Do creationists know their arguments are dishonest?

Question

Do creationists who say things like "I didnt come from a monkey"
or "Darwin said the eyeball was too complex for evolution"
or "Dawkins thinks life on this planet was seeded by aliens"

Do they know they are using dishonest garbage arguments?
Or do they really believe them?

If they know their arguments are dishonest why do they keep doing it since everytime they do they just end up looking like a comlete idiot?

If they do believe those arguments why do they think they know more about evolution or whatever than biologists?

Answer 1

The people who make statements like that aren't necessarily being dishonest. Dishonesty would imply that they're actually intelligent and industrious enough to learn about evolution before they start running their mouths about it. Such is not the case.

Answer 2

I am a Creationist, and I am NOT dishonest. I don't say any of those things above Except that I didn't come from a monkey. Being a creationist simply means looking at science from a biblical view. Assuming the Bible is accurate in EVERY WAY!

Evolutionists Are opposite. You no what though, you can't prove Evolution.... You can't give me an example of evolution. It seems evolution is something you just believe in kind of like religion!!!! That's why it is called the THEORY of Evolution!!!! Their are plenty of scientists that believe the Bible, and are creation scientists. Who's the idiot now?????



PS: I am not uneducated, I have been studying Science for years now, Evolutionists are always changing their ideas because the find their ideas to be wrong. It is a guessing game for them. They can't disprove creationism... Just sling mud at it as you do! Do you know that much of the information about Evolution that is taught in schools today is seriously outdated? Evolutionists are knowingly teaching lies to brainwash Young Adults into thinking they got it all together





I'd love to discus some scientific facts with you. You may e-mail if you have Questions....

Answer 3

Creationists do not use dishonest arguments but you assume they do.



Evolution keeps being changed because it is often refuted and so new ideas passed off as evidence keep propping it up. Almost no scientists who believe in natural selection think that it can cause one type of organism to change to another one. Since Natural selection happens but does not allow for macro evolution the mutation theory was developed often reffered to as Neo Darwinism. But guess what? It has also been a dead end in that we cannot show that mutations allow one kind of an organism to change to another kind either.



Ok, so a couple of creative scientists came up with punctuated eqilibrium which means that changes took place so fast that there are no record of it happening. In other words a scientific miracle happened. See its ok to believe in miracles if they do not involve God only the god of naturalism. Those scientists actually said that one day a bird, laid an egg and out came a reptile. No Kidding! Of course there is no real corrollary of that to real life but what are facts to a stanch evolutionist who is commited to a philosophy or religion of natualism.



So after all this who is being dishonest? Creationists accept the Bible in general the story of creation and also the evidence in nature as well. What you have to understand is that if a creator did create the earth and universre and produced the Bible as well then there will be no contradiction between them. They all bear witness of each other. No changes needed for the Bible because the story is set and nature testifies to it unlike evolution which needs assumtions and new assumptions to keep trying to make it seem belivable.

Answer 4

Probably many of them don't fully appreciate how dishonest their arguments are. There is a sort of willfull ignorance mindset that makes it desirable to obtain the bulk of their information from only the most dis-honest and hostile of sources.

It's something akin to reasoning that one doesn't need to study Nazism to appreciate how bad of an idea it is.

Take a look at the Chick tracts that deal with biology, or the mindless crap that the Creation Research Institute, or similiar entities dispense.

I can only guess that the propagandists probably do know more of biology than those they write their literature for, if only to be able to more effectivley discredit it, but I am not certain that this is the case either.

The anti-science/anti-evolution literature seems to be purposely written to convince precisely those who have little or no education in the subjects to begin with.

I don't think that most of it was ever meant to persuade those with even a rudimentary science education.

The method seems to be to persuade those who don't know to begin with against science, and then reinforce the prejiduce, being careful to frame the points in such a way that they do not encourage real curiousity to confirm or deny the charges in and of themselves.

Then too, you can make a case that at least the leaders of the anti-science/creationist movement must be aware of their dishonesty. Those Christians, and other religious, that have been presented with accurate complete information on both biology, and their own faith, usually do not obsess about how to reconcile the two. In other words, the strict either/or argument that creationists like to make quickly breaks down with factual, unbiased education.

So, I tend to think that most creationists aren't aware of the dishonesty of their contentions, though I do think the leaders of the anti-science movement may well be.

Given my own contention that there is nothing particularly Christian about attemtping to refute and discredit science in general, or evolution in particular, and that the goals of the movement are truly political, and not spirtual in scope, I find it difficult to entertain any other scenario.

Answer 5

No, I don't believe so.



cfi_mark makes a very valid point when he mentions what are called cognitive biases. In this particular case confirmation bias.



Christianity is set up in such a way that there is too much riding on the Genesis story. For without it the entire religion would pretty much collapse. That's going to be rather difficult to come to terms with and so 'creationists' (I dislike the term, but still ..) find 'evidence' that backs up their argument. They see 'Evolutionists' (urgh!) doing this as well. But in their eyes, it's the scientists that are 'biased'. IMO.



'Biased', yes. Dishonest, no.

.

Answer 6

i don't think they are intentionally being dishonest... they're just led to believe what they wanna believe, or living in denial. i took an ancient and medieval civilizations class in college... the proof of evolution is quite obvious. if you compare the remains of early hominids up to homosapiens there is too much evidence to deny the similarities. early hominids were more monkey than man, then they became more man than monkey. no one can say exactly how everything began... a series of scientific processes helped life along the way. there are documented cases of creating life from nothing. watch the documentary "the origins of life" you can find it on surfthechannel.com life isn't something that was just BOOM, here we are, it is a process that happened over millions of years and is still happening today. scientists recently discovered prehistoric type creatures thriving near hydrothermal vents deep in the ocean... whole scores of plants and animals living without nutrients from the sun. over time, such organisms evolve into other things. its not a hard concept to grasp unless one is blinded by their ignorance. believe in whatever god you want, but no one created the world in 6 days, that has been PROVEN.

Answer 7

It is simple I believe the creation account in the Bible to be literal because the Bible is God's word, and God can not be a liar or wrong.. Any other person who puts forward a theory or argument are merely putting forward an idea or thought, open to argument and possible refute. So I believe that which is certain not which may be and so I am a creationist.

Answer 8

You're apparently operating under the assumption that there aren't any biologists who believe in supernatural special creation in 6 solar days less than 10,000 years ago. That's not that case.



If the arguments look dishonest to you, it's because you have a fixed set of presuppositions through which you filter the information. I have a different set of presuppositions, and I see evolution as a foolish lie, and one that doesn't even have the genetic, geological, biological, paleontological evidence behind it. Anyone who claims to have proven evolution, or to have proven the earth is billions of years old is not telling you the truth. Creationists have the same data as those who bow at the altar of evolutionism, and come to much different conclusions. There are no scientific FACTS which are inconsistent with a straightforward reading of Genesis. Evolution and the age of the earth are not facts of science. They are philosophies about the untestable, unrepeatable past. Now, if we only had a reliable eyewitness account (which can trump circumstantial evidence in court), perhaps would could get an answer closer to the truth. And don't claim that natural selection is proof of evolution. Evolutionists love to change their definitions in the middle of an argument so that it's impossible for them to be wrong.



"believe in whatever god you want, but no one created the world in 6 days, that has been PROVEN."



No, it hasn't. Unless you can find someone that was there. Old-earthers are required to make the assumption of uniformitarianism. They think the process which are acting in the universe today are the processes by which the universe came into being. It's a ridiculous assumption. It would akin to being a car mechanic and claiming that because you know how a car operates, you know FOR A FACT how it came to in existence. The processes of Creation are not the process of operation.



"scientists recently discovered prehistoric type creatures thriving near hydrothermal vents deep in the ocean"



which should lead you to be asking why they haven't died out after "millions" of years?

Answer 9

If Jamie Marie has been studying science for years as she says, how come she is unaware that creationism violates one of the most basic, fundamental 'rules' of science--you CAN NOT invoke the supernatural to provide ANY explanation in science. As soon as you do, it is no longer science. Its something else entirely. I suspect all the "studying" she has been doing is reading creationists books.

Answer 10

But evolved from when and where? What started that first atom in the universe that evolved into where we are right now? I would like to see the basis for that argument, where does this information come from? I don't care about the monkey to me theory, which by the way is just a theory, I want to know where that first little spark occurred that started this all, from where did that first little spark evolve from?



If an evolutionist or anti-creationist is so superbly educated, how come they only have theories and not concrete proof?

Answer 11

the finished "Wedge technique" covers all 3. Google it. There are in basic terms 2 categories of Creationists: The intentionally cheating charlatans and the dupes that fall for their tripe.

Answer 12

I think one Creationist knows the arguments are dishonest, and that is the one who invents them. The other Creationists are merely intellectually lazy, as they read what the one putz writes and claim it as an established argument without really investigating or attempting to understand.



In other words: you have a dishonest shepherd and a lot of lazy sheep.

Answer 13

I believe they are usually parroting their preachers or some garbage they read on a Creationist website.

Besides, Americans are, by and large, scientifically illiterate.

Consider,... most Americans learned everything they know about evolution in their 9th grade biology class.

That is NOT what I considered "informed."



And then there are those that are just SO heavily invested in the "god myth" that they wouldn't believe it if they were hit over the head with a dinosaur legbone.

Answer 14

Well



Garbage In



Garbage Out.

Answer 15

Actually Dawkins does hold some possibility for Directed Panspermia............

Answer 16

give them a break. they think evolution is supposed to account for everything since the beginning of time, and that if it doesn't it's a lie.

Answer 17

Whose being dishonest? I've never used those ideas.

Answer 18

Because we believe what the Bible says. Evolutioin constantly changes because they find out that what they said each time was completely wrong because it couldn't be proven.



God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He and His Word have never changed. We can truly believe and rely on what He says is true.

Answer 19

Most creationists that I have dealt with do not have even a basic level of knowledge about evolution, and simply regurgitate talking points from someone in their religious cult. They aren't thinking, just fighting against reality because it differs from the fairy tale they cling to.

Answer 20

They may be dishonest in your opinion.



The facts of the fossils that they use for evolution show they have been faked and are purposely misclassified. What do so called intelligent scientist fake fossils and puropsely misclassify them to support evolution?



So who really has the lack of brain cells the ones who fake them and decieves people or those who believe what they say and ignore the evidence that the fossils have been faked and misclassified?

Answer 21

No, Creationists actually give really good intelligent arguements, but most if not all have been refuted

Answer 22

I think they are genuinely non educable. Ignorant intentionally. However it doesnt detract from the joy I feel in making fun of the whole thing.

Answer 23

Usually.... they don't.



And most recently, they have Ben Stein droning and posturing on the big screen, telling them that the big bad scientists are mistreating the brave Creationists who dare challenge empirical inquiry with their intrepid "God did it" notion.

Answer 24

Its like cornering a rabid dog. Its not gonna be fair.

Answer 25

No they do not know that but you cannot blame them. Afterall, to deny actual evidence in favor of religious nonsense is not something an intelligent person would do.

Answer 26

They are fed the information from propogandists and then they spew it like it is factual without checking.

Answer 27

Crazy people never know they're crazy.

Answer 28

Creationists are using no dishonest arguments.



You atheists say the universe created itself. But science says that is impossible. No reputable scientist thesed days believes in an infinite or eternal universe.



It is impossible for something to come into being from absolute noting with absolutely no cause. That would violate the laws of thermodynamics. Plus, there has never been a case of inanimate matter coming to life in any laboratory.



What is dishonest is for atheists to claime that the universe created itself, that inanimate matter spontaneously began to live all with no cause. And somehow genetic diversity occured with no cause. And then to claim that it is all proven scientific fact.

Answer 29

Face it. How much more idiotic can you look than believing in invisible people who can hear your thoughts?

Answer 30

The Bible is an exact science

Answer 31

YOURE THE ONE LYING NOT US.....

aliens are really demons....