Atheist: Is it impossible to prove to you that Santa Clause does NOT exist?

Question

If so, then does that mean you are open to the POSSIBILITY that Santa Clause DOES exist?
Think hard.
I read & re read all answers.

Answer 1

If Santa Claus exists, then he is apparently not who we know him (fictionally) to be.



However, I'm fairly certain certain that my dad (the one that REALLY put presents under the Christmas tree) does exist.



In fact, he was just here about half an hour ago, killing a spider that was in my window.



So, you *could* prove that someone named Santa Claus does exist. However, it wouldn't be the same Santa Claus spoken of in legend, therefore your point is, well, pointless.

Answer 2

It's impossible to prove a negative, however for the sake of practicality, it's possible to ASSUME he does not exist, which is exactly what I do. Allowing for the existence of Santa Claus would bring all sorts of problems into the world, not the least of which being time travel.



(I too read, and re-read, all answers... and I SPELL CHECK my questions. The plural of atheist is atheists, and the last name Claus is not spelled with an e. A clause is a syntactic construction containing a subject and predicate and forming part of a sentence or constituting a whole simple sentence.)

Answer 3

There's a general consensus among reasonable adults that Santa Clause does not exist, that he is a fabrication to bring joy and season cheer to children.



There's a general consensus that God does exist, and atheists are in the minority.



It'd be like a 40 year old believer in Santa that would be made fun of by non-believers because everyone else for that ridiculous belief because everyone knows Santa is a made up story.



But in the case of religion, this is the opposite case. Non-believers who say a lack of evidence backs up a belief, therefore they won't believe in the "belief" are in the minority. And the believers are in the majority. Ridiculous.



But as in the case of God and Santa, I'm never completely closed to the idea of them existing because yes, it would be impossible to prove they don't exist, but I can make an assumption that they do not exist because of complete lack of evidence. Completely closing my mind to the possibility of being proven wrong would make me just as "faithful" as believers, only I would be believing in science. But I do not have any sort of faith, I just follow the proof. I'm not an agnostic because I feel those sort of people are the fence sitters, and I'd rather sit on one side or the other. And I'm going to the side of logic and reason.

Answer 4

Of course it is not possible to prove that Santa Claus does not exist. Santa Claus might exist on some planet in the universe you will not be able to travel to within the next million of years. The probability is low, close to zero, but does not quite reach 0. Hence Santa Claus might exist somewhere in the universe. However, if Santa Claus exists on a planet one million light years away and does not affect your life in one way or the other you can for practical purposes ignore the possibility of his existence.

Answer 5

Ask the children of poor families that don't get christmas presents from santa, if santa exists. (Or the parents of other families who have been pretending to be santa). I'm not atheist but this argument will not convince anyone of God's existence. If you define who and what Santa is and what he does, then it's easy to see that it's just a myth, because you can see that he doesn't actually do those things

Answer 6

No hard thinking necessary.

When you can prove that NOT believing in Santa Clause will doom me to some mythical hell, THEN your question would have some validity.

Since no one's eternal security rests on the existence or NON-existence of Santa Clause, or Tinker Bell, or the Easter Bunny, your question is really an exercise in futility.

Answer 7

Ok you win Santa clause exists. Are you in love w/ the double negative ( impossible NOT ) or are you just being difficult on purpose? Why ask atheists to think hard if christians are notorious for not thinking at all? But ok -You are asking about the inability to prove a negative. But the 'swap' is , I presume, God so God = Santa Clause. You are arguing against your own cause unless your cause is actually big on Santa.Or unless you're a new member of Team Atheist in which case I admire your subtlety.Oh and I want to thank all the Christians for not killing me. I appreciate your self-restraint. I know it's difficult to not kill me so thank you for letting me live.And thanks to C Junk for pointing out to me how ungracious I've been.

Answer 8

I'd like to get something straight to certain morons in the world who know nothing about logic.



It is possible to prove negative premises in some cases. It is not now, nor has it ever been POSSIBLE to prove negative existence.



It is not logically possible to disprove the existence of God, Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy, Leprechauns, Fire-Breathing Dragons, because to prove their non-existence would require Omniscience and nobody has that.



Non-existence of ANYTHING cannot be proven at all, in any way shape or fashion. Existence IS possible to prove. Non-existence is not possible, and will never be possible.



Nobody on Earth could prove that Santa Claus or Mermaids do not exist.



Still, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the existence of such unlikely beasties verges towards the infinitessimal and approaches the limit of 0%, a limit which like some limits in Calculus are approached but never actually reached. That's another reason why non-existence is not possible to prove. At best the chance of something existing approaches 0% and that's about it.



Also I hear over and over again a very common logical fallacy known as the Fallacy from Ignorance or Ad Ignorantiam fallacy.



It has a positive and negative form. A Fallacy is a flawed, deceptive and bogus form of reasoning. It is not valid and any form like it is equally invalid.



Example: You cannot prove that God does not exist, therefore God DOES exist. [BOGUS!]



likewise the reverse: You cannot prove that God exists,

Therefore God DOES NOT exist. [BOGUS!]



or



No scientist can prove that Mermaids do not exist, as that'd require omniscience, therefore THEY MUST exist [somewhere, somehow]. [WRONG! BOGUS!]



The Ignorance Fallacy in a nutshell is the argument that goes "Well, you can't prove me wrong, so I must be right" or

"You can't prove yourself right, so you must be wrong!"



You have commited the Ad Ignorantiam fallacy by suggesting that if the people here cannot disprove Santa Claus, then we must be open to the possibility of Santa existing? [And then by inference--judging by your opening "Atheist"--those who cannot prove God's nonexistence must be open to the possibility that God exists.



OK, I'm open to the possibility. Now please send me enough verifiable evidence to convince me that the odds of God's existence are a flat 100% and I'll convert immediately. Until then, I prefer to take the agnostic stance and suspend judgment. Besides until I know exactly what you mean by the word God--[do you mean omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent One God of Christianity or do you mean the superhuman being like Zeus? or some Force like the Force of Star Wars? or God as Nature?]---this argument won't even begin.



How can I argue against God with some person who uses an ambiguity like "God equals love". To deny God is to deny the existence of love too? I believe in Nature so if God=Nature as Spinoza infered, then I'd have to come out as a believer in God myself! What if you defined God as "The Evolutionary Process that creates all life?" who could not believe then?



Your argument is totally worthless. At least with Santa Claus, I know more or less what you have in mind. Oh BTW, Santa Claus is based on St Nicholas, who may have actually existed. The Santa Claus of modern fantasy and TV shows is a pure unadulterated fiction. But St. Nicholas the Christian Saint may very well have existed.



Yes, I can give Santa a non 0% chance of existing, but still the odds are so infinitessimal, that I've better things to do with my time than worry about the existence of Santa Claus or flying reindeer? Capisce.



And spell it right. "Santa Claus" not "Santa Clause" which is the name of a movie a few years back. That only further damages your credibility which is pretty much also approaching 0% credibility on line with the odds of mermaids existing.



Science isn't much into exactitude anyway. It's all greater or lesser degrees of probability. The more probable something is, the more you put behind it.



Getting a billion heads in a row with an undoctored perfectly balanced coin is logically possible, but the odds are so low, this Universe would have long since died out and every star darkened or collapsed into a Black Hole before you reached the target number!!



However, the odds that your crappy reasoning will convince anybody is pretty much a flat out 0%.

Answer 9

Not impossible, but according to data- not likely.



There is the legend of St. Nick, who left little gifts in people's homes. I believe it is incredibly likely he existed. I haven't researched it enough to know all the details of his life.



We have satellite photos of the North Pole, and have traversed the region often enough to find there is no evidence of a toy workshop. We have never witnessed reindeer flying. We have snuck down on Christmas Eve to find our parents, not Santa, placing the presents! We have unmasked the Santas in malls as HOAXES with FAKE BEARDS!



So, by interpreting the evidence....either Santa is a highly intelligent secret agent...or not real.

Answer 10

I wish people would stop talking about Santa that way. He is real! Hear me? HE IS REAL !!! I have seen him and sat on his lap and everything and he brings me lots of stuff at Christmas and I even visit his place at the North Pole and seen Mrs. Clause and watch the elfs working. So there! Santa is too real so there!

Answer 11

Anything "might" exist. It's a big universe, and we're aware of such an infinitesimally minute fraction of it that practically anything we can say about it is in the nature of an inexcusable presumption.



That said, we have to deal in probabilities based on what we DO know (or think we know). Is there a Santa Claus, or a God, or a Flying Spaghetti Monster, or a teapot orbiting Pluto? All we can do is extrapolate from what we take to be the "givens" in our collective body of knowledge.



For all that, we might all be "brains in vats." We might all be hardwired to the Matrix. We might all be characters in a dream dreamt by Brahma. By the nature of the case, we'd have no means of ever becoming conscious of the fact. STILL, if we are sane, we deal in probabilities within the illusion.



So it's unlikely that Santa Claus exists.

Answer 12

Possible? Well, in some ways, just about anything is possible, but some things are so very unlikely that to act on the possibility of their reality would be madness. I don't leave out a stockings in hopes it just might be filled, nor do I kill strangers on the odd chance that it will appease Kali. I keep an open mind, or try to, but also I try to behave in a rational manner.



Is my point of view clear? if not, let me know.

Answer 13

people are going to say he doesn't exist due to the fact that we are simply not used to that type of activities following a guy who jumps into chimneys to give toys. However I don't believe he exists.



Santa Claus was and has derived from st. nick. He was known for giving presents and such.

Answer 14

Yes, because you cannot prove someone doesn't exist. All you can say is that not seen so far.



Of course he exists though, how else would i know exactly who you are talking about?



Everything exists in some form or another.



Define your terms of 'existence', then it will be an interesting question.



Personally, most things are possible,just not probable.

Answer 15

Santa exists at the mall, but the classical story of the man in the big red suit going to everyone's house on christmas eve is not possible.

Answer 16

I am just as open to the possibility of Santa existing as I am to a "god".



And that's not much.



But it's certainly not a closed case, because I do not have ultimate knowledge of the universe.



Although my genetically engineered intellect lets me say with confidence that my "best guess" is pretty accurate.



Khaaaaaan!

Answer 17

From a purely scientific perspective, it is impossible to prove the non-existence of something. Also, from a purely scientific perspective, there is more tangible evidence that Santa Claus exists than there is that God exists.



A philosophical perspective, you might say that proof of the non-existence of something does not exist. Therefore, proof of this statement does not exist either. Go figure.

Answer 18

Hmmm The character of Santa Clause was invented during the early 1800's derived from St. Nicholas, who was a real person , however, much 'stuff' was added since then to make him out to well..what he is today.

The real truth about him is not all bed and roses, he spent time in prison for his beliefs actually and participated in the council of Nicaea

Answer 19

If I can hold an apple in my right hand and say, "This is an apple" and then hold out my left hand and hold a book and say, "This is a not-apple" then I suppose you could hold out your right hand and say, "This is a NOT-God"..... but what would you hold in your other hand so you could say, "This is a IS-God"? If I can do it, why cant you?



To prove something is a NOT-existence, all you need to do is show an IS-existence. If we can look around the room and see all the things that are a NOT- God, why cant we look around the room and show the IS-God?

Answer 20

There was a guy back in the day that did give gifts out to kids that were less than privledged. So, he did exist at one point. Clearly he's not around now since no one is claiming they got Christmas gifts from an unknown source on Christmas morning.

Answer 21

If you can prove he exists.



But I doubt that you or anyone can prove that a man who lives the north pole flies on a reindeer-driven sleigh to every economically moderate Christian house in the world, through the chimney, and leaves presents-- the same way there's no proof of god.



Our beliefs lie within the realm of our empirical knowledge. That realm can always grow, but it needs extensive new proofs to do so.

Answer 22

I am open to all possibilities.



Plus I saw Santa, even if he looked like my Dad in a suit...

Answer 23

and the toothfairy, and leprechauns and Zeus and Thor and....



There's always the possibility. But the probability is so very miniscule.



Are you arguing that you can prove that Santa Claus doesn't exist?

Answer 24

But I see Santa all over the place, in person.



I saw 2 of them at my brewpub this December, one was riding one of those 2 wheeled things with a pole that's motorized, screw me if I can't remember what the name of those things are called.

Answer 25

Sure, there's as much possibility that Santa exists as there is that God exists. It isn't none, but it's so close as to be effectively none. Thanks for agreeing with us.



Edit: What does reasonable doubt have to do with anything? This isn't a criminal trial here.

Answer 26

You can not prove a negative. Santa has one thing in his favor, he never asks for money.

Answer 27

Santa Claus does exist. He was born on December 25th.



That Jesus guy, was born in Spring, however.

Answer 28

The reason to believe in Santa Claus is exactly equal to the reason to believe in any deity.

Good point.

Answer 29

wouldnt religous people be more likely to believe in myth like santa claus? and you could prove that santa doesnt exist because people have been to the north pole

Answer 30

I need proof. Since it doesn't logically make sense that Santa exists, then I choose to believe that he doesn't.

Answer 31

Santa Clause is not anymore real than God. Never has been and never will be.

Answer 32

I'm with Frank and Santa even played with me for awhile!

Answer 33

"Santa Claus" is precisely defined. "God" is vaguely defined. Furthermore, some definitions of "God" are contradictory. It is easier to dismiss a precisely defined absurdity than it is a vaguely defined absurdity.

Answer 34

WHAT?????????





You just need to be quiet right now!





*sniff*....you don't really mean that, right?

Santa brought me cute bras and new shoes last christmas!



I don't understand your question at all. I think you're being mean.

Answer 35

Uhm... I'm open to the possibility that there is a Mad magazine from 1968 on Mars, but I don't believe there is one.

Answer 36

i think god exists because of the sheer existence and awareness of our world and universe. those who tend to be scientifically enlightened are not really intellectually honest.



they need to explain matter from a vacuum in a non-supernatural way, and they cannot, and this is why Hawking and Einstein believe in god.

Answer 37

huh?



can you prove a negative?



please try.



what you CAN do, is take certain aspects of claims on how he does exist, find contradictions. contradictions cannot exist as a truth, which furthers evidence for his nonexistence.



now if i believe he doesnt exist, its up to you to prove to me he does. not me to prove he doesnt...

Answer 38

Of course we are open. We are open to all provable evidence. And like you will read and reread. But the evidence must exist....we won't accept it on "faith"

Answer 39

Well, I vadalize property, steal, smoke weed, drink, listen to punk and have a nasty habit of setting stuff on fire, and never once have I gotten coal in my stocking.





^_^

Answer 40

im not agnostic on santa's existance. i BELIEVE he doesnt exist. Same goes for god.

Answer 41

It is possible to prove he does not exist, since the Coca Cola company willingly say they made him up as an advert campaign years and years ago.



Next question.

Answer 42

No. It's not impossible to prove.

Answer 43

Santa is real Santa is real, the bad man is lying the bad man is lying.

Answer 44

it takes faith to believe in anything absolutely in the absence of evidence.

Answer 45

oh gosh!!! what a terrible comparison!!!!!! how bout i start the 1st church of santa clause???

Answer 46

how can you prove what you can not see it or never supposed to see

Answer 47

Santa does exist ....I sat on his lap.

Answer 48

Very clever that. Take a point sir.