Based on these quotes by the founding fathers, was the US founded by Christians as a "Christian Nation"

Question

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect."
--James Madison

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
--Thomas Jefferson

"All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
--Thomas Paine

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
--Benjamin Franklin

"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."
--John Adams

The First Amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

Answer 1

Let's look at the whole Thomas Jefferson quote

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. BUT may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." –Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823 HMMM do away with this artificial scaffolding (comparing Jesus to Jupiter) and restore us to the "primitive and genuine doctrines of THIS MOST VENERATED REFORMER OF HUMAN ERRORS" that would be Jesus.

There is no record of the John Adams quote found until 1932. And it's proven by many historians to be fabricated when you look at the whole statement, and see if you can't find how historians view it as a fabrication. "The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole carloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."



Instead of responding to the rest, knowing they are misquoted, and like what a lot of people do with the Bible, taken completely out of context, I will give you a quote from John Jay, the First Supreme Court Justice and a contributing writer to the Constitution, "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest, of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

Answer 2

You should stop spreading your hateful misquoting rhetoric. You are worse than the Christian who will take a Bible quote, take it out of context, and twist it to meet their needs. All you are doing is making yourself look like an uneducated, mindless lemming, by not doing the full research yourself. Are you one of those that will frown upon a Christian for being a small minded imbecile because they won't do the research themselves and will only spout off what their book says? Then you turn around and do the same thing by misquoting what the founding fathers actually said. Why don't you do the research, instead of having these people do it for you. All it does it make you seem lazy and unintelligent.

I know your type, you'll scan these answers and for fear of the public proving you wrong, you will select an answer that agrees with your line of BS. I dare you to let this question go to the voters and see if others share your belief, or if you're full of dog doo.



BTW - for those who think the George Washington quote is false, go to the Smithsonian website and look up his farewell address and read the whole thing. Oh, there it is. I don't think the Smithsonian would have something that would be false, do you?

Cars weren't invented until the late 1800's, the very late 1800's. Roughly 80 years after Adams death. Never would he use the term carload nor would he know what a carload was.

Answer 3

None of your quotes are really relevant except for the last one.



Men can write down their opinions and their opinions can change. Ben Franklin when younger was a devout Christian and had extensive religious training. As he got older he became less and less enthralled with Christianity and died a deist or agnostic.



We can pick and choose the writings of people, but still all you would have is the attitude of an individual at a certain point in time.



However the Constitution is the highest law of the land and what it does say is that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". There is absolutely no mention in the Constitution that we are a Christian nation and no justification in saying that it is implied. If the framers of our government wished to say that this nation or its laws are Christian either by nature or model, they could of, but they specifically did not. It could not be clearer.

Answer 4

George Washington said that the US was "in no way founded upon Christian values."



Also, Thomas Jefferson said that whether his neighbor worshipped no god or twenty, it didn't pick his pocket or (something else)...it was a good quote, but I don't remember it exactly.



If there isn't freedom for all, there's freedom for none. Christianity has benefitted tremendously from the religious freedom demanded by the Founding Fathers.



Religious freedom is free will transformed into national law. Whether you believe free will comes from some divine source or from human nature, everyone has it, and this country, fortunately for EVERYONE, was founded with free will written into its earliest treatises, speeches, and laws.



The US wasn't founded as a Christian nation, or as any other kind of religious nation. And it's a Good Thing.

Answer 5

There's always the Treaty of Tripoli, article 11, that states the U.S. was in no way founded as a Christian nation. It was approved by President Adams and the Secretary of State, and read on the floor of the Senate in it's full text. Then it was unanimously approved. This was in 1797. I do not presume now to know any different than what several of the founding fathers stated quite plainly within 20 years of the founding of the nation.

Answer 6

I will start with The First Amendment You did not complete

the sentence. "Congress shall make no law respecting an extablishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging he freedom of speeech, or of the press; or the right of he people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Now continue reading that paragraph. Amemdment 1 apply to the states and forbids state action which would violate the rights of religion, speech, press, and assembly, covered by Amendment 1. All they are saying here is that in many countries, some one religion has been made the official, or "established," church, and has been supported by the government. Congress is forbidden to set up or provide in any way for such as established church in the United States.



That is why so many Irishman and scot Irish came to the United States, for freedom of religion. They did not want to worship according to the Kings religion (religion controled by the government).



This is what is being said in Amendment 1. We have a right to worship God according to our conscious not the governments



Thomas Jefferson - I can't find what you quoted any where. But I am sure you did not quote all of it. Thomas Jefferson, In the Declaration of Independence, 1st and 2nd paragraphs he speeks of the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God. The next paragraph - We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal (what, created) not evolved?



Now the declaration of Independence was signed by all the others you have quoted, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams but not Thomas Paine.



Thomas Paine was a famous pamphleteer, agitator, and writer on politics and religion. He died a social outcast. He was in prison in France for 10 months. While in prison he worked on Age of Reason. It stated his views on religion, and many peope called it the "atheist's bible." Paine believed in God but disagreed with many of the church's teachings. His unorthodox views on religion made him one of the most hated men of his time.

Answer 7

It is somewhat semantical. The early US was mostly Christian and some enlightenment/Deist influence together.... but more Christian than enlightenments



Most of the people you are quoting, notably Jefferson, would have substantial enlightenment influence which is humanistic in nature and not Christian. Some also modified their views during their lives.



cl early even Jefferson declared days of prayer and used governmental moneys for evangelization of the Indians... so even the more enlightenment types had Christian leanings... ( additionally... there was a complicating factor of the treaty of Triploly where Moslem pirates captured a US ship and part of the treaty wording was designed to rescue the captured shipmen where the pirates felt justified in holding a ship of any Christian nation.... more semantics and diplomasy at work... doesn't mean the US wassn't forged in mostly Christian world views)

Answer 8

Based on these quotes, no. The one quote from Jefferson is the only one referring to Christianity in a positive light, and then he makes no reference to it in terms of government or the US. The founding fathers believed in separation of church (religion) and state (government).



Many of the founding fathers happened to be Christian- in fact, they probably all were- and thus they used a lot of "Christian" terminology. This was also just the way things were done at the time. It probably didn't occur to them not to refer to "God" for these reasons, not because they wanted the US to be a Christian state.



(FYI Thomas Paine was not a founding father per se although he did inspire many parts of the American Revolutionary movement and the resulting American government.)

Answer 9

"I am going to answer FIRST with an essay and I credit the author and give a link to his web site : "I frequently hear Christians claim that the United States is a Christian nation, or that the Founding Fathers intended us to be a Christian nation. When they bother to offer evidence it's usually some McCarthy-era addition to our pledge or our money, or some quote (often bogus) from a speech or a letter by one of the Founding Fathers.

Think about this for a second: If you were starting a Christian nation, how would you go about it? Would you make oblique references to "Great Powers" and "Guiding Hands" in obscure speeches and letters, or would you fill your foundational documents with references to Jesus Christ and the Bible?



The Founding Fathers were brilliant men. They spent months and months working on the Constitution. They were very, very careful about what they wrote, discussing and debating every passage at great length. It seems to me that if they had intended this to be a Christian nation they would have said so somewhere in the Constitution. The Founding Fathers had no reason to be vague. There was no ACLU, no "Activist judges." If they had wanted a Christian Nation they could have written:



God Almighty, in Order to form a true Christian Nation, establish Divine Justice, insure adherence to His Laws, provide for the defense of His Church, promote His Word, and secure His Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, has led us to ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Instead they wrote:



We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The words "Jesus" "Christ" "Bible" "God" and even "Creator" appear nowhere in the Constitution ("Endowed by their Creator" is in the Declaration of Independence.) Just how stupid would someone have to be to create a Christian nation then forget to mention Christ in the Constitution?



Also notice that nobody ever asks what the Founding Mothers might have said. There were no Founding Mothers. The Founders were all men; White men, many of them slave owners. White male slave owners who may or may not have been Christians, but explicitly forbade any kind of religious test for office. In other words, you have a far stronger case if you'd like to argue that the Founding Fathers intended us to be a racist and sexist nation.



I think you can make a good case that some or even most of the Founding Fathers were Christians, but it's absurd to think that they wanted to impose that belief on the nation, and even more absurd to imagine we should be bound by their prejudices



Copyright © Rev. James Huber



Check out more of his writing at www.jhuger.com/



NOW, my own personal views of this issue:



The Treaty of Tripoli that has already been mentioned here, was also one of the FIRST treaties the new nation framed with another country and in it they anounced to the world that this country was not founded on the Christian religion. The treaty was FRAMED during George Washington's administration and voted on unanimously in Adams administration. It was published in major newspapers without any mention of protest or debate. Clearly, the citizens and framers of the newly formed government of the United States of America knew at that time their government was not framed or founded on Christianity but on the principles of freedom of religion for all.



I do not debate that the majority of these men were Christian. I simply note that they were wise to create a secular government that was not founded on or supporting any one religion.



If you claim otherwise, in essence you're calling those Christian men liars because most of them signed that document that declared it wasn't founded on Christianity.



Which is it?

Were the framers of our government liars to the world in that treaty and did all the citizens go in cahoots with that lie and not protest it?

OR>>Did the citizens understand the Constitution to mean what it says and that our government was founded on priciples of freedom and democracy rather than on the dogma of any religion?



I believe the obvious from the documentary evidence where it is important, our Constitution and our laws and treaties.



This nation was not founded as a Christian nation. We have a majority populace who declare religious belief to be Christian. There is a difference.

Answer 10

It's better to read their biographies to see exactly how much contempt they had for Christianity. They had alot of contempt for it. And, rightly so because of the incredible amount of religious intolerance and bigotry going on in europe at the time. Their entire philosophy was built around the philosophies of the Enlightenment, not Christianity. People need to read their history because the ones that think our founders were Christian sound as ignorant as it gets. Read biographies and actual letters of these people. It's all in there.

Answer 11

No, clearly the US was established as a secular nation and your quotes demonstrate that. Religious freedom was very rare in the 18th century. Most people were forced to accept the religion of the king, or the local duke. England had achieved a small measure of religious tolerance, in part because they were weary of civil wars and religious purges whenever they changed monarchs.



William Penn helped transplant this religious tolerance to America, when he founded the colony of Pennsylvania. So did Roger Williams with Rhode Island. Today religious freedom remains one of our most important rights.



I don't believe any of the minute-men who fought in the revolution were fighting for Christianity. They were fighting for liberty. Because they won, and framed our constitution the way they did, none of us have to fight for religious freedom today.

Answer 12

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here." –Patrick Henry, 1776-1777



1493 Columbus – 1st island he landed on he named “San Salvador” = means “Savior”, another named Santa Maria de la concepcion, Also he plants a green and white flag with a cross (Crusader flag)

Answer 13

Have you ever heard of context?

Jefferson passed a law to make over 1000 churches through out the land.



The first amendment was to keep the government out of the church not the church out of the government.



Government supported THEOLOGY schools....

Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc ....



General court of Connecticut1639

"That God's word should be the only rule for the ordering of affairs of government of this commenwealth."



The Constitution of Connecticut1776

"The people of this state... by the providence of God... hath the sole and exclusive right of governing themselves as a free, sovereign, and independant state... and forasmuch as the free fruition of such liberties and privileges as humanity, civility, and CHRISTIANITY call for."



CONGRESS of the US May, 1854 (resolution PASSED in the house.)

The great and vital and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ.



THOMAS JEFFERSON

GOD who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of GOD? that they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever.

United States Supreme Court 1931

We are a Christian people....



U.S. Supreme court 1892 Feb 29

Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian.

Answer 14

Do these quotes nullify your premise?



"I therefore beg leave to move, that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of the City be requested to officiate in that service."

-- Benjamin Franklin



"I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare their unsatisfactoriness by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way."

--James Madison



"Schools and the means of education" (in new territories) "must encourage the religion, morality, and knowledge" [that was] "necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind."

--George Washington



"Religious service is usually performed on Sundays at the Treasury office and at the Capitol. I went both forenoon and afternoon to the Treasury."

--John Quincy Adams



"...can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have lost the only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath?"

--Thomas Jefferson



Of course, I could go on and on with other quotes, but neither of us will likely be moved from our position.

Answer 15

Hey Whitehorse, that quote by George Washington was discovered to be a fake.



George Washington was a deist, it's quite clear.

Answer 16

founded by christians, perhaps.

as an exclusively christian nation, obviously not.



they saw that there can be folly in religion, and that it could be used as a cover for evil, and therefore did not want it to rule the nation.

Answer 17

If they are good workmen, they may be of Asia, Africa, or Europe. They may be Mohometans, Jews or Christians of any Sect, or they may be Atheists.

-- George Washington

Answer 18

"AS THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT IN ANY SENSE FOUNDED ON THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION" - From Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli 1797. Unanimously ratified by the U.S. Senate and signed by President John Adams.



Most of the founding fathers were deists, likely atheists in this day in age. So no, America was not founded on any religion.

Answer 19

Most of these quotes are proof that they are about being free of organized religion..and Paine was very against organized religion!

Answer 20

I like the quote from Washington from above. There are many more like it from the founders if you want to look. I must tell you that I am always very suspicious of quotes without context. Also, I think there were more than three founding fathers.

Answer 21

and yet they put on the seal of the united states (predates the birth of our nation and is printed on the bills in your wallet) "annuit coeptus" which translates to "He (God) has blessed us with many things"



Funny how that works out, isn't it? I think these quotes are surely out of context or from an unreliable source

Answer 22

i agree with thomas paine and ben franklin.

Answer 23

Well were deists, but they were still christians nonetheless, and did not feel like imposing their religion on others.

Answer 24

Cherry picker, you can try and try to get God out but you will not suceed in doing so,

Answer 25

What about the words of George Washington, our first president and the "Father of Our Nation": “It is impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible. Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and citizens…"



Let us not also forget the words of the Supreme Court, which has said on a number of occasions, "We are a Christian nation!"

Answer 26

thou shalt not pick cherries!