Do you agree with this logical proof that atheism is NOT a natural default?

Question

An atheist might make the claim that all babies are born atheist. This is not true. They go by instinct. Their minds are not formed enough to have ANY beliefs and since atheism is a belief it is IMPOSSIBLE for a baby to be an atheist.

It would be virtually impossible to pick a word to describe what a nine month old baby believes because they HAVE NO beliefs. They are not complex enough to have beliefs.

Here's a quote from another user:

atheism as a natural default - no. It were so Atheism would have been the first religion, where as Animism seems take that place

What do you think? Do you agree or disagree?

Answer 1

The "baby born atheist by default" is a ridiculous argument



For one, it is impossible to determine what a baby "believes". Number 2, a baby is not cognitively developed to the point where it could even consider such an abstract concept



It has about as much meaning as claiming my tree in the backyard is an atheist, or that my laptop is an atheist. While it may be true in some technical sense, it is utterly meaningless. It's just atheism's cheap attempt to gain a few points

Answer 2

I disagree. If you take a baby and raised it in complete isolation you are not necessarily going to get an agnostic. I believe each and every person has a personal relationship with God. Depending on what that baby's relationship with God is like you could get a person who knows and believes in God, an atheist who denies the existence of God, or an agnostic who is unsure or to preoccupied with the mundane world to have even thought about God.

The prevalence of agnostics may be slightly greater when raised in isolation because many people who believe in God do so only because of societal pressures. In other words, they don't have true, inner faith, but there will still be some who strongly believe in God and others who strongly deny his existence.

Answer 3

If atheism were a BELIEF, then your statement would be true. However, atheism is not a belief, it is a lack of belief. Babies hold no belief in God, so yes, it matches the literal definition of "atheist".

It does not match those who define "atheist" as "believing there is no God(s)", because then you would need to be aware of the beliefs in God(s) in order to not believe it. That definition, however, is not the correct definition of the word "atheist".

Answer 4

Newsflash: the term "atheist" does NOT only cover those who have *decided* on the issue.



It covers all people who do not believe, whether they have decided there is not a god, or if they just (somehow) never heard about it and therefor don't believe. This would include babies.



I have a feeling you simply just can't stand the idea that your newborn might be an icky dirty old atheist... Stop trying to control the issue just to make yourself feel better.





For a long time I didn't even claim the term, because it was always a negative thing in my society. I just saw myself as just...me. A basic human being. And really I still am. But what made the difference, and what would you have called me before I decided to embrace the term? People like labels, they need a name for something...so what would it have been? Technically I *was* an atheist, whether I used the term or not.

Answer 5

You are correct. And Cainova is, too.



Animism or pantheism are likely early religious impulses. So, too, is sympathetic magic (I make a cave painting of Mega Elk being hunted and killed, so, therefore, in real life, I'll be able to hunt and kill an elk).



Here's the thing, supported by evidence: We are pattern seeking animals. Our brain is a pattern seeking machine. We make connections where there seemingly are none. Feral children, who have grown for a number of years without human contact exhibit religious thoughts. If you see a face in the clouds, and no one is around to tell you otherwise, you may well think the face is the face of a real being, one that you need to appease in order to avoid feeling its stormy wrath.



However, just because atheism ISN'T the default position doesn't mean that, therefore, that religions we know of have some innate factuality.

Answer 6

By default you would believe in nothing. You are taught religion, being an atheist today is a belief but not by definition and only because every other religion in the world wants you to believe what they do and look at you as stupid if you do not. Even atheists.

Answer 7

There is no logical proof here, and certainly no argument against atheism being a natural default. You've picked a particular statement to attack, but that doesn't address atheism as a natural default.



Skepticism can be simply argued as a rational natural default position.



Atheism is skepticism. If you wish to challenge the the logic of that, you will need to challenge skepticism as a natural default or atheism as skepticism, not the belief ability of a baby.

Answer 8

according to Islam God created everyone as a Muslim at first so every baby is born a Muslim by default and they usually are Muslims untill they are able to reason (like hitting puberty) .....it is events later that change the babies or childrens beliefs.......according to Islam, if someone where to be isolated as a child and never heard the name of the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) or even other prophets like Jesus(pbuh), they would be forgiven since its not their fault. So in this way they are not Muslim in the practical way but can still reason that there is a God and therefore are believers not atheists.



So an atheist is someone who has heard all the arguements for believing in God but has rejected the idea of God and therefore are atheists. It is this rejection that makes them an atheist. So a baby has not heard any real arguements so they cannot reject and cannot be called atheists.

Answer 9

I agree that belief and non-belief are nonsensical terms when applied to babies, or even young children.



However, religion (in the sense of ritual practices and traditions) is unnatural or it wouldn't have to be taught.



Even the idea of deities is unnatural, as Buddhism and Animism do not have to overcome any deity bias.



So what is natural? At a very young age, humans begin to try and make sense of their surroundings and give emotions and intention even where there isn't any. This ability can mold itself into a religion.

Answer 10

Atheism is the absence of belief in gods. If one does not believe in gods, one is an atheist. Newborn babies do not believe in gods (in your own words they have no beliefs). Therefore newborn babies are atheistic. That is what a logical argument looks like.

Answer 11

I've heard of a few stories about children that have been found that were raised by wild animals (I think one a monkey and the other maybe wild dogs?). They were just as wild as the animals. If these/this story is true, them that would give me reason to think that possibly children are born with a blank memory. These kids never found God in an instinctual manner, but I'm sure they found some good carcass to tear into.

Answer 12

Atheism is NOT a belief, it is a lack of belief. If you do not believe in any god you are an atheist, plain and simple. It doesn't matter if you don't believe because you have no knowledge of the concept of a god or if you do, it is a matter of "calling a spade a spade."



You just admitted that thinking leads one to reject the bible, nice. And atheism is the lack of belief in all gods, not just the god of the bible.

Answer 13

I'm an atheist and I wasn't one as a child. My parents aren't religious, and I didn't really practice Catholicism or any other religion as a child (although I did go to a Catholic school all of my life). I know tons of people who have never practiced religion, never had it brought upon them as children, etc.. yet still believe in a god. I believed that there was a god, an afterlife, etc when I was younger.. but now my views have changed just based on regular intellectual thought and other stuff.



I don't think there is a 'natural' default; I think anything can be a belief of someones regardless of how impressionable they are or not.

Answer 14

Atheists will argue that evolution then must take place in order for them to be atheists. They will feel superior because they think that anyone who worships or believes in God does not believe in evolution, thereby making the Atheist more evolved.

The way I look at it, is that God gives us life, it is a gift. We teach our children about that gift, and prepare them accordingly with baptism and other rituals. There is no place in my faith that says that evolution did not occur, and I submit that evolution itself evolved by God giving us the gift of life and knowledge.

Racehorses haven't evolved over the last hundred years.... the winning times are still yet to be broken. Is this an evolutionary argument, or an enlightenment argument?

Answer 15

LMAO, ideal logical clarification i've got ever heard from a Creationist. How's this tid-bit i cutting-edge in "The Lie: Evolution" by Ken Ham: "It basically takes straightforward sense to comprehend that one would not dig up an “age of the dinosaurs” supposedly cutting-edge 70–200 million years in the past. One digs up lifeless dinosaurs that exist now, no longer tens of millions of years in the past. Fossil bones do no longer comprise little labels linked telling you the way previous they're. Nor do fossils have photos with them telling you what the animals appeared like as they roamed the earth some time past."

Answer 16

Found your faulty logic right here: "atheism is a belief "



This is not correct, and that fact invalidates the rest of your argument. Atheism is lack of belief, so since it is impossible, by your words, for a child to have beliefs, they are atheists.



See how rediculously easy it is to twist things around? Now think about everything you've ever been told about anything. History, science, mathematics, religion, sports... everything.

Answer 17

So wrong from the start!!



Atheists simply do not believe in a god - Notice the words are "DO NOT BELIEVE" That is entirely different from saying they decide not to!!



All you do with such silly claims is show how weak your faith is and how desperate you are to shore it up!!



How do you explain geography? If a child Born in Iran is born a muslim and not a Christian then?!!



Simple truth that you are trying to hide from and deny is the child abuse of forcing children to follow a religion without giving them free will!!

Answer 18

I reject your premise, learn English, then come back, Atheism is a belief like bald is a hair color/ Its the absence of belief, disbelief, non belief etc...



Your argument isn't one, its a logical fallacy called argument from incredulity. A weak postulation at best.

Answer 19

Definition of atheism = disbelief in any deity. Having never heard of any deities, a newborn isn't going to be believing in any of them. Therefore, a newborn is atheist by default.



What you're presenting is neither "logical" nor "proof".



Dude, you seriously need to invest in a good dictionary.

Answer 20

when we were worshiping nature we were still atheists. god(s) did not "exist" until a few thousand years ago. humans have existed for about 2 million years.

we choose not to beLIEve in hocus pocus, oops the bible. it is just a collection of stories stolen from other cultures before them. much of the meaning of symbols in the stories are lost because of the alterations.

Answer 21

Atheism is not a belief, buy a dictionary.



The statement works because babies do not believe, just as you say, and atheism is the complete lack of belief in god(s).



I did address it; atheism is not a religion, belief system, anything. It defines an absence. Something that seems to be very hard for many people to comprehend.

Answer 22

Nope.



Atheism is not a belief. It is a disbelief, which is very different.



Babies do not have concept of what god is therefore by default they do not believe in them. Thus, by definition, they are atheists.

Answer 23

atheism the belief of no god/s, when a child is born they have no knowledge of god/s ergo atheist.

Answer 24

You may be confused about the actual definition of atheism. It is a lack of belief. Therefore your entire argument is flawed.

Answer 25

People believe in God because it is forced upon them at a young age. People later become athiests because they are smart enough to make up their own mind about religion, except for some cultures. But that is why they strap bombs to their chests and blow up cars and kill innocent people. I think what you are talking about is all simantics but I can definately see the point you are trying to make.

Answer 26

atheism is no belief in god

your rambling claims are not logical or convincing

Answer 27

You know, "logical proofs" sway very few people. One man's logic is another man silliness. That's how we humans are.



Religion is, first and foremost, a faith issue.

Answer 28

Ahteism is not a belief, an athiest merely does not believe i mythica stories and beings, and uses reason instead of what someone else tells us

Answer 29

They go by instinct LOL, sure think there guy. Pressure by the parents is really "instinct".

Answer 30

Sounds pretty logical to me. I'm rather tired, so I'll just make things simple and say that I agree.





Best of luck fighting the anti-atheism war!

Answer 31

please take some psychology, and philosophical reasoning courses. pay attention while you are in them.

Answer 32

atheism is not a belief...



if it is, please, let us know what we are to be worshiping? because last i checked, there was nothing there...