Christians, can I just point out something?

Question

God gave us all free will right? That is why it is fair to punish us with hell.
And prayers are real right? Like God answers prayers and stuff and protects his followers.
Okay so when someone prays for protection, and God stops some person from murdering them or raping them then God interfered with the other person's free will.

Answer 1

Why do you speak to the third person, God?

Answer 2

Im going to add a point God is omnipotent which means he knows what is going to happen, in basic he can see the future. so when we have a decision to make God already knows what you are going to do and so you don't really have a choice at all and therefore free will is impossible.



Also omnipotence is impossible because it creates a lot of paradoxes which are logical impossibilities. for example can God create a boulder so heavy even he cannot lift it? if he can not create a rock so heavy that he cant lift then there is something he cannot do and therefore not omnipotent and if he can create a rock so heavy even he cannot lift it then again there is something he cannot do. omnipotence is also logically impossible. when faced with the evidence we are forced to conclude, of course assuming there is a God for the sake of argument that:



1) we do not have free will and there is a God and an evil one at that

2)we do have free will and there is no God

3)If there is a God then he is not omnipotent

4)since we have proved number 3 to be true he either can or cannot see the future. we have to assume God can see the future from what we can read from the bible and therefore we cannot have freewill and God is more like a tyrannical overlord than an all loving being since we do not have a choice to not be an atheist and he will send us to hell.



all the above assuming a God does exist. Logic and religion don't mix.



EDIT:

@checkmate the dictionary defines free will as "The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion." notice how it says "ACT"? maybe research before posting. checkmate.

Answer 3

Don't believe in hell that is eternal torment like Christians. The original "free will" concept comes from Judaism. Free will is the ability to choose to connect to the Eternal Source of Being, or not to.



So, in your example the murderer or rapist yes has a free will to do whatever malevolent horrible thing they want. A higher power would be the Will of God to protect from evil and to attract only good things. That person must be immersed in the Will of God itself for that protection to work. It's possible through study, prayer and meditation to develop that power.



But what we think of as 'good' and 'bad' isn't always what meets the eye and so simple. It could be a trial, a horrible time, is just what one needs to learn something. In a less than perfect world, the Spirit of the Universe can capitalize on evil by turning it for good and bringing it to a higher level by transforming it with good. Every hard time is an opportunity for this repair of the world.



Logic is linear like algebra and adding and subtracting. Sequent calculus is not linear. Spiritual knowledge is not linear either -- it's more like the calculus. Calculus is not a dumb form of math, it is more advanced than the linear variety.



(This question appears in my "Judaism" in R&S Saved Searches for some reason?. I'm Jewish and answered because the idea originated as Jewish).

Answer 4

You have revealed so many clue-less concepts you carry in just 4 lines. You don't understand what free-will is all about... nor God, nor prayer, nor "punishment for sin". Your first step just ask yourself one question and see if you can work out what the REAL answer would be with none of the stupid atheist claptrap. Assuming that God DOES exist, and using only Genesis 2, and 1John 4:16 as a guide (and I do not mean that you must take it literally), then why would He create us? (Note I am not talking about whatever method He chose to create, but just why would He do it?). When you work that one out, then come back and I can give you more.

Answer 5

The premises are false. First, you're assuming God protects from rape and murder. (He's not a real live protection spell.) That's called a miracle, because that is the exception to the rule. Most the time, the murderer or rapist murder and rape. But, no matter what happens it still falls under, Rom 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.



(And, I say that as someone who was raped as a Christian, so don't give me the traditional, "How can you be so callus" or the "But God is supposed to..." response.)



Second, you assume "free will" means our wills can let us do anything our minds want to do. Not so. Trust me. I really do want to swim to the bottom of the ocean, I will it, and yet, all logic dictates I can't.



Our will is governed by our nature. We can only will to do those things that are within our nature to do. That being said, God decreed that all that has/is/will happen happens. He's in full charge, despite our wills. No one wills to come to him, and yet some do. (Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.)



ALL things work for the good of those called by God. By logic, one can only assume that means all things work out for the bad of the others. After all, God decided to create fish. Eons later, one of those fish descendants ended up swallowing Jonah all through "free will." Our will may be free, but ultimately all works out according to God's purposes, if we like his choices or not.

Answer 6

Do you have a job? Do you really go to that job because of your free will, or because you are rewarded to go to it? So is the fact that you are paid a wage interfere with your free will? So when God place obstacles in front of someone to prevent them from doing something, that is not messing with their free will. They are making choices based upon changing circumstances.

Answer 7

Free will is not the ability to do what you want its the ability to desire whatever you want.



Look up the term "will" in the dictionary the man still had the ability to desire to rape or murder someone so his free will wasn't interfered with just the ability to carry out his will.

Answer 8

Well, provide any instance where a person has said "I was going to rape/murder... until God prevented it"

If you can't provide, you're not making a point but a hypothetical situation..

Answer 9

Lacking in logic.

That is not at all what prayer, primarily, is about.

Answer 10

"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people, otherwise there would be no religious people" -House M.D.

Answer 11

There you go with that logic stuff again...