Question:
Question about evolution?
2017-09-17 19:09:49 UTC
So at church today we were talking about evolution. Someone asked "If evolution is true then why are there still monkeys" Ive heard this question about 4 billion times so I answered "evolution states that gorillas are a common ancestor, like a cousin. Thats like asking, if white Americans came from Europeans, then why are there still Europeans?"
The leader said "I understand what (insert my name) is saying, but the problem is that monkeys are a different species from us.
Is this true? Did the leader debunk my claim?
Sixteen answers:
?
2017-09-17 21:17:56 UTC
No, not at all. Your leader seems to be under the impression that evolution means a monkey giving birth to a different species. That's not what it is.



Some monkeys had genetic mutations and passed them on... while others stayed the same. Some of those changed monkeys had progeny that had more genetic changes... and so on... and so on. Millions of years of that, and it eventually results in the changed monkeys being so different from the non-changed monkeys, that you have a different species.
?
2017-09-17 20:46:06 UTC
Thats like asking, if white Americans came from Europeans, then why are there still Europeans?"



- The analogy is lost on fundies.



but the problem is that monkeys are a different species from us. Is this true? Did the leader debunk my claim?



- They are a different species, but we did not come from monkeys. Another thing that is lost on fundies.
Samwise
2017-09-17 20:06:15 UTC
The leader's problem is that he doesn't understand what a species IS. And that was the whole difficulty in working out the theory of evolution in the first place.



Evolution, as the idea that a species could change, adapt to new circumstances and become substantially different, was the early part of the concept, and it was proposed by Lamarck. But Lamarckian evolution assumed that species originated independently, and multiple species could not share common ancestry. It was only part of the concept as we now have it.



Darwin (and Wallace, who reached the same conclusions independently) noticed a couple of problems with the whole concept of species. One was that biologists weren't doing very well at defining the line between separate species and variations within a species; that often came down to matters of opinion because no reliable answer could be determined. Another was that this concept of separate origins for species didn't explain why species which were unquestionably different so often shared significant characteristics.



Just about every amphibian, reptile, bird, or mammal shows the same basic set of skeletal bones, no matter how differently they're shaped to produce wildly varying bodies and limbs. Similar circumstances show up in the basic characteristics of groups of plants, insects, etc. And the distributions of these creatures also hint at relationships among them. None of this would have any reason to occur, if species could not be related to other species by descent from common ancestors.



A lot of people get stuck, like your discussion leader, on the Lamarkian notion that "different species" are unrelated. Darwin and Wallace ended redefining the CONCEPT of species. In the process, they explained one of the biggest puzzles in the whole classification system, which biologists had been expanding for a couple centuries: why it's a hierarchical "tree" instead of just random sets of strange creatures with no way to organize them into groups.



Gorillas, by the way, are indeed like "cousins" to us; they're NOT ancestors, but humans and gorillas share common ancestors. (We also have a couple of closer "cousin" species, bonobos and chimpanzees. And they're closer to each other than they are to humans.) Our relationship with monkeys is more remote--the common ancestors are further back, before apes in general became separate from Old World monkeys.



That discussion leader, like most who argue against the theory of evolution, depends utterly on maintaining ignorance of the theory in the first place. That's been the creationist approach for a long time, partly because Darwin, in the last edition of "The Origin of Species" (the only one with that exact title), debunked most of the arguments creationists are still making. They cannot allow any of their followers to understand the theory in the first place, or they'd see (a) that the proofs are solid, and (b) that creationist arguments are founded on ignorance of both theory and proofs.







The Galapagos Archipelago, situated under the equator, lies at the distance of between 500 and 600 miles from the shores of South America. Here almost every product of the land and of the water bears the unmistakable stamp of the American continent. There are twenty-six land-birds; of these, twenty-one, or perhaps twenty-three are ranked as distinct species, and would commonly be assumed to have been here created; yet the close affinity of most of these birds to American species is manifest in every character, in their habits, gestures, and tones of voice. So it is with the other animals, and with a large proportion of the plants [...] There is nothing in the conditions of life, in the geological nature of the islands, in their height or climate, or in the proportions in which the several classes are associated together, which closely resembles the conditions of the South American coast: in fact, there is a considerable dissimilarity in all these respects. On the other hand, there is a considerable degree of resemblance in the volcanic nature of the soil, in the climate, height, and size of the islands, between the Galapagos and Cape Verde Archipelagoes: but what an entire and absolute difference in their inhabitants! The inhabitants of the Cape Verde Islands are related to those of Africa, like those of the Galapagos to America. Facts such as these admit of no sort of explanation on the ordinary view of independent creation; whereas on the view here maintained, it is obvious that the Galapagos Islands would be likely to receive colonists from America, whether by occasional means of transport or (though I do not believe in this doctrine) by formerly continuous land, and the Cape Verde Islands from Africa; such colonists would be liable to modification,—the principle of inheritance still betraying their original birthplace.

-- Charles Darwin, "The Origin of Species"; sixth edition (1872)
Ernest S
2017-09-17 19:39:28 UTC
Why haven't all the other species evolved and why are there still species from which man has supposedly evolved?



Evolution is nonsense and requires a suspension of thought and reason and the acceptance of logical invalidites.





Evolution may be compared to the little boy playing with a ball who breaks the window and when you go out to him he claims that Martians came down and kicked the ball through the window and flew off before you came out.



The little boy will swear blind to this because he doesn't want to face accountability.



So too the Atheists.
Mr. Smartypants
2017-09-17 19:20:56 UTC
When someone is making an argument and the facts are not on his side he can do one of two things. 1. Just use those facts that support his argument and ignore the rest, or 2. Make up his own facts.



Over and over we hear Creationists insisting that evolution says we are descended from monkeys. That's not what evolution says at all. Like you point out, it suggests that we and monkeys have a common ancestor. But see how well you do by pointing this out. Creationists call it a 'lie'.



To Creationists, the argument is not ABOUT facts. It's about belief. The facts that don't support their argument, they believe Satan made those up to fool us. So it's like that old argument: "Which do you believe, The Scriptures or your own lying eyes?" 8^P



The last time a person made that argument: "If man came from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys?" I answered back "If God made Adam from mud, why is there still mud?" She didn't get it.



Yes, OF COURSE monkeys are a different species from us. That fact supports evolution, not creation!
DosCentavos
2017-09-17 19:20:02 UTC
Your church leader is an idiot and misrepresents evolutionary theory by asking a common malformed question. Monkeys and Apes exist as separate species BECAUSE evolution is true, not because it isn't.



First of all Homo Sapiens Sapiens is a subspecies of great ape, NOT monkey. One major difference is that monkeys have tails, apes do not. Apes and monkeys have a common ancestor -- from that common ancestor both diverged.





Next time he questions evolutionary theory tell him to shove his finger up his nose or pop a whitehead. He will expose MRSA or Methicillin resistant Staphylococcus Aureus -- a sub-species of staph aureus that has developed resistance to antibiotics. Without evolution, this particular species of bacteria would have been entirely wiped out by now.
Grillparzer
2017-09-17 19:18:03 UTC
Humans and apes share a common ancestor, one is not derived from another. Generally, when someone says that humans came from apes, they have no interest in learning why their argument is false. RationalWiki explains it better than I can.



https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/How_come_there_are_still_monkeys%3F
🤔 Jay
2017-09-17 19:17:09 UTC
Hey, if people can live forever how come we have funeral homes?

.As solid as "why are there still monkeys"



Actually we are made of star stuff...that evolved into pond scum that evolved into the human animal over several billion years...

That's fact, ask any scientist. Or a high school graduate.



The facts are far more wondrous and awesome than the ancient belief that "God went poof"..
?
2017-09-17 19:14:14 UTC
its true.
2017-09-17 19:11:17 UTC
No. The leader is an idiot.



For Donald's clarification, this is a serious answer.
2017-09-17 23:45:34 UTC
It doesn't matter if monkeys are a different species. Evolution changes species through natural selection all the time. Your leader clearly doesn't know anything about biology. The definition of a species is organisms that can successfully (and naturally) reproduce with each other. Differential reproduction occurs all the time creating new species.
?
2017-09-17 22:50:57 UTC
Evolution happened. the only debate is whether and how religious people incorporate it into their beliefs.
Nous
2017-09-17 19:54:50 UTC
Primates are mammals that include lemurs, monkeys, apes and humans.



The Strepsirrhini, or “wet-nosed” primates, which include lemurs and lorises, branched off around 63 million years ago.



Old World monkeys and apes divided from New World monkeys about 40 million years ago.



Aegyptopithecus zeuxis, which probably resembles the common ancestor of New World monkeys and apes, lived about 29 million years ago.



The apes split from Old World monkeys about 25 million years ago.



Humans and chimpanzees diverged 5-7 million years ago.



Of the macaque's nearly 3 billion DNA base pairs, 93.5 per cent are identical to those in the human genome. This is not unexpected for a species whose lineage diverged from our own about 25 million years ago. The human and chimp genomes, which diverged just 6 million years ago, are about 98 per cent identical.



One puzzling discovery is that several mutations that cause genetic diseases in humans - such as phenylketonuria and Sanfilippo syndrome, which lead to mental retardation - are the normal form in macaques and, presumably, our own ancestors.



So on each split the original got left behind to stay as it was!



The first true hominid has been shown to almost certainly arrived in the Great Rift Valley but as a product of evolving from it's monkey and ape ancestry!!



In many ways trying to deny these facts is worse than the creationinsts fantasies!!



Both show a desire to ignore the truth!!



Pope Francis says the theories of evolution and the Big Bang are real and God is not “a magician with a magic wand” putting an end to the “pseudo theories” of creationism and intelligent design! So the Catholic Church, Church of England and mainstream churches all accept the big bang and evolution!



Lord Carey the former Archbishop of Canterbury put it rather well – “Creationism is the fruit of a fundamentalist approach to scripture, ignoring scholarship and critical learning, and confusing different understandings of truth”!



Christian Fundamentalist is a complete contradiction in terms!



CHRISTIAN – A follower or believer in Jesus.



FUNDAMENTALIST One who believes the Bible is literally true and must be followed exactly.



Therefore they are followers of the bible and not Jesus making them non Christians!



But worse is to follow it also makes them ideologists.



IDEOLOGY An idea that is false or held for the wrong reasons but is believed with such conviction as to be irrefutable.



So Christians have a loving and forgiving god and fundamentalist - well - Just are not Christians!
2017-09-17 19:34:08 UTC
Evolution is IMPOSSIBLE ABSOLUTELY.

And you can't be Christian believing it. Why?

It contradicts Jesus.



Monkeys do not drive cars, put up questions on here.

They are different. Some similarities which just say some.



They certainly aren't humans.

People who know nothing spout it.

They hate Jesus.

Yes, that includes top people.

Top people are corrupt.
2017-09-17 19:27:13 UTC
yeah
jpopelish
2017-09-17 19:20:30 UTC
The previous lines of species that produced, us,

monkeys, gorillas, chimps, etc.

have all gone extinct.

No other species alive

was our immediate ancestor species.



Gorillas, champs and orangutans

have evolved just as much as we have,

since we last had a common ancestor.



--

Regards,



John Popelish


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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