Question:
Where do creationists get the gall to accuse evolutionists of being dishonest?
Upasakha Jason
2011-06-22 13:12:42 UTC
The last I checked, ID as a movement did the following:

1) Repackaged a creationist textbook to reintroduce into the public school system, in direct violation of a court ruling.

2) Lied on the stand in the Kitzmiller trial (the judge, who is a Christian, was appalled at the dishonesty of the creationists during the trial).

3) Lied to TV producers about the content of a program they wanted to air in order to get it on the air.

4) The very name, "Intelligent Design" is a rehash of the "Creationist" movement of the 1980's, which a court ruled was a religious doctrine, not scientific. The creationists renamed their movement "Intelligent Design" in order to get around the court's ruling and give themselves a veneer of scientific credibility.

5) Every single fraud creationists accuse evolutionary scientists of perpetrating were in fact discovered to be frauds by evolutionary scientists and researchers, yet creationists don't mention that part of it.

Who is *really* dishonest in the creation/evolution "debate?"
27 answers:
whtleopard11
2011-06-22 13:21:00 UTC
Why don't you go to a science group and post your questions there?

This is the spiritual and religious site.
Christopher
2011-06-22 13:22:13 UTC
Creationists don't have the general idea that Evolutionists are liars, just that Creationists are right and Evolutionists are wrong. And Evolutionists think that they're right and Creationists are wrong.



I'm sure that there are SOME Creationists that have spiteful impressions of Evolutionists and SOME may call Evolutionists liars. And the same can absolutely be said of SOME Evolutionists. And I don't doubt that SOME people from both groups may lie.



It's a vicious cycle that leads to generalizing that both groups are hateful when only SOME of the two groups hold such views.
Nikon f5
2011-06-22 13:17:25 UTC
I think to a certain extent many atheist's hand's are tied by the need to be honest with themselves and others, many find it dishonest to make outrageous claims that we have not sought to validate within the boundaries of reality. That's why such outlandish claims are often made by creationists, claims with no reality or logic. Trying to address these untruths whilst staying within the boundaries of truth is nigh on impossible. Two sets of rules.
?
2011-06-22 13:24:45 UTC
Really?



1) The "Piltdown Man" was a hoax in which bone fragments were presented as the fossilised remains of a previously unknown early human. These fragments consisted of parts of a skull and jawbone, said to have been collected in 1912 from a gravel pit at Piltdown, East Sussex, England. The Latin name Eoanthropus dawsoni ("Dawson's dawn-man", after the collector Charles Dawson) was given to the specimen. The significance of the specimen remained the subject of controversy until it was exposed in 1953 as a forgery, consisting of the lower jawbone of an orangutan that had been deliberately combined with the skull of a fully developed modern human.



The Piltdown hoax is perhaps the most famous archeological hoax ever. It has been prominent for two reasons: the attention paid to the issue of human evolution, and the length of time (more than 40 years) that elapsed from its discovery to its full exposure as a forgery.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man



2) Professor Reiner Protsch von Zieten was a professor of anthropology at Frankfurt University for 30 years before he was forced to resign. It was found that he falsified dates on many "stone age" fossils which included a skull fragment named Hahnhöfersand Man which supposedly linked humans and Neanderthals. The scientific fraud only came to light when he was caught attempting to sell his department's complete chimpanzee skull collection to the United States. An investigation later established that he had also passed off fake fossils as genuine ones.



http://www.conservapedia.com/Theory_of_Evolution_and_Cases_of_Fraud,_Hoaxes_and_Speculation



3) Since most people assume the fossil record is supportive of evolution...



Dr. David Kitts, professor of geology at the University of Oklahoma said, "Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and paleontology does not provide them...."



And Lord Zuckerman admitted there are no "fossil traces" of transformation from an ape-like creature to man! Even Stephen J. Gould of Harvard admitted, "The fossil record with its abrupt transitions offers no support for gradual change." Darwin admitted the same fact.



Famous fossil expert, Niles Eldredge confessed, "...geologists have found rock layers of all divisions of the last 500 million years and no transitional forms were contained in them." Dr. Eldredge further said, "...no one has yet found any evidence of such transitional creatures."



Concerning transitional fossils, world famous paleontologist Colin Patterson admitted that "there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument." Not one.



[CONCERNING THIS LAST POINT.... If there was a WATERTIGHT argument... we would ALL know about it!]



In recent years we have discovered that Neanderthal Man was simply a man with rickets and arthritis, not the much desired "ape man."



http://www.cstnews.com/Code/FaithEvl.html





There is a LOT more that could be brought to the table - but bottom line - if the rational and scientific approach was working - these frauds would have been thrown out of their respective fields YEARS ago through peer-review. Instead much is simply accepted and moved into established "dogma"
INYOURFUTURE
2011-06-22 13:23:22 UTC
BOTH are dishonest because you can't teach Intelligent design from within the natural realm meaning within the realm of our Republican and Democrat wing which is also known in

Scripture as the realm of all flesh. All flesh descends from the womb on this side of the actual cross of Christ and this side is ruled by the god of this world and his name is Lucifer and his eternal Kingdom is always down in the west as it was during the garden of Eden. It is still down in the west and directly in front of our Democrat wing. The invisible and eternal Kingdom of Christ is always up in Heaven and to the east of our Republican wing. This is why Scripture says, "Seek YE FIRST the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added unto you!" Christians rarely ever seek their own Kingdom nor do they ever talk about it out in public because it would expose them for appearing to YOU in their OLD American nature as Conservative etc. Our inner most being is already eternal and comes from the invisible Kingdom of Christ. Between these two eternal Kingdom there is a road that leads east and up into Heaven and another that leads west and down into Lucifer's Kingdom which leads then to hell.
anonymous
2011-06-22 13:22:56 UTC
It's because creationists know that if they try to find legitimate evidence to support their ideas they will find non so they have to make up lies in order to try to gain more authority. They don't really care about being honest. They just figure that so long as the masses are to ignorant to figure out their lies then their lies are ok.
anonymous
2011-06-22 13:18:17 UTC
Christianity is truly an "anything goes" religion. That includes outright lying and attempting to infiltrate the public school system in the name of, ultimately, money and power.



They really have nothing but fairy tales here.



I hope this does not bring the USA down any further in the scientific community.
Think Outside the BOX
2011-06-22 13:53:37 UTC
Hi Jason.



Dishonesty and mud flinging are on both sides of the fence. Human nature. There was a paper that was withdrawn from publication because it attacked the standpoint of precious evolution.



http://www.math.utep.edu/Faculty/sewell/AML_3497.pdf



There are no mathematical errors in it, but it was withdrawn from publication from the Applied Mathematical Letters.



Grace & Peace
Annie
2011-06-22 13:24:46 UTC
I don't have to have gall to state what I know ..... Evolution is NOT proven in any way, shape or form.... So I leave the idea OPEN..... I don't care if people don't believe in God as our creator, just do NOT state that what is taught in our schools, or what you WANT taught in our schools, as KNOWN FACTS, putting it out as *this IS the way it was *, when you do NOT know..... I don't do that... Yes, there are those who do..... Big whoop.... I have more pressing things in life to worry about than how,when or where the first amoeba starting talking.....



Scientist are bigger liars than most other folks..... Who has more to lose ? Them or me..... I have nothing to lose.... Creation or secular scientist..... They are all the same..... They ALL want to see their names in lights......



go in peace.... God bless
Rocky
2011-06-22 13:25:59 UTC
I will not argue with you--some Creationist have lied but your group does not have the cleanest of slates. Man in general is often more interested in his reputation--making one and keeping it often get mixed up in their minds when chasing false trails as evolution--which includes transitional species. You imply they had a plan, and the purity of the evolutionist did not for even one of their own exposed the false side of evolution--names of humanoids that did not exist, bones used to prove certain statements found to be from another animal, teeth also. The whole field of evolutional science is full of half lies and often full lies of intent to deceive. You want a reference, see the following:



http://www.darwinism-watch.com/index.php?git=kategori&kategori_id=31
Blackacre
2011-06-22 13:15:11 UTC
It's tough to take seriously any movement that starts with the premise "a magical sky fairy 'poofed' everything into being, knocked up a married virgin, and had the offspring executed to save the rest of us... now lets find some evidence."
anonymous
2011-06-22 13:17:46 UTC
Christians lying under oath... some of them even threatened some people on their lives because they were against Creationism



They also misrepresented and made up lies about a scientists work on the flagellum
interested1208
2011-06-22 13:26:13 UTC
You can claim all sorts of things when you don't actually have to provide evidence...



After all, Superman leaps tall buildings...



IMHO
anonymous
2011-06-22 13:16:57 UTC
Facts are often twisted to match the theories. Otherwise, they can't continue to get grant money from the secular politicians.
Polytheist
2011-06-22 13:14:15 UTC
Creationist blindly follow and parrot whatever their religious leaders tell them
?
2011-06-22 13:19:10 UTC
They've been selectively breeding for big balls going on years now...
Miss Grace
2011-06-22 13:16:13 UTC
From sustained wilful ignorance, that's where.



It's bizarre, pathetic and tragic.
lainiebsky
2011-06-22 13:16:50 UTC
Creationism is based on dishonesty, so don't be surprised when they lie about that too
anonymous
2011-06-24 09:32:52 UTC
God told them to do it. JK!
οικος
2011-06-22 13:14:57 UTC
Don't you know that anything is allowable as long as the correct god is on your side?
anonymous
2011-06-22 13:13:29 UTC
It's tough to accept anything else when you've had the Bible drilled into your skull for your whole life.
anonymous
2011-06-22 13:16:49 UTC
You have obviously not been informed concerning the number of times Evolutionists have falsified evidence to back up their unprovable theory to date.
anonymous
2011-06-22 13:18:31 UTC
It's a crime against humanity if you ask me.
?
2011-06-22 13:13:46 UTC
Where do they get the gall to do anything? From Jeebus.
hghostinme
2011-06-22 13:14:48 UTC
Last I checked all REAL Science has shown evolution is still just a speculation and an assumption with NO Real evidence of Truth....so sounds to me its Still the Evolutionists who are the dishonest ones !!!
The Dude
2011-06-22 13:15:08 UTC
They just make up things as they go...
magix151
2011-06-24 11:37:08 UTC
From their gall bladders! Thanks to evolution, we all have them!


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