Question:
Are Jewish people a race as well as a religion?
anonymous
2009-12-27 04:36:12 UTC
I'm confused. I answered the following question with the answer that "I think it's because Jewish people are considered a race as well as a religion". Implying that you couldn't recruit someone into a race.

"Why don't Jews proselytize? And why do Christians and Muslims proselytize?
pros·e·ly·tize
\ˈprä-s(ə-)lə-ˌtīz\

- to induce someone to convert to one's faith
- to recruit or convert someone to join one's party, institution, or cause"

I've got 10 thumbs downs so far, suggesting that I'm incorrect in this statement. I said this as a statement of what I presumed fact, not trying to pigeon hole Jewish people or try to be insulting, I just honestly thought that was the case.

Please discuss.
Nine answers:
✡mama pajama✡
2009-12-27 15:56:43 UTC
Jewish identity FOR the Jewish people has never been determined by "race" and that notion of Jews AS a race is one that was created by Jew haters in the 19th century. Unfortunately it is also a notion that many who don't even recognize it as disrespectful of Jews and have fallen prey to believing it.. despite the fact that Jews have always spoken out that it is a false notion.

My answer is long, but thorough and has reputable references to learn even more.

Jews are a nation people, Israel (tribal origin) bound by an eternal covenant of the faith (religion) of Judaism. It is the laws of Judaism, given by God to the covenant nation, Israel, in the Torah, that determine Jewish identity. It is not a matter of “blood” but of self-determination through the laws of the Jewish people. I know that sounds repetitive but I repeated that because that appears hard for some to grasp.



People related to one another share genetic markers. The Hebrews had no concept of genetics. Jews began as a family, then as a small group of tribes and has remained tribal in nature. However, Jews are NOT considered a race. Jews are not *an* ethnicity. There is simply no *single* Jewish ethnicity. Neither ethnicity or race define Jewish identity. I repeat, it is Jewish law that defines Jewish identity.



We are Klal Yisrael, the community of Israel. . *MANY* different and distinctly Jewish cultures and ethnicities have developed over the millennia in Diaspora lands. The Diaspora refers to the Jewish presence outside of Israel after the destruction of the First and Second Temple periods and the Bar Kochba revolt.



There are many ethnicities that are distinctly Jewish. There are the Mizrahi (from the Middle East and North Africa).The Sephardi (Spanish) and the Ashkenazi, (German, Polish, Russian and other Eastern European), the Beta Yisrael of Ethiopia, and the Cochin of India and others, that are different as to cultural practices and foods, but it is the faith and covenant that binds them all together as Klal Yisrael.



The Jewish people are considered both a nation and a religion. Our connection is primarily one of faith (religion) through the covenant of Israel, yet membership is also conferred by birth, through matrilineal descent. One may also become a part of the nation Israel by adoption of the faith of Judaism and formal procedures of conversion.



One who converts to Judaism is considered as FULLY Jewish as one born Jewish and their children are Jews. This has been the case since the times of the Torah.



However, one may technically be a Jew if their mother is a Jew, but apostate to the covenant of Israel and no longer considered a member of the nation if they leave it for the covenant of faith of another religion.



A few rabbis have suggested that rather than identify the Jewish people as a nation, as the Torah itself calls us directly, we refer to ourselves as “family”..and while that is how we relate to one another, other rabbis say that we should not redefine our identity based on the fact that some people confuse the definition of a nation people, with a nation state, or courtry. Further complicating this detail is the State of Israel. Israelis are citizens of Israel and may or may not be of the covenant nation people, Israel. See important definitions at the bottom.

The Jewish nation began as a group of tribes and our connection to one another is still from the perspective of a tribal nation. (example: as the Lakota nation has tribal procedure and law to determine who is a member of their tribe, who is not, who is expelled and who is adopted, so does Judaism)

One born a member of the tribal covenant nation Israel (Jewish) may not be observant or even believe in God and they’re still a full member, a Jew. They may not be a good member at all or an active member but unless they have voided membership by following something ELSE instead of Judaism, they're still a member, a Jew. An atheist or a secular Jew is not trying to call something ELSE Judaism. That is how one may be an "atheist Jew". Not believing that there is such a thing as deity, any deity is not following a false deity. An atheist Jew may live Jewish ethics and identify with their people, but they did not take on foreign beliefs contradictory to the monotheism of Torah and become “estranged“ from the Jewish people. An atheist may not convert *to* Judaism to become a member of the tribe because an affirmation of faith in the God of Israel is required to JOIN.



Now if one born into the covenant becomes apostate through rejection of the covenant by adoption of another belief contradictory to the covenant, they are still be considered a Jew, but for all intents and purposes, they're not given the status of a member. Their status is "apostate Jew". According to Jewish law they're not counted in a minyan,(the minimum number of adults required for certain prayers and other mitzvot), they can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery, they cannot be given honors to go up to read Torah at a synagogue, and they may not be allowed to speak for the Jewish people. They CAN however, return without formal conversion should they repent of their idolatrous or foreign god worship and then be embraced again as full members. One who has left the Jewish people for the foreign faith of another people must undergo the steps of TESHUVAH , which means repentance and return to the God of Israel. Some groups may require that the individual also requires immersion in the mikveh before being accepted back, but they do not require the formal steps of conversion should the person wish to return.



Jews are in NO way a RACE..other than as members of the human race. Ruth was a member of the Moabite nation that was condemned to be separate from God for their evil. However, she was a righteous woman who converted and adopted the faith of Israel and was the ancestor of King David. The New Testament depicts her as being an ancestor of Jesus, too. I like to bring this up when some Christians want to declare that converts aren't "real Jews" or that Jews are a race. It is Jewish law alone, not Christianity or any other entity that determines the status of who and what is Jewish.



When a Jew adopts a belief that is in conflict with the Jewish religion, the belief does NOT become a " Jewish belief" just because a Jew chooses to believe in it. THAT is the conflict Jews have with the Christians who call themselves Jews if they deceptively try to present their Christian belief AS Judaism. A Jew who converts to Hare Krishna is just as apostate, but there exists no Jews for Hare Krishna or Hare Krishna Judaism evangelical groups spending millions of dollars a year in campaigns to convert secular Jews by convincing them it is a form of Judaism.



You can become a member of a tribe or nation if you meet the criteria of citizenship. And the covenant people, Klal Yisrael, remain as in the earliest days of the covenant..a nation.

Reform Judaism (of which I am a member) will consider as Jewish one whose father is a Jew IF the child was RAISED in Judaism actively and exclusively. Even in Reform Judaism, simply having a Jewish father without exclusively Jewish upbringing, does not make one born a Jew.

Reform Judaism also recognizes that only Orthodox conversion is considered acceptable to all branches.

It is against Jewish law for any Jew to discriminate against a convert to Judaism. Since the time of the Torah converts have been accepted as fully Jewish, and this is the case in all movements. We are not even supposed to refer to the fact that they are converts! It is up to them if they wish to identify themselves as such. They are Jews, period.



The covenant people, Israel have been MULTIRACIAL since the days of Torah, Moses' wife, Zipporah was a black woman. There have been Ethiopian Beta Yisrael since the days of Solomon! And I repeat, one cannot convert to a race. One may convert and become fully Jewish.



The Jewish Bible ( Tanakh ) tells from the beginning book to the end that the righteous of all nations ( Jew or Gentile ) have the capacity to connect directly to God, merit blessing and a place in the world to come. Every human is equal before God according to the Jewish religion. Atonement is directly from God.

To address some who try to claim that "Jews" only refer to one tribe in the Tanakh:

From Megillat Esther (The Book of Esther), Chapter 2

ה אִישׁ יְהוּדִי, הָיָה בְּשׁוּשַׁן הַבִּירָה; וּשְׁמוֹ מָרְדֳּכַי, בֶּן יָאִיר בֶּן-שִׁמְעִי בֶּן-קִישׁ--אִישׁ יְמִינִי. 5 There was a certain Jew in Shushan the castle, whose name was Mordecai the son of Jair the son of Shimei the son of Kish, a Benjamite,

Pretty clear that the Tanach uses the Term Yehudi for all Jews- considering the fact that Mordechai was from the tribe of Benjamin

Shalom
Cher and Cher alike
2009-12-28 01:38:28 UTC
I'll second Mama_pajama's explanation.



The idea of Jews as a race came from pre& during Nazism master race ideas. Till then Judaism was definited as a "nation", "community" & by it's own laws on who was a Jew, which look very similar to the nation it started out as.



You can convert to Judaism & be a fully a Jew. You can't do that with races or ethnicities, but can with countries. In Torah there are many examples of people who joined the Israelites.



Not proselytizing isn't the same as not allowing someone to convert. We don't actively seek members because we don't have the exclusivity of value that Christainity & Islam have (& I think only they have.) There is no hell in Judaism. So no need to be "a Jew" & it's assumed non-Jews can also have a good relationship with God, their own convenant, & a place in the world to come.



Important addition to this explanation, pre& during Nazism rise of hate brought this specific change from seeing Jews as an "evil" religous group to "evil" at the core. Both false ideas of course. However, until then, Jews could get rid of their evil character by converting to Christainity. This shift is why instead of isolating & subjugating Jews, the shift was to killing them. The different between teh two views is the scholarly difference between the terms antijudasim & antisemitism.



A link you might link on interfaith outreach between Jews & Christians is http://www.jcrelations.net . It may fill in some of the history (it's a huge site so it has a bit on everything).



=================

Papa G

The records weren't destroyed with the Temple because they weren't kept in the Temple (this seems to be a Christian myth.) Each person didn't suddenly forget who their parent's were.
Corey
2009-12-27 12:47:56 UTC
It's a religion and a culture. There are some ethnicities that have a high frequency of Jewish people (and vice versa), partially because for centuries there was little marrying between Jewish and Gentile communities.

A person cannot change ethnicity, but they can convert religions. And if living as part of a community long enough, they adopt the culture.



If it's really so difficult to wrap your head around, substitute "Irish Catholic" in for "Jewish".
anonymous
2009-12-27 12:43:03 UTC
Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different races have become Jewish people over the years.

Being Jewish is not a nationality because Jews have been dispersed throughout the world for almost two thousand years. People of many different nationalities are Jewish.

Being Jewish means you are a part of a religious movement. However, the great majority of Jews become a part of the religious movement through birth and not due to their beliefs or actions. In this way, being Jewish is like being a citizen of a religious movement.



A Jewish identity is automatically bestowed on the babies of Jewish mothers (according to Orthodox and Conservative Judaism) and of Jewish mothers or fathers (according to Reform Judaism). This Jewish identity stays with them throughout life even if they don't actively practice Judaism.

If a person is not born Jewish, he/she can undergo the process of conversion to become a Jew. A person who was not born Jewish or has not gone through the conversion process is not considered a Jew even if he or she believes in Judaism and observes Jewish practices. The conversion process is very meaningful because it is the only way for a non-Jew to become Jewish.

s
Squirrley Temple
2009-12-27 12:45:46 UTC
Don't worry about thumbs, it means nada.

Yes, Jews are both, you have to be born from a Jewish mother to be Jewish. Sure some can convert to the religion, but real Jews are born Jews. Judaism is the religion, Jews are the people.

Muslims don't proselytize either, you'll never see a muslim door-knocking at dinner time, or standing on a street corner handing out pamphlets. Muslims do answer questions if someone is asking about the religion, but they don't get pushy like the Xians, because muslims believe, as it says in the Quran, that if someone is called by Allah (God) then they will SEEK out Islam.



bring on the thumbs, LOL, some people can't handle the truth. Pfffft.
Chedvah
2009-12-27 15:46:56 UTC
Jewish people are not a race because there are White Jews, Black Jews, Asian Jews, etc.

We are united not by our ethnicity or race but by our faith in G-d and in Judaism (our religion).



Here's more info. on the many different Jews that are present in the world:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions



The reason why Jewish people do not proselytize is because:



1) We know what it feels like to be targeted and pressured by groups who want to constantly convert us to their faith. (It sucks so we don't feel like putting other people through that.)



2) In Judaism we believe that you don't have to be Jewish in order to be a good person. So we don't really find the need to hunt out people for conversion because all good people will have a place in the world to come (heaven) weather they are Jewish or non-Jewish.



3) And we also believe that if a person wants to be Jewish they have to really be dedicated to the cause/idea/faith because being Jewish isn't just some fad religion you fall into you have to really feel convicted about converting (you can't just convert on a whim).



And the reason why Christians feel the need to convert people is because they believe that their religion is the right one and that if you don't accept their beliefs about Jesus then you are going to burn in hell forever. So they feel that by proselytizing their faith they are "saving souls" from going to hell and burning eternally. They feel like they are doing the right thing by preaching to people about their faith.



As for Muslims I don't know for sure what their stance is on proselytizing. All I know is: some Muslims feel that all people have to accept Allah and his prophet Mohammad or they will also burn in a hell like place.

While more progressive Muslims believe that as long as you are a member of one of the Abrahamic faiths (i.e. Judaism or Christianity) then you will also have a place in paradise.
papa G
2009-12-27 12:48:49 UTC
Here is something of interest.



Israel had 12 sons , who became the founders of 12 tribes. One of those was Judah, from which name the word “Jew” was eventually derived.



In time the term “Jew” was applied to all Israelites, not just to a descendant of Judah. Because the Jewish genealogical records were destroyed in 70 C.E. when the Romans razed Jerusalem, no Jew today can accurately determine from which tribe he himself is descended. Nevertheless, over the millenniums, the ancient Jewish religion has developed and changed. Today Judaism is practiced by millions of Jews in the Republic of Israel and around the world.



Today anyone can convert to Judaism.
Tristen
2009-12-27 12:45:30 UTC
You are correct that the term Jew is often used to refer to a belief system on one hand, and the descendants of Jacob on the other. Perhaps use 'Judaism' to refer to the belief system instead to avoid misunderstandings.
Pony Slaystation ◕‿◕
2009-12-27 12:59:11 UTC
ethno-religious


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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