A Gospel Enigma: Eternal has no starting point, so how can the pastor promise a start for eternal life?

Question

By definition, eternal has no starting point, and yet eternal life is promised in Matthew 19:29, Luke 18:30, John 3:16. John 4:14, and John 5:24. My guess is that Jesus is talking about waking up to something that is already there... rather than the Pauline idea that a person can be adopted by God and thus gain eternal life.

Jesus never spoke of an "adoption." That Pauline idea of adoption would be opposed to being an actual child of God.

In the story of the Prodigal Son, the son was always the son (eternal life was always there)... but the son just remembered the heritage that was always there.

Is it an adoption as Paul preached or are we real children of God as Jesus taught?

Eternal life being there also would mean that EVERYONE is in the same boat... and "crusades" and "witnessing" is not about making a person God's child, but rather, a "child of the light" (or waking up as in John 12:36)

Background and source for this question... http://gospelenigma.com Ch. 18

Answer 1

Well, a ray goes on forever, but it does have a starting point. If you have a powerful laser beam and you shine it out into space, the light goes on forever, but it all originated from one spot. If you side with Jesus and say that eternal life is like waking up, then there's still the issue of you mortal life having a definite start and end.

Answer 2

Yes, it is right.



Which seems to be an understatement in this verse of Jeremiah:



Jeremiah 1:5

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."



But I see it as just a little more complex than that. It's like eternity is a constant stream, and we are outside of it, blowing around like leaves in a wind, when we touch the water we gain weight and settle into the water. But some may never touch that stream.



The stream I'm talking about is the eternal stream of promise and blessing.



So there are many who do not fall from a tree anywhere near that stream. It wasn't for them to know that stream. While others of us can fall into it, God was the one who placed the trees where they grow.



I hope this analogy is making sense to you.

Answer 3

The whole idea of being "children of God" is a lot like the gnostic thinking. Gnostics believe we all have a "spark of the divine" (much like the holy spirit) within us. Our bodies are nothing more than temporary vessels for this spark. This "spark" this bit of the divine is our soul which existed before we were born and will continue to exist after our physical body dies.



A lot of Jesus' early followers- Thomas and Judas to name two- held these beliefs, and started a whole gnostic movement in paralell to the orthodox Christianity which eventually won out. They believed that Jesus was still important, not as your lord and personal savior, but as a guide to help you achieve awareness of the spark within- sort of a "do it yourself" salvation.



So, "children of God," "adopted by God," or "carrying a little fragment of God within your self" three slightly different ways of looking at tthe same thing. Which one is right? I haven't a clue. My take on this matter is that the early followers of Jesus were trying to make sense of it all (the soul), and not having very good luck.



Some people also believe that God's grace and salvation will be given to all regardless of how they act in this life. I believe there is a certain amount of choosing we do- choosing God or running away from God, denying God. The prodigal son parable is a good example of this idea of choosing and its consequenses. I believe your soul is eternal, existing outside of time. We can choose to walk with God and we can encourage others to do so (witnessing, evangelizing, etc).



good luck,

-Wilds

Answer 4

you are certainly correct, this does sound interesting to be sure.



consider for a moment that you are alive. this life is the only thing you know, but you do know that at some point you will die. that transition of what we experience called death, strips away the flesh revealing a spirit that was created (yes, has a beginning) to be eternal.



this spirit is so eternal, that God has to either warehouse the soul that sins (in punishment called hell) or he takes that spirit to live with him in place beyond wonder and amazement, created for them.



in the human experience, the bristle cone pine, aka methusala tree, which is many thousand of years old. if a generation of people would be grown up to witness the trees life span (in excess of 6000 years known to date) the tree would be considered eternal, though in this case it would have an end.



in the case of the human spirit, it starts and grows under a veil of flesh revealing its true eternal nature only when the flesh dies off.



i personally believe that there is suffient evidence to support the eternal nature of the soul or spirit/as well as proof of the supernatural which i would normally credit with being from satan with the express purpose of leading men astray from the truth.



keep in mind that the bible is really very simple. believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and that God raised him from the dead and you will be saved. how much greater your faith grows and your walk with a living God goes is up to you.



I take my dog walking a lot and we do things together. when it is time to eat, he would rather spend time with me than eat until he is sure i'm not just about to leave.



in the bible we have a similar event in the life of Christ. he send the disciples to town to buy food and engages a woman in the gospel at the well. the disciples come back and say, eat, here is the food. Christ says, I have meat to eat that you know not of.



he is speaking of the spiritual food he gets from being in direct contact with God, and that is only because he too has an eternal spirit. Unlike mankind, he has no beginning, but like mankind, he could commune with the LORD in heaven and receive in him, the substancial spriritual blessing from heaven.



do not be side tracked by difficult things. they may not have satisfactory answers in our life time, but that does not mean we can not seek to peer into the mysteries of life and spirit, nor understand even in a limited way, what is reality.

Answer 5

You are wrong, by definition, the word eternal has nothing to do with what has come before. Eternal, is without end. Without beginning has nothing to do with it. Eternal, is perpetual, continued without intermission.



Look up the definition. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eternal



Let's assume a diamond, actually IS forever. That diamond was not always a diamond. It had a definite starting point. Assuming it will last forever, it can be said the diamond will exist eternally, or the diamond is eternal.



Your argument is not valid, just because you don't understand infinity CAN have a starting point.

Answer 6

No one upon this Earth has eternal life. That is the great hope through Christ that we may gain eternal life. All these church goers claim to have eternal life yet they will die. We all die someday so obviously we cannot have eternal life yet. On resurrection day we will be raised perfect with eternal life. Hence a starting point for us. We were not made immortal but shall gain immortality through faith in Christ.

Answer 7

Before Jesus died only Israelites were children of God. We were adopted through the shedding of his blood. Jesus could call us children because he knew he would be shedding his blood to make the adoption legal. Jesus preached mainly to the Jews, Paul preached to the gentiles after Jesus was resurrected.

Answer 8

Eternity can have a starting point but it has no end. God has no beginning and no end but we do. Having been created, we have a beginning. Only God can create something out of nothing.

Answer 9

Eternity means forever. You don't know much about eternity. It is not about starting eternity it is about changing which eternity you will face. You can continue in wickedness and face eternity in hell fire or you can be transformed, and enjoy your eternity with God. Your choice (free will).

Answer 10

Lean NOT unto thine own understanding.Jesus Christ offers the gift of everlasting life.You can keep analizing it and stay on the road to hell.The choice is yours.