Why did Jesus tell the thief next to him that on that day he would be with him in paradise?

Question

Luke 23:43 (NIV)
"I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

How could this be if Jesus went to Hades for three days?

Answer 1

It is fiction!



The bible is what is called "Faction" A fictional story set in a factual time and place. Thus the time, place and real historical characters are all correct but the fictional characters and stories are not!



There is not one single mention of Jesus in the entire Roman record - that is right - not one! At the same time as he was supposed to have been around there were a number of Jews claiming to be the messiah - all of whom are well recorded!



There is not a single contemporary record from any source and even the bible mentions of him like all other references were not written until many years after his supposed death!



He was supposed to have been a huge problem to the Romans and produced wonderful miracles but still not one contemporary record?



Even the bible mentions of him like all other references were not written until many years after his supposed death!



Pilate is recorded in the Roman record as a somewhat lack luster man but no mention of a Jesus, a trial or crucifixion that would surely have been used to make him look brighter!



At best he was an amalgam of those others but almost certainly never existed!

Answer 2

For Nous -



Flavius Josephus was a historian to the Romans - and he DID montion Jesus by name, and said in his writings that he was considered by some to be the Messiah of the Jews. Of course, the "some" were the Christians who accepted him.



Hades is an "abode" or a "resting place" for the dead. If Jesus had not been TRULY dead, there would not have been a need for the resurrection. Resurrection is defined as a bring back to life. Nothing about Hades can be defined as a "paradise".



So if, as one person said, paradise is another word for heaven, why does the Bible say that Jesus did not ascend to "heaven" UNTIL 40 days AFTER his resurrection? He would have already been in heaven.



To be logical, we must realize that Jesus was speaking to the evil doer of a future event.



The evil doer himself was also thinking of the future, because HE said in Luke 23:42 (the verse right before the one asked about) -



"Jesus, remember me WHEN you get into your kingdom." He knew that Jesus would not be IN his kingdom at the moment of death, since that put Jesus into Hades. The evil doer realized there would be a passage of time - first for Jesus to be resurrected, then to ascend to heaven, and then a waiting period before he would be installed as king. - Psalm 110:1



When Jesus' kingship includes "all enemies being placed as a stool for his feet", THEN the evil doer can be resurrected also into paradise.



Any mention of paradise would also logically include all enemies being removed from the earthly scene.



So, Jesus was assuring the evil doer that he WOULD remember him when the time came for this paradise to take place on earth. Jesus would see to it personally that this evil doer was resurrected to live in that paradise to come.

Answer 3

He didn't.



One’s understanding of Luke 23:43 is greatly influenced by the PUNCTUATION used by the translator.



There was NO punctuation in the original Greek Bible manuscripts.



The Encyclopedia Americana (1956, Vol. XXIII, p. 16) states:

“No attempt to punctuate is apparent in the earlier manuscripts and inscriptions of the Greeks.”





Not until the 9th century C.E. did such punctuation come into use. Should Luke 23:43 read, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” (RS), or should it be, ‘Truly I say to you today, You will be with me in Paradise’?



???



The teachings of Christ and the rest of the Bible must be the basis for determination, and NOT A COMMA inserted in the text CENTURIES AFTER Jesus said those words.



The Emphasised Bible translated by J. B. Rotherham agrees with the punctuation in the New World Translation. In a footnote on Luke 23:43, German Bible translator L. Reinhardt says:

“The punctuation presently used [by most translators] in this verse is undoubtedly false and contradictory to the entire way of thinking of Christ and the evildoer. . . . [Christ] certainly did not understand paradise to be a subdivision of the realm of the dead, but rather the restoration of a paradise on earth.”



The Bible DOES NOT agree with the view that Jesus and the evildoer went to heaven on the same day that Jesus spoke to him. At Luke 9:22 Jesus had foretold that, after his being killed, he would not be raised up until THE THIRD DAY.



During that three-day period he most certainly WAS NOT in heaven, because at John 20:17 following his resurrection he told Mary Magdalene: “I have not yet ascended to the Father.”



It was 40 days AFTER Jesus’ resurrection that his disciples saw him lifted up from the earth and out of their sight as he began his ascent to heaven.—Acts 1:3, 6-11.



The evildoer did not meet the requirements to go to heaven even at some later time. He WAS NOT “born again”—being neither baptized in water nor begotten by God’s spirit. Holy spirit WAS NOT POURED OUT upon Jesus’ disciples until more than 50 days AFTER the evildoer’s death (John 3:3, 5; Acts 2:1-4). On the day of his death, Jesus had made with those ‘who had stuck with him in his trials’ a covenant for a heavenly kingdom. The evildoer had no such record of faithfulness and was not included.—Luke 22:28-30.



When would Jesus ‘get into his kingdom’ and fulfill his Father’s purpose to make the earth a paradise? The book of Revelation, written about 63 years after the statements recorded at Luke 23:42, 43 were made, indicates that these events were still in the future.





Ciao and Agape!

Answer 4

Good question.



The answer lies, not in the sense of the person beside Jesus being with Jesus in paradise on that very day, but as to where the comma is placed in the text which changes the entire meaning of the sentence.



There is no reason to deny the rendering of Luke 23:43 as, "I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise." In fact, considering the reasoning provided in your additional details, this makes much more sense.



None of the earliest manuscripts (up to the 9th century A.D.) originally had capitalization or punctuation. Later copyists have added punctuation wherever they felt it should be. So just because a modern text writer decides where he wants the punctuation and capitalization to be in his interpretation of the original text does not mean that is how the original Bible writer intended the meaning.



We see The Emphasized Bible by Joseph B. Rotherham also punctuating this scripture to produce the meaning found in the NWT:



"Verily I say unto thee this day: With me shalt thou be in Paradise."



And the footnote for Luke 23:43 in Lamsa's translation admits:



"Ancient texts were not punctuated. The comma could come before or after today."



The Concordant Literal New Testament renders it: "43 And Jesus said to him, 'Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise.'"



2001 Translation – An American English Bible: 43 And [Jesus] replied, `I tell you this today; you will be with me in Paradise.'



A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by E.W.Bullinger, DD., page 811 says:



"'And Jesus said to him, Verily, to thee I say this day, with Me shalt thou be in the Paradise.' The words today being made solemn and emphatic. Thus, instead of a remembrance, when He shall come in...His kingdom, He promises a presence in association (meta, 'with') Himself. And this promise he makes on that very day when he was dying.... Thus we are saved (1) the trouble of explaining why Jesus did not answer the question on its own terms; and (2) the inconvenience of endorsing the punctuation of the [KJV] as inspired; and we also place this passage in harmony with numberless passages in the O.T., such as 'Verily I say unto you this day,' etc.; 'I testify unto you this day.' etc. Deut.vi.6; vii.1; x.13; xi.8;,13,23; xii.13; xix.9; xxvii.4; xxxi.2, etc., where the Septuagint corresponds to Luke xxii.43."

Answer 5

The key message is that the thief showed genuine repentance by recognizing that he deserved his execution.



Many convicts pretend to repent in hopes of escaping their sentences. This is the opposite of repentance. Genuine repentance recognizes that restitution is owed for crime. Compare Zacchaeus, who repaid everyone he had cheated. The thief (likely a robber who had murdered his victims) could not bring them back to life, and so he deserved capital justice.



Concerning the timetable, the belief that Jesus descended into Hades does not preclude an immediate visit with his Father in Heaven, presenting him with the crucified thief.



Cheers,

Bruce

Answer 6

Jews believed that Hell was divided into two places. Hades for bad people and Paradise for good people. Jesus descended into hell to collect the good and take them to Heaven ( now that Heaven was opened). The good thief acknowledged the Jesus was lord when he said "Lord remember me" so he was saved.

Romans call Paradise the Elysium Fields.

Answer 7

Because that was the day Jesus made the promise . I find it interesting Jesus said paradise not heaven.

Or maybe hades is paradise . LOL

Answer 8

What do you know about Hades?



Let me answer that for you: Nothing.



Therefore the only assumption you can draw from Jesus' statement is that Hades can also be described as "paradise"

Answer 9

Jesus(pbuh) was never crucified or killed, its a monstrous lie and an insult that he was crucified and resurrected three days after his crucifixion. So, telling the thief next to him is out of question. Its all a big lie and a conspiracy. Do not worry, if God wills, he will come again withing our life time(within 2050 C.E) and rule the world from Jerusalem and there would be unprecedented peace and blessing in the earth for forty years of his tenure. I'm waiting for that, are you?

Answer 10

Greek has NO punctuation.



Greek has NO punctuation.



I am sincerely not trying to be rude. I just wanted to emphasize that. without the punctuation it can also read "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise."



see how big deal some translating and ONE single comma does?

Answer 11

Jesus didn't say it, Luke did.

Answer 12

Cool sounding fiction.

Answer 13

*Christ* went to conquer Hell. He was saying that the thief would be with *God the Father* that day.

Answer 14

...Lol... Proof that people get religious when about to die.