Question:
Can science be seen as the religion on the 21st century?
Marky
2007-08-17 06:48:37 UTC
Before you jump in, I am an atheist and reject all religions' views on the universe.
Recently, I used to think that science was concrete facts that could not be disputed. If you believed in religion, you were denying all reason and logic. Newton could be proved time and time again, as could Einstein. Even Darwin, although not proven, is by far the most likely explanation and everything we since discover confirms this strong theory.
HOWEVER, science these days, now that it has gone beyond simple motion and matter, gets more and more theoretical. I've seen programs about the nature of atoms and the universe and the theories are extremely varied and counter-intuitive. Is it now becoming a matter of faith to believe that atoms can be in 2 different states at the same time and in 2 different universes?
32 answers:
happygal
2007-08-17 06:59:30 UTC
It is not the "facts" that you should have faith in, but instead, the methodology that led to the arrival of said facts.



I do not know that the earth is round, but the stuff I've heard about it seems to make a lot of sense to me. There's a lot of various evidence that all seems to point to the same thing, so I'm willing to "believe" that the earth is round. Or close enough to round, anyway.



So therefore I don't think "believing" scientific things is blind faith in the same way believing in god is.
teran_realtor
2007-08-17 13:41:52 UTC
You are mixing two fields. Science is the study of physical things - how they interact, and try to speculate on how they came to be. Religion is a definition on a spiritual matter - and how it has had an effect or brought about the physical that we now see.



The fact that scientists disagree shows two things. Neither of which makes science a religion. First, it shows that science is the art of taking quantifiable data (facts, stuff you can measure) and making an educated guess as to what that data proves, or leads you to believe. Those educated guesses are not only impacted by the quantifiable data, but also by the scientist's other experiences (and possibly agendas). Secondly (as you pointed out about "who pays for the study") science is heavily impacted by dollars and politics. Some studies say vitamins are good for you. Seems pretty obvious that giving your body good nutrients ought to be good, right? Not if you're a scientist funded by a pharmaceutical company - vitamins are not drugs, and taking them causes people to take less drugs - so studies funded by pharmaceutical companies all conclude that at best, taking vitamins gives you expensive urine, at worst, they can hurt you.



But no, science is not religion. As a fundie, I like science. It's the "educated guesses" part where people end up in disagreement. There is a great big hole in the ground called the Grand Canyon. Could it have been made by a cataclysmic event of geisers of water rushing up out of the ground and earthquakes followed by a year or two of flood waters running off this continent? Possibly. But most funding points at it taking billions of years of water running through it.....
brownbug78
2007-08-17 09:42:28 UTC
I see what you mean - there is an enormous amount that science can explain, and an enormous amount it can't.



Basically, science will always continue to evolve as we discover more each day until either (a) a theory is conclusively proved, or (b) we have to have a paradigm shift because evidence points against what we previously believed. Until we reach one of those states for each individual theory, there will always be an element of faith. So yes, a lot like religion!



I would argue that this isn't a 21st century thing, though - remember that we used to believe the world was flat! That theory was largely based on faith...



PS Contrary to your belief in Darwin, evidence being discovered every day is working more to disprove many elements of his theory rather than prove. In fact, many scientists believe that it won't be long before we have to virtually rewrite Darwin - that would be a helluva paradigm shift!
anonymous
2007-08-17 07:11:52 UTC
Let me speak onthe science of evolution, first.



It is just imagination and therfore just another set of beliefs - so yes, it is a religion in that sense. It has it's ardent followers who support it because the position has become part of their identity - who they are - how they define themselves in the world. Yes, just a belief.



We want something more. Above believer - there is the level of knower. But you will never know in your mind. Your mind has limits, your mind constantly lies to maintain control over the soul. Only the heart and soul can understand clearly what the mind will never see or understand.



I will give you some heavenly knowledge that goes way beyond what religious people and scientists profess - with their foolish beliefs.



There has been 124.000 Adams, not the few human fosil records that scientists have uncovered. 124.000 levels of existence - stages of development of the human species. You will never find this knowledge in books. Each Adam was created and then uterly destroyed and a new Adam - species was created. It is not evolution as the imaginative mind wants to say. No.



Not enough - the mosquitto - it has two tubes it injects into it's lunch. One for extracting, one for injecting a solution to thin the blood. Find this in any science book - then talk to me about real knowledge.



The cockroach. Why was it created? What purpose? Everything has a purpose in creation - you must know this. It is the only cure for persitent open soars. Kill it, cook it over fire, crush into a powder - then apply to the soar - day and night - three days, begining to heal. Find this in science . . . .



The Earth. What makes it turn? Jet engines?



No, God.



I normally do not bother with Atheists - ususally no point.



Seems you may be an exception.



Peace
anonymous
2007-08-17 06:55:23 UTC
no.

Look up the difference between natural and supernatural.

If a natural explanation is getting too complicated to understand without years of studying it does not mean that it has been achieved by supernatural means.

Contradictory results are also not a problem in science. Nobody is perfect, neither are scientists. Mistakes are made, a lot are perfectly natural mistakes. E.g. if the main factors contributing to an effect are not known the correct factors may not be controlled for, giving misleading results. Not all methods used may turn out to be appropriate, and some is just bad science.

That's why reproducability is important in science. Cold fusion turned out to be not reproducible, so the idea it could be reached with the method described has been discarded.

As far as your example with mobile phone masts are concerned a) studying long-term effects is by nature not quick. b) the last I read is that they have an effect, but that the effect is mainly psychological. If people believe that mobile phone masts cause them damage they actually get sick.
mach
2007-08-17 09:22:10 UTC
As person who has a belief,I also have a pragmatism.Sure science has dispelled what our forefathers believed to be the truth.As will it prove hat we hold to be true no longer viable.Some scientist believe there may be up to 11 dimensions.Science can complement religion if your mind can rationalise and accept as you've stated Darwin.Before the big bang theory what had we.This where faith should really begin,what has been written and theologies since is like Darwin and other scientist,their best guess
Charlie
2007-08-17 07:22:51 UTC
It all depends on how you define religion. In its most simplistic form religion can be defined as a set of ideas with followers. (Most people go a step further and add that those ideas are worshiped and this has become the accepted definition of religion.) Based on the very basic definition science could be considered a religion. I think most people scoff of the idea of science being a religion because of the association of that word with god(s), worship, and blind faith.



I also remember reading an article a year or so ago that stated that environmentalism is the new religion.



Nothing is absolute truth. All anyone has is faith, acknowledged or not, that the universe operates as it should. Whether by scientific laws and theories or by a divine power's hand.



It all in how you interpret things.
Linz ♥ VT
2007-08-17 07:01:08 UTC
Well what you are saying makes sense but just because you have to put a little bit of faith into something it doesn't mean it is a religion. You put faith in the fact that the sun will rise, not because you have proof that it will but because that is what it has always done in the past. So, that's kind of how faith works with science. Yes you are choosing which side you believe in terms of global warming or whatever the topic but you are basing it on a logical thought process that is based in evidence and observation not just wishful thinking or what your Mom told you.
AuroraDawn
2007-08-17 06:58:14 UTC
I certainly hope so, because science is flux...and constant learning. You don't know much about science if you believed that it was concrete. It can never be concrete because we don't know everything! It is a constant search for more information. A constant learning process. Once you say everything is written in concrete, you have stopped growing and will be like it was in the Dark Ages. Sure you've seen things change...but what on earth is wrong with that? It doesn't change for the worst! It is always for the best to admit you are wrong and to embrace the truth. Just because you can't wrap your mind around the new ideas doesn't make them bad or wrong. So, are you saying that because you don't understand the newest information, you are going to revert into your shell and lean back on religion's archaic, restrictive, constand and concrete ideas? If so, I feel sorry for you. Me...I'm always there, eagerly waiting all new information.



atheist
anonymous
2007-08-17 06:59:04 UTC
Some people think that science is the salvation of mankind. That is has the answers. That is provides or will always provide all the solutions. But science also fails miserably in certain areas where things ar mystical and simply unexplainable by the scientific method. Many times in the past science has been proven wrong or has fallen short.



So I wouldn't put faith in a "god" that is fallible and untrustworthy. Some people just like to use science as a salvation from religion. As an "I told you so" approach to religious people.
Jay R
2007-08-17 07:16:19 UTC
yes we cannot deny that the field of science is growing... but still spiritual things are spiritual.. Science only explains the things pertaining to the World we live in..Physical things.. and it has done very well.. Some of which still remain as theories.. unproven...



Both are not related... therefore cannot be compared and weighed which one is better.. or science would replace religion, or the other way around.. Both have different subjects...
apicole
2007-08-17 07:45:00 UTC
Science *alone* is not able to solve all the problems of mankind.

For example, our most challenging problem in the world right now, is the lack of unity. We have to replace competition between our nations with cooperation between them.

But science alone can not bring about this process. This process needs the "attraction of the hearts". It is in the domain of feelings.

The big mistake is to compare our modern science of the 21st century, with religions that are twenty centuries and more old. We are comparing two things that are abviously not comparable.

Should we not consider our modern scientific knowledge with a religion that is also for today?

.
C
2007-08-17 06:58:54 UTC
With such an open mind, and faith in Science it is odd that you completely and easily toss out the possibility that we were in fact created by a higher power.



Catholics are not against Science, but to take a love for Science so far as to blindly follow theories is no better than blindly following Religion.



For me, I studied Religion for over 20 years and became convinced of a higher power, God. I don't throw out Science, but don't accept every theory thrown out as fact either.



Good luck and Peace be with you!
Jack P
2007-08-17 06:55:47 UTC
It's a good question, but it's too long. Edit, edit, edit.



The answer I'd give is that 'science' of the television and high school biology variety is already the same as a religion for a lot of people.



And most of those people know about as much about science as most Christians know about the Bible.
?
2016-10-10 14:18:53 UTC
technology won't in any respect have each and all the solutions - there are continuously new questions - and faith will continuously have a house. Poeple will laways hit upon a thank you to have faith what they desire to have faith. interior a hundred years, we are able to verify yet another "substantial" faith strengthen, even with the incontrovertible fact that it may desire to have each and all the features of another substantial faith; convenience and solutions for those wanting convenience and solutions, open-hands to new individuals, a charismatic chief making delivers and predictions on no account to be fulfilled, an us-against-them persecution subject, and a keenness for taking credit for all it is nice and blame to others for all it is undesirable. Scientology is evidence of ways basic a style it relatively is to replica. somebody someplace will discover themeselves in a "extraordinary" subject and make the main it.
anonymous
2007-08-17 06:58:21 UTC
Errr no. Science is helpful but there is no way it will ever be seen as a religion. I mean the thing is scientists only believe in things that they can see. Whereas religion gives people hope as well as morals and understanding of life but you won't understand that unless you are religious. If there was no religion in this world. I would hate to think what it would have been like.
nondescript
2007-08-17 06:54:34 UTC
No. Science is really the opposite of religion.



Religion makes absolute claims and tries to make the evidence fit. Science looks at the evidence and tries to make sense of it.



Religion discourages people from questioning basic tenets. Science expects basic tenets to be challenged and will change those tenets based on new information.



Whoever told you that science is something that cannot be disputed was wrong. It's strength is in its ability to refute itself. Your examples actually illustrate this strength of science. You frequently have scientists looking at evidence and coming up with different conclusions. Those scientists don't split off into separate groups and launch bombs at each other or try to blow each other up.



Instead, those scientists try to get even more evidence to clarify the position. There might be egos bruised when a theory turns out to be wrong, but overall, it is expected in the scientific community that this will happen. Careers are made by refining or overturning older theories. They are not made by just toting the party line and not adding anything to it.



This is what makes religion so rigid and divisive and science so flexible.
F C
2007-08-17 10:38:24 UTC
nothing has to be like that. I had religion thrust down my neck for years I rejected it and now live quite happily as a witch, which in itself is a science but to question how, why when something works does your head in. You just have to accept some things as they are otherwise you will go in to melt down.
anonymous
2007-08-17 07:01:00 UTC
Things that are observable are the direct opposite of 'matters of faith'.



The only reason these things are counter-intuitive is because we are used to existing on the macro scale - in the 'medium-sized universe' as dawkins puts it. Subatomic particles behave in ways that we find confusing - but that doesn't mean they don't conform to discoverable, proveable laws governing objects of that scale.



Again, faith is only required for things you can't measure or observe. That's why faith doesn't apply in science. And that's why I delierately used a lowercase 's' on 'science'.
eevilcheese
2007-08-17 06:56:11 UTC
Maybe...but ALL of mathemitics, unless you go into abstract algebra, is based off 11 postulates, meaning those arent proven. Without those postulates, 2+1 doesnt necessarily equal 3.



Science is actually getting LESS theoretical if you think about it. I mean, as great a guy as plato was, all of his stuff is a big "what if" question.
koumiroberts27
2007-08-17 08:37:14 UTC
for me science has a better explanation to life and the universe. you do not need faith to believe in science. science has concrete facts to wheather or not it is true.
anonymous
2007-08-17 06:54:46 UTC
I don't think so, but even if it was, it would certainly be a better judge than ancient religions because it is always updating its information due to new discovery. Science doesn't call for worship, it calls for verifiable evidence. Would it be so bad if people trusted the most accurate judge of existence we possess? I think not.
anonymous
2007-08-17 07:04:11 UTC
Scientific publishing bias , is just as bad as the bible.....so-called Scientists are brain-washing the uneducated with crack-pot theories such as global-warming, passive smoking etc





The basic problem with the "Scientific method" is this.......if you don't get the results you want..throw them away..just publish the good ones
Avondrow
2007-08-17 06:53:09 UTC
No. Although subject to errors, Science is self-correcting in precisely the way a religion is not. Religion does not seek to test or investigate reality, it defines reality and rejects everything that conflicts with that definition. Science is practically the antonym of religion.
anonymous
2007-08-17 06:54:54 UTC
No. Science requires no faith. Only logic and common sense. Concepts not found in religion.
atheist
2007-08-17 06:55:37 UTC
Science doesn't expect "blind faith" and never will. Religion thrives on blind faith. It is the only way it will ever work.
anonymous
2007-08-17 07:01:49 UTC
TO ACCEPT ANYTHING AS AN ABSOLUTE IS VERY RISKY,QUANTUM PHYSICS AND REALITY QUALITY,NOT TO MENTION RECENT GEOLOGICAL DISCOVERIES, DO INDICATE ,THAT ,GIVEN THE CONDITIONS ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.SO ALWAYS TRY AND KEEP AN OPEN MIND.
anonymous
2007-08-17 06:54:44 UTC
I don't exactly see a bunch of physicists sitting around singing "I believe in Gravity"
Heralda
2007-08-17 09:17:26 UTC
I understand completely what you are saying. just listen to a scientist expound on String Theory and you quickly relaise that nothing they are saying can be proven, it is all based on faith in the theory, a new kind of theology.



So. everything in the universe is made up of invisible strings that vibrate, and there are different dimensions, like slices in a loaf of bread and we are on one of these slices called a brane, and matter can move from one brane to another, thus explaining why gravity is so weak, (try telling that to someone who's falling from a great height) and there may be a day when two branes touch and create another big bang similar to the one that created the universe, (thus explaining how in the beggining there was nothing, and then nothing exploded).



Hmm.



Well lets think logically about this. No one was there when the big bang happened. so anything anyone has to say about that is, and always will be, theory. Until String Theory can be incontrovertably proven it is only a theory, and as such, will have no benenfit to humankind unless some way of utilising it can be devised. Learn the theory, look at any developments with interest, but don't waste time worrying about something that may, or may not hold water. You can know what is written in the Bible, you don't have to believe it.



As for Climate Change, there is too much evidence to dismiss it as an unproven theory. True, we have had warming periods before, but what is happening is unprecedented. The warming has risen in line with the vast increase in CO2 emissions and it has become clear to the majority of scientists that the theory is correct. Deniers have pionted out that sunspot activity can affect temperatures and they have done in the past, but for the last 20 years sunspot activity has decreased, while temperatures have gone up (NASA data, look it up on their website).



There was a programme called the Great Global Warming Swindle, but it was proven that the programme makers had doctored graphs, used out of date data, and misrepresented the scientists consulted by editing their interveiws in such a way as to make it appear that they said the opposite of what they meant. The senior oceanographer at MIT, who took part in the programme, is considering suing them. Martin Durkin, who approached Channel 4 to air the programme was paid a substantial amount of money by vested commericial interests to make the film. You have to remember Global Warming is bad for business.



However, at the moment, that is the least of our worries. Another theory, formulated decades ago, is now slowly coming into the public consiencness and we are finding ourselves powerless to do anything about it. In the 1950's M King Hubbert predicted that the USA would reach its peak of oil production in 1970, and that the world's oil production would peak around the year 2000. Well he was right. USA oil production DID peak in 1970, and production of light, sweet crude peaked in 2005. Now we are being forced to utilise more of the heavy, sulphorous crude, which needs more processing before it can be used, thus driving up the oil price.



New discoveries of oil are being made, but they are in such difficult places that it is very expensive to extract them, so the price of the oil will be higher as a result. The University of Reading Peak Oil study group has, after careful analysis, conculded that we will reach the peak of all oil, worldwide, by 2011-2012. Most world governments have recognised there is a problem, there is even a Peak Oil group in the British Parliment.



So why is nothing being done? Why are we not conserving what is left? Well we can't. We have developed an economic model that depends on exponential growth. Capital is no longer the accumulated proceeds of labour, it is speculative, money being lent on the promise of profits not yet earned. The whole system is dependant on cheap, abundant oil. Without it, any slowdown in the economy would lead to recession. One only has to look at the Stock Market crisis unfolding around the world to see what happens when the economic railway train hits a snag. No government wants to be bamed for destroying the economy of their country by imposing restrictions on the use of energy.



It is now clear that although they may fluctuate, oil prices will never come down, they will only increase. This has reprucussions on a human level, as when oil prices increase, so does the cost of food production, as it is dependant on oil based fertilisers and pesticides, and transport and distribution systems. Your average plate of food in the western world has travelled 1,500 miles before you eat it.



But getting it to your plate is only half the story. The use of feritilisers has vastly increased crop yields, and thus a world popluation increase from a steady, but stable 2 billion, to 6 billion today. Without oil, these levels of population are unsustainable.



What about alternatives? There are none. There is nothing else as energy rich as oil, and every alternative that you can think of is actually a derivitive of oil. You need oil to make Hydrogen fuel cells (which, by the way are energy carriers, not a primary source of energy), you need oil to make solar panels and wind turbines, you need oil to mine uranium, (which is also running out), and even if Thorium can be used you still have to build Nuclear power stations and transport the fuels to it and store the waste.



Bio fuels? Well apart from needing oil based fertilisers, even if the entire grain crop of the USA was converted to making bio ethanol, it would only satisfy 16% of the demand for fuel. The same could be achieved by forcing motor manufacturers to make their cars more fuel efficient by say, 20mpg. With General Motors having such a huge influence in the USA government, that's unlikely. The same amount of corn that can make one tankful of biofuel could feed someone for a year.



Now we have the situation of food vs fuel. Already corn prices have doubled. That will effect the price of everything in your fridge, as corn is used as animal feed and so the production of milk, cheese, eggs, ice cream. yohurt, chicken, and beef is dependant on it.



So the cold hard facts are these. Fossil fuels are finite, the governments of the world are unwilling or unable to do anything about the looming energy and economic crises, and we don't have the social networks and community skills to help each other out of the mess, as we have been trained to believe that every man should be out for himself. The opinion of some (very clever) but detached mathmatician telling me about other dimensions will have no bearing on my future. My neighbour bartering carrots for my cabbages, will.
Sabrina Devareoux
2007-08-17 06:55:41 UTC
im all about science. im not sure what scientology is, but by the name of it, it sounds like science, but i havnt done research. good luck!
anonymous
2007-08-17 06:55:37 UTC
science is a religion you dummy have you ever heard about chaoists, and quatum mechanics.

You should study those.

THE LASER EXPERIMENT THAT GOT TO ANOTHER STATE 1 SECOND BEFORE IT WAS PROJECTED.!!!!!

*ELECTRONS HAVE A TIME REVERSAL OR A WAY TO MAKE TIME GO ON A DIFFERENT DIRECTION

look at there on the internet will ya plz
mister.alan
2007-08-17 06:52:39 UTC
sure will


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