atheists!- help me out here?

Question

i came across this video a few days ago, and no one that i have asked has given a good response to it, so any atheist out there, what is your response to this guy's argument? -http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=95363c2a2ae7d57ac384
thank you for your time!

Answer 1

All he did was quote something from what somebody said in a book. Just cause somone says something doesn't make it true. I would just laugh at his own stupidity.

Answer 2

Well after 2 minutes the guy had misinterpreted nearly every quote or concept that he was trying to refute. For example "purpose" is a very ill used term, this person has a notion that purpose is linked somehow to intelligence, however "purpose" if you wish to use that term in "naturalism" or evolution has a completely different connotation. While there is no "divinely inspired purpose", in reality, life has the "purpose" of existing and reproducing. In this light, if a biological development (mutation) helps a set of organisms survive or reproduce, it has a "purpose".



Basically, this video is an attempt at sounding correct and intelligible while completely murdering and missing the implications of what he is saying.



Edit:

One other thing I noticed was his assertion/quote that "ought" is linked to "what is believed to be correct" . He then goes on to state, form this quote that ought is a reflection of the way things should be/are. Sorry, he was so confused about his usage of the quote that I'm having a hard time following his lack of logic. Basically he turned the definition of ought into a meaning that it is (one is a belief the other a statement of fact).



Edit:

"Pursue truth and justice" I suspect that you have a very different idea about what "truth" is than what I do. Believers tend to use truth in a very nebulous fashion based on Jesus saying that he is the truth. Let's try this out, What is the truth behind an optical illusion? Jesus. Hmm no, that doesn't quite work, however, if you find out that it takes about 1/10 of a second for the mind to fully perceive signals from the eyes, and that in order to compensate it projects what it thinks it is going to see, all of a sudden you actually have truth - that the mind creates a false perception of what it thinks it will see.



Justice is simply self interest, i.e. if everyone is treated fairly, then I will be treated fairly.

Answer 3

Okay...so when the "Atheist preachers" as he calls is..say we "ought" to be searching for truth...and that "oughtness" is to know how something should be....the "Atheist preachers" are not talking about a purpose of life and how we got here and all of that...they are talking about we should want truth over a lie. Now...what has that to do with the purpose of life?

There is no point to life...but the point that YOU make it to be.

Some people want there lives to be about their children, some want to have money, others want love... it is what you choose. You don't have to choose anything...because in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. But I don't know about you...but I do not live for the "grand scheme of things" I live because I am here and there are people on this earth that I care for...I live for this moment...because, really this is all we have.



I think this guy was just twisting stuff around.







THE REASON WHY ATHEISTS SEARCH FOR TRUTH IN A PURPOSELESS WORLD IS BECAUSE THE LIES ( RELIGION) ARE KILLING PEOPLE!!!!!!!

Answer 4

I actually agree that many atheists make a "leap of faith" and in someways are as faithful as any religious person. However, my response to this argument would be that people like Richard Dawkins are using the word "ought" in a slightly different way than this man supposes. Rather than saying the world ought to be like it was planned, he means something more like the world ought to be the way that would maximize happiness and well-being.



This would still justify morality and communal responsibility, but with a rational basis. People would do something (i.e. recycle) because it will have a logical, positive cause and effect on the world and not do things (i.e. go to church) just because religion says they should.

Answer 5

Man is his own purpose. His existence and survival is all the purpose he needs to justify his quest for truth, the kind of purpose that the man in the video claims is necessary in order to use the "ought". From a strictly rational point of view, the truth is that God does not exist (except in the minds of believers) and religion has probably far more harm to man than it ever has done good. Opposition to religion in favor of atheism is entirely justified based on these rational observations.

Answer 6

I'm halfway through his argument right now and it's built on a false premise. Find me an atheistic writer saying the word OUGHT, not even in the context you used, but just the word. They say we SHOULD be doing these things. Not ought to be doing things. So his argument so far is a rambling speech with no other point than to perhaps define the word ought.

Answer 7

His argument is false because he assumes that Atheists don't understand the purpose of life.



We do, so as a result we can make a statement about what humanity 'ought' to be doing.



Life is and has always been about propagating itself, we can see this in every aspect of life. That is its purpose. Atheists don't claim that life has no purpose, but that the religious purpose needed for creation doesn't exist.



The purpose of life is to live, therefore, we ought to seek truth and the betterment of humanity through understanding. We ought to use the best tools available to do that, and religious belief has been proven unreliable and even harmful to that purpose.



Just because believers claim there is 'more to life' than living, doesn't make it so, but it also doesn't negate the true purpose of life, which is the living part.

Answer 8

He misunderstands some things.



First, evolution is a "Blind Watchmaker" in the sense that it is not some consciousness that has a plan in mind... it's just a natural process.



But that process produces things which DO have a purpose.



Brains, for instance. Brains have a purpose. They are there to govern an organism's movements, thoughts, etc.



Human brains have evolved to want answers, to be curious.





Why? Because being curious leads to learning and discovery, and learning and discovery leads to a better quality of life which leads to a better chance at survival, which leads to a better chance at successfully passing on genes.



So, our brains have a purpose, and part of that purpose, or "what it's made to do" is to seek out answers.

Answer 9

I agree with much that has already been stated, so I will not bore you with reiterating any of that. I would like to add that he is assuming all atheists believe life is worthless. Or that they collectively believe this or that... the only thing collectively believed by all atheists is that there is not a God. Anything beyond that are the thoughts/beliefs of each individual atheist.

Answer 10

"Ought" is conditional. When I use that word, I'm not using it to define the purpose of man. I am using it to say what should be done given a certain situation.

If we don't know our origin, we ought to be looking for it through observation, etc without the aid of religion. That is not an existential statement decribing the purpose of mankind. It's purely situational.

If a pitcher's giving up a ton of walks, he ought to throw strikes. That has nothing to do with life's purpose.

Answer 11

Existence is not dependent with Purpose, the two are mutually exclusively.



ex. A "pencil maker's" purpose for a pencil is for writing/drawing...but pencil can be use to stab someone and kill them, so was the pencil designed to "kill" people as well? No, the one fundamental mistake that the video makes is that it implies that the "creator/inventor/maker" is responsible for purpose...where in fact the relationship of purpose and its product(pencil/life/things) is NOT objective...



in other words, atheist/naturalist do believe in purpose, but they believe that they are subjective, everyone has their on purpose for different things(man made things for the most part)...and for different reason.

Answer 12

He's a pretty clever guy with some interesting statements. The only problem is that this is against Atheism but is in no way for religion. It doesn't prove anything. it's a whole different concept. It's like saying, "you thought there was a glass on the table but i proved there wasn't, therefore, pink unicorns exist."

Answer 13

Well he really did not say anything. It was alot of double talk about "ought" but was nothing more than a con man's smoke and mirror's stage show without any real proof either way. It was amusing though.

Answer 14

I didn't even finish it.



The guy was nitpicking at specific pieces of comments made in support of the stance which he is refuting, and using this as an argument to refute that stance.



He offers no evidence to support the existence of a supernatural creator, just convoluted attacks against others who agree with Dawkins and the like to find fault in Dawkins et. al. and their statements.

Answer 15

Since he really hasn't demonstrated that "oughtness" requires a purpose and also hasn't demonstrated that purpose is proof of a creator, there isn't that much to say.

Answer 16

He really doesn't have a point.



He ought to shut up.



You believe this idiot?



He had no argument.



Oh yeah and the idiot used a double negative.



He ought to go back to school.



Just cause someone uses the word "ought" does not make everything they say wrong.



wow.

Answer 17

what argument? Just someone playing with words, expressing his opinion, which he is entitled to do.

Answer 18

seriously? wow!

so he knows everything about everything it seems... maybe he is god -.-

i dnt know what else to say without getting my answer reported :(

btw i was being sarcastic abt him being god...lol



im sure some very "intelligent" christians will start to quote the guy... but hey wat can u do...

Answer 19

Wow.



I think nothing of that video.





After all it is on "God tube",that pretty much says it all.

Answer 20

Are you sure atheism is the correct path?

Answer 21

please change i beg you and for the every athiest on here is hell really the past you chose to burn you must be idiots you could have the lord and eternal life but you chose eternal burning thirst misery please please change great is the lord and he still loves you dont turn on him for he does not turnon to...i will pray for you in my tonights pray wait nevermind ill pray for you now

Answer 22

Why is he speaking in a garage?

Answer 23

sure...riiiiight.

Answer 24

I will be glad to help you... Please don't bite... I am only presenting the Bible a is...



Whatever is in the Bible was written by some primitive religious perverts who knew how to use their writing skills to control religious people... In those days any religion was as savage and primitive as you can imagine... and the Bible is a hangover from those days... THE BIBLE GOD WORSHIPED BY CHRISTIANS IN AMERICA IS AS BLOODY AND WICKED AS YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY IMAGINE BECAUSE WE ARE LIVING IN AN ADVANCED AND PROSPEROUS SOCIETY ALWAYS TRYING TO SMOOTH OUT THE ROUGH EDGES OF OUR NATIONAL GOD THAT WE TRUST AND OBEDIENTLY SUBMIT...!!! Please don’t report me to YA... I am telling you the way it is in the Bible... This is a taboo subject that the Bible Institute trained clergy and preachers of all brands know how to avoid….!!! The “LOVING” Bible God is totally powerless to teach anybody a lesson without FORCING you to eat your own children for dinner for whatever reason in the Land Flowing with Milk and Honey so you can learn a lesson at the expense of the innocent children! (But relax… we are making up for him banning ALL ABORTIONS!!! So there will be more children for dinner! Spiritually speaking, of course…!)



The Bible God's sadistic BDSM pleasures will blow your mind! They are the kinkiest ones ever to be invented...!!! THROUGHOUT THE BIBLE GOD HAS THE PLEASURE OF FORCING YOU TO EAT YOUR OWN CHILDREN FOR DINNER...!!! Christians refuse to accept these despicable sections in their Bible... they feel that the DEVIL seeded this information to confuse them! And we can understand that. They also claim that the Devil seeded the Earth with dinosaur fossils, too! So that is why Fundamentalist Evangelicals force their member to read the Bible in an obscure King James Version so Christians won’t wise up that easily and the clergy can explain away any gross savagery in the Bible to their brainwashed submissive flock!



Leviticus 26:29 - (God says) YOU WILL eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.



Deuteronomy 28:53-57 - Because of the suffering that your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the LORD your God has given you* (*This Bible God won’t protect the innocent children that he gave you, but you will survive eating them…! Praise the LORD! Sweet Jesus!). Even the most gentle and sensitive man* (*not a homosexual or a Godless atheist, but a chosen child of God!) among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating… (Isn’t this God’s provision for his people so wonderful in the Land Flowing with Milk and Honey?)



Jeremiah 19:9 - I (GOD, not SATAN!) WILL MAKE THEM eat the flesh of their sons and daughters...



Ezekiel 5:10 - Therefore in your midst fathers WILL EAT their children...



Lamentations 4:10 - With their own hands compassionate* (*Godly… NON-ATHEISTIC!) women HAVE COOKED THEIR OWN CHILDREN...



This is not the only episode of eating children in the Bible!!! Here is another one… You can’t possible spiritualize anything in here!!!



2 Kings 6:26-29 (NIV) As the king of Israel was passing by on the wall, a woman cried to him, “Help me, my lord the king!” The king replied, “If the Lord does not help you, where can I get help for you? From the threshing floor? From the winepress?” Then he asked her, “What's the matter?” She answered, “This woman said to me, ‘Give up your son so we may eat him today, and tomorrow we'll eat my son.’ So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, ‘Give up your son so we may eat him,’ but she had hidden him.”* (*Isn’t this CHEATING? No wonder God had to punish this EVIL people!)



These were “compassionate* (*Godly, non-Atheistic) women that HAVE COOKED THEIR OWN CHILDREN...” All in all, God appears to be a loving God… even for the Christian today… It is in the Bible, too!



Isaiah 49:15 “Can a mother forget the baby at her breast and have no compassion on the child she has borne? Though she may forget, I* (*God) will not forget you!* (Yeah... this sadistic SOB will make you eat your own babies!)



So you see, by his own admission the Bible God is a vulgar sadistic pervert that the Christians love to worship! I am not quoting an obscure isolated verse in the Bible, but eating your own children for dinner is part of the Bible theme that the clergy know how to hide from public knowledge so they can still market Christianity in the world today!



Relax ye all… the Bible God is the human imagination gone berserk writing a book to control illiterate religious people of old and to make money on their gullibility and still works today! I notice that Christians here are extremely dishonest no to tell everybody all the Bible facts!!! They tell you that Jesus was whipped, and beaten, and thoroughly marinated in Roman spit, and nailed to a Holy Cross as a spotless Lamb of God. Then you MUST EAT HIS MEAT AND DRINK HIS BLOOD (for real, symbolically or however else!) to make it into his Heavenly Kingdom! The idea of eating sons and daughters has been conditioned for the religious mind all along in the Bible! The preachers don’t tell you that the unchangeable Bible God MAKES you eat your own children when he wants to call your attention! If you are lucky he will only KILL your children without you having to eat them!!! Not only that, but the Bible promotes the killing of infants to get rid of future enemies of God!!!



Psalm 137:8-9 - O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us- he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.



The Bible teaches that the enemies of God ought to be killed in their infancy when it is easier to get rid of them (Amen?) So abortion is not that bad… after all… IT IS VERY HUMANE!... notice “humane” versus “Godly”… Godly requires that the fetus be born before it can be destroyed as an infant!!! The Bible is mute on abortions because it deals with killing CHILDREN when it really hurts… after they are born!!! Too bad that the news media doesn’t get involved in objective reporting of the religious doctrines in the Bible! Uneducated Christians hate me with all their guts because I tell you like it is. I can understand what Rashdie is going through…



The whole Bible was obviously written by some sadistic perverts so disgusting that if you are a normal human being you ought to feel like puking!!! Christians must truly be brainwashed to “love” a Bible God like this one! God the Son Jesus Christ is hardly any better!



Revelation 2:23 (NIV) (Jesus says) I WILL STRIKE HER CHILDREN DEAD* (*No abortionist can beat Jesus at killing babies… AMEN??? Sweet Jesus is the one having the pleasure of doing the killing of children so he can teach everybody a lesson on WHO IS THE BOSS! The Clergy earned millions printing books about Jesus love for the little children of the world without telling anybody about Jesus’ vicious children killing craze. In our society today he would be in jail for promoting the killing of children to favor a particular religion!!!). Then ALL THE CHURCHES WILL KNOW that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.* (*I’m the BOSS says Jesus! Praise the LORD! Sweet Jesus… He is such a great teacher and he must have learned all that from the Mafia!... or is it the way around?)



Most preachers and clergy don’t seem to know that there is so much crap in the Bible because in their Bible Institutes they study ONLY the Bible stories that make them look good and are good at making money for their particular Christian brand… and charities, of course! So they can LOVINGLY fool a whole NATION LIKE THE USA to TRUST AND SUBMIT UNDER this wicked GOD. The Christian Clergy and preachers today are no different from any Heathen shaman anytime anywhere in the World that’s probably they are sill welcome in most countries! That they are pushing this gross sadistic God masquerading as “JESUS LOVES YOU” and “GOD LOVES YOU” on the whole World! I know it is in the best interest of our National security to do so… Who would dare to teach all the facts in this primitive Bible! Today we need a better Bible more in accord with factual science and realistic moral values if religion is to survive! Christians use traditional FORCE to get me suspended all the time… They can’t possibly deal with plain FACTS either from science or from their own Bible! They are not much different from the Muslims! I am also concerned about my personal integrity… I am not joking! IF THERE IS A REAL BIBLE GOD LET HIM (NOT YOU!) STRIKE ME DEAD like he does so often in so many stories in the Bible!!! I honestly pity Christianity and Christians in particular…