, they have changed the correct translation of "...the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters," to say "...and God's active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters."

2. Zech. 12:10 - In this verse God is speaking and says, "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son" (Zech. 12:10, NASB).

1. The Jehovah's Witnesses change the word "me" to "the one" so that it says in their Bible, "...they will look upon the one whom they have pierced..."

Since the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God in flesh, then Zech. 12:10 would present obvious problems--so they changed it.

3. John 1:1 - They mistranslate the verse as "a god." Again it is because they deny who Jesus is and must change the Bible to make it agree with their theology. The Jehovah's Witness version is this: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

4. Col. 1:15-17 - The word "other" is inserted 4 times. It is not in the original Greek, nor is it implied. This is a section where Jesus is described as being the creator of all things. Since the Jehovah's Witness organization believes that Jesus is created, they have inserted the word "other" to show that Jesus was before all "other" things, implying that He is created.

1. There are two Greek words for "other": heteros, and allos. The first means another of a different kind, and the second means another of the same kind. Neither is used at all in this section of scripture. The Jehovah's Witness have changed the Bible to make it fit their aberrant theology.

5. Heb. 1:6 - In this verse they translate the Greek word for worship, proskuneo, as "obeisance." Obeisance is a word that means to honor, show respect, even bow down before someone. Since Jesus, to them, is created, then he cannot be worshiped. They have also done this in other verses concerning Jesus, i.e., Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9.

6. Heb. 1:8 - This is a verse where God the Father is calling Jesus God: "But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.'" Since the Jehovah's Witnesses don't agree with that they have changed the Bible, yet again, to agree with their theology. They have translated the verse as "...God is your throne..." The problem with the Jehovah's Witness translation is that this verse is a quote from Psalm 45:6 which, from the Hebrew, can only be translated as "...Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom." To justify their New Testament translation they actually changed the OT verse to agree with their theology, too!



The NWT translation is not a good translation. It has changed the text to suit its own theological bias in many places.

Answer 3

The basic problem is that trinitarianism is a nonbiblical doctrine that contradicts a number of biblical teachings and many specific verses of Scripture. Moreover, the doctrine contains a number of internal contradictions. Of course, the most obvious internal contradiction is how there can be three persons of God in any meaningful sense and yet there be only one God.



Below we have compiled a number of other contradictions and problems associated with trinitarianism. This list is not exhaustive but it does give an idea of how much the doctrine deviates from the Bible.



1. Did Jesus Christ have two fathers? The Father is the Father of the Son (I John 1:3), yet the child born of Mary was conceived by the Holy Ghost (Matthew 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35). Which one is the true father? Some trinitarians say that the Holy Ghost was merely the Father's agent in conception - a process they compare to artificial insemination!



2. How many Spirits are there? God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24), the Lord Jesus is a Spirit (II Corinthians 3:17), and the Holy Spirit is a Spirit by definition. Yet there is one Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).



3. If Father and Son are co-equal persons, why did Jesus pray to the Father? (Matthew 11:25). Can God pray to God?



4. Similarly, how can the Son not know as much as the Father? (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32).



5. Similarly, how can the Son not have any power except what the Father gives Him? (John 5:19, 30; 6:38).



6. Similarly, what about other verses of Scripture indicating the inequality of the Son and the Father? (John 8:42; 14:28; I Corinthians 11:3).



7. Did "God the Son" die? The Bible says the Son died (Romans 5:10). If so, can God die? Can part of God die?



8. How can there be an eternal Son when the Bible speaks of the begotten Son, clearly indicating that the Son had a beginning? (John 3:16; Hebrews 1:5-6).



9. If the Son is eternal and existed at creation, who was His mother at that time? We know the Son was made of a woman (Galatians 4:4).



10. Did "God the Son" surrender His omnipresence while on earth? If so, how could he still be God?



11. If the Son is eternal and immutable (unchangeable), how can the reign of the Son have an ending? (I Corinthians 15:24-28).



12. If in answer to questions 3 through 11 we say only the human Son of God was limited in knowledge, was limited in power, and died, then how can we speak of "God the Son"? Are there two Sons?



13. Whom do we worship and to whom do we pray? Jesus said to worship the Father (John 4:21-24), yet Stephen prayed to Jesus (Acts 7:59-60).



14. Can there be more than three persons in the Godhead? Certainly the Old Testament does not teach three but emphasizes oneness. If the New Testament adds to the Old Testament message and teaches three persons, then what is to prevent subsequent revelations of additional persons? If we apply trinitarian logic to interpret some verses of Scripture, we could teach a fourth person (Isaiah 48:16; Colossians 1:3; 2:2; I Thessalonians 3:11; James 1:27). Likewise, we could interpret some verses of Scripture to mean six more persons (Revelation 3:1; 5:6).



15. Are there three Spirits in a Christian's heart? Father, Jesus, and the Spirit all dwell within a Christian (John 14:17, 23; Romans 8:9; Ephesians 3:14-17). Yet there is one Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:4).



16. There is only one throne in heaven (Revelation 4:2). Who sits upon it? We know Jesus does (Revelation 1:8,18, 4:8). Where do the Father and the Holy Spirit sit?



17. If Jesus is on the throne, how can He sit on the right hand of God? (Mark 16:19). Does He sit or stand on the right hand of God? (Acts 7:55). Or is He in the Father's bosom? (John 1:18).



18. Is Jesus in the Godhead or is the Godhead in Jesus? Colossians 2:9 says the latter.



19. Given Matthew 28:19, why did the apostles consistently baptize both Jews and Gentiles using the name of Jesus, even to the extent of rebaptism? (Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5; 22:16; I Corinthians 1:13).



20. Who raised Jesus from the dead? Did the Father (Ephesians 1:20), or Jesus (John 2:19-21), or the Spirit? (Romans 8:11).



21. If Son and Holy Ghost are co-equal persons in the Godhead, why is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost unforgivable but blasphemy of the Son is not? (Luke 12:10).



22. If the Holy Ghost is a co-equal member of the trinity, why does the Bible always speak of Him being sent from the Father or from Jesus? (John 14:26; 15:26).



23. Does the Father know something that the Holy Spirit does not know? If so, how can they be co-equal? Only the Father knows the day and hour of the Second Coming of Christ (Mark 13:32).



24. Did the trinity make the Old and New covenants? We know the LORD (Jehovah) did (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:7-13). If Jehovah is a trinity then Father, Son, and Spirit all had to die to make the new covenant effective (Hebrews 9:16-17).



25. If the Spirit proceeds from the Father, is the Spirit also a son of the Father? If not, why not?



26. If the Spirit proceeds from the Son, is the Spirit the grandson of the Father? If not, why not?



[I am a Oneness Christian]

Answer 4

The JW cult very often misrepresents the Trinity doctrine by replacing it with the Triad teaching. They often are taught that Trinitarians believe in three gods. This is not true. In contrast to the trinity, a Triad is three separate gods. Each is a god. Therefore, in the doctrine of the triad, the Father is a god, the Son is a god, and the Holy Spirit is a god. This is not the doctrine of the Trinity and it is not biblical.



The Trinity is the teaching that there exists only one God in all the universe, none before and none after Him (Isaiah 44:6,8) and that God consists of three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son who is not the same person as the Father, who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit. Yet, there are not three gods, but one.



The cult claims that the early Christians copied the Holy Trinity from surrounding pagan religions. They are a mile from the truth. The Babylonians first conceived of a triad of gods. Later the Egyptians worshipped the triad of Osiris, Isis and Horus. During the time of Christ, the Romans idolized Jupiter, Juno, and Minerva.



Christianity is the only religion to ever worship a trinity!



God Bless!

Answer 5

Subject: God is not three deities



John 1:18 "No one has seen God at any time."

John 1:32 "And John bore witness, saying, "I saw the Spirit..."



Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God [is] one Jehovah"



Question: What would would happen if there were a trinity?



If God was a trinity and Jesus was God then no one died for our sins. Jesus as God simply left behind his human covering and went to heaven (others say hades) for three days.

Answer 6

Trinitarians have yet to locater a single verse in the Bible that has "Trinity" in it or that explains the concept of "three persons in one God."



The verse some like to go to, 1 John 5:7, is a false verse, added to the New Testament long after it was written.



The fact that someone had to ADD a Trinitarian verse to the Bible shows that the doctrine was and still is on very shaky ground.



We don't have to prove a negative. But Trinitarians do have to prove the positive.

Answer 7

Shay~ please go further with that scripture. 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (continues) (just as Jesus and the congregations are one) 9 If we receive the witness men give, the witness God gives is greater, because this is the witness God gives, the fact that he has borne witness concerning his Son. 10 The [person] putting his faith in the Son of God has the witness given in his own case. The [person] not having faith in God has made him a liar, because he has not put his faith in the witness given, which God as witness has given concerning his Son. 11 And this is the witness given, that God gave us everlasting life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that has the Son has this life; he that does not have the Son of God does not have this life.



How does holy spirit comedown on the person owning it, and announce that he is his own son and that he approves himself?



Too much!

And did god die and not exists but come back into existence to resurrect himself?



I will go with Jesus words~ John 14:28, “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I."



Another thing to ponder~ Matt. 20:20-23, “The mother of the sons of Zebedee . . . said to him [Jesus], ‘Command that these two sons of mine may sit, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your kingdom.’ But Jesus answered, . . . ‘You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.’” (How strange, if, as claimed, Jesus is God! Was Jesus here merely answering according to his “human nature”? If, as Trinitarians say, Jesus was truly “God-man”—both God and man, not one or the other—would it truly be consistent to resort to such an explanation? Does not Matthew 20:23 rather show that the Son is not equal to the Father, that the Father has reserved some prerogatives for himself?)

Answer 8

If you want to know why we, Jehovah's Witnesses, believe that Trinity is unbiblical, you may welcome them in your home when they visit you. It is the most effective way for you to know what we really believe. In our part it also the most effective way for us to prove that our belief is based on what the Bible teaches. What we are going to say in our visit to you is subject to your judgement. You are always free to ask during to course of our visit with you.

Answer 9

Just a few observations:



Trinitarian answers have used 1 John 5:7, a verse proven to be spurious. A fact widely known by serious students of the bible.



Bible scriptures show Jesus and his apostles emphasizing his role as the CHRIST, the son of God.

Matthew 16:13-16; John 10:36; 20:17, 30-31



The emphasis on the false trinity doctrine started a few centuries AFTER the death of Christ and his original apostles and first century christians who were directly taught by Jesus.



http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/index.htm

Answer 10

I love this question and the answer that the JW's will give you. Since it is addressed to the JW's and Trinitarians, I am going to answer it with what the Jehovah's Witnesses are taught from their leaders. Keep in mind 2 Timothy 3:16-17 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. OK, with that in mind, keep this in mind also, that the Watchtower organization claims to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave spoken of in Matthew 24:45.



Following are quotes from the Watchtower Magazine:



•"We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the 'faithful and discreet slave' organization," (Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981.)



•All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave (Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994, p. 8).



This Watchtower organization, the faithful and discreet slave, claims to be the means by which God communicates His truth to us in this world. Therefore, by deduction, what the Watchtower says is truth. Alright, let's take a look at one quote from the Watchtower.





•"From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude... They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981, p. 29)



The Watchtower says that the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and the physical resurrection of Christ are all false doctrines. Yet, the Watchtower says that if you read the Bible by itself you will end up believing these doctrines. In other words, if you read the Bible by itself, then you will become a Trinitarian, believe that Jesus is God, and believe that Jesus rose from the dead physically. Why is that? Could it be because the Bible teaches these things? So I ask the Jehovah's Witnesses, what is it in the Bible that would lead someone to this conclusion? Again, what is in the Bible that reading it by itself would lead you to believe in the Trinity, the deity of Christ, and His physical resurrection?



This quote from the Watchtower is proof that it is teaching contrary to the natural reading of the Bible and that it is controlling the beliefs of those who follow it.



Keeping in mind 2 Timothy 3:16-17, then how could one revert back to the teaching of the trinity by reading the bible alone if it does not teach it? Does this not tell us "what the bible really does teach". Interesting thought by using what the Watchtower teaches, it truly tells us that the trinity is taught in the bible and it takes an orgaization to teach differently then what the bible teaches.



Edit- Just to answer Ginosko92- Your are correct you don't need us to answer for you, neither do you need a bible to answer the question, just a watchtower publication. Thanks for proving my point. Your Watchtower teaching have proven that the Trinity is taught in the bible alone. Mainly your leaders have told us and you that if you read the bible by it self, you will return to the teaching of 100 years ago. You also tell us that "if you truly examine the REAL meaning" of the scriptures. Is that much like you guys in the meaning of Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." But you guys still say that he is a spirit creature upon resurrection. So, no thanks, I do not want your "REAL meaning" of the scriptures, I'll take the meaning provided by God's Word, the bible over your oraganization any day or any time! If you were truely a bible student then you would know that God's words trump all.

Answer 11

There are many scriptures that disprove belief in the Trinity, but let's just focus on a few.



1) When Mary was told by Gabriel that she was to become the mother of Jesus she was told that he would be called the son of the most high and that God would give him the throne of David his father. If he was God why would Gabriel have called him "son of" instead of just referring to him as the most high. (Luke 1:32)



2) Psalms 83:18 says "That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, YOU ALONE ARE THE MOST HIGH over all the earth." The KJV obviously words it differently, but even it acknowledges in the aforementioned verse that there is one God and His name is Jehovah.



3) Jesus prayed to his Father that His Father's will and not his be done. If Jesus is God who would be worthy of being his father and whose will would be more important? If you are of the trinitarian persuasion that says that they are three Gods who are equal, then why would Jesus need to be in submission to his father? (Luke 22:42)



4)Jesus himself mentions that God sent him and refers to them as being separate. Since Jesus was perfect and taught only truth wouldn't he have been deceptive by not sharing (even with his close friends, the apostles) that he was God if he were?(John 3:16; John 17:3)



5)Jehovah actually spoke so that others could hear and know that Jesus was His son. So from the voice of the Sovereign of the Universe we have definitive proof that that He and His son are two different people and the son is in submission so there is no trinity. (Mark 1:9-11)



If you want to know more about what the Bible Really Teaches I suggest going to Watchtower.org and requesting a free home Bible study.

Answer 12

It's a matter on which fact you base your doctrine. Trinitarians try to construe the following verses as a trinity:



(John 1:1) In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

(John 10:30) I and the Father are one.



In the first attempt it seems, these verses say that Jesus and God is the same being. But let's take a wider look at the Bible:



(John 17:11) Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are.



"To be one" means obviously thinking in the same way, behave in the same manner. But a trinitarian conceals John 17:11 when defending the trinity.



And John 1:1? We need to know, that the Koine Greek was a very detailed language. The first word for "god" is not the same as the second word of "god". In Koine it is written: "ton theon" (the God) and "theos" ("god" or "a god"). Every Hellenist can tell you that you cannot swap the first "god" and the second "god" because they are not equal.



In fact John 1:1 means:

(John 1:1) In [the] beginning the Word (Jesus) was, and the Word was with [the] God (ton theon), and the Word was a god (theos).



So Jesus was a devine being, a god, but not God Almighty. That's what the Bible tells us all over the way.



Then we have to consider how the Trinity doctrine comes into existence. It was melted into Christendom in 325 c. e. at Nicea, 225 years after the death of the last Apostle. Neither Jesus nor the Apostles did teach this doctrine. But the Bible prophesies an apostasy after the death of the Apostles.



(2 Thes 2:3) Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.



(Acts 20:29-30) I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.



(Matthew 13:24-30) Another illustration he set before them, saying: “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. 25 While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. 26 When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. 27 So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ 29 He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, YOU uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”



So that is the fact: God is no trinity. His name is Jehovah (Ex. 3:15) and Jesus is his son (Col. 1:15-17).



--------

Edit: The scripture Shay mentioned in his answer, 1. John 5:7, is a fake! Check several Bible translations, this scripture was added centuries later to mislead people. If Shay knew it, he'd lied to you. If he didn't knew, he was lied to. Please check different Bible translations to gain the truth.

Answer 13

Trinitarians universally describe their doctrine as a mystery. However, the only mystery relative to the Godhead is the manifestation of God in flesh, and even that has been revealed to those who believe. A mystery in Scripture is a divine truth previously unknown but now revealed to man.



Certainly our finite minds cannot understand all there is to know about God but we can understand the simple truth that there is one God. God may transcend human logic, but He never contradicts true logic, nor is He illogical. He emphasizes His oneness so strongly in the Bible that He has dispelled any possible confusion or mystery on this issue.



The Bible never says that the Godhead is an unrevealed mystery or that the question of plurality in the Godhead is a mystery. Instead, it affirms in the strongest terms that God is one. Why resort to an explanation that the Godhead is an incomprehensible mystery in order to protect a man-made doctrine with nonbiblical terminology when the Scriptures plainly give us a simple, unambiguous message that God is absolutely one? It is wrong to state that the Godhead is a mystery when the Bible clearly states that God has revealed the mystery to us.



Father, Son, and Holy Ghost do not imply three separate persons, personalities, wills, or beings. They can only denote different aspects or roles of one Spirit-being - the one God. They describe God's relationships to man, not persons in a Godhead. We use Father to emphasize God's roles as Creator, Father of spirits, Father of the born-again believers, and Father of the humanity of Jesus Christ. We use Son to mean both the humanity of Jesus Christ and God as He manifested Himself in the flesh for the purpose of man's salvation. We use Holy Ghost to emphasize God's active power in the world and among men, particularly His work in regeneration.







http://www.newlifeupc.org/wp-content/uploads/online-books/oneness/One-Top.html

Answer 14

Genesis and the Gospel by the disciple John give us the Holy Scriptural evidences.

God said to Moses on Genesis: In the beginning the Earth was in disorder and empty and The

Holy Spirit of God moved over the waters. after god says "Make us the man" , and this is the

God's testimonial of the presence of the Son, Savior and Lord jesus in the creation work, it is

written in Proverbe of the King Salomonin a prophetical revelation of the texts, with Holy Ghost

jumps in the lecture, like His revelation of the book of Isaiah, saying:



Jehovah posess me in the principle, in the principles of antiquity, before His works,

Eternally I had the prince place, from the beginning, before the Earth, when He formed the heavens

I was there; when The Father trace the circle over the face of the vacuum, when He put the sea law

for the waters doesn't traspass His commandment; cuando He stablished the land fundaments,

with Him I was ordering all, and I was his delight all the day (Cross ref The Jesus Holy Ghost

baptist), having his recreation all the time. I rejoice with the living part of the Earth; my delights are

with the sons of men. Now, sons, listen to me, and happy in God everybody that guard my ways.

Attend my counsel, be wise, and doesn't depise them. Happy in God the man who listens,

guarding to my gates (the hearts, cross ref: Rev 3:20) each day, guarding to my poles of my gates

(Our hearts must be stay as close as God and Jesus Christ as be posible to us). Beacuse man

who find to me, find the life (cross ref. John 3:16, John 14: 6), he will reach the favor of Jehovah.

(The salvation, eternal life and God's presence and blessings in his life, cross ref. John 3:16,

Matthew 28.20, 1st. letter to Corinthians 2:9). Holy Spirit guided lecture on Proverbs 8:22, 23, 27-36). More biblical evidences are:

Jesus had spoken: I and the Father are One. John 10:30.

God is Spirit. John 4:24.

Answer 15

NOTE: All Scriptures quoted from the KJV



In John 10:30 Jesus said: "I and my Father are one." Trinitarians think that proves their dogma, but if it does, them all Christians would be part of the trinity. In John 17:11, 21, & 22 Jesus said "... that they may be one, even as we are one."



BUT then it would no longer be the trinity; it would now be the polyinity or multinity.



Another point: In this same passage in John 10:30-36, Jesus was already in trouble with the Jews; he would've been no worse off to go ahead and admit he was God if in fact he was God; it was the perfect opportunity. Instead, what did Jesus say? He said: "... I said 'I am the Son of God?'"



Yet another point: Does God have a God? Even after his return to heaven, Jesus in one verse alone mentions 4 times that there is one whom he calls "my God."



NOTE Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."



One last point: Please harmonize Luke 1:32 with Psalm 83:18.

Answer 16

Jesus taught his disciples to pray: “Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.” Our heavenly Father, whose name is Jehovah, is described in the Bible as being superior to his Son. For example, Jehovah is “from everlasting to everlasting.” But the Bible says that Jesus is “the firstborn of every creature.” That Jehovah is greater than Jesus, Jesus himself taught when he said: “My Father is greater than I.” (Matthew 6:9; Psalm 90:1, 2; Colossians 1:15; John 14:28, King James Version) Yet, the Trinity doctrine holds that the Father and the Son are “equally God.”

The Father’s superiority over the Son, as well as the fact that the Father is a separate person, is highlighted also in the prayers of Jesus, such as the one before his execution: “Father, if you wish, remove this cup [that is, an ignominious death] from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.” (Luke 22:42) If God and Jesus are “one in essence,” as the Trinity doctrine says, how could Jesus’ will, or wish, seem different from that of his Father?—Hebrews 5:7, 8; 9:24.

Furthermore, if Jehovah and Jesus were the same, how could one of them be aware of things of which the other was not? Jesus, for instance, said regarding the time of the world’s judgment: “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father.”—Mark 13:32.





Jesus Christ further deserves honor because he is Jehovah’s chief angel, or archangel. On what basis do we reach that conclusion? Well, the prefix “arch,” meaning “chief” or “principal,” implies that there is only one archangel. God’s Word speaks of him in reference to the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. We read: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16) This archangel has a name, as we read at Jude 9: “When Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: ‘May Jehovah rebuke you.’” In not running ahead of Jehovah by daring to bring judgment against the Devil, Jesus thus honored his heavenly Father.

Answer 17

Big Guy, Unsilenced Lioness,



we don't need you to answer questions for us. We are capable of doing our OWN research, that's what REAL students of the Bible do, we don't need your help. I assume that you both are trinitarians, so present your arguments from your prospective to support YOUR doctrine, not from ours.



***Doctrine of the Trinity***



We don't belive in the Trinity because it is not Scriptural. Trinitarians can continue to use Scriptures to support their doctrine but at the end of the day if you truly examine the REAL meaning of them you will see that there is no doctrine of the Trinity. Since Jehovah instituted is own people he taught them that he is ONE ( Deut 6:4)

Paul reiterates AGAIN there is ONE God, and that is the FATHER (1Cor 8:6)

Jesus himself prayed to his Father calling him the ONLY true God (John 17:3)



But we can go all day long to pull out Scripture after Scripture after Scripture and get no where. Why? Because the real Jesus says that no one comes to him unless the Father draws such one (John 6:44) Jehovah knows the intentions of our hearts and our real motives for seving him, so it is really up to him who truly is his follower or not!

Answer 18

Jehovah states in NO uncertain language in Isaiah in particular that there is NO other God. That HE ALONE made everything. That HE ALONE is the Rock of Salvation, the Saviour. That HE Alone is judge.



So if Jesus is all of these things, too- did Jehovah lie or mislead to make those statements? OH just kidding- I didn't do it alone- I used "jesus"...this angel...



Here is a page of verses and comparisons: http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

Answer 19

Anyone wanting to know the truth about the Trinity doctrine (the origins etc) can do independent research & they will find that it is unscriptural & has pagan origins.

Unfortunately, many Trinitarians refuse to do this because they hold this man-made doctrine close to their heart. It's hard to give up for them.

However, if we want to know the truth of the bible then we must independently research such things because if they are not from God, then he is displeased with them & finds them unacceptable.



Matthew 24:36 shows that Jesus cannot be God because Jesus didn't know something that the Father knew.

"Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father"



They are not even equal

John 14:28

"YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am"



And John 1:18 shows that no man has seen God AT ANY TIME.

Many saw Jesus .... so he cannot be God.

"No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him"



John 17:3 tells us to take in knowledge of two persons (God & the Son)... no mention of the holy spirit at all.

"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ"



~ ~

When Jesus said "I and the Father are one" the Greek word there used means "in unity" or have the same purpose.



For example..

In 1 Corinthians 3:5-9 we see how Paul says that he planted & Apollos watered (the seed of truth).

Verse 8 says "Now he that plants and he that waters are one"



Did Paul mean that he & Apollos were the same person?

Of course not.... but they had the same purpose.

Its the same with Jehovah & Jesus

Answer 20

Greetings,



The evidence from the Inspired Word of God itself makes it irrefutable that Jesus is not equal to Almighty God.



On the other hand, there is not one clear verse in the Bible that teaches that God is made up of three persons equal in power, knowledge or eternity. Even Trinitarian scholars realize that there is not one scripture which teaches the Trinity and that it was a later addition to True Christianity:



Hastings Dict. of The Bible -Revised edition by F.C. Grant & H.H. Rowley:

"The doctrine of God as existing in three persons and one substance is not demonstrable by logic or by scriptural proofs."



A Short History of Christian Doctrine; Bernhard Lohse:

“As far as the New Testament is concerned, one does not find in it an actual doctrine of the Trinity. “



Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics:

"At first the Christian faith was not Trinitarian...It was not so in the apostolic and sub-apostolic ages, as reflected in the N.T. and other early Christian writings."



The Encyclopedia Americana:

“Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”(1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.



The Story Of Civilization Part III -Will Durant:

"Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it...from Egypt came the idea of a divine trinity."



"Anyone who can worship a trinity and insist that his religion is a monotheism can believe anything."-Robert A. Heinlein



Thus, the testimony of the Bible and of history makes clear that the Trinity was unknown throughout Biblical times and for several centuries thereafter. It is not a Biblical teaching. Thus any scripture used to prove this doctrine has been taken out of context and is not in harmony with the rest of Scripture.





In fact, every argument and “scriptural” evidence presented by Trinitarians demands ignorance from their hearers regarding Scriptural terms, context and Hebrew and Greek grammar and also must force a later meaning into Scripture (anachronism). By necessity Trinitarian arguments must encourage logical fallacies in order to be effective. As a result they cause Scripture to contradict itself.



In my experience these arguments fall into several categories: Scriptures are used in such a way that demands an ignorance of Greek and Hebrew grammar, ignorance of the context, or a reliance on poor translations (e.g., Jn.1:1; 8:58; 10:30). Their "proof" texts are known to be spurious (1Tim.3:16; 1Jn.5:7). Or their texts are grammatically vague, and so at most allow two equally valid translations (Rom.9:5; Tit.2:13).





On the other hand, there are hundreds of Scriptures which explicitly state that Jesus is inferior to Almighty God. For example:



Jesus has a *God* over him (Mic.5:4, Jn.20:17, Rom.15:6, Rev.3:12). Can Almighty God have a God? Anyone who is said to have a God over him must be less than Almighty!



Scriptures show that Jesus did not know what Almighty God knew on earth or in heaven (Mk.13:32, Rev.1:1; Mat 20:23).



He always had to be *given* power or authority from a superior! (Mt.28:18; 11:27, Jn. 5:22; 17:2; 3:35; 2Pet.1:17).



He could not "save" himself (Jn.12:26-27, Heb.5:7-10).



He could not do anything on his own and he can only speak what he was "taught" by the Father (Jn. 5:19; 6:38; 8:28). He was not eternal God but was "begotten" (Jn. 1:18).



How could the Father command him to do anything (Jn. 12:49; 14:31; 15:10; 12:49; 10:18.)



Jesus identifies himself as the one "sent" by a superior, he did not come of his own accord (Jn.8:16,29,42,). This superior is identified as "Father" and "God" and is shown to be Jehovah (Jn.8:54). Is not the sender superior to the one sent? (Jn.13:16).





Explicit scriptures show that Jesus was less than Almighty God at every point of his existence (Jn. 14:28; 20:17; Mk.13:32; 1Cor.15:27,28; Rev.3:2,12). At the highest position he will ever attain, Jesus is still "subject" to *GOD* the same way we are "subject" to him.



If Jesus were equal to Almighty God why was he not powerful enough to subject things to himself? (1Cor.15:27, Eph.1:17,22, Hb.1:3).



As you can see, the Scriptures put so many limitations on our Lord that it is impossible to place him in an Almighty position. Every thing he does is done only because his God and Father *allows* him to do them. No one has to (or can) give The Almighty God such power or authority. If these things were said of Jehovah the Almighty God they would be blasphemous.





When we listen to what the Scriptures are saying they are very clear in telling us that Jesus cannot be equal to Almighty God. The Bible never contradicts nor confuses with incomprehensible doctrines like the trinity.







IF JESUS IS ALMIGHTY GOD...

1. Then how could he be WITH God (ho theos)? (Jn.1:1)

7. Then why would he have to be GIVEN any power and authority? (Mt.28:18; 11:27, Jn. 5:22; 17:2; 3:35; 2Pet.1:17)

8. Then why did he have to LEARN anything? (Heb.5:8, Jn.5:19; 8:28)

9. Then why is speaking against him not as bad as speaking against the Holy Spirit? (Mt.12:31,32, Lk.12:10)

11. Then why did he have to be EXALTED to Leader and Savior? (Ac.5:31)

12. Then how could he be EXALTED and GIVEN a higher name than he had? (Philp.2:9-11, Heb.1:2-4)

13. Then why did he have to be GIVEN life in himself? (Jn.5:25,26)

14. Then how can the father be greater than him? (Jn.14:28)

15. Then why did he worship the father? (John 4:22)

16. Then why can he not do anything on his own? (John 5:19; 6:38)

17. Then why would he pray to anybody? (Lk.22:44, Jn.17:1,2, Heb.5:7)

18. Then why does Scripture say he is PART OF Creation? (Col.1:15)

19. Then how could he be a "BEGOTTEN God"? (Jn. 1:18)

20. Then how can he be God's servant? (Act.4:26,27,30)

21. Then how could he receive strength from an angel? (Lk.22:43)

22. Then how could he be a MEDIATOR between GOD and man? (1Tim. 2:5)

23. Then why is "God head of Christ just as Christ is head of man"? (1Cor.11:1)

24. Then how can he be GOD's IMAGE? (Col.1:15 , Heb.1:3)

25. Then why is he called the AGENCY (dia) of creation and not the Originator (ek)? (1Cor.8:6, Jn. 1:1-3, Pro. 8:30, Heb. 2:10, Col.1:15,16)

26. Then why did Jesus say GOD was "good" in a way that Jesus was not? (Mark 10:18)

27. Then why does he have an archangels voice instead of God's voice? (1Thes.4:16)

28. Then why is the only "worship" given to him the same given to humans? (Heb. 1:6, cf. Mt. 18:26, Rev. 3:9 - "Proskuneo")

29. Then why is he never given worship that only God receives? (Mt. 4:10 -"Latreuo")

31. Then why did Steven see two separate entities, GOD and Jesus, and not just one God or three persons? (Acts 7:55)

32. Then how could he be seen at GOD's right hand? (Lk.22:69, Acts 7:55, Rm.8:34)

33. Then why would he have to RECEIVE a revelation from God? (Rev.1:1)

34. Then why is he called God's "begotten" Son before he came to earth? (Jn. 3:16, Gal.4:4, 1Jn.4:9)

35. Then how could he have a FATHER? (Jn 20:17)

36. Then how could he come in flesh? (1Kings 8:27, Acts 17:24,25)

37. Then how could he appear before GOD? (Heb.9:24)

38. Then how could he be born? (Col.1:15)

39. Then why can we see him? (Jn.1:18)



Bonus question:



40. Then why did Trinitarians have to add and subtract from Scripture to support the Trinity? (1Jn.5:7,8, 1Tim.3:16, Jn.1:18, Ac.7:59, Rev.22:18,19).





Yours,



BAR-ANERGES

Answer 21

The incorrect doctrine of the trinity was pieced together by individuals who claimed to learned men between the 2nd and 4th century AD.

This false belief was finally formalised in the document we know as The Nicene Creed.

This Creed was formulated under the guidance of Christian Roman Churchmen of the time. Who were trying to integrate the Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek along with other mythologies and religious beliefs, so that Christianity became acceptable to heathen people there armies had subdued.



God is the Father of Jesus.

Jesus is the son of God.

The Holy Spirit is the power by which God does things.



They are 3 separate entities, with 2 of them having a Father Son relationship.



If you look at the John 10:30 Where Jesus says "I and my Father are one" in context of John 10:23-38 KJV you will see that Jesus is saying God his father and he, Jesus, His son are one in purpose.



You should also consider a similar statement made by Jesus found in



John 17:21-23 KJV

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.



Jesus clearly states that we are we are all “one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee,”

To claim on this basis that we are part of God in the same way as Jesus is said to be part of the trinity, is clearly as wrong as saying "I and my Father are one" proves the Jesus and God are the same being.



The Apostle Paul confirms that equality did not exist between God and Jesus when he wrote to the church in Corinth that at the end of time Jesus would be subject to his Father..



1 Corinthians 15:28 KJV

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.



The Apostle Peter pointed out the mankind would adjust Bible teaching when he wrote the following in His Epistle –



2 Peter 1:19-21 and 2 Peter 2:1-2 MKJV

19 We also have a more sure Word of prophecy, to which you do well to take heed, as to a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the Daystar arises in your hearts,

20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture came into being of its own private interpretation.

21 For prophecy was not borne at any time by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke being borne along by the Holy Spirit.

1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who secretly will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing on themselves swift destruction.

2 And many will follow their pernicious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be evil spoken of.

Answer 22

The trinity cannot be proven. We can establish that Jesus said before Abraham was I am.

We can establish that he forgave sins.We can prove that Jesus said he needed to go to the Father so the Holy Ghost or comforter would come and teach of all things. We can even point out Biblical references to God being referred to as Elohim which means plural sons of god.

As to your question there is no trinity mentioned .

Answer 23

Jesus is not his own father Jehovah as trinitarians teach



Trinitarians teach that Jesus is the God almighty of the universe and at the same time Son of the God almighty of the universe....if both statement are true and there is only one God almighty then Jesus is his own father.



trinitarians teach that Jesus is God almighty...but never say God almighty is Jesus ....Why???



Funny....1 John 5:7 was added to KJV bible...in ancient manuscript that text doesn't exist...google it...



If I need to quoted an added verse to the bible I would be really nervous thinking if is true that statement



according to the bible all angels are divines beings in the book of Psalms 82:6 and Job 1:6 and 2:1

Answer 24

LOL.



One man's PROOF is another man's FOLLY.



There is no proof one way or the other. Choose what to believe. Live in peace.