Question:
If God has a plan, how can free will exist?
?
2016-04-06 04:17:55 UTC
If we're not simply mindless pawns in "God's plan", is it really a plan?

I've been told time and time again that everything that happens is part of "God's Plan". Including me being an atheist. So how exactly does free will work into that?

I've heard people say that I have the free will to choose whether or not to be a part of that plan...but then, that isn't a plan...is it? I mean, it wouldn't include me to begin with, since God would already know that I wasn't going to be a part of it...so his plan would have been developed, and I wouldn't be a part of it...so not everything is part of God's plan.

But then, what if I mess with God's plan? I mean, it can't be a plan unless everything is included...even those who don't want to be a part of it. If I murder a key figure in his plan, his plan is borked. But he would know I would do that...so he would have planned for it.

Seriously, if theists keep talking about this "God's Plan" nonsense, my head is going to explode.
32 answers:
Mr. Immortel
2016-04-08 08:00:38 UTC
Just like you have a plan and others have free will. You can invite any or all that could possibly be part of your plan but not neccessarily all would be willing to follow. By the way, God does more than plan he has a purpose which never fails. Plans may or may not pan out. Most often God's purpose is general and has to do with time, existence and only masses of people. His purpose does not control every little detail in a person's life. We can either act in harmony with his purpose or not, for we do have free will as mentioned.
?
2016-04-06 07:59:32 UTC
Consider this simple example:

- a parent can have many plans for a child

- a child might conform to some of those plans and might not conform to others of those plans



Are you telling me that a child who voluntarily conforms to a parent's plan (for whatever reason) does not have free will?

Are you telling me that when a child does not conform to a parent's plan, that the parent never really had a plan at all?



Let's take a more complex example. A general, based on information of enemy movements and arms and numbers and the arms and numbers and mobility of his own troops, plans a military mission.

A - The mission does not go as expected (for whatever reason). Perhaps the enemy was reinforced before the mission was completed, unknown to the general. Perhaps the enemy forces moved in a way unexpected by the general. Etc. Perhaps one of the general's own subordinate officers failed to implement the plan properly. Do you contend that there never was a plan?

B - The mission does go as expected Do you conclude that the enemy forces had no free will, that they of necessity complied with the plan of the opposing general?



Conclusion:

- A plan can exist with or without compliance from individuals. Indeed, a well-laid plan probably expects at least some degree of non-compliance **and includes details addressing that possibility**.

- An individual can voluntarily comply with a plan, voluntarily refuse to comply with a plan, or out of ignorance act voluntarily in accordance with a plan or act voluntarily contrary to a plan. Free will does not necessarily destroy a plan! Indeed, many plans **depend wholly on the free will of individuals**.
?
2016-04-06 04:34:13 UTC
The answer to your question is simple: God doesn t have a "plan" but rather, He has a purpose. While these two things sound the same, they really are different; a plan means he already knows everything that s happening and going to happen. It means that everything is predetermined. Therefore, the free will of any intelligent creature wouldn t exist.



On the other hand, God s purpose means that He has decided not to use his foreknowledge to know what s specifically going to happen to all people, and give all His intelligent creation the chance exercise their own free will with dignity.

God s purpose is to change this world into a Global Paradise, which is His original purpose for mankind.
2016-04-06 05:35:53 UTC
If God has a plan, how can free will exist?



You might as well ask if the Force is good how can Darth Vader exist.



None of us alive today were there when the alleged events of the bible occured. None of us witnessed creation, the great flood, the life and death of Jesus, the miracles he is supposed to have performed, nor his resurrection.



All of these "stories" have been handed down from one generation to the next for centuries. These tales are as much a part of a believer's reality as her DNA. It doesn't matter whether or not the stories are true, exaggerations, or complete fiction. What matters is that they are TRADITION and that tradition is what binds believers to their doctrines or myths in what is being labeled as the "god phenomenon."



When you question a person's religious beliefs you are insulting her family because her beliefs are just as much a part of her family as her mother and father. This is especially true in cases where mom and dad did the proselytizing.



It doesn't matter how logical your argument may be, in the eyes of a believer you are nothing more than an antagonist seeking to defame honored and revered tradition. Your words of doubt resound as an invitation to war. Whether or not the prophets actually spoke with deities is questionable, but they certainly understood how to manipulate the human psyche.
james
2016-04-06 04:49:37 UTC
Firstly, the way you word your question suggests that you believe there is a god, so you can't be an atheist who doesn't believe there is one.



And, if you don't believe in a god, then there can't be a gods plan, so everything you choose or do is your free will to do so.



The words of a god and his alleged son and followers are just that words with no factual foundation and them words just as mine are right now, read by people, and some people will believe or trust in them and some people won't, that is your free will to decided, based on your opinion of your own personal life's experience and things you've learnt.



So, it is a faith in the word and teachings based on them. If you don't trust in the word then that is your free will to do so.



Free will can move is so many directions and include so many haphazard happenings coming from one choice that can completely change the course of your life.
2016-04-08 14:47:03 UTC
Hey



I am a Christian which means that I believe God has given us free will, but that he still has a plan for us. Take the example of Adam and Eve, God certainly didn't plan for them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge, but placed it there to give them a choice. This also meets us in everyday life, God has made a plan for my life but my decisions might change this plan. But I believe that God will always try to help us on the right track again.



God's plan is most likely something about everybody being Christians, however using your free will you can choose not to follow this plan. And even though I believe that God wants everybody to follow his plan you can still choose for yourself to either follow or overlook the help/signs he will give you.



Have a nice day
Haeo
2016-04-06 04:20:47 UTC
We have freedom of choice, that much is obvious.



God just knows exactly how it's going to pan out in the end, due to his omniscience.



"I've heard people say that I have the free will to choose whether or not to be a part of that plan"



Yeah, no, that doesn't happen. Obviously, God doesn't get 'caught unawares'.





In a way, yes, 'free will' doesn't technically exist in the Christian worldview, due to predetermination and predestination. But that doesn't mean you're not responsible for your own actions.



In fact, even in a secular worldview, I'd argue that free will doesn't exist. All our thoughts and actions are purely formed by our biological makeup and our experiences, everything throughout our history to create the developments of our mind, and everything throughout human evolutionary history to create the developments of our inherent characteristics of our bodies and minds. There's nothing in our minds that isn't a product of things that came before, that ultimately derive from things we cannot control. We can choose between things but there is no "free will".
spider
2016-04-06 10:56:26 UTC
God's purpose whether you are a part of it or not will continue on. He could have created you as a robot and we wouldn't be having this conversation about the gift of free will. It perplexes me sometimes that we take advantage of the very thing that we complain about. You can continue to use your free will as you have this far without any interruption from God and if you don't want to be apart of His purpose that is your choice. But at least show some respect for the gift that you use everyday.
2016-04-06 04:53:00 UTC
Because having a plan doesn't mean you employ robots to carry it out.



When building a house you employ a team and crew. Each person needs the free will to do their jobs. Some will and some will not but that is part of what freedom is about.
?
2016-04-06 09:49:15 UTC
God is omnipotent and is therefore never wrong.



If you pray for something like little Johnny recovers from cancer, here are your possible outcomes:



1. Johny dies, your prayer wasn't answered.



2. Johnny lives. As god is never wrong, god already decided Johnny would live and therefore all you did was guessed right about gods decision. Your prayer was pointless.



3. Johnny lives. God answered your prayer and changed it's decision. If god changed it's decision it was initially wrong therefore your god made a mistake and couldn't be omnipotent. Therefore your god doesn't exist. Your prayer was pointless, you prayed to nothing and Johnny got better because of his treatment.



For a laugh, consider the Lords prayer: Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil". Gods already decided if it will lead you into temptation or if it will subject you to evil if it's omnipotent so why include it in a prayer? Your god is taking you for a fool.
?
2016-04-07 10:08:29 UTC
It means that everything is predetermined. Therefore, the free will of any intelligent creature wouldn t exist.



On the other hand, God s purpose means that He has decided not to use his foreknowledge to know what s specifically going to happen to all people, and give all His intelligent creation the chance exercise their own free will with dignity. It will be equipped with everything that will satisfy all family members who choose to live there (spacious rooms, state of the art appliances, plenty of food, entertainment that will never cause boredom, etc). If a family member decides to exercise his free will and live somewhere else.
Cool Dude
2016-04-06 05:02:25 UTC
God's plan does not go against our free will. In fact, it is in complete harmony with our free will. For example, a person plans to build their dream home. It will be equipped with everything that will satisfy all family members who choose to live there (spacious rooms, state of the art appliances, plenty of food, entertainment that will never cause boredom, etc). If a family member decides to exercise his free will and live somewhere else, even if its not to your liken, does that mean that you should alter your plan because of their free will to choose a different living arrangement?
Scarborough Fair
2016-04-06 05:35:19 UTC
Various Christian denominations vary on that aspect of theology. Calvinists believe that God has everything completely planned out and that everything is predestined, even down to who will go to Heaven and who will go to Hell. The concept of predestination clashes with the concept of free will.



Jacob Arminius developed a theology that counters John Calvin's. Arminians stress free will over predestinations. They believe that God has a purpose or a will but humans don't always do his will. If the Holy Spirit inspires someone to do something and they don't do it, he simply asks someone else. He doesn't force anyone to do anything.



You are correct that idea of predestination clashes with free will. Arminian Christians agree with you.
Hannah J Paul
2016-04-08 11:57:39 UTC
I do not want your head to explode. So please . . .



Firstly, God doesn't have a plan as people think of that word. God has His will. And his purpose. Plan and will may sound the same but they are not.



Secondly, God does not have a plan for every individual. Now THAT would disrupt free will; indeed, it would negate it altogether! So God does not have a personal plan for you. Neither does he have one for me, or for George or for Edith. God did not 'plan' for me to sit here at this keyboard and type this response. My free will allowed me to choose to do this. And this choice of mine in no way disrupts God's will for mankind.



But that God has an express will and purpose there can be no doubt. Jesus taught us to pray for God's kingdom to come and for His will to take place on earth as it does in the heavens. Do you think heaven is a mess like earth? Hardly.



So what IS God's will and purpose for the earth according to scripture? His purpose is to rid this earth of all wickedness, violence, sickness and death. This system we see and within which we are forced to live and operate - with its crooked politics, greedy commercial interests and false religious practices - must be put out of the way to make room for a different kind of rule - God’s kingdom with Christ Jesus as king.



This is God’s will, to have his kingdom government restore paradisiac conditions on earth with man living here in perfection. His will cannot fail. But he does not force, ‘plan’ or purpose every single individual to be a part of it. They have to choose that life if they want it. They have to use their free will wisely - choose wisely to be a part of it. We have to choose it and then qualify. The Bible teaches how we can have a part in this grand purpose. God's loving purpose allows humans free will. It is a glorious gift He will never take away.



Hannah J Paul
?
2016-04-06 04:28:04 UTC
Free will exist because you get to choose whether you want to go with that plan or not. Any decision we make in life has its consequences, good or bad.
Michael S
2016-04-06 04:37:18 UTC
We have free will, but God has free will as well. We can make the choices, but God can also make choices to accomplish certain things according to his plan.



My kids have free will to make choices. But I can also make choices. There may be certain things that I do to accomplish my goals for my household. My kids may choose to cooperate or not cooperate with my plan. But that doesn't negate my ability to complete the things that I want to accomplish.



Same thing with God. He is smart enough to figure out how to orchestrate his plans, even in the midst of opposition and resistance in this world. In many cases, he even uses the opposition to accomplish his goals (such as the cross). He is a strategist that can anticipate and even use the enemies tactics to ultimately get his own purposes accomplished. Just as Joseph said to his brothers who betrayed him...'you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good'. Scripture says that God is able to work all things together for good (Rom8:28).
biggalloot2003
2016-04-06 04:24:30 UTC
I once went to Cassadaga, Florida and got thrown out of the book store because I kept saying to people, "I KNEW you were going to say that!"



Claiming that something is god's plan is like saying, "I KNEW you were going to say that!" Basically nothing that their god "does" makes any sense so they make believe that it is part of a larger plan, which they use to explain it. Since they don't know the larger plan, none of it ever has to make any sense at all!
Uncle Thesis
2016-04-06 05:10:59 UTC
God has a plan.

The unknown is, do you want to be a part of it.

You have the free will to accept, or decline.
?
2016-04-10 14:28:43 UTC
I knowz. D:



I asked a question similar to this, and I still don't know the answer. Everyone said stuff that destroyed itself. They'd say "We choose wether or not to be on this plan." but if that were true, than how would we know what God's plan was? Like... should we just keep walking forward, not choosing anything? Cause if its "God's plan" than we really shouldn't choose anything, ever. We'd be like carrots, waiting for God to use us like a puppet.



Yep and thats another thing I wonder about...

If its a plan, and I'm not on it, can't I like mess with other people? Kill them, etc. And what if this is a part of God's plan? Than I'm supposed to kill them, even though its a sin! But if I did that people would call me evil, though they probably have said "Everything is God's plan for us."



which brings me to another thing, that doesn't make sense... If everything is God's plan... than we shouldn't go to hell, cause it would be "God" calling the shots, not us... and I mean that quite literally when I say 'shots.' I could shoot someone, and it would be God's plan, but at the same time I might not even be on that plan anymore, even though it would be God's plan for me to stray off his plan because he planned the things that I was planning to do, though people would say I strayed off the plan, he obviously planned them to say that, so I'm still on the plan, though I'm off the plan...



Ugh... My head might really esplode. D:



EDIT:

I just thought of something!!

If I'm on his plan than that means I'm supposed to stray off his plan, because he planned it that way, but how can I stray off it if I'm supposed to stray off it, so I'd still be on his plan, and since he knows everything he would be planning everything I do for the rest of my life. If I become a serial killer and kill millions of people, it would only be god's plan, though its considered a sin!

So... basically I'm supposed to stray off his plan, and be an atheist... because god planned that, so I have to stay on his plan, and be planned that way, or I'll stray off his plan, which I'm supposed to, so the plan really makes it seem like god sucks at plans because this plan makes ma head esplode. D:
Charles Veidt
2016-04-06 07:27:24 UTC
God's plan is to put us where we need to be, in order to do what needs to be done. It's still up to us to work the plan.
2016-04-06 04:22:12 UTC
The bible doesn't teach "free will" and there are many examples of that. just to name a few



Proverbs 16:4 states that God created the wicked for the day of destruction. (these people didn't have the choice)

Acts 13:48 states that God himself chooses (destines people) for eternal life.

John 5:21 states that God gives eternal life to whom he pleases to give it too.

Ephesians 1:5 says “he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…”



God had planned you even before you were born or before you were in our mother‘s womb Jer. 1:4

He planned things for you in the future before the earth or time existed I Cor. 2:7.

He had made plans for your life to give you His grace before you were born Gal 1:15.

He chose you and called you to redemption to be saved and be made holy Eph 1:4.
Q&A Queen
2016-04-06 04:39:12 UTC
Yes. You have the option of going along with God's plan... or not. Your choice.
?
2016-04-09 00:30:26 UTC
God has plans, but no one know.
Keith
2016-04-06 04:36:01 UTC
In order to see what the truth is, one must empty one's mind and heart of pre-conceived emotion, and bias and be ready to accept truth whatever that may be.



God's plan for us is always good.



Since lots of times we choose incorrectly--



we can either trust God's will to be best and thus allow the two to be aligned,



To be clear, God's known outcome of our decision and our will, when we pray according to His will--since it is always for our good.
Linda
2016-04-06 04:54:27 UTC
Please allow me to explain the truth to you.



God has a plan. He will see to it that plan is carried out. Part of that plan includes the return of mankind and the earth to their original condition of perfection. If you wish to become part of that plan, you are welcome to do so.



There are certain requirements for you to follow which are outlined in the bible. If your choice is to, not be part of the plan, simply do nothing.
2016-04-06 04:38:49 UTC
Religion always presents a paradox.
ANONYMOUSLY
2016-04-06 05:04:00 UTC
YOUR NOT UNDERSTANDING, FREE WILL AND PREDESTINATION, PLEASE READ HERE>>>>>>>>>>>>



JUST BECAUSE GOD

KNOWS WHO WILL BE SAVED OR WHO WILL NOT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH

YOUR FREE WILL, ON THE CONTRARY, YOUR FREE WILL TO TURN TO GOD

OR NOT TURN TO HIM BEFORE YOU DIE OR PREFERABLY RIGHT AWAY, WILL

ONLY SUBSTANTIATE WHAT GOD ALREADY KNOWS. YOU SEE THERE IS NO

TIME WITH GOD, HE IS FOREVER IN THE PRESENT.

SO BECAUSE HE KNOWS THE OUTCOME OR OUR DESTINY DOES NOT INTERFERE

WITH OUR FREE WILL, THIS IS WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO TURN TO

HIM WHILE WE STILL CAN, WHEN YOU DIE IT WILL BE UP TO YOU TO

ASK FOR FORGIVENESS BEFORE YOU PASS OVER TO HIM. IF WHEN USING

YOUR FREE WILL YOU DECIDE YOU WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD AND

HIS FORGIVENESS AT DEATH, THEN YOU ARE PERMANENTLY SEPARATING

YOURSELF FROM HIM, HE DID NOT SEPARATE HIMSELF FROM YOU, SO

HE WILL HONOR YOUR FREE WILL AND YOU WILL HAVE CONDEMNED

YOURSELF FOR ALL ETERNITY, BUT IF YOU DECIDE YOU WANT TO BE

GOOD JUST FOR HIM AND ASK FOR FORGIVENESS BEFORE YOU PASS

OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE, THEN YOU HAVE CHOSEN TO BE WITH HIM

IN HAPPINESS FOR ALL ETERNITY, BECAUSE HE IS HONORING YOUR

FREE WILL AGAIN. SO YOU SEE, FREE WILL AND PREDESTINATION,

ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS.
2016-04-06 04:27:16 UTC
Because reasons.
?
2016-04-06 09:55:08 UTC
The rising of atheism is the best proof that there is no god.
Special EPhex
2016-04-08 04:40:34 UTC
It is God's Will that we have free will, so that we may choose him on our own, which demonstrates that he does not Rule by 'force'. One cannot express Love by control and manipulation. God only provides setting and opportunity, from which we are free to go about the way we choose, within the limits of the mortal domain. Human's are not only physical beings but spiritual ones as well, which gives us the power to transcend the material aspects of our existence. It is the inheritance and acceptance of the human ego that makes us forget our Original Identity, and fearful to have faith in what appears to be "fantastical".



To even begin to understand "God's Plan" requires the maturation of the ego, and eventually it's transcendence, in order to be receptive to it in the first place. The ego is a survival mechanism for the mortal plane that starts off as "animalistic" and progress through stages of infancy, sophistication and domestication, before it is no longer needed to explore the world we find ourselves in. Most egos do not develop past the infancy level, because the attachment to and identification with the material world becomes so strongly ingrained in us at a young age, that we tend to grow up believing the realm of tangibility is mostly or completely all there is to existence.



The idea that the physical signifies reality is a misconception that makes us prone to error, or 'sin', which is another word for 'ignorance', as Christ and the Buddha taught (Both are considered to have been born of immaculate conception, without sin or ego). Without free will, we would not have the option to advance past the level of awareness we're presently at. Free will is how 'we' make the world into the physical realm we observe reflected in consciousness. The physical is always a result of the nonphysical. Without the formlessness of the 'sky' the 'clouds' would not appear. Silence and stillness are only detectable because of the ever present background of silence and stillness (The Zen of 'No Mind').



We live in a "holographic universe" where what is seen is dependent on the point of view. How we regard and frame our reality determines what is possible within it. All choices are driven by 'intentions', which is a nonphysical expression that lead to the physical expression of 'action'. Even science demonstrates that observation influences the outcomes of results and that every action has an equivalent reaction that arises and affects the entire matrix of exchanging energy (collective field of consciousness, or 'Mind of God'). Every choice inherently comes with it's range of consequences built in before we choose them, and are dependent on the totality of all of existence up to the moment. The intellect does not have the capacity to calculate or the grounds to question it.



The mental game of "causality", is a projection of the mind's sequential observation of material form and 'content' (specifics and details), which is based off of the "appearances" of the limitations and flaws of perception. The imaginary paradigm we 'transpose' upon the world we observe becomes 'imposed' upon God, Who is wrongfully blamed for our misjudgments. The idea of "cause and effect" is the restriction we sense that imprison us in the constraints of "chance" or "genes". It is causality that operates by force, control and manipulation. God is a Total and Complete Being, and has no need to manipulate or control anything.



God Rules by, 'Power', which is profound and transformative. Power is sustaining, inexhaustible and effortless, whereas force is temporary, creates counterforce, and depletes itself, falling of it's own weakness. Man errors in believing "knowledge is power", which I think is a gimmicky catch phrase people easily accept because it sounds "right". What good is the power if it is based off the wrong knowledge? Knowledge is "empowering" but cannot 'belong' to humans and is only God's to possess. This is because the only way to 'know' anything means identifying with and being the known.



God is omniscient by way of being omnipresent, hence God is omnipotent. At best the mind and it's perception can only approximate and "know about" knowledge, because of limited and incomplete understanding. Knowing about China is not the same a going there or what it means to be Chinese. Everything, including knowledge, exists as a reduced aspects of God, being a 'universe' unto itself, and are meant to be regarded in their proper domain. The intellect does not register the nonlinear realm of formless 'context' (meaning and significance), expressed as "essence, which is the reason why the mind is always subject to asking questions with answers that lead to more questions.



People have a bad habit of mixing levels that do not apply to each other, like measuring 'weight' in 'inches'. The presumption that everything operates and progresses in a linear fashion, restricts the bounds of what is possible in reality. You do not have to be a person of faith to understand that the universe operates nonlinearly, and that making different choices result in different outcomes. Were everything predetermined to go about in a set path, what would be the point questioning it, unless it were possible to "alter" patterns of sequence? It is the nonlinear expression of inner choice to align with God/Spiritual Identity or the ego/material identity, that free will ultimately boils down to. The degree to which we're aware of them sets the parameters of possibility out of which the material world is an automatic consequence.
?
2016-04-06 20:20:10 UTC
http://skyarc.co/faith.html
2016-04-06 04:27:22 UTC
Good!


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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