A real proof the christianity is wrong?

Question

Just like science Christianity can be treated like a theory.
Here is what I will define to be the axioms of Christianity:
1. The is one God who created everything and is prefect
2. Jesus was his only son
3. The bible is prefect and inspired by God

To prove a theory wrong we must show that one of the axioms are wrong. To do this we can use a counterexample...a fancy word for an example that shows that something is doesn't always work out, and we only need one.

I'm going to attach the 3rd axioms...the one about the bible.

Luke 23.45 says that the curtain of the temple was torn in two before Jesus died.

Matt 27.51 says that the curtain of the temple was torn in two after Jesus died.

This means that one of the two is wrong. Therefore the bible cannot be prefect. Therefore the bible isn't inspired by God since God is prefect.

Answer 1

I don't care what you think you proved ...you simply are wrong....the Bible is the true inspired Word of God...you can never tell me or show me otherwise.....I know God exists and nothing can change my mind about that either.....once one forms a good relationship with God one can never turn away...the truth is revealed to those who truly seek with an open heart.....

Answer 2

Why don't you starting hitting the people with the understanding that the bible was written when Platonian philosophy was the only philosophy. Read Platonian philosophy - it's so full of crap - he wanted power to stay with the elite philosophers. The scary part is that the bible, religion and government today are based on this philosophy.



Aristotle was unread until his work got retranslated during the Renaissance (I think - it could be later). Socrates might have even been better - but because he was deemed a threat he was killed and his work destoyed. Think though what the bible, religion, government, everything would be like if Aristotlean or Socratic philosophy had at least been available during 100-500AD - Nicene Council and especially the bastard St. Augustine of Hippo. He was probably the most guilty of locking the population of the world in the 'prison' that civilization is today. We would have never had the Dark Ages or Inquisition...none of it.



You are doing a great job with researching the bible - but as many said you can only have the tomato - tomaato arguement a couple of times. Dig deeper and contextualize the bible then you can point out inconsistencies that create a false reality - a false reality used by elites and authority today to stay in power. After you read the philosophers, you will start to see how the logic of the bible is set up - it's mental traps etc. These mental traps have become a base philosophy that we all live by and don't even think about. You've got to point out the flaws in the thinking foundation that no one thinks about.

Answer 3

Matt 27:51 says "at that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two." Maybe you need to go back to school. "at that moment" means that it happened at the same time. Hence the word "AT"



Mark does not say which occurred first. Only that both happened.If Mark had intended to say that the curtain was torn first he would have used a word such as "THEN". It is not there. He merely says that both things happened.



So the only thing that you have proven is that you are willing to lie about the scriptures to try and make others believe the bible is untrue. But the best example of something untrue, just came from you.

Answer 4

For starters God never claimed to be perfect, just eternal. In fact, after the flood God apologized with the rainbow.



Next, in Genesis it says the "Sons of God" saw the Daughters of Adam and Eve and took them as wives. There is some dispute as to this phrase, but if it is correct then God already had children and there must be a Mrs. God somewhere.



The Bible is inspired by God but written by imperfect man and re-written and translated by imperfect men who might have even had a gun at their head by King James or the Pope or Constantine or the Jewish Pharises.



You see there is some conflict, even among the Jews. Some say the Verbal Stories and the Written Stories make up the Tanakh, but some say only the written stories should count.



The Catholics banned about 30+ books of the bible.



The version of the bible we have today is Adulterated by In-fighting between Jewish theologians, in-fighting between Catholic theologians, in-fighting between Protestant theologians.



AND, someone here sited SCIENTIFIC proof that the Earth does not move and that proof won a Nobel Prize



Michelson-Morley, go look it up! These two SCIENTISTS claimed in print that taking "error" into account the experiment proves that no MOTION exists on the Earth.



They were being somewhat facicious, of course, but their PROOF, their AXIOM proved that the



Earth is the Center of the Universe, does not move and ALL other bodies revolve around the Earth.



SCIENCE proved that in 1887! And they got a Nobel Prize for this work!



Ball is back in your court! Service! Love Love!

Answer 5

Another Magesterial teaching is that scripture cannot be used to counter scripture.



Especially examples taken from the four Gospels...because, the Gospels were never intended, nor have true biblical scholars taken them, to be precise histories. They were written by individuals many years after the events and read more like a witness statement police would take at a crime scene. They all will read a little differently from the other but the overall truth and essence of the events are there and consistent.



If you're hanging your hat on a simple thing like if the veil was rent(curtain torn) either before or after Jesus died, you will have to do much better. No educated Bible scholar of any religious background will run with that one.

Answer 6

The Bible is contradictive in a lot of areas, but, it was written by men inspired by God. Not written by God & inspired by men. Since your #1 axiom states that God is perfect, it does not state that men are perfect.

Since I look at the Bible as a study of the development of Christianity, I have no problem with it. From the Old Testament to the New Testament, there are drastic changes in the practice of Christianity.

I have never heard that the Bible is perfect. Anything written by men is bound to have mistakes. Inspired= means to have life breathed into, thats why it's called the living Bible. Inspired by God does not mean [ made perfect by God]

Answer 7

Though outward evidences do not prove the Bible to be God's Word, it is still remarkable how the Bible has distinguished itself in the history of the written word. Consider the faithful way the Bible has been translated, circulated, and preserved. The number of manuscripts from ancient times that all agree and attest to the accuracy of the Bible we have today is utterly amazing; there is no other ancient book that can even come close to this kind of attestation. Even more important to us are the internal evidences that the Bible is the very Word of God. Here we could point to the Bible's accuracy in prophecy--the fact that every single thing foretold in the Old Testament is fulfilled in the New Testament. (Did you know that no less than 333 Old Testament prophecies were fulfilled by Jesus in the New Testament?) We could point to the unity of the Bible--how every book of the Bible agrees with all the others, and they are all centered in Christ. We could point to the unparalleled impact and power that the Bible has on the hearts and lives of people. All these things demonstrate that the Bible is unique. The Bible is God's Book.



In the final analysis, however, we cannot prove God scientifically in a laboratory, nor do we prove the Bible to be true. We trust in God. We believe in him. We trust that the Bible is his Word and, therefore, it is true in its every aspect and is the very revelation of the one true God. These are articles of faith that have been planted in our hearts by God. We are confident of them because our God has made us confident of them when he worked the miracle of faith in Jesus Christ, his Son and our Savior, in our hearts. Our confidence is not based on intellectual assent, because faith is so much more than intellectual proof.



To address the two passages you cited, Luke 23.45 and Matt 27.51, according to the translation I am using (NIV) to respond, the Book of Matthew does not say that the curtain of the temple was torn in two after Jesus died. It says that it happened at the moment he cried out and breathed his last, which does parallel the scripture written in Luke.



My encouragement to you is to find the time to read and study the Bible. In it God says, "Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the Word of Christ" (Romans 10:17). The more you read and study the Bible, the more quickly and stronger your faith in God and his Word will grow. May God richly bless you.

Answer 8

There are many examples of your third axiom, like this one...



Matthew 20:29 "Now as they departed from Jericho, a great multitude followed him..."



Luke 18:35 "Then it happened, that as He was coming near Jericho..."



This one is special in the sense that an archaeological survey of the city of Jericho (this one I'll need to recheck if this study is available in Net) reveals that there are actually two cities of Jericho. To be more accurate, there's the original one, and an adjunct or extension to the city. As the original city walls (not the one in Joshua's time, the one when the city was first rebuilt) were intact at that time, one city gate would've been the entry to the other city. In speak, you could be both entering and leaving the city at that time...



In the case of the temple you've given, note that the temple is divided into three distinct regions, a public area, a holy area, and the Holy of Holies, each potentially divided by a curtain.



Science is one way to look at Christianity, but another way to look at it is through law, as in courtroom law, etc. If we were to bring Christianity to the courtroom, it would all depend on testimony, both scientific and eyewitness.



Then, there is the potential problem with the theory you've presented. Based on that I could equally come up with this theory and three axioms:



- Created beings cannot be equal to or greater than its creator.

- As God is perfect, His creation cannot equal to His perfection.

- Thus, things coming from man would have flaws or loopholes.



Evidence of such would be our system of law and judgement, that regardless of how its written there is a way to circumvent it. There is a good possibility that your theory could be flawed in its writing (I am assuming you are not claiming to be God) as it is. Even the greatest of scientific discoveries, such as gravity and relativity, remain in theoretic form. When a theory attempting to explain an event in nature or space is proven wrong, we discard the theory, not the event in nature.



So what does all this conclude? It could be summed up in this verse:



"For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God" - 1 Corinthians 2: 11

Answer 9

There is something much more basic than that. A scientific finding should have to be repeated under the same circumstances. I mean, 2+2=4 because every single time you try it (unless you make the wrong calculation) it's got to give the same result. And water boils always at the same temperature under normal pressure condition, because that is going to happen every time you try the experience. Now, the bible is totally impossible to prove or disprove. It's just an opinion, it's not based on any independent source, and it doesn't have any objective source to back it up. So, scientific standards just don't apply to it.

Answer 10

Although I am not a believer in Christianity in the slightest, you have to remember the bible was written by man and probably translated hundreds if not thousands of times. And I will be the first to say that man is subject to error very easily.



But as far as prrof of your theory goes, I do believe that the religion has many more faults and "holes" in it.



This is such a funny sensitive subject because most people who believe in it were never introduced to anything else. And when someone tries to propose an alternative to the fairy tales they grew up learning about, they wouldnt bother even listening. Therefore most christians are stubborn closed minded people who all follow their leader to the death, like a cult, brainwashed to the point of allowing such an administration to perform such acts of war and conspiracy on other countries.



woops...sorry..got a little off topic there...that felt good though :)

Answer 11

The Bible was written by man and not by God. But the Bible is still inspired by God. Why else would it have been written? I'm a very dedicated Christian but I don't believe every word the Bible says because it was written by men and men have faults. Therefore, God can be perfect, but the Bible does not have to be perfect.

Answer 12

The bible is perfect and God's inspiration. The translations, however, are not. Translations can be changed slightly to refrain from plagiarism, which is why some translations may slightly differ.

NKJV Matt. 27:51 "And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom..."

Luke 23:45 "Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two. And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father into your hands...Having said this He breathed His last..."

Luke doesn't indicate if the veil was torn before or after Christ gave up the ghost. It tells us "AND when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice... Luke speaks in this one verse as if two events are happening...He tells us in the second sentence what was happening when Jesus cried out. He doesn't say that the veil was torn before Christ died.

Matthew speaks as if he looked and saw that the veil was torn

Consider Matthew's use of "Then, behold" and Luke's beginning of the second sentence..."AND when Jesus"... I hope that clears the misunderstanding...

Answer 13

No one said the bible was perfect, it has been written by man. Only some believe the hole bible was spiritual written. I think at the core, the religion is true and perfect, but to many people have had there say in it, especially after the death of Jesus. On top of that something might have been changed by accident in the translation from Hebrew to English.

Answer 14

I don't know what version of this Bible you claim this is wrote in. I have 3. None of them says that.





KJV



Luke: 23

45. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. ( no where does it say, it was tore in two BEFORE He died.) Read the next verse. "AND" Jesus cried out. Don't read words into it, that are not there my friend. The only flaw you have found is your own flaw of "assumption".



Matthew. 27

51. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Answer 15

The Bible is really just a fake story, perhaps a bit like the Loch Ness monster tales.



When we pass on information to another (example: story, joke, description of something etc) by the time these details are passed on by word of mouth, interpreted by others, and then written down, the final details are typically quite different than the original information.



Since the Bible is just a man-made story passed down over many years in various forms, the chance of it being accurate in any shape or form is remote.



There are people who swear blind that the Loch Ness monster exists regardless of all the evidence to the contrary, but a fence post bobbing up and down in the Loch does the trick. Similarly there are people who swear blind that God exists and the Bible is fact, yet there isn’t one blind bit of evidence to support such theories.



Biblical tales are really no different than Loch Ness monster tales, just the era is different.

Answer 16

So if I inspire you to create a masterpiece you will be perfect because I am perfect....Right? Wow wonderful theory..too bad its NOT. If the one who inspires is perfect than all inspired by him will be perfect therefore all Christians are perfect. If that is true no need for Christ to die we are already perfect...So the bible is not even necessary because we are perfect....Need to work on your theory perhaps you could seek God and he will reveal the truth to you Instead of expecting god to prove himself to you allow him to do so.By the way both describe after his death.Or at the time of his death. The Gospel or your salvation does not depend on at which second the temple curtain was rent.If it is pertinent to exact time please show me how that works. What you need from the word is provided please read on.

Answer 17

Actually the curtain was torn in two at the exact moment He died. Its a mistranslation. The Bible is perfect. Tranlaters aren't. If you would study the Bible, instead of merely just reading it word for word you might learn something.

Answer 18

For everyone that says this question is dumb.... stop and realize that ALOT of christians beleive that the bible is the "word of god"! That god sent it down written in its current form! this isnt going to change anyone, but it does point out something very serious. most christians have never read the bible

Answer 19

It sounds to me like it was kinda all happening at the same time, the two writers just listed them differently. At any rate, I think it's probably more important to just keep reading to the end of those verses and the centurion present (who had previously not believed) state, "Truly this was the Son of God."

Answer 20

Yet the bible was written by man directed by God. Therefore the bible is both flawed, and flawless. In order to question the bible, you must put faith in it. To doubt in the bible, you become living proof.



What proves God doesn't exist is not the answer you seek. But I will give it to you, and you must choose to have faith in God or have faith in me. Doubt me and God, and you will have proven yourself wrong.



Perfect doesn't exist; therefore imperfection cannot.

Am I wrong?

If God is perfect and we're imperfect, then neither exist...for no two minds think alike. What is perfect to you is imperfect to someone else.



If God is imperfect and we're perfect the way we are, then God exists. For perfection exists. Thus we are not perfect for we were proven wrong.

Answer 21

luke and matt (and all the other pople) all told the stories in the bible based upon how they wanted to tell it from their point of view. god is perfect. the people who wrote the bible weren't. god wanted to get his message across however the people who wrote the bible wanted to tell it. maybe everything in the bible didn't really happen but it's in there to make a point and to teach a lesson. who knows maybe they did that on purpose so that god could see who the real believers were and not the people who stop believeing because of one verse.

Answer 22

Believe me if you try to find all the technicalities and lack of logic in the religion, you'll end up in a very spiteful angst against all possibilities. Just try to be open to others and non-judgmental. Let others believe as they wish. Its more so a sense of comfort from the unknown to them.

Answer 23

i for one belive theres more than just one "god" i belive that all the natural elements are our creators (whether they have personsas or not) thats besides the point but i myself think theres no proof of what or whos really up there. remember the bible is a book of stories passed on from generation to generation, although jesus did exist (as well as his wife and kids :p) the stories about him are a mixture of gossip and truths

Answer 24

Keep posting.



Don't get discouraged.



If you can bring just one person out of faith, and into reason, the world will be improved.

Answer 25

Your forgetting the human factor of the Bible... inspired humans wrote the Bible not God... humans are imperfect therefore the Bible is imperfect...



It was this way by design... you logic "proves" nothing accept that you don't know what you are talking about...



you may want to get some education so that you don't look so stupid next time.

Answer 26

instead off looking for the wrong in the bible which there isnt use the bible to help u in ur messed up life

Answer 27

Isn't freedom of speech a great thing? Same for freedom of religion, right? At least, hopefully, we can agree with that much.

Answer 28

So you are smarter than GOD and can find mistakes HE makes

wait till HE will show the TRUTH you will never forget HIM and you will know that HE MAKES NO MISTAKES

GOD BLESS

Answer 29

Religion cannot be treated like science. Scientific theories are subject to experimentation for validation. "Beliefs" cannot be tested.

Answer 30

lets see if any Christians will try to argue against your quotes



its sad that they so far have not.



is their faith so blind that they fundamentally cannot except the fact that they might be wrong?

Answer 31

Thank you for sharing your viewpoint.



What if 3 is not an Axiom of Christianity (not in the sense you present above)... that would appear to destroy your argument...



Cordially,

John

Answer 32

they rnot wrong.. but misguided by greedy money seeker people

Answer 33

will u stop this, for ur good God's sake.

Answer 34

as usual, you non-Believers exert so much effort on technicalities taking scripture out of context, etc. try to discount that which is, in fact, based on FAITH....NOT theory!

Answer 35

Which is it: Is man one of God's blunders or is God one of man's?

Answer 36

There is a lot of hate in this world, and a lot of people

use God and Religion as a means to hate and feel

justified in doing so.



- Doug W

Answer 37

well this is truly stupid; what exactly is an 'axiom'??

Answer 38

Ok got me I guess I'll stop believing now.......NOT