Question:
The Universe Cannot Be an Accident?
DREAMER
2006-11-12 02:25:13 UTC
http://www.biblebelievers.com/the-reason-why.html#Proving_God

quote:
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The president of the New York Scientific Society once gave eight reasons why he believed there was a God. The first was this: Take 10 identical coins and mark them 1 to 10. Place them in your pocket. Now take one out. There is 1 chance in 10 that you will get number one. Now replace it, and the overall chance that number two follows number one is not 1 in 10, but 1 in 100. With each new coin taken out, the risk will be multiplied by 10, so that the chance of ten following nine, is 1 in 10 000 000 000 or 10 billion. It seemed so unbelievable to me that I immediately took pencil and paper and very quickly discovered he was right. Try it yourself.
That is why George Gallup, the American statistician, says, "I could prove God statistically. Take the human body alone – the chance that all its functions would just happen is a statistical monstrosity."

Surely no thoughtful person would wish to base their eternal future on a "statistical monstrosity"? Perhaps that is why the Bible says in Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, 'There is no God.'"


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22 answers:
anonymous
2006-11-12 03:36:10 UTC
Ridiculous. The chances against evolution are much greater than the coin theory.
The angels have the phone box.
2006-11-12 10:40:38 UTC
You're thinking from the end results. Yes, the chance of human bodies happening as they are is vanishingly low. BUT the chance of something coming together that has life and intelligence ISN'T.



Think of it this way, each time you reach in your pocket you WILL get a coin. It might be 3, 6, 2, 8, 5, 1, 4, 9, 7, 10. Not the sequence you were forced to memorize in nursery. So what?



If it happened all over again, it would probably go somewhat differently. Humans probably wouldn't exist. Something else would.



I am thoughtful. That's why I do not wish to base the life that I know I have on the minute possibility that there is an afterlife which works just as the Christian Canon predicts. After all, the probability of that is statistically even less than life on earth. :-)
anonymous
2006-11-12 12:13:14 UTC
George Gallup knew nothing about evolution. Things don't "just happen", they appear gradually as a result of thousands of generations of cumulative selection. There is a big difference between one step with a probability of 1/1000 and 500 steps with a probability of 1/2.
Raja Krsnan
2006-11-12 16:40:41 UTC
i will say with certainty that bible is wrong just like the person above mentioned. i agree that universe is not an accident, but bible invented that lie. no athiest said thta universe is an accident. now propogating lie is one of the main purpose of bible and bible believers.



universe was not created by god. that is a certainty. bible was proved wrong on every count by simple people through ages. still they do not accept the truth. the truth is god manifested himself as the universe, that's why i said it is not created. creation is the invention of pea brained authors of bible.



bible sees god and man as two different beings. that is the wrong stand bible taken, to cover up this insufficiency they go on inventing another lie. they do not accept that god can manifest himself as the universe. if they accept this, they know that the jesus is not the only son of god. the whole universe will be sons and daughters of god. thier theory of return of christ will fall flat. even if somone says there is no god, it makes no difference to god, because it is he who says that. so whatever psalms say is also out of ignorance. bible belives that ignorance is bliss. well bible is for ignorant fools.



people who area dhyanis have experienced what god is. yes, it cannot be explained, but have to be experienced. no one in christianity has this experience. come to east, the proof of god is visible everywhere. but not in bible. it is an outdated book.



do you know that god wants every being in this universe to merge into him. only a dhyani can achieve that, only a budha can become god. every man has that potential, that is the goal of man, dissolve into god. this simple truth bible and its authors did not understand. for 2000 years they have been propogating a lie.



Asatoma sadgamaya; Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya; mrityorma amritam gamaya.



Aum Shanti, Shanti, Shanti.



Raja Krsnan.
anonymous
2006-11-12 10:42:38 UTC
once you stopped giggling coins in your pocket, try to remember that statistics works in favor of a process that goes on forever, no matter how small the chances of something happening during one try, if you keep trying it again and again your chances of success are 100%. so is the big band theory, or the theory of evolution, you don't have to get the result at every shot, but if branes, in their 11 dimensions, exist and are not static, the chance of a "collision" of 2 or more branes, which can cause a "big bang" occurring at least once is 100%, and if evolution continues for hundreds of millions of years, and evolutionary changes occur almost every generation, the chance of each life evolving into other life is 100%.

there is no need of fictitious being to create and sustain these processes.
Barabas
2006-11-12 10:35:09 UTC
I don't believe you even bother to read the answers and are only interested in preaching.

I also do not believe that any president of any " New York Scientific Society" made any such statement. If there ever was a President of any such society. Neither the quote or the said society return any hits on a web search. If it was a valid quote why is there no reference to who said it, and why is there no " New York Scientific Society."

I think this is just more Baloney from your religious propaganda machine."
Alucard
2006-11-12 10:47:46 UTC
Stupid argument that relies on ignorance of the topic. If Gallup really said that, he doesn't understand how human evolution works and is independant of "random chance." Granted, we don't understand how the universe came to be, but at the core or before the big bang it is possible a simple mathematical process built itself to create what we now see as laws and what not; this is why many experts are led to believe there is a multiverse where mathematical characteristics are different in all of them.
Ted T
2006-11-12 10:34:25 UTC
Evolution ensures that all the bits fit together and work properly. If they didn't we wouldn't exist. As for the coins in the pocket, you could take one out which was not #1 put it back a thousand times and still not get #1. Don't get the point.
anonymous
2006-11-12 10:32:20 UTC
yup :) your right. u'll probably get a lot of angry "well thats a lot of nonesense!"rs, and they will prolly vote my answer down but who cares. (y would they be in the religion section anyways?) even with my own meager studies of biology i have coem to the realization that the body is like a well oiled, perfect machine, made of livign flesh and breathing air, how the slightest error in reparing the dna in a single cell in a paper cut can cuase skin cancer, its quite amazing. but i didnt need that to tell me there is a God, or ur story, nice as it is. becuae i beleive in my heart.. even with out proof, and even if their wasnt any "proof" i would still belive, an i kinda have a feelin He's happy with me about that.
.
2006-11-12 10:30:45 UTC
The only problem with what you're saying is that it doesn't prove any particular god. It doesn't even prove how MANY gods did the creating. I could use that same example and say, "Yep, that's proof that Allah exists!" or "Yeah, that's proof that Zeus exists!" It's a nice demonstration but it really doesn't get you very far.
anonymous
2006-11-12 10:30:03 UTC
Exactly!



Now some atheist is going to say "given enough time, a room full of monkeys with typewriters could type out shakespeare's entire works"
anonymous
2006-11-12 10:39:16 UTC
so, how does that work exactlly? This is just evidence of game theory, nothing at all to with existence of a deity.



That doesn't mean we're special.



you must be very superstitious.
CHEESUS GROYST
2006-11-12 10:34:22 UTC
This question if indeed it is a question at all should have been asked in the math and science section, religion has no answers to mathematical problems, your conclusion is meaningless in this context.
anonymous
2006-11-12 12:59:47 UTC
You may have a point there!



Praise Odin!
Daimyo
2006-11-12 10:31:36 UTC
I don't think anybody can truly answer that question, Sir.



Have a nice day.
Evil Atheist Conspirator
2006-11-12 10:27:31 UTC
Kool.
Melandi
2006-11-12 10:33:18 UTC
WOW, that puts it into a new perspective!
anonymous
2006-11-12 10:31:56 UTC
Is that a question?
WonderWoman
2006-11-12 10:27:48 UTC
AMEN! I agree.
anonymous
2006-11-12 10:26:35 UTC
AMEN!
gwhiz1052
2006-11-12 10:30:35 UTC
Amen to that !!!!!!!!!!!!
GypsyGr-ranny
2006-11-12 10:30:22 UTC
Excellent! Thank you so much.



CONTINUITY OF REVELATION



107

Those who are uninformed of the world of reality, who do not comprehend existing things, who are without perception of the inner truth of creation, who do not penetrate the real mysteries of material and spiritual phenomena and who possess only a superficial idea of universal life and being are but embodiments of pure ignorance. They believe only that which they have heard from their fathers and ancestors. Of themselves they have no hearing, no sight, no reason, no intellect; they rely solely upon tradition. Such persons imagine that the dominion of God is an accidental dominion or kingdom.

For instance they believe that this world of existence was created six or seven thousand years ago; as if God did not reign before that time and had no creation before that period. They think that divinity is accidental, for to them divinity is dependent upon existing things whereas in reality as long as there has been a God there has been a creation. As long as there has been light, there have been recipients of that light, for light cannot become manifest unless those things which perceive and appreciate it exist. The world of divinity presupposes creation, presupposes recipients of bounty, presupposes the existence of worlds. No divinity can be conceived as separate from creation, for otherwise it would be like imagining an empire without a people. A king must needs have a kingdom, must needs have an army and subjects. Is it possible to be a king and have no country, no army, no subjects? This is an absurdity. If we say that there was a time when there was no country, no army and no subjects, how then could there have been a king and ruler? For these things are essential to a king.

Consequently just as the reality of divinity never had a beginning,—that is, God has ever been a creator, God has ever been a provider, God has ever been a quickener, God has ever been a bestower,—so there never has been a time when the attributes of God have not had expression. The sun is the sun because of its rays, because of its heat. Were we to conceive of a time when there was a sun without heat and light, it would imply that there had been no sun at all and that it became the sun afterward. So likewise if we say there was a time when God had no creation or created beings, a time when there were no recipients of His bounties and that His names and attributes had not been manifested, this would be equivalent to a complete denial of 108 divinity, for it would mean that divinity is accidental. To explain it still more clearly, if we think that fifty thousand years ago or one hundred thousand years ago there was no creation, that there were then no worlds, no human beings, no animals, this thought of ours would mean that previous to that period there was no divinity. If we should say that there was a time when there was a king but there were no subjects, no army, no country for him to rule over, it would really be asserting that there was a time when no king existed and that the king is accidental. It is therefore evident that inasmuch as the reality of divinity is without a beginning, creation is also without a beginning. This is as clear as the sun. When we contemplate this vast machinery of omnipresent power, perceive this illimitable space and its innumerable worlds it will become evident to us that the lifetime of this infinite creation is more than six thousand years; nay, it is very, very ancient.

Notwithstanding this, we read in Genesis in the Old Testament that the lifetime of creation is but six thousand years. This has an inner meaning and significance; it is not to be taken literally. For instance it is said in the Old Testament that certain things were created in the first day. The narrative shows that at that time the sun was not yet created. How could we conceive of a day if no sun existed in the heavens; for the day depends upon the light of the sun? Inasmuch as the sun had not been made, how could the first day be realized? Therefore these statements have significances other than literal.

To be brief; our purpose is to show that the divine sovereignty, the Kingdom of God, is an ancient sovereignty; that it is not an accidental sovereignty; just as a kingdom presupposes the existence of subjects, of an army, of a country; for otherwise the state of dominion, authority and kingdom cannot be conceived of. Therefore if we should imagine that the creation is accidental we would be forced to admit that the creator is accidental whereas the divine bounty is ever flowing and the rays of the Sun of Truth are continuously shining. No cessation is possible to the divine bounty, just as no cessation is possible to the rays of the sun. This is clear and obvious.

Thus there have been many holy Manifestations of God. One thousand years ago, two hundred thousand years ago, one million years ago the bounty of God was flowing, the radiance of God was shining, the dominion of God was existing.

Why do these holy Manifestations of God appear? What is the wisdom and purpose of their coming? What is the outcome of their mission? It is evident that human personality appears in two aspects,—the image or likeness of God and the aspect of Satan. The human 109 reality stands between these two,—the divine and the satanic. It is manifest that beyond this material body, man is endowed with another reality which is the world of exemplars constituting the heavenly body of man. In speaking, man says, “I saw,” “I spoke,” “I went.” Who is this “I”? It is obvious that this “I” is different from this body. It is clear that when man is thinking, it is as though he were consulting with some other person. With whom is he consulting? It is evident that it is another reality or one aside from this body with whom he enters into consultation when he thinks, “Shall I do this work or not?” “What will be the result of my doing this?” Or when he questions the other reality, “What is the objection to this work if I do it?” And then that reality in man communicates its opinion to him concerning the point at issue. Therefore that reality in man is clearly and obviously other than his body, an ego with which man enters into consultation and whose opinion man seeks.

Often a man makes up his mind positively about a matter; for instance he determines to undertake a journey. Then he thinks it over, that is, he consults his inner reality and finally concludes that he will give up his journey. What has happened? Why did he abandon his original purpose? It is evident that he has consulted his inner reality which expresses to him the disadvantages of such a journey, therefore he defers to that reality and changes his original intention.

Furthermore man sees in the world of dreams. He travels in the East, he travels in the West, although his body is stationary, his body is here. It is that reality in him which makes the journey while the body sleeps. There is no doubt that a reality exists other than the outward, physical reality. Again for instance a person is dead, is buried in the ground. Afterward you see him in the world of dreams and speak with him although his body is interred in the earth. Who is the person you see in your dreams, talk to and who also speaks with you? This again proves that there is another reality different from the physical one which dies and is buried. Thus it is certain that in man there is a reality which is not the physical body. Sometimes the body becomes weak but that other reality is in its own normal state. The body goes to sleep, becomes as one dead but that reality is moving about, comprehending things, expressing them and is even conscious of itself.

This other and inner reality is called the heavenly body, the ethereal form which corresponds to this body. This is the conscious reality which discovers the inner meaning of things, for the outer body of man does not discover anything. The inner ethereal reality grasps the mysteries of existence, discovers scientific truths and indicates their technical application. It discovers electricity, produces 110 the telegraph, the telephone and opens the door to the world of arts. If the outer material body did this, the animal would likewise be able to make scientific and wonderful discoveries, for the animal shares with man all physical powers and limitations. What then is that power which penetrates the realities of existence and which is not to be found in the animal? It is the inner reality which comprehends things, throws light upon the mysteries of life and being, discovers the heavenly Kingdom, unseals the mysteries of God and differentiates man from the brute. Of this there can be no doubt.

As we have before indicated, this human reality stands between the higher and the lower in man, between the world of the animal and the world of divinity. When the animal proclivity in man becomes predominant, he sinks even lower than the brute. When the heavenly powers are triumphant in his nature, he becomes the noblest and most superior being in the world of creation. All the imperfections found in the animal are found in man. In him there is antagonism, hatred and selfish struggle for existence; in his nature lurk jealousy, revenge, ferocity, cunning, hypocrisy, greed, injustice and tyranny. So to speak, the reality of man is clad in the outer garment of the animal, the habiliments of the world of nature, the world of darkness, imperfections and unlimited baseness.

On the other hand, we find in him justice, sincerity, faithfulness, knowledge, wisdom, illumination, mercy and pity coupled with intellect, comprehension, the power to grasp the realities of things and the ability to penetrate the truths of existence. All these great perfections are to be found in man. Therefore we say that man is a reality which stands between light and darkness. From this standpoint of view, his nature is threefold, animal, human and divine. The animal nature is darkness; the heavenly is light in light.

The holy Manifestations of God come into the world to dispel the darkness of the animal or physical nature of man, to purify him from his imperfections in order that his heavenly and spiritual nature may become quickened, his divine qualities awakened, his perfections visible, his potential powers revealed and all the virtues of the world of humanity latent within him may come to life. These holy Manifestations of God are the educators and trainers of the world of existence, the teachers of the world of humanity. They liberate man from the darkness of the world of nature, deliver him from despair, error, ignorance, imperfections and all evil qualities. They clothe him in the garment of perfections and exalted virtues. Men are ignorant; the Manifestations of God make them wise. They are animalistic; the Manifestations make them human. They are savage and cruel; the Manifestations lead them into kingdoms of light and love. They are 111 unjust; the Manifestations cause them to become just. Man is selfish; they sever him from self and desire. Man is haughty; they make him meek, humble and friendly. He is earthly; they make him heavenly. Men are material; the Manifestations transform them into semblance divine. They are immature children; the Manifestations develop them into maturity. Man is poor; they endow him with wealth. Man is base, treacherous and mean; the Manifestations of God uplift him into dignity, nobility and loftiness.

These holy Manifestations liberate the world of humanity from the imperfections which beset it and cause men to appear in the beauty of heavenly perfections. Were it not for the coming of these holy Manifestations of God all mankind would be found on the plane of the animal. They would remain darkened and ignorant like those who have been denied schooling and who never had a teacher or trainer. Undoubtedly such unfortunates will continue in their condition of need and deprivation.

If the mountains, hills and plains of the material world are left wild and uncultivated under the rule of nature, they will remain an unbroken wilderness; no fruitful tree to be found anywhere upon them. A true cultivator changes this forest and jungle into a garden, training its trees to bring forth fruit and causing flowers to grow in place of thorns and thistles. The holy Manifestations are the ideal gardeners of human souls, the divine cultivators of human hearts. The world of existence is but a jungle of disorder and confusion, a state of nature producing nothing but fruitless, useless trees. The ideal gardeners train these wild uncultivated human trees, cause them to become fruitful, water and cultivate them day by day so that they adorn the world of existence and continue to flourish in the utmost beauty.

Consequently we cannot say that the divine bounty has ceased, that the glory of divinity is exhausted or the Sun of Truth sunk into eternal sunset, into that darkness which is not followed by light, into that night which is not followed by a sunrise and dawn, into that death which is not followed by life, into that error which is not followed by truth. Is it conceivable that the Sun of Reality should sink into an eternal darkness? No! the sun was created in order that it may shed light upon the world and train all the kingdoms of existence. How then can the ideal Sun of Truth, the Word of God, set forever? For this would mean the cessation of the divine bounty, and the divine bounty by its very nature is continuous and ceaseless. Its sun is ever shining, its cloud is ever producing rain, its breezes are ever blowing, its bestowals are all-comprehending, its gifts are ever perfect. Consequently we must always anticipate, always be hopeful and pray to 112 God that he will send unto us his holy Manifestations in their most perfect might, with the divine penetrative power of his Word, so that these heavenly ones may be distinguished above all other beings in every respect, in every attribute, just as the glorious sun is distinguished above all stars.

Although the stars are scintillating and brilliant, the sun is superior to them in luminous effulgence. Similarly these holy divine Manifestations are and must always be distinguished above all other beings in every attribute of glory and perfection, in order that it may be proven that the Manifestation is the true teacher and real trainer; that he is the Sun of Truth endowed with a supreme splendor and reflecting the beauty of God. Otherwise it is not possible for us to train one human individual and then after training him, believe in him and accept him as the holy Manifestation of divinity. The real Manifestation of God must be endowed with divine knowledge and not dependent upon learning acquired in schools. He must be the educator, not the educated; his standard intuition instead of tuition. He must be perfect and not imperfect, great and glorious instead of being weak and impotent. He must be wealthy in the riches of the spiritual world and not indigent. In a word, the holy divine Manifestation of God must be distinguished above all others of mankind in every aspect and qualification, in order that he may be able to effectively train the human body politic, eliminate the darkness enshrouding the human world, uplift humanity from a lower to a higher kingdom, be able through the penetrative power of his Word to promote and spread broadcast the beneficent message of universal peace among men, bring about the unification of mankind in religious belief through a manifest divine power, harmonize all sects and denominations and convert all nativities and nationalities into one nativity and fatherland.

It is our hope that the bounties of God will encompass us all, the gifts of the divine become manifest, the lights of the Sun of Truth illumine our eyes, inspire our hearts, convey to our souls cheerful glad-tidings of God, cause our thoughts to become lofty and our efforts to be productive of glorious results. In a word, it is our hope that we may attain to that which is the summit of human aspirations and wishes.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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