Question:
Joseph Smith?
HighFlyDanger
2007-07-29 22:25:13 UTC
I'm LDS, i know (not believe) that he was a true prophet called of God.
My question...
If Joseph Smith did invent the Book of Mormon wouldn't that make him one of the best historians/writers the world has seen? He only had about a third grade education and he depicted the wars, weapons used, and cultures of the ancient people in the Book of Mormon excellently. I don't remeber him ever studying about this in a library since he would have been working on his farm to feed his family. Or that he went on vacation to south america or the middle east to see the cultures so that he can put them in his book.
As well as a great bible scholar? Topics in the Bible are backed up in the Book of Mormon as well as topics found in the Book of Mormon are backed up by the Bible.
How can he know so much if he wasn't visited by heavenly Beings?
True he could have copied the bible and made his own book, but the bible still doesn't say much about the ancient americas, he'd still be a great writer.
Thirteen answers:
2007-07-30 00:00:20 UTC
All I can say is don't cast pearls in front of swine to be trodden upon.



People here will believe what they want to. If you put something precious to you (such as your testimony) out in the open here make sure you can stand to see it made fun of.



I think Joseph Smith Jr is one of the most influential religious leaders born in the USA.
jlcrit
2007-07-30 05:40:27 UTC
Can I ask you a question? Why were these tablets that he found never found by anyone else? And, why could only he read them? And, why do you think Jesus came to America (if you do believe that), what proves that? And I assume that you read the Bible as well, if so, do the words of God that say "Thou shall Not Add to or take away from this book" meaning that anything claiming to have any relation to the Bible was blasphemous? Revelation Chapter 22 Verses 18 and 19...It clearly states that anything not in the bible is not of God. And nothing, NOTHING, is above the Bible. but to give you my opinion, no he would not be a historian, because he didnt do anything to bring about historty from his time...and he is not a great writer, what he wrote was bullspit. he is not a Bible scholar, because from what you tell me, he did nothing for the bible. Why is it soo important to learn about the ancient americas??? Jesus never left the Middle East, that is made pretty clear in the bible. i dont see how that is so hard to understand,...I have read your precious little book, and I found it utterly retarded, I have no clue why you people would think that mankind began and grew from America...but i dont mean to be rude, and it would be really helpful for me if you answered my questions as well. Thanks

Cent'Anni
Dances with Poultry
2007-07-30 23:59:44 UTC
No. No, No, No No and No.



He merely had an incredible imagination, plus probably had the KJV bible memorized, as per his families tradition of reading the damn thing all the time.



He didn't live in a vacuum as you describe, but had access to newspapers, books, and plenty of other printed material, with "Pamphlets" being the IM of the day. He was not formally educated, but certainly not stupid. He was apparently brighter than you.



As for his weapons of war, none of this has been uncovered as artifacts, given Smiths description of their population spread. He was not a bible theologian, but he was exposed to many circuit preachers of the early 19th century.



I have no idea where you get you information, but it is false, misleading, ignorant and probably what you got handed to you in Primary class.



I'm sorry, but you lean towards epitomization of the misnomer "Moron" by your content and explanation. Please begin a program of reading real history.
2007-07-30 17:56:58 UTC
Good point, but Jo Smith was known to be into freemasondry and magic, he also had a talisman with the jupiter symbol on it. He got his GOLDEN PLATES story from a Freemason tale:

12. As predicted after the flood, a great king, named Solomon, came to power and desired to build a sacred house for the in-dwelling of the divine presence.

13. Solomon and his builders, the Masons, while building and excavating for the temple at Mt. Moriah, discovered the cavern and the sacred treasure.

14. After three attempts to obtain the treasure, they were finally successful. Those Masons were very rejoiceful upon receiving these preserved Mysteries.

15. But. three wicked men intervened and committed a horrible crime. They attempted to force one of the Masons, one of the faithful Masons who had discovered the treasure. Hiram Abif; or Hiram, the widow's son, to reveal the hiding (place) and the contents of the hidden treasure.

16. He would not reveal his knowledge and therefore they killed him.

17. While being slain, Hiram. with uplifted hands, cried out, "Oh Lord, My God, is there no help for the widow's son?" This has since become a general Masonic distress call.

18. Then three loyal Masons, seeking revenge, pursued the three evil ones.

19. One of the three faithful Masons overtook one of the arch-villains. He was asleep with his word, or knife, nearby. 20. The Mason slew the villain with his own knife by cutting off his head.

21. In Masonic ceremonies, the words ``strike off his head" were employed.

22. Also in Masonic ceremonies, in revolutionary France, the re-enacting of the killing of this villain. the tyrant's name was King Philippe le Bel (Philip IV or the Fair who destroyed the Knights Templar. M. B. H.)

23. The loyal Mason was rewarded by King Solomon.

24. The recovered treasures then became part of the temple treasury. It consisted of the brass records, the gold plate, the metal ball, the breast plate and the urim and thummim.

Such is the Masonic legend of the Secret Doctrine, or the sacred treasure in the sacred hill, or the treasure of the widow's son.

The parallels of Joseph Smith and the history of Mormonism are so unmistakable, that to explain them only as coincidence would be ridiculous.

Joseph Smith was named Enoch, even by God. He was 25 when he brought forth his sacred record. His sacred record was buried in the hill by a man who had the initial "M". There were "GOLD PLATES" containing the mysteries of God. They were also in Egyptian hieroglyphics or some Egyptian form. There were brass plates, which also contained an account of the creation of the world. There was another record which contained an account of the tower of Babel. The cavity in the hill, and the hill and the cavity Joseph both saw in vision, was covered with a stone lid. The other treasures in the stone box were the breastplate, the urim and thummim, as well as the round metal ball which served as a director and was called the Liahona.

Joseph Smith also claimed to be an Israelite, and he too made several fruitless attempts at getting the treasure when he first saw it. Joseph Smith had three witnesses to the Book of Mormon and the record itself bears witness that an arch-villain named Laban, or Laban, was thwarting the availability and accessibility of the sacred records, had his head cut off by his own sword. This prophet also built temples for the in-dwelling of God's spirit. Now these parallels, dramatic as they seem, still do not represent the strangest part of the story. All of these aspects of the legend seem transformed into the history of Joseph Smith, so much so that even it appears to be a kind of symbolic acting out of Masonic lore.

But there is a point in this drama where the action goes beyond metaphor and the symbol merges into a tragic reality. This has to do, of course, with the death of Hiram Abif in the legend and the martyrdom of Joseph Smith, in June Joseph Smith gave himself up to be imprisoned and on June 27, 1844, a mob stormed the little Carthage jail. Hyrum was killed instantly and John Taylor seriously wounded. Joseph Smith, Master Mason and widow's son, went to the window and with upraised hands, commenced giving the Masonic distress call to fraternal Masons who were present in the mob: "Oh, Lord, My God." He was unable to complete his plea and fell out of the window to his death.

How does a Mormon historian interpret Joseph Smith and the Masonic Enoch legend? The parallels demand an answer. Was Joseph Smith the fruition of Enoch's prophecy? Was this an extreme "grabbing on" by the Prophet? Or did mysterious and divine, even magical, forces attach themselves to him? Can anyone deny that Masonic influence on Joseph Smith and the Church, either before or after his personal Masonic membership? The evidence demands comments.

I have attempted to indicate that with regard to Mormonism and Masonry, there remains an abundance of that which is "new under the sun." I do not believe that the Nauvoo story can adequately be told without an inquiry into Masonry.

There are many questions which still demand the answers. I earnestly hope I have raised some questions. Perhaps I have answered a few. But if we, as Mormon historians, respond to these questions and myriads like them relative to Masonry in an ostrich-like fashion, with our heads buried in the traditional sand, then I submit: there never will be "any help for the widow's son."
friendlyexmo
2007-07-30 15:26:53 UTC
If someone pulled an extremely clever con on you and a bunch of other people, and you find out that the last 30 years of your life you have been decieved, would you feel like giving him credit for how good he was at making everyone look like fools, and wasting your life? I don't think so! If the BOM is true, Joseph Smith is a great prophet. If it isn't, he is the biggest liar, and deserves nothing but hell for what he pulled. He does not deserve credit for his writing skills. Obviously I think he is a big liar.
Al Shaitan
2007-07-30 05:32:59 UTC
It's mostly plaigerized. There are also journal accounts from the smith family about all the fantastic stories joseph smith used to tell them around the dinner table. He was great at making things up. His mother was a writer and most likely influenced joseph, even if he did only have a third grade education. He also had many other people working with him on the plaigerism...er, translation.
2007-07-30 05:29:14 UTC
He coped most of it from the bible.....if you took out the "so it came to pass" you would find it is a very short book.

His friend had been to Mexico looking for gold and came back with the stories of the ancient cities....

I agree with you he was very smart...he just shouldn't of started to think about running for president of the states....that and his attack on that newspaper did him in.(the many wives didn't help either)
2007-07-30 05:30:58 UTC
if no one can convince you any different, than why ask?



if you don't have a truly open mind to this question, then what you are really looking for is an answer that already matches your ideals.



if you truly research the book of mormon, you will find that there is no DNA evidence to back up his theories of the ancient Americas.
2007-07-30 05:35:03 UTC
No. Because none of his writings have ever been substantiated by FACT. Historically, he also doesn't fit the catagory of being a "great" historian, for greatness is backed up with "proof." Just as the hebrews, anyone can sit down and write alot of "facts" grabbed out of the "air." It is called, "IMAGINATION." I am a scholar of religions and cultures and should KNOW my own for you see I am part "Native American.........."
2007-07-30 05:43:26 UTC
Why would you say that this would make him the best writer ever? I've read much better books by Stephen King. Have you actually read the book of mormon? It's miserable to read. None of it makes sense. Was Joseph drunk when he wrote, er, translated it?
2007-07-30 05:33:44 UTC
I have been to the birthplace of the LDS church in Palmyra, NY, and was not suprised to find out that they left a lot out about the life of Joseph Smith. He liked the underage girls quite a bit for instance, and that was why his group was chased out of NY, Ilinois, and finally had to settle beyond U.S. territory.
Anonymous
2007-07-30 05:35:47 UTC
You don't KNOW anything, especially not that Joseph Smith was an actual prophet.



As for the rest of your question.... *drinks*
Stupid Me
2007-07-30 05:38:45 UTC
So was "Rev. "Jim Jones of "Jonestown" fame.


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