When the apostle Thomas addresses Jesus as 'My Lord and my God' was he in error?

jimspace3000

12 years ago

No Thomas was not in error, but you certainly are:

1) Jehovah's Witnesses affirm the full deity of Christ with the loudest voice. We proclaim that he is an exalted divine spirit person. Ironically, Trinitarianism teaches that Christ is 100% man in hypostatic union with his divine nature, thus unwittingly denying Christ's deity.

2) As Thomas was a strict monotheistic Jew, he believed that the almighty God was one person, the Father. He was also aware of Jesus' preaching that the Father is the "only true God." (John 17:1-5) Jesus even told Mary in John 20:17 that he will ascend to his Father and God. (Compare with Rev. 3:12.) And in verse 31 John tells us that the point of his Gospel is that Jesus is the Son of God. Notice how John did not repeat Thomas' exclamation. Thomas calling Jesus "my God" has a number of OT precedents. For instance Hosea 12:3-4 calls the angel Jacob wrestled with God. Exodus 23:21 calls an angel Jehovah God. Thus taking the context of John 20 and the OT precedents into account, John 20:28 would not prove that Jesus is the 2nd person of the impersonal Trinitarian Godhead. Thus, there was nothing for Jesus to correct Thomas over.

3) Anyone in the Trinitarian cult who has been deceived on this point needs to follow the plain words of scripture and escape to the real Christian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

@ WT of Babel: Hi there! Please consider the material in point #2 on why Jesus had nothing to correct Thomas over. Jesus both represents God and is a god simultaneously. 100% scriptural and reasonable.

?

12 years ago

Here, hear.

More than that, there was no such thing in Hebrew, Chaldee, Aramaic or even Greek as the J sound back in those days. Even Jesus had to be (first) spelled with an I for the New Testament. It's only in the last 500 years that Hebrew has a J sound in it and that only because of the influence of English which also did not exist back in the Bible days.

Jehovah can not possibly be the most sacred Name of the Almighty. Even Jesus' original name had to have begun with a Y. Ask Jews for Jesus or any Rabbi. Jesus name is exactly the same as what our Old Testament's have as Joshua because it did not first have to be translated from Greek for us.

If JW's have the very sacred Name of the Most High, God and Father of Jesus, His Word Incarnate wrong, they have built their whole house on sinking sand. Esp when rewriting the Bible.

miceli

8 years ago

that's in this passage of scripture that Thomas, arguably the main unremarkable of the disciples, gives you a message of wish to the international. Thomas replaced into stated in basic terms 8 cases interior the gospels; Matthew 10:3, Mark 3:18, Luke 6:15, John 11:sixteen, John 14:5, John 20:24, John 20:25-29, John 21:2. Thomas could perhaps have been struck by using a feeling of his very own failing ie in his protracted loss of theory; yet he replaced into my no potential blasphemous. by using finally repenting of his unbelief, and thereby acknowledging Jesus as sovereign Lord and God, Thomas shows there is wish for even the toughest of hearts to come again to renowned God. it is likewise an encouragement for Christians to no longer provide up wish, or to think of that our testimony has failed. we are reminded that the seeds we plant come to fruition in Gods' very own time no longer in accordance to our plans and desires. God bless and thank you for asking <)))><

Ryenic

12 years ago

Yeah, Thomas did address Jesus that way, but in that same Chapter Jesus said: "Jesus saith...I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." John 20:17 (KJV). Jesus said he has a God, NOT is God.

The JWs believe Jesus. Do you believe Thomas over Jesus?

(If you accept what our Savior is saying at John 20:17, then maybe you'll come to understand why Thomas said what he did; what he really meant).

NoName

12 years ago

You are in error. How so? When a person makes an expression like "Oh my God" Are they calling the person or thing God? No, it's an uttered expression. To claim it's proof that Jesus is God fails. How so? Read John 14:1. Here, take your pick which one you like. See the words Jesus uses.

New International Version (©1984)

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.

New Living Translation (©2007)

"Don't let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, and trust also in me.

English Standard Version (©2001)

“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

So, tell me again where Jesus makes the statement he is God.

See, Jehovah's Witnesses have learned what the Bible says and reject the claim Jesus is God since it doesn't match with scripture. We are the TRUE Christians Jesus spoke of at John 4:23. Look that up as well and let me know who he says will be called TRUE worshipers. (HINT: It's not Jesus nor a Trinity.)

Someone's notes are wrong. Lord and God are not names but titles.

TeeM

12 years ago

No Thomas was not in error, your interpretation of what Thomas said and what John recorded Jesus doing is in error.

(blueletterbible.net:) God: whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way

a) God's representative or viceregent

1) of magistrates and judges

You will notice one of the definitions for the Greek word translated into English as "God" is what can be liken to God.

Does Jesus resemble God in any way? Yes, Jesus is the image of God.

Is Jesus God's representative? Yes, Jesus was sent by God.

Is Jesus a magistrate? Yes, Jesus is God's anointed King.

Is Jesus a judge? Yes, Jesus is God's appointed judge.

Thus biblical it is proper to call Jesus 'God', but this does not prove he is "the only true God". (John 17:3)

Nor does Thomas saying 'my God' disprove Jesus' own words to Mary, "My God and your God".

Nor does Thomas words disprove the whole reason John wrote his gospel.

"To prove that Jesus was the Son of God".

If you get something else from the book of John, you have missed the whole reason John wrote it.

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cashelmara

12 years ago

St. Thomas became convinced of the truth of the Resurrection and exclaimed: "My Lord and My God," ........... making a public profession of faith in the "Divinity" of Jesus.

First off the Witnesses don't believe in the Trinity. That being the case you will never get them to understand that Jesus is God.

They will tell you that Jesus is a mighty god but not the God. They actually believe in 2 gods. God the almighty God and mighty god they name as Jesus.

As far as Thomas saying My Lord and My God they will tell you that Thomas was using a term of endearment.

They believe that first there is God that God created Jesus then through Jesus all things were created.

They will tell you that God gave Jesus all authority and that is the final answer for them.

They will tell you that the Holy Spirit is a streak of lightening and not the third person of the Trinity.

Philippians 2:5-11 (Douay Rheims)

5 For let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man.

8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross.

9 For which cause God also hath exalted him, and hath given him a name which is above all names:

10 That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth:

11 And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

jack says Jesus is God

12 years ago

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>>>>God is His title, Jesus is His Name ! <<<<

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__God is a spirit... and a spirit can Not bleed, so the spirit made a body

( Jesus ).

( Hebrews 10 : 5 )

_ Now, Jesus is 100% God... and 100% man___

As God Jesus said, “ Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up “

( John 2:19 )

So He, being God, raised Himself from the Dead !!

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___As a man, Jesus hungered, as God, Jesus feed the multitudes.

As a man, Jesus prayed, but as God, Jesus answers prayers !!_____

__As a man, Jesus cried out while on the cross, " My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? “ ( Mark 15:34 )

__but as God, Jesus said, " I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee " ___

( Hebrews 13:5 )

____As a man Jesus died... but as God, Jesus raised Himself from the grave. !!

__(_Isa. 9 : 6 ) tells us the SON is the everlasting Father !

___Jesus is the Father in creation ( creator ). Jesus is the Son in redemption, ( Saviour, ) and the Holy Ghost in regeneration, ( Indwelling Spirit ) _ ( Rom. 8 : 11 ).

There is only, One God !_____Jesus Christ !

____ The bible tells us that " without the shedding of blood there can be no remissions of sins "...

___ *** Because God is everywhere at the same time____ He was able to stay in heaven, ____and come to the earth at the same time,___in the form of a man ( Jesus ), sacrifice Himself,___ instead of us, ( God knows we should die for our sins ) and still live !! ***

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, …( Philippians 2:9—11 )

Thomas called Jesus God, ( John 20:28 )

Stephen while dying called God Jesus, ( Acts 7:59 )

When Paul asked the Lord who He was in ( Acts 9 : 5,) The Lord said “ I am Jesus “…

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"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was MANIFEST in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." – ( 1 Timothy 3:16 )

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The Holy Ghost is not a third person in the Godhead, but rather the manifestation of the Spirit of God ( the Creator ), and of the resurrected Christ, coming to dwell in the hearts and lives of all men, who will be obedient to the gospel, as the Comforter, Sustainer, and the Keeper ( John 14 : 16—26; Rom. 8 : 11 ) .

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So There are not three Gods, but three MANIFESTATIONS of the One God.

“ These three are one “ ( 1 John 5 : 7 )

Jesus is the Son of God according to the flesh ( Rom. 1:3 ). and the very God Himself according to the Spirit ( Matt. 1 : 23 ).

Jesus is the Christ ( Matt. 16:16, the creator of all things ( Col. 1: 16,17 ) ; God with us ( Matt. 1 :23 ) ; God made flesh ( John 1 : 1 );

God manifested in the flesh ( 1 Tim. 3 : 16 ); He which was, which is and which is to come. THE ALMIGHTY

( Rev. 1 : 8 ; Isa. 9: 6 ).

To this, Jesus Himself testified when He said : "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father " ( John 14:7--11 ) ; and " I and my Father are one"

( John 10:30 ).

Since it took shedding of blood for the remission of the sins of the world ( Heb. 9 : 22 ), God as the Father, being a Spirit, had no blood to shed; so He prepared a body of flesh and blood ( Heb. 10: 5 ), that He might fulfill the prophecy of ( Isa. 43:11; ) " Beside Me there is no Saviour " ; and caused the angels to sing, " For there is born this day in the city of David, a Saviour, which is CHRIST, THE LORD " (Luke 2 : 11).

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Jehovah's Witnesses say that Jesus is "a" god, they deni that Jesus is God in the flesh !!

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anonymous

12 years ago

If Thomas said this in surprise, and used the phrase "My God" flippantly, then it would have been worthy of a rebuke by Jesus. Jesus was a Rabbi and would have had to rebuke Thomas. But the next verse has Jesus speaking commendably to Thomas: "Jesus said to him: "Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see me and yet believe." (John 20:29).

John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!'"

In the Greek in John 20:28 Thomas said to Jesus, "ho kurios mou, kai ho theos mou," "The Lord of me, and the God of me." If Jesus was not God, but "a" god, then shouldn't Jesus have corrected Thomas? Shouldn't Jesus have said, "No Thomas, I am not the God. I am a god."? But Jesus did not. To do so would have been ludicrous. Nevertheless, the Jehovah's Witness will say that Thomas was so stunned by Jesus' appearance, that he swore. This is ridiculous because it means that Thomas, a devout man of God, swore in front of Jesus and used the Lord's name in vain in violation of Exodus 20:7. This is hardly the case since we find no New Testament equivalent of a disciple of Christ using God's name in vain.

anonymous

12 years ago

thomas was shown by the holy spirit that jesus is god

Lungboy

12 years ago

Typically Witnesses will try to redirect to other scriptures rather than address this.

They don't like it when you toss their favorite scripture back at them:

"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me," (Isaiah 43:10).

Angeleyes

12 years ago

Absolutely right!!!