Question:
Christians, would you be happy if you had actual, irrefutable proof that God exists?
2007-10-23 11:57:28 UTC
Well for your sake, I hope you would NOT be happy.

Because the instant you have actual, irrefutable, empirical proof that God, exists, then God becomes measurable and FINITE.

And by definition, your God is INFINITE.

So if you suddenly had proof that your God existed, you would have to give up your belief that it was God, because your God would no longer be infinite.

You would no longer be worshipping an infinite entity, but rather a finite, measurable one, which would make your God just like humans.

So if you actually "succeeded" in proving God's existence, you would actually be destroying your God in the very process.

I'm just trying to help you Christians out.
Seventeen answers:
dooder
2007-10-26 09:27:46 UTC
Hmm....let me get this straight, you claim you are "trying to help you Christians out." Who said we need help? Why would you be doing that? If this claim was true even in the least, you wouldn't spend most of your time on here asking questions and making comments that would refute the existence of God. Creation PROVES that God exists. Only a complete fool could look at something that exists and make the claim that it was all an accident and literally "came from nothing." Not to mention that science has failed when trying to make SOMETHING out of NOTHING. Oh yes, God exists my friend.
Byrl M
2007-10-23 12:06:34 UTC
I agree with Rachael H. The Bible is our proof. But not only that but there is proof of Gods existance everywhere. The Bible says that the Heavens declare the Glory of God. So every time you look at the stars, moon and sky, you know deep down that something greater made this and us.There is proof that the Bible is real that Evolutionists and atheists don't want you to know about. You should look at the research that Kent Hovine has written about. I know 100% that God exists and you can to if you want to.
some_b1tch_i_know
2007-10-23 12:18:52 UTC
I think this sounds like an answer to a question that wasn't asked. Probably because you think YOU need proof. Why do all the atheists think they need to disprove all the Christians. And if you are a true christian, Its supposed to be "Judge not..." I think everyone needs some kind of higher moral standard to live by, or else we'd all be a lot more corrupt then we already are as a society. Whether or not you believe in God, doesn't mean you don't agree in the moral lessons they teach. What's wrong with believing to love thy neighbor as thy brother? Or Tho shalt not kill? Or honor thy mother & thy father? You don't have to believe in any God, But our wolrd would be better if everyone believed in moral values such as those taught in the bible.
jake
2007-10-23 13:18:13 UTC
I can give you an actual and irrefutable proof but it does not have to be empirical.



Science cannot prove the existence of God. But science cannot disprove it either. So I think it is very unwise to ask for scientific proofs.



Philosophical proofs are very good proofs but they do not have to be scientific.



Philosophically speaking, to say "There is no God" is an example of an absolute statement. For one to be qualified of an absolute statement, one must have absolute knowledge. Another example of an absolute statement is "There is no gold in the US." For you to say that you must have searched all of the US, its territories and its inhabitants. If in your thorough search you found nothing, then you have absolute knowledge and is capable of saying "There is no gold in the US." It is the same thing with our original absolute statement. Before you say, "there is no God," you must have searched everything and everywhere that God can be found. You must have searched the sun, the planets, the moons, the other galaxies, the whole universe and all of its inhabitants. If you have not, then you are not qualified to say an absolute statement like that. i have not heard anyone who have done that so NO ONE is qualified to say "There is no God".



On the one hand, to say "There is a God" does not require you to have absolute knowledge. It is the same thing with saying "There is a gold in the US". The thing here is one have to have credibility to say that. In order for one to have credibility, one must have done their searching.



Since we just disproved the statement "There is no God". There must be one. But which one?



There is this great philosopher named Thomas of Aquino who wrote and explained the existence of God.



The Five Ways (Quinquae viae)



1. The Argument from Motion (Ex Motu)

a. Nothing can move itself

b. If every object in motion had a mover, then the first object in motion needed a mover

c. Therefore, there is an unmoved mover from whom all motion proceeds.

d. This first mover is the Unmoved Mover, called God



2. Causation of Existence (Ex Causa)

a. Some things are caused

b. Everything that is caused is caused by something else

c. Therefore, there must be an uncaused cause of all caused things.

d. This causer is what we call God



3. Contingency and Necessary Objects (Ex Contingentia)

a. Things in the universe may either exist or not exist. Such things are called contingent beings

b. Not every being can be contingent. It is impossible for everything in the universe to be contingent, as nothing can come of nothing, and if traced back eventually there must have been one thing from which all others have occurred

c. Therefore, there must be a necessary being whose existence is not contingent on any other being

d. This being is what we call God



4. The Argument from Degrees and Perfection (Ex Gradu)

a. Various perfections may be found in varying degrees throughout the universe. An example is two marble sculptures, one is beautiful than the other. Comparing these two objects, one has a greater degree of beauty than the other. This is referred to as degrees or gradation of quality.

b. These degrees of perfections assume the existence of the perfections themselves. Thomas of Aquino concluded that for any given quality (e.g. goodness, beauty, knowledge) there must be a perfect standard by which all such qualities are measured. These perfections are contained in God.



5. The Argument from Intelligent Design

a. All natural bodies in the world act for ends.

b. These objects are in themselves unintelligent.

c. To act for ends is characteristic of intelligence.

d. Therefore, there exists an intelligent being which guides all natural bodies to their ends.

e. This being we call God



Thomas of Aquino, say that there is a God. As a thinker myself, I truly believe that he is credible to say that. It has led me to believe that there is a God. But which one? Thomas of Aquino did not stop there, he wrote the whole Summa Theologica for the Catholic Church. He was a Catholic priest in the Order of Preachers in the 13th Century. He was also named St. Thomas Aquinas.



I am a Catholic. I believe in One God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I am just trying to help you out.



Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam



Edit: "Well if so, then he can't be measured by proof, because then he would no longer be immeasurable or limitless, and thus not God"



Do not absolute proofs as only empirical there are also more proofs like philosophical ones. I am talking of a philosophical proof which is knowledge. Knowledge itself cannot be measured.
Shamir Roshan
2007-10-23 12:10:35 UTC
I'm Messianic and I will tell any one that those who do truly beileve, trust and have faith in God as The Messiah and Kinsman Redeemer of all mankind do not require any proofs any person thinks they have of The Lord's existance because we KNOW and UNDERSTAND by His Faith set in our hearts that HE IS. Faith is sure and unshakeable even though this present world is corrupt, unsure and fully shakeable all around us all. Everything which can be shaken will be shaken and fall away BUT, everything which can not be shaken will remain and become even more grounded. May all peoples everywhere KNOW THIS FAITH which is Truth and Strength.
mike hughes 52
2007-10-23 12:07:14 UTC
God exists within ourselves as the higher self or as the living soul which has a long string of past incarnations and many more into the future.
2007-10-23 12:03:45 UTC
I've said it before; If any person could completely understand God that would mean that God was no greater than human understanding.



I don't seek proof. I seek truth.
?
2007-10-23 12:05:57 UTC
I do actualy... so does every one who is of The True Chriatian Faith.... We do not know The Fullness of God... God is Turly beyond mortal comprehension.... But I do know with absolute certainty that God exists...



you can not "measure" God by any standard mortal use.
slobberknocker_usa
2007-10-23 12:05:44 UTC
God is- whether I can prove it or not. He is also infinite, even if I can prove He is. All ceation is proof that He is because He created it. I believe that God is and He is infinite and I can not be swayed.
Auburn
2007-10-23 14:11:16 UTC
The Scriptures is all the proof I need, and I'm very happy with that.
Rachael H
2007-10-23 12:00:34 UTC
for starters there is proof that god exists. It's called The BIBLE. read it. it will do wonders for u. u really need help. us christians dont
batgirl2good
2007-10-23 12:02:44 UTC
I DO have proof for ME.

As for my trying to convince you, No, I wouldn't.

Atheists would never believe anyway.



Somehow I doubt you want to help any Christian with anything.
Marilyn T
2007-10-23 12:02:54 UTC
I am already happy in the knowledge that He exists. It is not up to me to prove it. That is where faith comes in you either believe or you dont.
Hogie
2007-10-23 12:03:32 UTC
Talk about circular reasoning!



You redefine "finite" to serve your own ends.



How intellectually dishonest.



.
2007-10-23 12:13:28 UTC
that Harry Potter response it outstanding, I am going to start using that right away...
2007-10-23 12:00:01 UTC
yes, yes they would, and then they would brag about it to all the Atheists in the world.
Emily H
2007-10-23 12:03:40 UTC
THE BIBLE is proof!!!!?!?!?! We dont need help u do read the bible!!!!!!!


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