Christians and Creationists - do you believe in erosion and/or plate tectonics?

Question

Christians and Creationists - do you believe in erosion and/or plate tectonics?

Answer 1

I do believe that there is massive-scale erosion and plate tectonics, and I do believe that people evolve. However, I am a Christian. Things change over long periods of time, nobody can deny that. Even within our own species, over the last fifty years, you can see evidence of evolution. Our mouths have gotten smaller (why most everyone needs their wisdom teeth pulled now, compared to not that long ago when it wasn't completely necessary) and people have been getting taller. That can't be denied, and we are evolving. The earth is changing too. Mountains are growing. Everest is getting taller and taller because of plate tectonics. Earthquakes are caused by plate tectonics. And if you're going to ask how I can be a Christian at the same time, it's because I believe that something had to put these things into motion, and nothing like this could happen by chance.

Answer 2

Darwin's Theory of Evolution is the widely held notion that all life is related and has descended from a common ancestor: the birds and the bananas, the fishes and the flowers -- all related. Darwin's general theory presumes the development of life from non-life and stresses a purely naturalistic (undirected) "descent with modification". That is, complex creatures evolve from more simplistic ancestors naturally over time. In a nutshell, as random genetic mutations occur within an organism's genetic code, the beneficial mutations are preserved because they aid survival -- a process known as "natural selection." These beneficial mutations are passed on to the next generation. Over time, beneficial mutations accumulate and the result is an entirely different organism (not just a variation of the original, but an entirely different creature).



Ok. On many levels, Darwin's theory is correct. It all connects back to the Big Bang Theory. All life, organic and not, comes from the original explosion that occured millions of years ago. Four existing forces exploded into what would later become our solar system. Gravity, the strong force, the weak force, and electromagnetism. When the explosion happened, the universe expanded, cooled, and created energy. As the temperature dropped, electrons and nuclei began to combine to form atoms, the basic building blocks of life and the cosmos as we know it, in a process known as recombination.



Now, with that being said, let's examine the Bible. In Genesis, we learn that God created the heavens and the earth. It never ONCE states HOW these things we were made. The reason is because it is not important. What we are to remember is that God Almighty, the One True God, made the heavens and the earth.



This all connects to your question about evolution.

Answer 3

No!



Plate Tectonics is the work of the devil!!



Anyways:



a. Massive-scale erosion

b. I do NOT believe in plate tectonics (well I do, but its fun to pretend...)

c. I believe in macro evolution as you call it; but I do believe that GOD created the universe and it didn't randomly explode into being. You can see macro evolution; way back fifty years ago, humans were on average about nine inches shorter than we are now... Just look at those spitfire cockpits, its like they're built for children...



Back to plate tectonics.



That theory... They said Satan would be tempting...



Lol



Oh, and by the way, 99.999% of scientists once said "The Earth is the centre of the universe". Then 0.001% of the scientists said "No, moron, its not".



Who was right?



JUST BECAUSE LOTS OF PEOPLE SAY ITS TRUE DOESN'T MEAN IT IS.



We need a book to tell us so...

Answer 4

The tectonics plates have nothing to do with evolution as they are simple part of the earth structure. We have no clear idea how old the earth really is and as far as the Genesis account of creation if people would read it correctly it is not the creation of the earth it the recreation of it. The first verse simple says that God created the heaven, the universe, and the earth and the second verse makes it clear that the earth was already here when God began to recreate it. Notice there is no account of God creating the earth only the account of Him having separating the waters so that the dry land could appear. The land was already there it was just under the water. So when did God create the Heaven and the earth the first time only God knows, but we do know what happened so that He had to recreate life on it, but that is another story for another time.

Answer 5

It may be because I'm Catholic and we tend to have more relaxed views of evolution than some other religions, but I have no trouble accepting scientific evidence in favor of it. I've always been fascinated by science, especially geology, and I don't consider it a threat to my belief in God.



How God chose to create the universe and set events into motion that led to life as we know it is something that no one will ever completely understand. I see no contradiction in the idea that perhaps evolution is the way that He chose for this planet's species to develop.

Answer 6

Yes and No. I'm a Conserative, meat eating Christian. I believe the earth is about 6000 years old, we had a global flood about 4000 years ago.

The Grand Canyon was formed in about 2 weeks as a result of receding global flood waters on their way to the Pacific. The speed of the rushing water was slowed down by cutting through the rock, and a lot of the sand and silt settled down when the water slowed and deposited the Painted Desert to the east of the Grand Canyon.

I do not know 99.85% of Earth and Life scientists, but I sincerely doubt that 99.85% of ANY GROUP OF EDUCATED PROFESSIONALS agree on an unprovable theory which many, such as myself, classify as a religious cult. Remember, there was a time when most "scientists" believed the earth was flat, and doctors thought you "cured" people by getting the "bad" blood out of them.

I DO KNOW of scientists who DISAGREE WITH evolution: http://icr.org/ http://www.answersingenesis.org/



To provide you with direct answers to your 3 part question:

a) massive-scale erosion: I didn't think this was a theory any longer. When Mt. St. Helens erupted in May of 1980 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_St._Helens It carried a lot of debris (rocks the size of greyhound busses) and rushing water and carved a canyon out of bedrock about 40 feet deep and 100 feet long in 45 MINUTES. This action was videotaped by geologists from a helicopter. I heard about this many years ago, do not doubt it, but I don't know where to view it. If I did, I would post it.

b) plate tectonics: There is NO disputing the geologic reality of these. Where I probably differ in opinion from you is their age and origin. Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God DID NOT ORIGINALLY intend for there to be friction between these plates, however: Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the FOUNTAINS OF THE GREAT DEEP broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.



The tectonic plates lost their lubrication when the fountains of the great deep were opened up, and there has since been friction, causing earthquakes. This is part of all creation groaning as a result of sin.



c) The theroy of (macro) evolution: Here I presume you are discussing vertibrates, NOT some bacteria or virus in a petri dish in a lab. This theory is not even a scientific theory. Of all the fossil evidence for every creature on earth, there is NOT ONE SHRED of physical evidence for ANY SPECIES becoming another. There have been numerous hoaxes, but don't insult my intelligence by mentioning them. Macroevolution is the Original Lie from Satan whispered to Eve in the Garden of Eden by that Old Serpent, The Father of Lies. "Ye shall be as god" or "gods".

You see, if evolution were true, then God doesn't exist, and if God didn't exist, then His laws wouldn't matter, and everyone could do whatever seems right to himself, since there is no one we have to be accountable to.

This means the Ten Commandments are irrelevant, gay marriage is ok, abortion is ok, he who dies with the most toys wins...sin itself doesn't exist.



Sorry, charlie. The Bible is completely true, God's laws matter, and every man will give an account of himself to a Holy God.

In His Service,

John the Baptist

Answer 7

There is no such thing as science because it is not mentioned in the bible. The earth is flat. The sun is a disk that revolves around it. Don't travel too far or you will fall off the edge.

Answer 8

some young earth creationists believe that the continents moved into their current positions during noah's flood, by a process somewhat like plate tectonics. unfortunately much like their ideas for the generation of biological diversity after the flood, it requires processes to occur many times faster than they do today. tectonic plates would probably melt if they were moving as fast as the creationists need them to.

Answer 9

Ever seen the grand canyon? Or the Sandreas Fault? No I SEE! Go back to YA's RB-------09-07-07, read itthen come back, and tell me just where LIFE! came from! It's high time you guys did some answering! SEE! YA SAID "CAN OCCUR! NOT DID OCCUR! then ya said THINK! Do you know anything about TIME?according to the special relativaty theory by Einstien? anytiing ya KNOW?

Answer 10

"we're saying we didnt come from a rock! "



Maybe not, but some ARE rock.



ADDENDUM



"The bottom line is that evolution will never be scientific law. It will never surpass theory. That is because in order to be proven law it must be capable of being observed and duplicated. Neither of these is possible."



Thank you for proving my point.



Why is it cretinists think theories get promoted to laws? Will they ever understand that theories are of a higher order than laws?



Finally, thanks to dmd, Theresa B, Eukanuba, et al for demonstrating, once again, the mineral premise, in typical long-winded cretinist non-sequitors.

Answer 11

no magic man did it

Answer 12

I believe God created the world, i also believe in evolution. the two can co-exists. I still hate monkeys.

Answer 13

well i do I'm not sure if others do

Answer 14

The bible it tells us that when Christ died the whole face of the earth was changed. Mountains became valleys and valleys became mountains. It makes sense to me. I'm sure those scientist are very smart, but sometimes people like me just need something to believe in. It's more of a faith then a science, but to me all those things can be explained with enough studying. I hope that answered your question!

Answer 15

The bottom line is that evolution will never be scientific law. It will never surpass theory. That is because in order to be proven law it must be capable of being observed and duplicated. Neither of these is possible.



Darwin himself admitted that the "missing links" or the transitional species have never been found and likely never will be found. One cannot find that which is not there.

Answer 16

The Mississippi delta only took a few thousand years to form so where did the rest of north America's sediment go these past millions of years?

Answer 17

None of these entities prove Evolution...that's the problem.



Everything evolutionists cite as "evidence" is true, BUT Evolution itself is a non sequitur.



The problem is that Evolutionists don't understand natural science as a philosophy, and therefore never actually question Evolution.



Science ASSUMES evolution in its philosophical parameters.

Answer 18

no

to much to fabricate to promote cohesion

as to the grand canyon, water doesn't flow up hill



it's a quiz dealing with the source of the river and the mouth



kinda funny... the grand canyon was a ditch. nothing more

oh a pretty ditch though

Answer 19

No...earth quakes are caused by God's....methane emissions...

Answer 20

yeah i'f you're trying to make christians convert this is not the way...



here let me tear your argument apart...



Step 1



first of all you have the burden of proof... not us...



therefore you must present EVIDENCE not STATISTICS of what other people believe...



look at you sources...



especially at the part where it says ,"The Gallup Organizations periodically asks the American public about their beliefs on evolution and creation."



if this isn't a hoax...



who did they poll? what was there sample size? was it random?



I can tell you that truly random polls take MILLIONS of dollars to conduct with multiple locations around the US...



since you gave me the likely scenario for evolution and crap... let me give you the scenario for the poll... THEY DID IT IN ONE CITY FOR THEIR OWN CONVINCE... PERIOD... i can almost guarantee this is true...



and since this is true the following must be true...



THE POLL IS NOT VALID...



so don't read that crap... conduct your own with the millions of dollars you have... so you can truly see...



The burden is still up to you...



Step 2



What does it matter?



WHO FREAKING CARES IF THE ROTATION OF THE EARTH WERE THE OTHER WAY... WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT STUPIDITY YOU ARE TELLING ME...



IT DOESN'T MATTER...



god doesn't think like we do...



he created the creation in seven days...



HIS DAYS COULD BE 800000 million one of our years...



HERE'S SOME PROOF FOR YOU...



OUT OF THE BEST SELLER OF ALL TIME...



Ish 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

neither are your ways my ways,"

declares the LORD.



9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth,

so are my ways higher than your ways

and my thoughts than your thoughts.



10 As the rain and the snow

come down from heaven,

and do not return to it

without watering the earth

and making it bud and flourish,

so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,



11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:

It will not return to me empty,

but will accomplish what I desire

and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.



12 You will go out in joy

and be led forth in peace;

the mountains and hills

will burst into song before you,

and all the trees of the field

will clap their hands.



Step 3



What is Important...



Jesus is Lord!!!



this is all you have to believe... you don't need to know anything else...



PROOF



John 3:16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."



Ending statement...



Believe and be saved...



it's the only way...



All hail the power of Jesus’ Name! Let angels prostrate fall;

Bring forth the royal diadem, and crown Him Lord of all.

Bring forth the royal diadem, and crown Him Lord of all.



Let highborn seraphs tune the lyre, and as they tune it, fall

Before His face Who tunes their choir, and crown Him Lord of all.

Before His face Who tunes their choir, and crown Him Lord of all.



Crown Him, ye morning stars of light, who fixed this floating ball;

Now hail the strength of Israel’s might, and crown Him Lord of all.

Now hail the strength of Israel’s might, and crown Him Lord of all.



Crown Him, ye martyrs of your God, who from His altar call;

Extol the Stem of Jesse’s Rod, and crown Him Lord of all.

Extol the Stem of Jesse’s Rod, and crown Him Lord of all.



Ye seed of Israel’s chosen race, ye ransomed from the fall,

Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all.

Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all.



Hail Him, ye heirs of David’s line, whom David Lord did call,

The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all,

The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all.



Sinners, whose love can ne’er forget the wormwood and the gall,

Go spread your trophies at His feet, and crown Him Lord of all.

Go spread your trophies at His feet, and crown Him Lord of all.



Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall

And shout in universal song the crownèd Lord of all.

And shout in universal song the crownèd Lord of all.

Answer 21

While the zebra-stripe pattern has been confirmed, drilling through the basalt adjacent to the ridges has shown that the neat pattern recorded by dragging a magnetometer above the ridge is not present when the rock is actually sampled. The magnetic polarity changes in patches down the holes, with no consistent pattern with depth. This would be expected with rapid formation of the basalt, combined with rapid field reversals, not the slow-and-gradual formation with slow reversals assumed by uniformitarians.



Physicist Dr. Russell Humphreys predicted that evidence for rapid field reversals would be found in lava flows thin enough to cool in a few weeks. He suggested that such rapid reversals could have happened during Noah's flood. Such evidence for rapid reversals was later found by the respected researchers Coe and Prvot. Their later work confirmed these findings and showed that the magnetic reversals were "astonishingly rapid."



Evidence indicates that the continents have moved apart in the past, but can today's supposed drift rates of 0.78 - 5.9 inches [ 1.98 to 14.99 centimeters] per year be extrapolated far back into the past? Is the present really the key to the past, as uniformitarians earnestly proclaim? Such extrapolation would mean that an ocean basin or mountain range would take about 100 million years to form.



The Bible does not speak directly about continental drift and plate tectonics, but if the continents were once together, as Genesis 1:9-10 suggests, and are now apart, how does that fit into a biblical view of geology with a time line of only thousands of years?



Dr. John Baumgardner, working at the Los Alamos National Laboratories (New Mexico), has used supercomputers to model processes in the earth's mantle to show that tectonic plate movement could have occurred very rapidly, and "spontaneously." This concept is known as catastrophic plate tectonics. At the time of writing, Baumgardner, a creation-scientist, is acknowledged as having developed the world's best 3-D super-computer model of plate tectonics.



The sinking ocean floor would displace mantle material, starting large-scale movement throughout the entire mantle. However, as the ocean floor sank and rapidly subducted adjacent to the pre-flood super-continent's margins, elsewhere the earth's crust would be under such tensional stress that it would be torn apart (rifted), breaking up both the pre-flood super-continent and the ocean floor.



Thus, crustal spreading zones would rapidly extend along cracks in the ocean floor for some 6,000 miles where the splitting was occurring. Hot mantle material displaced by the subducting slabs would well up, rising to the surface along these spreading zones. On the ocean floor, this hot mantle material would vaporize copious amounts of ocean water, producing a linear geyser of superheated steam along the whole length of the spreading centers (perhaps the "fountains of the great deep"? Genesis 7:11; 8:2). This steam would disperse, condensing in the atmosphere to fall as intense global rain ("and the flood-gates of heaven were opened" Genesis 7:11). This could account for the rain persisting for 40 days and 40 nights (Genesis 7:12).



Baumgardner's catastrophic plate tectonics global flood model for earth history is able to explain more geological data than the conventional plate tectonics model with its many millions of years. For example, rapid subduction of the pre-flood ocean floor into the mantle results in new ocean floor that is dramatically hotter, especially in its upper 60 miles, not just at spreading ridges, but everywhere. Being hotter, the new ocean floor is of lower density and therefore rises 3,000 to 6,000 feet higher than before and implies a dramatic rise in global sea level.



This higher sea level floods the continental surfaces and makes possible the deposition of large areas of sedimentary deposits on top of the normally high-standing continents. The Grand Canyon provides a spectacular window into the amazing layer-cake character of these sediment deposits that in many cases continue uninterrupted for more than 600 miles. Uniformitarian ("slow and gradual") plate tectonics simply cannot account for such thick continental sediment sequences of such vast horizontal extent.



Moreover, the rapid subduction of the cooler pre-flood ocean floor into the mantle would have resulted in increased circulation of viscous fluid (note: plastic, not molten) rock within the mantle. This mantle-flow (i.e., "stirring" within the mantle) suddenly altered the temperatures at the core-mantle boundary, as the mantle near the core would now be significantly cooler than the adjacent core, and thus convection and heat loss from the core would be greatly accelerated. The model suggests that under these conditions of accelerated convection in the core, rapid geomagnetic reversals would have occurred. These in turn would be expressed on the earth's surface and recorded in the so-called magnetic stripes. However, these would be erratic and locally patchy, laterally and at depth, just as the data indicate, even according to the uniformitarian scientists cited earlier.



This model provides a mechanism that explains how the plates could move relatively quickly (in a matter of a few months) over the mantle and subduct. And it predicts that little or no movement would be measurable between plates today, because the movement would have come almost to a standstill when the entire pre-flood ocean floor was subducted. From this we would also expect the trenches adjacent to subduction zones today to be filled with undisturbed late-flood and post-flood sediments, just as we observe.



Aspects of Baumgardner's mantle modeling have been independently duplicated and thus verified by others. Furthermore, Baumgardner's modeling predicts that because this thermal runaway subduction of cold ocean floor crystal slabs occurred relatively recently, during the flood (about 5,000 or so years ago), then those slabs would not have had sufficient time since to be fully assimilated into the surrounding mantle. So, evidence of the slabs above the mantle-core boundary (to which they sank) should still be found today. Indeed, evidence for such unassimilated relatively cold slabs has been found in seismic studies.



The model also provides a mechanism for retreat of the flood waters. Psalm 104:6-7 describes the abating of the waters which had stood above the mountains. Verse 8 most naturally translates as, "The mountains rose up; the valleys sank down, implying that vertical earth movements were the dominant tectonic forces operating at the close of the flood, in contrast to the horizontal forces dominant during the spreading phase.



Plate collisions would have pushed up mountains, while cooling of the new ocean floor would have increased its density, causing it to sink and thus deepen the new ocean basins to receive the retreating flood waters. It may be significant, therefore, that the "mountains of Ararat" (Genesis 8:4), the resting place of the ark after the 150th day of the flood, are in a tectonically active region at what is believed to be the junction of three crustal plates.



If an inch [2.54 centimeters] or so per year of inferred movement today is extrapolated back into the past as uniformitarians do, then their conventional plate tectonics model has limited exploratory power. For example, even at a rate of four inches [10.16 centimeters] per year, it is questionable whether the forces of the collision between the Indian-Australian and Eurasian Plates could have been sufficient to push up the Himalayas. On the other hand, catastrophic plate tectonics in the context of the flood can explain how the plates overcame the viscous drag of the earth's mantle for a short time due to the enormous catastrophic forces at work, followed by a rapid slowing down to present rates.



Continental separation solves apparent geological enigmas. For instance, it explains the amazing similarities of sedimentary layers in the northeastern United States to those in Britain. It also explains the absence of those same layers in the intervening North Atlantic ocean basin, as well as the similarities in the geology of parts of Australia with South Africa, India, and Antarctica.



Early skepticism about plate tectonics has largely evaporated because the framework has such great explanatory power. The catastrophic plate tectonics model for the flood not only includes these explanatory elements, but also accounts for widespread evidences of massive flooding and catastrophic geological processes on the continents. Future refinement of the model may also help to explain the order and distribution of fossils observed in the fossil record in the context of the Genesis flood.



The Bible is silent about plate tectonics. Many creationists believe the concept is helpful in explaining earth's history. Some are still cautious. The idea is quite new, and radical, and much work has yet to be done to flesh out the details. There may even be major modifications to the theory that increase its explanatory power, or future discoveries could cause the model to be abandoned. Such is the nature of scientific progress. Scientific models come and go, "But the word of the Lord endures forever" (1 Peter 1:25).