Question:
Once again I went along with your "fine-tuned universe" argument. I still don't see existence of a god that had holy begotten son do I?
anonymous
2015-08-03 20:09:18 UTC
Just for argument's sake I went along with it one more time.

What am I missing here? Not only is your god supposed to have had a holy begotten son, but the son was supposed to have had a sacred ghost; and presumably all three of them want to save us. Not to mention whole bunch of demons residing in a hell below us.

How do you people come up with all this stuff, using the "fine-tuned universe" argument?
Eight answers:
?
2015-08-03 20:26:05 UTC
Personally I don't subscribe to the Fine-tuned universe argument...But I don't think the intent is to get you beyond there being a Creator.



Think of it this way. If I want to get from Burbank, IL (79th * Cicero) to the Daley Plaza (Washington & Wabash) I can't get there on one bus.



First I take the 54 B North on Cicero to Cermak 22.



Then I take the EL train to State.



Then I take the State Street Bus to Washington



Walk two blocks West and I am there.



The Fine Tuned might get you to a Creator.. But then you have to take transfer to get to which Creator. There you might have to transfer again.. Each link getting you closer.
?
2015-08-03 20:19:21 UTC
But the next question we must tackle is this: if an eternal Creator exists (and we have shown that He does), what kind of Creator is He? Can we infer things about Him from what He created? In other words, can we understand the cause by its effects? The answer to this is yes, we can, with the following characteristics being surmised:



• He must be supernatural in nature (as He created time and space).

• He must be powerful (exceedingly).

• He must be eternal (self-existent).

• He must be omnipresent (He created space and is not limited by it).

• He must be timeless and changeless (He created time).

• He must be immaterial because He transcends space/physical.

• He must be personal (the impersonal cannot create personality).

He must be supernatural in nature (as He created time and space).

• He must be powerful (exceedingly).

• He must be eternal

• He must be infinite and singular as you cannot have two infinites.

• He must be diverse yet have unity as unity and diversity exist in nature.

• He must be intelligent (supremely). Only cognitive being can produce cognitive being.

• He must be purposeful as He deliberately created everything.

• He must be moral (no moral law can be had without a giver).

• He must be caring (or no moral laws would have been given).



These things being true, we now ask if any religion in the world describes such a Creator. The answer to this is yes: the God of the Bible fits this profile perfectly. He is supernatural (Genesis 1:1), powerful (Jeremiah 32:17), eternal (Psalm 90:2), omnipresent (Psalm 139:7), timeless/changeless (Malachi 3:6), immaterial (John 5:24), personal (Genesis 3:9), necessary (Colossians 1:17), infinite/singular (Jeremiah 23:24, Deuteronomy 6:4), diverse yet with unity (Matthew 28:19), intelligent (Psalm 147:4-5), purposeful (Jeremiah 29:11), moral (Daniel 9:14), and caring (1 Peter 5:6-7)
BuzzyBee
2015-08-03 20:13:41 UTC
Fined-tuned universe is "argument" for God. Not a good argument, though.



Trinity is human-made concept, which can be traced back in history to a time long after Jesus died.
andy c
2015-08-03 20:22:51 UTC
The articles of Christian faith are not a position that can be arrived at without supernatural insight. If you sincerely want to know the truth, read the Catholic Catechism, or the New Testament. Human reason can only take you so far, and it is untrustworthy in spiritual matters because our nature is fallen. Focus on the resurrection of Christ- if that is true, everything else is.
DB.
2015-08-05 13:48:59 UTC
If you think about it – atheism cannot be logically true. Design demands a Designer. Random chance does not produce things that are complex. Things decay over time – not get more complex. And our human bodies are the most complex things in the universe. Therefore – it is illogical to assume that they came together by time and chance. There had to be a Designer.



OK- so that brings us to a generic “Designer”. So what is this “Designer” like? Did He ever try to communicate with us? Does He have any standards of right and wrong?



Long story short – I am convinced that there is a God. That He DOES have standards of right and wrong. (Which we have all fallen short of btw.) :) And He has communicated with humanity through the Scriptures.



Are you an honest Juror and willing to read some intelligent believers on this subject?



Visit http://www.dissentfromdarwin.org/ for a list of scientists and people with with advanced degrees who say that macro evolution is not an adequate explanation for life as we know it. Note: Micro evolution (small dogs to big dogs, etc.) is true. Macro-evolution (amoeba to humans) is false.



Have you ever read - Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis?



C.S. Lewis and fellow novelist J. R. R. Tolkien (Lord of the Rings) were both professors at Oxford University. Tolkien helped lead Lewis to faith in Jesus Christ. Lewis then wrote many excellent books defending the faith for thinking people. ((He also wrote the classic children’s allegory “The Lion, the Witch and the wardrobe.” ))



Or how about reading - “The Case for a Creator” by Lee Strobel. EXCELLENT evidence.



The former atheist was the award-winning legal editor of The Chicago Tribune. Strobel was educated at the University of Missouri (Bachelor of Journalism degree, 1974) and Yale Law School (Master of Studies in Law degree, 1979).



He was a professional journalist for 14 years at The Chicago Tribune and other newspapers, winning Illinois' top honors for investigative reporting (which he shared with a team he led).



After a nearly two-year investigation of the evidence for Jesus Christ, Lee became a Christian and has written several books defending the faith now!



How do you explain the high degree of design and order in the universe if there is no God?



Remember: The Second Law of Thermodynamics is against atheism!

(Things will always go from order to disorder (2nd Law). Evolution teaches the exact OPPOSITE of this. Right away there is PROOF. Evolution contradicts a set law in the universe.)



Also: Living Things NEVER Arise from Non-living Things. And Complex Systems do not evolve 'bit by bit' - ever! Complex Design Demands a Complex Designer.



** Design requires intelligence—in this case an extremely high order of intelligence. Man’s most advanced thinking and planning has produced airplanes, personal computers, etc. But none of this was done by accident. Careful thought and structuring was required.. This is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The more complex the system, the more elaborate the design needed.



Everywhere we turn in the cell we find the most highly technical computerization. Electrical polarity is a key in the DNA. This is positive and negative electrical impulses, found both in the DNA and about the cell membrane, cytoplasm, and nucleus. The result is a binary system, similar to what we find in the most advanced computers in the world, but far more sophisticated and miniaturized. Sophistication requires design, not random chance.



** Consider the retina of the eye, consisting of 150 million correctly made and positioned specialized cells! “The eye appears to have been designed; no designer of telescopes could have done better.”—*Robert Jastrow - American astronomer, physicist and cosmologist. He was a leading NASA scientist.



Everyone knows Mount Rushmore was the result of intelligent design. How can the human body (infinitely more complex) not be the result of intelligent design?



There is a multitude more evidence that God exists. What complex system is there that ever designed itself? An atheist cannot find God just as a criminal cannot find a police officer.



“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

- Robert Jastrow (1925 – 2008)



*Robert Jastrow, (the founding director of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies) This quote was taken from his notable work, “God and the Astronomers,” which expounded the big bang theory and the argument from design.



"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe - a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble….” (Albert Einstein)



"It was not by accident that the greatest thinkers of all ages were deeply religious souls." Max Planck (1858-1947) --German physicist, noted for work on quantum theory



"A commonsense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has tinkered with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question." Fred Hoyle (1915-2001) --English mathematician and astronomer.



"I am very much a scientist, and so I naturally have thought about religion also through the eyes of a scientist….. I have been influence in my thinking by the writing of Einstein who has made remarks to the effect that when he contemplated the world he sensed an underlying Force much greater than any human force. I feel very much the same..." Walter Kohn (1923-) --American theoretical physicist, awarded Nobel Prize in 1998





There is way more evidence to list. Check out this link for more quotes on how science points us to a Designer.



http://godevidence.com/2010/08/quotes-about-god/



I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist. :)



=========================================

Sample from list: 50 Nobel Laureates and Other Great Scientists Who Believe in God



1. Nevill Mott ------- Nobel Laureate in Physics

2. Louis Pasteur ----- Founder of Microbiology and Immunology

3. Arthur Compton ----- Nobel Laureate in Physics

4. Richard Smalley ----- Nobel Laureate in Chemistry

5. Joseph H. Taylor, Jr. ----- Nobel Laureate in Physics

6. Francis S. Collins, ------- Leader of the Human Genome Project



There are TONS more, but space limits what we can write.



An atheist cannot find God just as a criminal cannot find a police officer.



It is true - I simply do not have enough faith to be an atheist. :)



Here is a great sight to visit:

http://www.miraclesormagic.com/intelligent-design-vs-evolution.html
anonymous
2015-08-03 20:15:07 UTC
you Have a point there wow,

tell me more

The Lord says threw Jesus

(your not listening to what you are reading

whit the thought of holding on to what you read)

(there is no substance in what you are reading)

the end)(Amen)
ronbo
2015-08-03 20:11:30 UTC
use the anthropic principle.
anonymous
2015-08-03 20:13:08 UTC
.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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