Question:
Do you agree that "faith is the evidence of things not seen?"?
No Chance Without Cheeses
2012-03-27 09:08:33 UTC
For the record I DON'T agree, I just wondered what you would think. I am never quite certain how words like "evidence" and "truth" can ever be used in matters of faith.
24 answers:
MK6
2012-03-27 09:13:30 UTC
You can exercise faith that your car will be there the next morning in your driveway.



Yes, - you can use evidence from the prior day to come up with a reasonable conclusion.



And the truth is.... your car may or may not be there. But some have confidence that there IS a truth authored by our Creator. - It's our job to pursue and embrace it.
Samwise
2012-03-27 09:40:12 UTC
The difficulty here is that however you interpret the Greek word "hypostasis," the translation to "evidence" is likely to be misleading.



Hebrews 11:1 is widely interpreted, by some Christians and a great many modern atheists, as a definition, and one that boils down to the idea that faith is a cocksure certainty that one is right about everything. A careful reading suggests that the writer didn't intend this as a definition, and the meaning of "hypostasis" in this context might be closer to "realization," in the sense that faith gives us a basis for interpreting the inevitable unknown in a way we choose, based on belief.



The usual interpretation (certainty one is right) has the problem that it's incompatible with practically every other use of the concept of "faith" in the entire Bible. People don't demonstrate "faith" in themselves; they demonstrate it in a commitment to a relationship. And until recently, this was the ordinary meaning of the word: we speak of being "faithful" to spouses or of "keeping faith" in our commitments to others. The rest of Hebrews 11, in fact, is specific examples of faith in that sense.



I suspect the modern use of the term was badly damaged by the practice of describing someone's religious category (Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Wiccan, etc.) as his "faith"; from that we got the idea that faith was the set of beliefs rather than the commitment. From there it became popular to treat Hebrews 11:1 as a definition, though scholars pointed out it wasn't. (John Calvin, for instance, disputed that treatment in the 16th century.)





"Evidence," of course, has recently been corrupted, too. The New Atheist writers promote substituting it for "proof," thus obscuring the status of most belief systems (including theirs); there's no proof, but there's lots of evidence. Try telling any judge that witness statements aren't evidence!



As to "truth," I maintain there is such a thing as absolute truth, but I also maintain that it's inherently beyond the grasp of humanity. All any of us, or even all of us together, can grasp is mere fragments of it.
Stiobhan
2012-03-27 09:44:39 UTC
My religion doesn't operate on "faith" so I don't have a clear understanding of why faith would outweigh actual evidence/experience in some religions, or why it is given so much weight by followers of faith based religions.



Evidence and truth can certainly be used in matters of religion, but in matters of faith (shrugs), I guess I just don't see the point.
2012-03-27 09:15:46 UTC
No I think to hold such an opinion would be intellectually dishonest to oneself. Faith is the belief in that which cannot be proven, and it's this definition of faith that religious people quite often forget.

To have faith in a God is supposed to be a virtue and a sign of courage. The idea of why faith is supposed to be so spiritually powerful a force is based on trusting in god *despite* the evidence to the contrary. It's what makes doubt so essential to the believer. Those who understand their doubts have mastered them, and can use their faith to quieten them. Those Believers who say they do not doubt are dishonest.



Many religious people here are too busy making up stories about how they "know" God is real. They don't realise how much they invalidate their own theological stance by doing that. If God did exist, he would not be pleased at such dishonesty.



Thats why I still continue to admire believers with true faith - not the parroted ignorance of those who lie to themselves saying they are certain of god's existence and live without doubt.



It shouldn't take an atheist to keep the religious true to their beliefs.
gpn7504
2012-03-27 09:27:49 UTC
Ok ... I agree in part...and I am a Christian



so the explanation to your question , where you quote Hebrews 11



... the people who believe in God ... those people themselves would be evidence of a religion without having to understand the religion at all... just basic people believing in God would be evidence of religion...



evidence of faith... evidence of things not seen
bible pioneer
2012-03-27 09:39:32 UTC
Yes, I agree. In addition, some have explained this quote with the following:



Rom. 10:17: “Faith follows the thing heard.” (Compare Acts 17:11, 12; John 4:39-42; 2 Chronicles 9:5-8. A person must first find out what the Bible says, and he will strengthen his conviction if he examines it carefully so as to be convinced of its reliability.)



Rom. 10:10: “With the heart one exercises faith.” (By meditating on godly things to build up appreciation for them, a person impresses them on his figurative heart.)



Faith is strengthened when a person acts on God’s promises and then sees the evidence of God’s blessing on what he has done.—See Psalm 106:9-12.



Illustration: Perhaps you have a friend of whom you would say: ‘I trust that man. I can count on him to keep his word; and I know that if I have a problem, he will come to my help.’ It is not likely that you would be saying that about anyone you met for the first time yesterday, is it? He would have to be someone with whom you had long association, someone who had proved his dependability time and again. It is similar with religious faith. To have faith, you need to take time to get to know Jehovah and his way of doing things.



When a person becomes well acquainted with the record of Jehovah’s dealings with his servants, he comes to share the viewpoint of Joshua, who said: “You well know with all your hearts and with all your souls that not one word out of all the good words that Jehovah your God has spoken to you has failed. They have all come true for you. Not one word of them has failed.”—Josh. 23:14.



The Bible’s promises of renewed health, resurrection from the dead, and so forth, are fortified by the record of miracles performed by Jesus Christ. These are not fables. Read the Gospel accounts and see the evidence that they bear all the marks of historical authenticity. Geographical locations are named; the names of contemporary secular rulers are given; more than one eyewitness account has been preserved.



Meditating on this evidence can strengthen your faith in the Bible’s promises.
?
2012-03-27 09:14:39 UTC
Faith is believing without evidence.
?
2012-03-27 09:14:03 UTC
Faith is belief in things WITHOUT evidence.
Hal Roach
2012-03-27 09:14:38 UTC
More like "Faith is claiming to see things when there's no evidence".
2012-03-27 09:13:59 UTC
I think faith is admitting to not having evidence
2012-03-27 09:16:51 UTC
Of course not, don't be ridiculous.

"Faith" isn't evidence of anything. It's belief *without* any evidence.



Paul's quote is simply an early argument from ignorance and incredulity. It's a fallacy -- it was then, it is now.



Peace.
2012-03-27 09:20:12 UTC
Faith isn't evidence of anything.
Astaroth
2012-03-27 09:15:41 UTC
No, faith is belief without evidence.
2012-03-27 09:59:22 UTC
"Evidence of things not seen" sounds like a contradiction to me. At least if you understand "seen" in the wider sense of observed.
2012-03-27 09:14:30 UTC
Faith is not evidence for anything.
?
2012-03-27 09:16:55 UTC
Yes. You don't always have to see something to know it's there. Hebrews chapter 11 explains what faith is and you gives plenty of examples of this who had strong faith in Jehovah God. That helps strengthen my faith.
J
2012-03-27 10:06:35 UTC
Then maybe you need to change your definition of faith.



Or don't. . .keep the definition that makes it easier for you dismiss it.



. . .whichever.
2012-03-27 09:14:34 UTC
Only if you completely redefine the word "evidence".
2012-03-27 09:16:35 UTC
Faith is believing what you know ain't so
Reginald
2012-03-27 09:13:57 UTC
Whoever said that has no idea what 'evidence' means.
2012-03-27 09:14:41 UTC
apostles creed. "in all things visible and invisible. its easy to say that everything on this earth was started by god (whatever theory, big bang, cosmic snowball...) but you also have to agree that god continues his work every day in unseen ways. tht takes faith and understanding.
2012-03-27 09:13:33 UTC
No, I do not.
2012-03-27 09:14:17 UTC
So saith the bible, so saith my experience, so saith I



I see with eyes you do not use
?
2012-03-27 09:13:23 UTC
Read my Eyes...


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