Question:
What do Catholics think of this?
Sola Christus
2012-01-14 00:50:45 UTC
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: ‘On him as on a rock the Church was built’...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: ‘Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,’ that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,’ and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received ‘the keys of the kingdom of heaven.’ For, ‘Thou art Peter’ and not ‘Thou art the rock’ was said to him. But ‘the rock was Christ,’ in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable (The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1).

It seems like Augustine does not consider it Church dividing.
Eight answers:
carl
2012-01-14 04:02:41 UTC
Augustine was not steadfast in his interpretation of Matthew 16:18. His quotes below show that Augustine equated the rock with Peter's faith, Peter's successors, and Peter himself. It was during his controversies with the Manicheans, Donatists, and Pelagians that he emphasized the role of Christ and identified "this rock" with Christ. In his dealings with the Manicheans, the nature of God was in the forefront; with the Donatist, it was the nature of the Church and clergy; with the Pelagians, it was the nature of grace and its originator, Jesus Christ. Augustine equated "this rock" with Christ not to downplay Peter's primacy, rather to emphasize Jesus Christ. Against all these heresies, Augustine stressed that the Church's foundation and grace rested upon a divine and not a human person. Nevertheless, Augustine remained steadfast in his understanding of Peter's primacy and the primacy of the Roman See. Augustine did not reject the Petrine interpretation, in favor of which he cites Ambrose's hymn, but leaves it to the reader to choose. Simon remains a rock, a secondary rock dependent on the Rock-Christ, for Augustine writes, 'Peter having been named after this rock '



Here are several citations from Augustine to show that he had a well developed understanding of the primacy of St. Peter and of his successors, the bishops of Rome. Let's take a look at St. Augustine's treatment of Matt 16:18 a little closer.



"Number the bishops from the see of Peter itself. And in that order of Fathers see who succeeded whom, That is the rock against which the gates of hell do not prevail."

Psalmus contra partem Donati, 18 (A.D. 393),GCC 51



"Let us not listen to those who deny that the Church of God is able to forgive all sins. They are wretched indeed, because they do not recognize in Peter the rock and they refuse to believe that the keys of heaven, lost from their own hands, have been given to the Church."

Christian Combat, 31:33(A.D. 397), in JUR,3:51



"For if the lineal succession of bishops is to be taken into account, with how much more certainty and benefit to the Church do we reckon back till we reach Peter himself, to whom, as bearing in a figure the whole Church, the Lord said: 'Upon this rock will I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it !' The successor of Peter was Linus, and his successors in unbroken continuity were these: -- Clement, Anacletus, ... In this order of succession no Donatist bishop is found."

To Generosus, Epistle 53:2(A.D. 400), in NPNF1,I:298



"When, therefore, He had said to His disciples, 'Will ye also go away?" Peter, that Rock, answered with the voice of all, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.' "

Homilies on John, Tract 11:5(A.D. 417), in NPNF1,VII:76



"And the Lord, to him to whom a little before He had said, 'Blessed thou art, and upon this Rock I will build my Church,' saith, 'Go back behind, Satan, an offence thou art to Me.' Why therefore 'Satan' is he, that a little before was 'blessed,' and a 'Rock' ?"

In Psalms, 56[55]:14[PL 36, 656] (A.D. 418),in NPNF1,VIII:223



"Peter, who had confessed Him as the Son of God, and in that confession had been called the rock upon which the Church should be built."

In Psalms, 69:4[PL 36, 869] (A.D. 418), in Butler, 251



"And if a Jew asks us why we do that, we sound from the rock, we say, This Peter did, this Paul did: from the midst of the rocks we give our voice. But that rock, Peter himself, that great mountain, when he prayed and saw that vision, was watered from above."

In Psalms, 104[103]:16(A.D. 418),in NPNF1,VIII:513



To say that the Church is built on Christ would not be against Catholic teaching. However, a proper interpretation of Mt 16:18 leads one to conclude Peter is the rock.



Jesus spoke in Aramaic. We know this because he says on the cross in Mt 27:46, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" This is Aramaic, not Greek.



In addition, Paul writes in Galations 4 times and in 1 Corinthians 4 times, Simon's new name in Aramaic. Our English bibles translate this as Cephas which is a transliteration of the Aramaic work Kepha.



And, Kepha means 'Rock'. It means the same as 'petra'. What Jesus said to Simon in Matthew 16:18 was this: ‘You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my Church.’



When you see what Jesus said in the Aramaic you understand that he was equating Simon as the Rock and that he would therefore build his Church on him signified by changing his name to Kepha and saying the words 'upon this Kepha I will build my church'.



In Aramaic you can use kepha in both places in Matthew 16:18. When translated into Greek you encounter a problem arising from the fact that nouns take differing gender endings. You have masculine, feminine, and neuter nouns. The Greek word petra is feminine. You can use it in the second half of Matthew 16:18 without any trouble.
marcus w
2012-01-14 01:01:27 UTC
I do not believe the church to be built on Peter or Jesus. The revelation of the word of God and Jesus was the word of God, is what the church is built upon. The revelation of the truth. The Catholic church killed off the true church but by preserving the written word of God the truth again produced the true church. It began with Luther and progressed through the ages of the reformation of the church. Each time more of the truth of the word of God has taken believers away from the Catholic church and denomination and has been on a steady growth toward a church that resembles the first one where the gifts of the spirit and the baptism of the holy ghost were in the church. I don't say we are there yet but look how close we are if we can just believe the word of God and not the church.
Kathryn
2012-01-14 00:58:44 UTC
Why would it cause a division in the Church?



It seems like St. Augustine wanted to offer alternatives to the reader to "let the reader decide" which is "more probable."



Edit: Thank you for clarifying. I thought you meant it would cause a division within the Catholic church, not the division of Catholics and Protestants.



When Jesus said, "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" it seems like he had given Peter the authority to build the Church and "govern" it. Whether the "rock" is Peter or Jesus, Peter still built the church around it.
Daver
2012-01-14 05:34:04 UTC
No. Peter is the Rock on which the Church is Built

Peter has the Keys of Authority over the Earthly Kingdom, the Church

Peter's Keys and Papal Succession



It's all Biblical:

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html
『  』
2012-01-14 02:03:43 UTC
They [the Early Church Fathers] were not bent on giving exegetical interpretations, but theological; and they covered the whole ground against early heresies. You would find in their writings their assertions that Peter is the head of the Church, subordinate only to Christ; that the confession or faith of Peter is the rock foundation of the Church insofar as the Church will ever be preserved in the truth through Peter. The Fathers declare also that all the Apostles are the foundation of the Church, but under the authority of Peter.



Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone. "Corner stone" is, of course, a different metaphor from "foundation stone." Christ is at once the Builder of the Church and the "corner stone" holding it together. But He built it upon the Apostles and Prophets as foundation stones, Peter being the "foundation rock" upon which Christ based the whole of His building. That is the sense of the words, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church." And such is the only interpretation sound scholarship will permit.



~~~~~

From the Douay Rheims Annotation:



And though St. Augustine sometimes refer the word (Petra) to Christ in this sentence (which no doubt he did because the terminations in Latin are diverse, and because he examined not the natural of the original words which Christ spake, not of the Greek, and therefore the Adversaries which otherwise flee to the tongues, should not in this case allege him) yet he never denieth but Peter also is the Rock and head of the Church, saying that himself expounded it of Peter in many places, and allegeth also St. Ambrose for the same in his hymn which the Church singeth. And to do we allege the holy Council of Chalcedon, Act. 1 pg. 110. Tertullian, de praescript., Origen, Ho 5 in Exo., St. Cyprian, e unit. Ec., St. Hilary, Con. 16 in Matt., St. Ambrose, Ser. 47. 68. li. 6 in c. 9. Luca., St. Hierom, Li. 1 in Jouin & c. 2 Esa & in c. 16 Hier., St. Epiphanius, In Anchor, St. Chrysostom, Ho. 55 in Mat., St. Cyril, Li. 2 c. 12. com. in Io., St. Leo, Ep. 89, St. Gregory, Li. 4 ep. 32 ind. 13., *and others: every one of them saying expressly that the Church was founded and builded upon Peter. For though sometimes they say the Church to be builded on Peter's faith, yet they mean not (as our Adversaries do unlearnedly take them) that it should be builded upon faith either separated from the man, or in any other man: but upon faith as in him who here confessed that faith.



Therefore St. Jerome to Damascus taketh this Rock not to be Peter's person only, but his successors and his Chair. (saith he) following no chief or principal but Christ, join myself to the communion of Peter's chair, upon that rock I know the Church was built. And St. Leo, Our Lord would the Sacrament or mystery of this gift so to pertain unto the office of all the Apostles, that he placed it principally in blessed St. Peter the chief of all the Apostles, that from him as from a certain head he might pour out his gifts, as it were through the whole body: that he might understand himself to be an alien form the divine mystery that should presume to revolt from the solidity or steadfastness of Peter.



Pax Christi
God'S Truth
2012-01-14 01:08:23 UTC
THOU ART PETER [MEANS LITTLE ROCK] BUT UPON THIS ROCK [JESUS' TEACHINGS] I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH does it for me !!!



.Jesus claimed to be God - John 8:24; 8:56-59 (see Exodus 3:14); John 10:30-33

2.Jesus is called God - John 1:1,14; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8

3.Jesus is the image of the invisible God - Heb. 1:3

4.Jesus abides forever - Heb. 7:24

5.Jesus created all things - John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-17

6.Jesus is before all things - John 1:1-3; Col. 1:17;

7.Jesus is eternal - John 1:1,14; 8:58; Micah 5:1-2

8.Jesus is honored the same as the Father - John 5:23

9.Jesus is prayed to - Acts 7:55-60; 1 Cor. 1:2 with Psalm 116:4; (John 14:14)

10.Jesus is worshipped - Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6

11.Jesus is omnipresent - Matt. 18:20; 28:20

12.Jesus is with us always - Matt. 28:20

13.Jesus is our only mediator between God and ourselves - 1 Tim. 2:5

14.Jesus is the guarantee of a better covenant - Heb. 7:22; 8:6

15.Jesus said, "I AM the Bread of Life" - John 6:35,41,48,51

16.Jesus said, "I AM the Door" - John 10:7,9

17.Jesus said, "I AM the Good Shepherd" - John 10:11,14

18.Jesus said, "I AM the Way the Truth and The Life" - John 14:6

19.Jesus said, "I AM the Light of the world" - John 8:12; 9:5; 12:46; Luke 2:32

20.Jesus said, "I AM the True Vine" - John 15:1,5

21.Jesus said, "I AM the Resurrection and the Life" - John 11:25

22.Jesus said, "I AM the First and the Last" - Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13

23.Jesus always lives to make intercession for us - Heb. 7:25

24.Jesus cleanses from sin - 1 John 1:9

25.Jesus cleanses us from our sins by His blood - Rev. 1:5; Rom. 5:9

26.Jesus forgives sins - Matt. 9:1-7; Luke 5:20; 7:48

27.Jesus saves forever - Matt. 18:11; John 10:28; Heb. 7:25

28.Jesus discloses Himself to us - John 14:21

29.Jesus draws all men to Himself - John 12:32

30.Jesus gives eternal life - John 10:28; 5:40

31.Jesus resurrects - John 5:39; 6:40,44,54; 11:25-26

32.Jesus gives joy - John 15:11

33.Jesus gives peace - John 14:27

34.Jesus has all authority - Matt. 28:18; John 5:26-27; 17:2; 3:35

35.Jesus judges - John 5:22,27

36.Jesus knows all men - John 16:30; John 21:17



Don't let God say to you TO HELL WITH YOU !!! Believe first !!!



Read the following and then pray in a spirit of humility before a Holy God who knows you to the core of your being !!! He wants to hear your confession of faith in Him !!! And then meditate by reading the bible !!!



Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.



Read the bible !!! The-Bible-Online.net Bibles in about 200 other Languages

http://bibledatabase.net/



[2Pet 3:3] Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

[2Pet 3:4] And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
anonymous
2012-01-14 00:57:41 UTC
tl;dr
lord dumb-butt
2012-01-14 00:53:02 UTC
what


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