why do some people make such a big deal about the "Pagan" roots of some Christian traditions?

Annsan_In_Him

2013-12-09 04:52:02 UTC

Anybody familiar with the ancient Hebrew scriptures knows the huge problem God's covenant people had with paganism. It was their undoing time after time. God clearly warned His covenant people to worship Him exclusively (so, only one true God) and not to make idols/images as the pagans did. Neither were they to marry pagans.

This all has to do with the concept of being sanctified, of being holy - set apart for God's use or glory.

Paganism pollutes people. It is the graffiti of Satan and it corrupts everyone it touches. Thus Christians were also warned in the Christian Greek scriptures to be aware of the snares of Satan and to avoid paganism. They were told that Satan is the invisible god of this system and that all the things the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God. See 1 Corinthians 4:4 & 10:19-22.

Sadly, some who brag the most about how free from paganism their denomination is have placed more importance on avoiding the symbols than in understanding why Jesus died - the crux of Christianity. They are the ones decrying Christmas etc, yet they don't tell people that only faith in what Jesus did will deal with their sins and bring them into the new covenant in Christ. 99% of all Jehovah's Witnesses are not in this new covenant that Christians must be in to be saved. One can avoid paganism yet still remain a sinner! There's more to sin than dabbling in paganism! Jesus came to die to pay back to God the debt of our sin, which no human can repay. He had to be born as a sinless Jewish man to do that and He had to leave Heaven where He had been eternally with God, emptying Himself of His glory and humbling Himself as far as death, to rescue us from our sins.

The celebration of God's gift to humanity - in the form of Mary's baby - is well worth celebrating and if that is done sincerely, that's good. If it's done without pagan trappings, that's even better. But the nay-sayers don't even celebrate Jesus' birth in any shape or form! Further, as the Jewish way of dating a baby's birth is from conception, then Jesus' conception in late December (with His birth being around 1 October) means the late December date of celebration has more significance than many realise. The Holy Spirit caused Mary's miraculous pregnancy in late December. Hallelujah! AiH

philosophyangel

2013-12-09 08:42:43 UTC

I agree. People who make a fuss about "paganism" of Christian traditions do not know what paganism is and have very little literacy about history, culture, and the development of religions in general. Many are just cut and pasting disinformation that they pick up on the Internet or from discredited historical claims made by people in the early neopagan movement (that have been rejected by informed modern pagans) or from that poorly researched Zeitgeist movie. Sadly, many (fundamentalist) Christians are now (proudly) no longer celebrating Christmas because they too have bought into false ideas about its meaning and origins.

Considering that Illuminator gave a very thorough and highly informed response but received several thumbs down followed by a trail of idiotic responses from others proves my point.

nunya

2013-12-09 04:55:24 UTC

Suppose you had a costume party and someone came dressed as Hitler. Many would be offended, wouldn't you agree? When confronted, the person would reply, oh it's in the past, I just like the outfit, not the history of it, no offense. That wouldn't make it better because you know the history of the person and what atrocities he committed against innocent humans. In the same way, how do you think God feels when people ignore the origins of celebrations that are clearly offensive to Him and then claim that the history doesn't matter? It still isn't good enough.

Illuminator

2013-12-09 03:58:54 UTC

Because "pagan roots" of Christian traditions are false.

Whenever one encounters a proposed example of pagan influence, one should demand that its existence be properly documented, not just asserted. The danger of accepting an inaccurate claim is too great. The amount of misinformation in this area is great enough that it is advisable never to accept a reported parallel as true unless it can be demonstrated from primary source documents or through reliable, scholarly secondary sources. After receiving documentation supporting the claim of a pagan parallel, one should ask a number of questions:

1. Is there a parallel? Frequently, there is not. The claim of a parallel may be erroneous, especially when the documentation provided is based on an old or undisclosed source.

For example: "The Egyptians had a trinity. They worshiped Osiris, Isis, and Horus, thousands of years before the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost were known" (Robert Ingersoll, Why I Am an Agnostic). This is not true. The Egyptians had an Ennead—a pantheon of nine major gods and goddesses. Osiris, Isis, and Horus were simply three divinities in the pantheon who were closely related by marriage and blood (not surprising, since the Ennead itself was an extended family) and who figured in the same myth cycle. They did not represent the three persons of a single divine being (the Christian understanding of the Trinity). The claim of an Egyptian trinity is simply wrong. There is no parallel.

2. Is the parallel dependent or independent? Even if there is a pagan parallel, that does not mean that there is a causal relationship involved. Two groups may develop similar beliefs, practices, and artifacts totally independently of each other. The idea that similar forms are always the result of diffusion from a common source has long been rejected by archaeology and anthropology, and for very good reason: Humans are similar to each other and live in similar (i.e., terrestrial) environments, leading them to have similar cultural artifacts and views.

For example, Fundamentalists have made much of the fact that Catholic art includes Madonna and Child images and that non-Christian art, all over the world, also frequently includes mother and child images. There is nothing sinister in this. The fact is that, in every culture, there are mothers who hold their children! Sometimes this gets represented in art, including religious art, and it especially is used when a work of art is being done to show the motherhood of an individual. Mother-with child-images do not need to be explained by a theory of diffusion from a common, pagan religious source (such as Hislop’s suggestion that such images stem from representations of Semiramis holding Tammuz). One need look no further than the fact that mothers holding children is a universal feature of human experience and a convenient way for artists to represent motherhood.

3. Is the parallel antecedent or consequent? Even if there is a pagan parallel that is causally related to a non-pagan counterpart, this does not establish which gave rise to the other. It may be that the pagan parallel is a late borrowing from a non-pagan source. Frequently, the pagan sources we have are so late that they have been shaped in reaction to Jewish and Christian ideas. Sometimes it is possible to tell that pagans have been borrowing from non-pagans. Other times, it cannot be discerned who is borrowing from whom (or, indeed, if anyone is borrowing from anyone).

For example: The ideas expressed in the Norse Elder Edda about the end and regeneration of the world were probably influenced by the teachings of Christians with whom the Norse had been in contact for centuries (H. A. Guerber, The Norsemen, 339f).

4. Is the parallel treated positively, neutrally, or negatively? Even if there is a pagan parallel to a non-pagan counterpart, that does not mean that the item or concept was enthusiastically or uncritically accepted by non-pagans. One must ask how they regarded it. Did they regard it as something positive, neutral, or negative?

For example: Circumcision and the symbol of the cross might be termed "neutral" Jewish and Christian counterparts to pagan parallels. It is quite likely that the early Hebrews first encountered the idea of circumcision among neighboring non-Jewish peoples, but that does not mean they regarded it as a religiously good thing for non-Jews to do. Circumcision was regarded as a religiously good thing only for Jews because for them it symbolized a special covenant with the one true God (Gen. 17). The Hebrew scriptures are silent in a religious appraisal of non-Jewish circumcision; they seemed indifferent to the fact that some pagans circumcised.

2013-12-09 03:57:18 UTC

I think it's because it's called Christ-mas - it seems as tho' Christ-ians have taken it over. That's what people object to and they think they have the monopoly on morality and anything good in the world and yet when it comes to bad things - that's the result of free will or the Devil.

I am an atheist too - brought up as a Baptist - I will say no more. Did have a Jewish granddad - Reuben Burton - lovely man.

Merry Christmas

Celeste Moreno

2013-12-09 04:20:28 UTC

Hi there...that all depends on your moral values and what is important to you. True Christians understand the words of Jesus, "Jesus said that “the true worshipers will worship the Father with . . . truth.” (John 4:23) That truth has been recorded in the Bible. (John 17:17) Does the Bible teach that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons in one God? So a sincere person would not participate in something that was a lie, which we all know untruths are derived from God's chief enemy and rebellious son Satan, John 8:44. Do you find it acceptable that a religious leader would give a seemingly Christian meaning to events and symbols whose roots go back to ancient paganism? As to the proper course, the Scriptures admonish true Christians: “What fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness?”—2 Corinthians 6:14-17. Some agree that such holidays as Christmas have pagan origins but still feel that it is not wrong to celebrate them. After all, most people are not thinking about false worship when they observe holidays. These occasions also give families opportunities to draw close together. Is this how you feel? If so, likely it is love of family, not love of false religion, that makes taking a stand for true worship seem difficult. Be assured that Jehovah, the one who originated the family, wants you to have a good relationship with your relatives. (Ephesians 3:14, 15) But you can strengthen such bonds in ways that God approves. Regarding the matter that should be our chief concern, the apostle Paul wrote: “Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord.”—Ephesians 5:10. A dirty piece of candy in a gutter: Would you eat a piece of candy picked up from the gutter? Maybe you feel that the origins of holidays have little to do with how they are celebrated today. Do origins really matter? Yes! To illustrate: Suppose you saw a piece of candy lying in the gutter. Would you pick up that candy and eat it? Of course not! That candy is unclean. Like that candy, holidays may seem sweet, but they have been picked up from unclean places. To take a stand for true worship, we need to have a viewpoint like that of the prophet Isaiah, who told true worshipers: “Touch nothing unclean.”—Isaiah 52:11.

I hope this helps with you on the true Christians stand on this, just as you as an atheist don't really value the Christian morals, I have to respect your stand, I understand your stand as your moral value system is a little different than ours. I'm sure you'll be mature enough to understand the view of those who choose not to compromise their moral values based on educated evidence. Although having different beliefs, we are still brothers of the human race my friend, I wish you the best and I hope this information has been useful.

PearlsNTrinkets

2013-12-09 04:33:09 UTC

Satan the Devil has poisoned the minds of the vast majority of so called christian religions of this world.

What father would be happy with people who attached lies and pagan traditions to his perfect, righteous sons name. Let's attach the symbols of the gods of Egypt, Assyria and Babylon to the Christ Jesus.

Does that sound like the right thing to do?

That is why Jesus said what he said in Matthew 7:21-23 to’ Christians, Yes ! You know they are Christians because they are calling Jesus their Lord. He said “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’y 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!"

The only event Jesus specifically instructed his followers to commemorate was his death, not his birth, and this was to be done as a simple communion meal. (Luke 22:19, 20)

There is no historical evidence that the early Christians celebrated the birth of the Christ. But they did memorialize his death. (1 Corinthians 11:23-26)

Would you like to know the whole truth? Visit www.jw.org and download the publication "What Does The Bible Really Teach" You can also request a free home Bible discussion.

Aimee

2013-12-09 04:06:35 UTC

Christians try to own Christmas and make it all about their god and then get annoyed when the rest of us point out we're not celebrating their god or pagan gods but just enjoying a mid-winter holiday with a long tradition because its fun. Then they start saying that the name has Christ in it and we point out that their celebrations have a Saturnalia tree in them and then it all goes downhill from there.

"originally we were all single celled organisms

traditions change and evolve."

Love it

?

2013-12-09 03:53:32 UTC

Because Christians try to complain about how some secular groups are trying to take the "Christ" out of "Christmas" when it was never there originally. (Also there is no "war" on Christmas either)

Edit: Yes, things change and evolve. Like I said, it's not bad that Christians decided to copy pagan traditions. But it is silly when Christians resist changes that holidays more secular because they themselves changed the holidays to make them more Christian.

5737345

2013-12-09 04:24:37 UTC

This is what Jesus said, not any religious group:

Matthew 15:3 In reply he said to them: “Why is it YOU also overstep the commandment of God because of YOUR tradition? 4 For example, God said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Let him that reviles father or mother end up in death.’ 5 But YOU say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother: “Whatever I have by which you might get benefit from me is a gift dedicated to God,” 6 he must not honor his father at all.’ And so YOU have made the word of God invalid because of YOUR tradition. 7 YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me.

read also Matthew chapter 23

M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopædia says: “The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of N[ew] T[estament] origin. The day of Christ’s birth cannot be ascertained from the N[ew] T[estament], or, indeed, from any other source.”—(New York, 1871), Vol. II, p. 276.

Luke 2:8-11 shows that shepherds were in the fields at night at the time of Jesus’ birth. The book Daily Life in the Time of Jesus states: “The flocks . . . passed the winter under cover; and from this alone it may be seen that the traditional date for Christmas, in the winter, is unlikely to be right, since the Gospel says that the shepherds were in the fields.”—(New York, 1962), Henri Daniel-Rops, p. 228.

The Encyclopedia Americana informs us: “The reason for establishing December 25 as Christmas is somewhat obscure, but it is usually held that the day was chosen to correspond to pagan festivals that took place around the time of the winter solstice, when the days begin to lengthen, to celebrate the ‘rebirth of the sun.’ . . . The Roman Saturnalia (a festival dedicated to Saturn, the god of agriculture, and to the renewed power of the sun), also took place at this time, and some Christmas customs are thought to be rooted in this ancient pagan celebration.”—(1977), Vol. 6, p. 666.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges: “The date of Christ’s birth is not known. The Gospels indicate neither the day nor the month . . . According to the hypothesis suggested by H. Usener . . . and accepted by most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun). On Dec. 25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome.”—(1967), Vol. III, p. 656.

Wise men, or Magi, led by a star

Those Magi were actually astrologers from the east. (Matt. 2:1, 2, NW; NE) Although astrology is popular among many people today, the practice is strongly disapproved in the Bible. (See pages 144, 145, under the main heading “Fate.”) Would God have led to the newborn Jesus persons whose practices He condemned?

Matthew 2:1-16 shows that the star led the astrologers first to King Herod and then to Jesus and that Herod then sought to have Jesus killed. No mention is made that anyone other than the astrologers saw the “star.” After they left, Jehovah’s angel warned Joseph to flee to Egypt to safeguard the child. Was that “star” a sign from God or was it from someone who was seeking to have God’s Son destroyed?

Note that the Bible account does not say that they found the babe Jesus in a manger, as customarily depicted in Christmas art. When the astrologers arrived, Jesus and his parents were living in a house. As to Jesus’ age at that time, remember that, based on what Herod had learned from the astrologers, he decreed that all the boys in the district of Bethlehem two years of age and under were to be destroyed.—Matt. 2:1, 11, 16.

The practice of Christmas gift giving is not based on what was done by the Magi. As shown above, they did not arrive at the time of Jesus’ birth. Furthermore, they gave gifts, not to one another, but to the child Jesus, in accord with what was then customary when visiting notable persons.

The Encyclopedia Americana states: “During the Saturnalia . . . feasting prevailed, and gifts were exchanged.” (1977, Vol. 24, p. 299) In many instances that represents the spirit of Christmas giving—an exchanging of gifts. The spirit reflected in such gift giving does not bring real happiness, because it violates Christian principles such as those found at Matthew 6:3, 4 and 2 Corinthians 9:7. Surely a Christian can give gifts to others as an expression of love at other times during the year, doing so as often as he wants to.

Depending on where they live, children are told that gifts are brought by Santa Claus, St. Nicholas, Father Christmas, Père Noël, Knecht Ruprecht, the Magi, the elf Jultomten (or Julenissen), or a witch known as La Befana. (The World Book Encyclopedia, 1984, Vol. 3, p. 414) Of course, none of these stories are actually true. Does the telling of such stories build in children a respect for truth, and does such a practice honor Jesus Christ, who taught that God must be worshiped with truth?—

John 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and TRUTH, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.

.

2013-12-09 03:54:09 UTC

Because we're sick of Christians' lies that they own everything and they created everything good.

The truth is the exact opposite. All they do is steal, destroy, ravage and murder. You want to know about actual Christian traditions? Go read about how the Bible instructs you to burn cities to the ground, kill everyone except the young virgin girls so you can rape them, and rip pregnant women open with swords.

muslimah

2013-12-09 03:57:32 UTC

because we shouldn't mix between myth and religion.......IMHO

Adullah M

2013-12-09 04:04:40 UTC

Please see this for your reference

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8O_gVTXhnk