Question:
Jehovah's Witnesses: What does "ego eimi" mean?
Sonny Daye
2009-12-20 08:51:44 UTC
The NWT translates the Greek words "ego eimi" as "I am" every time it appears in the New Testament (eg, John 6:35, 6:41, 8:24, 13:19, 15:5, etc.), except in John 8:58 where it is translated as "I have been".

If the New World Translation is the most accurate word for word translation of the Bible what is the reason for the inconsistency in this translation?

If "ego eimi" was translated in Jn 8:58 the same way it is translated in every other verse in which it appears, how would John 8:58 read and what would this verse say about the nature of Christ?

See Exodus 3:14 in every version of the Bible except the NWT. Why is this phrase, “ego eimi” translated as “I am” in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation (KIT), but “I have been” in the NWT?

Since “I am” is present tense, and “I have been” is past tense, which tense is correct? If the “translators” of the NWT were Greek scholars, shouldn’t they have known which tense “ego eimi” is?
Nine answers:
Bill C
2009-12-20 09:19:43 UTC
It's obvious: If they translated it properly in John 8:58, it would fly right in the face of their doctrine. I've read their "explanation" for it... it doesn't hold a drop of water. Anyone with even a first year education in Greek would see through it.



The reaction of the crowd to the statement Jesus made also shows the NWT translation to be in error. If he had simply stated that he was older than Abraham, they would have judged him insane, not blasphemous. There would have been no attempt to stone him.



Instead, He claimed to BE Jehovah, by using the same words Jehovah used in Exodus. And there was no way they could mistake that... to them, it was blasphemy, and they picked up stones to throw at him.



BTW, this wasn't the only place where Jesus spoke the I AM... but most translations missed the significance of another time, and thus, insert "he" into the translation. In John's account of the arrest of Jesus, He asked them who they were looking for. They said, "Jesus of Nazareth." He said, "I AM." (This is where many translations insert "he," so that Jesus says "I am he." But "he" is not in the Greek.) Note the reaction of the guards when Jesus spoke those words: "They went backward and fell to the ground." Saying "I am he" would certainly not cause that... but speaking the I AM with the same power as when God first spoke it to Moses certainly would... and it did.



Edit for the doctor: That statement is a generalization, and not overly accurate. If it were, it would be impossible to express anything in Greek where two tenses appear in a sentence. NO language is that limited. In addition, because this statement was intended to carry a specific spiritual meaning, the rules of grammar, even if they were that restrictive, would not apply. Even in Exodus, we see "I am," which is technically a sentence, used as a noun: "Tell them I Am sent you." One must not ignore meaning in favor of grammar.



For Bible Chooser: The KJV does use "I was" in Luke 19:22. It's more to do with English grammar here, though, than Greek. The Greek does say "I am," but when relating a narrative in English, it is very common to put the verbs in the past tense to indicate that the story being told has already happened. It's not grammatically accurate, but it is common usage.



Vot: Do you understand the terms you posted? Do you understand Greek verb tenses? Or English tenses, for that matter? That explanation doesn't indicate anything. Even in English, a narrative can have several different tenses. Apparently the NWT translators didn't understand that. Thus the misinformation will continue. (I used four tenses in that paragraph. Can you identify them?)
Τιμοθέῳ
2009-12-21 05:57:57 UTC
Arguing with the Greek New Testament will take us nowhere because the Greek verb tenses can be retranslated with doctrines no matter what religion it is translated for. The Koine Greek language never had any clear translation when it comes to verb tenses whether past, present or future, but however the Sahidic and Bohairic, the earliest available manuscripts that the JWs of the Org so dearly love because of John 1:1c, these earlier manuscripts do have the definite clear verb tenses and nothing can change that!



In the Sahidic of John 8:58 it clearly translates as "...before Abraham became I, I am being."



In the Bohairic of John 8:58 it clearly translates as "...before Abraham became, I am."



The JWs of the Org NEVER found one single authoritative Coptic translator who can support the NWT rendering of John 8:58 "...I have been", and that is because if a Coptic translator wants to do that, they will lose their lifetime reputation of work and achievements!



Of course our modern languages prohibit us from expressing those lines in modern grammar, but that should never change that Biblical expression that Jesus gave to the Jews that initiated the hurling of stones at Him! What sense is there to change that grammar expression? Absolutely None!



So many verses in the Sahidic and Bohairic that clearly defies the NWT translation, and yet in these instances the JWs of the Org will run and hide from these earlier manuscripts just to save their own skins!
2016-05-26 14:24:49 UTC
You say that the exact phrase 'ego eimi' - I am - is translated exactly the same in all 47 times it appears in the NWT. However, this is a misleading argument that fools only those who are not familiar with biblical Greek and the principles of translation. This is because the present tense form of the verb 'eimi' is NOT always translated into the present tense in English but sometimes in the perfect tense - this applies not only to the NWT but to *all* of the most popular English translations! Here are to examples of a Greek phrase that has a form of 'eimi' in the present tense but is rendered in the perfect tense in English translations: John 14:9 - τοσοῦτον χρόνον μεθ' ὑμῶν εἰμι such time with you I am John 15:27 - ἀπ' ἀρχῆς μετ' ἐμοῦ ἐστε from beginning with me you are In both cases, popular translations such as the NIV and NASB follow the translating principles that the NWT did in John 8:58 - John 14:9 - I have been among you such a long time. (NIV) John 15:27 - You have been with me from the beginning. (NIV) Note the use of 'have been' in both verses for a Greek present tense original, just like the NWT in John 8:58.
2009-12-20 09:01:40 UTC
Well, this combination - "ego eimi" - is also found translated "I was" in the King James Version (Luk 19:22). However, I agree this time that "I was" does not seem an appropriate translation - either in the NWT or the KJV.



Jim, http://www.bible-reviews.com



P.S. Though "The Doctor" clearly knows more than I about Greek.
Vöt Änårж
2009-12-20 09:14:03 UTC
Vot will go check right now, but will ask you whether you checked this yourself before you posted this Q:



At John 6:35, 6:41, 8:24, 13:19, 15:5, etc. where the NWT uses "I am"- in what tense is the REST of the sentence?



I'll check back for your answer.

==============

Took me less than 3 minutes.



All those sentences are entirely in the present continuous tense, while John 8:58 is in the present perfect progressive tense.



"I have been" is not past tense- you are thinking about ''I was"



There's a difference.



What were all the other verses that fall under "etc''?
2009-12-22 02:12:52 UTC
Greetings,



As usual, every argument criticizing the NWT demands ignorance from its hearers regarding biblical grammar, definitions and usage. They also require us to be ignorant of the context and resort to logical fallacies. This question commits several exegetical and Logical Fallacies (Appeal to selective evidence; incomplete research).



First, this argument is only effective if someone is completely unlearned in Greek, or grammar in general. Just a little research would show that EGO EIMI is grammatically used in a completely different way in Jn.8:58 from the other examples. In the other verses EIMI is used as a “copula” between the subject and predicate, but in Jn.8:58 EIMI does not function as a copula but it is part of the predicate. Unlike the other examples it also is used with a adverbial in the past tense which changes its import.



This argument requires us to be ignorant of the fact that scores of other Translations render EGO EIMI here exactly as the NWT has and also differently from everywhere else in their versions (I can provide a list of over 40). As soon as people are made aware of this fact, it is easy to see that there must be a grammatical reason and the criticism of the NWT is proved inaccurate and misleading.



There are versions which have translated EGO EIMI “exactly the same way it is translated in other verses” and the result is verbal nonsense on many levels. First, any translation which capitalizes “I Am” as if it were a title is ridiculous. EGO EIMI is not a title in Jn.8:58 (nor is it a title in Ex.3). It is the main clause (subject and verb) and is modified by the adverbial phrase “Before Abraham was born.” It is easy to see how nonsensical these translation are by substituting a name for EGW EIMI: “Before Abraham was born, Fred.”



Rendering EGO EIMI here with the present tense “I am” is also grammatically erroneous. When EIMI is not used as a copula it always describes a state and is the Greek imperfect form, both which denote duration and not a punctiliar event.



"I am (eimi) never has a punctiliar ending".—Edward Goodrick; Hebrew and Greek



Criticizing the NWT for rendering the Greek present tense EGO EIMI into the English perfect tense "I have been" is a common fallacy. Those who claim that "I am" is the more literal translation of EGW EIMI are promoting an ignorance of the Greek present tense. The choice of English tense has nothing to do with which rendering is more literal. "I have been" is just as literal a translation as "I am." In fact, since the Greek imperfect aspect denotes a continuing state the punctiliar rendering "I am" is much less accurate than "I have been" or "I existed."



At Jn 8:58 EIMI is not being used as a linking verb (I am) but stresses existence on the part of the subject. Thus, the translation of EIMI into English must convey this sense which “I am” does not do.



Further, when a Greek present verb occurs with a temporal clause it can throw the starting point into the past. In Jn 8:58 there is a temporal clause referring to past time "PRIN ABRAAM GENSQAI." Notice what Greek Grammars have to say:



E. D. Burton in, "Syntax of the Moods and Tenses in NT Greek:, section 17, "The Present Indicative, accompanied by an adverbial expression denoting duration and referring to past time, is sometimes used in Greek to describe an action which, beginning in past time, is still in progress at the time of speaking. English idiom REQUIRES the use of the perfect in such cases."



Sanders and Masten in "Harper's New Testament Commentaries, p. 158: "To describe a state continuing up to the present, Greek uses the present tense where English uses the Perfect; cf. Jn 8:58."



A. T. Robertson in, "A Grammar of New Testament Greek in the Light of Historical Research:, p. 879, "The Progressive Present Often it has to be translated into English by a sort of "progressive perfect" ('have been')."



The Greek Grammars of Winer and J. H. Moulton also include John 8:58 where such a perfect is warranted as is done in the NWT:



"The present which indicates the continuance of an action during the past and up to the moment is virtually the same as Perfective, the only difference being that the action is conceived as still in progress...it is frequent in N.T.: Lk. 2:48; 13:7; 15:29, Jn.5:6, 8:58".—Moulton; A Grammar of the N.T.



Therefore, many translators recognized that translating EGW EIMI with a perfect form (I have been) is in full accord with correct Greek grammar. In fact, as the above quotes show, Greek syntax demands that it be translated with a form of the perfect and not a present tense like “I am.”





The translation “I am” at Jn.8:58 is simply an unqualified case of theological bias–an illegitimate attempt to link Christ’s words with the “divine title” at Ex.3:14. Yet, in order to make this connection Trinitarians must require others to be ignorant of the Hebrew text and Greek Septuagint and rely upon mistranslations.



First, the translation "I Am that I Am" is a mistranslation of the Greek "EGO EIMI hO ON" which is in turn a mistranslation of the Hebrew "EHYEH ASHER EHYEH." A more accurate translation of the Hebrew would be "I will be what I will be" such as Rotherham's & the footnotes of the NRSV and NIV-1984.



The Hebrew word "EHYEH" (EGO EIMI, LXX) appears in Exodus over a dozen times, yet 3:14 is the only place it is rendered "I Am." Why are many translations so inconsistent in their rendering of this word?!! Where God uses these words at Ex. 3:12 it is translated "I will be" (KJV, NIV, NWT, etc.).



"The Hebrew word ehyeh (I Am, KJV) has generally been rendered "I will be". Ex. 3:12, Gen.26:3; 31:3".—Girdlestone, Synonyms of the OT (ftnt pg. 37).



Brenton's LXX renders ego eimi as "have I been" and "I have been" (Gen. 31:38,41, Judg.16:17, cf. Ex. 4:10).



Thus the Hebrew Word does not consistently have the rendering of "I Am", nor does it have the import of a "name".



On top of being misled by these mistranslations most people do not see that in the very next verse (Ex.3:15) God states that Jehovah/Yehowah is actually the name by which he will be known eternally, not "I Am."





This is why the Trinitarian argument linking John 8:58 with Ex.3 is invalid. It is based on a falsehood; It is based on the incorrect translation of the Septuagint, not the inspired Hebrew words. Further, the noun identifying God in the Septuagint was "hO ON" not "EGO EIMI/I am" which is a verb. Jesus did not use hO ON, which is something even Trinitarian scholars recognize. So Jesus only used a common verb, not some "name of God." "EGO EIMI" is never used as a title for Jehovah in Scripture.



Let me illustrate: If I said "I am Ron" which word identifies me? The noun "Ron" of course. Now if someone else uses the words "I am," does this mean they are identifying themselves as me? Of course not, totally illogical! What Jesus used was simply a very common verb, one that everyone used. For instance at Jn.9:9 when the healed man was asked who he was he said: "EGO EIMI". Was he indicating that he was God? And at 1Chron 21:17 David said (in the LXX) "EGO EIMI," or "I am." (Was David claiming to be God as well?)





Scholar A. B. Davidson said: "The translation ‘I am' is doubly false: the tense is wrong, being present; and the idea is wrong because ‘am' is used in the sense of essential existence. All those interpretations which proceed upon the supposition that [I am] is a name of God...must be set aside...the nature of the [Hebrew] verb and the tense pre- emptorily forbid them."– The Theology of the OT, in "The International Theological Library" p. 55.



The Jews were asking Jesus how long he had been around, not who he was. Grammatically, it must be translated in a way that indicates existence that started in the past and continues to the present. "I am" indicates only the present, so it is more correctly translated as "I have been." Evidence for this can be found at Jn. 14:9 where most translators render EIMI as "I have been" or "have I been?" This done at Jn 14:9 but not at 8:58 because Trinitarian translators are desperately trying to find support for their belief and disregarding Greek (and English) grammar.



Many translations give the correct English understanding and so read "I tell you I existed before Abraham was born." See Goodspeed's Translation, The Living Bible, NASB's marginal note, Beck's, Williams, and Moffatt's.



You will notice when the Greek construction is correctly rendered there is no indication of an identification of Jesus with Jehovah. Jesus simply said he existed from "before Abraham," referring to his pre-human existence.



Yours,



BAR-ANERGES
Open yo heart, Jesus is knockin
2009-12-20 08:58:34 UTC
You ain't going to convince JW about all these valid points. They are told, their organization is the only one with the truth but they shouldn't read anything else because apparently this "truth" cannot stand scrutiny, go figure!
The Doctor
2009-12-20 08:57:56 UTC
Sigh,



"ego eimi" means "I am". But in Greek, when something is in past tense, the remainder of the statement remains in that tense (if not, it would be relative to that - so "I was" would be before that). So "ego eimi" in this particular statement (Jesus is saying "Before Abraham was, I am/was". "I am" doesn't even make sense to me in English, in this way, even though the KJV uses "I am".
Abernathy the Dull
2009-12-20 10:13:26 UTC
"Ego eimi" is just one form of the Greek verb for "to be." You can't isolate a single form like you have and form an argument. For your argument to be valid, then ALL forms of the Greek verb for "to be" in the present tense can only be translated into English as the present tense. However, the Greek present tense doesn't work the same as the English present tense.



"Ego eimi" literally means "I am," but so does just "eimi." We find Jesus using "eimi" in John 14:9 where it is translated into all English translations like the NIV translates it: "I have been among you such a long time." Note that it says "I have been" - just like the NWT at John 8:58 - even though "eimi" is in the present tense, and literally means "I am."



Likewise, at John 15:27, we have the 2nd person plural form of "eimi" - "este." "Este" literally means "you are" in Greek. But all English translations have it like the NIV has it: "You have been with me from the beginning." The literal Greek "you are" is translated into English as "you have been," a 2nd person plural form of the NWT's John 8:58 rendering, "I have been."



What do John 8:58, John 14:9, and John 15:27 have in common? They all have a Greek present tense form of the verb "to be," and they all have an indicator of past time in the sentence. There is a valid function of the Greek present tense recognized by Greek scholars called "Present Tense Extension From the Past." This is translated into English with the English perfect tense: "I/you have been." The Greek Present Tense Extension From the Past has a Greek verb in the present tense with an indicator of past time in the phrase, as these three verses have.



So, to rephrase your question correctly: Does the NWT render all occurrences of the Greek present tense verb "to be" in the English present tense EXCEPT in John 8:58? No. And NEITHER DOES ANY OTHER ENGLISH TRANSLATION.



Also, some Trinitarian translators saw the Greek Present Tense Extension from Past in John 8:58. The NWT is in good company with some giants of NT Greek scholarship such as Goodspeed and Moffatt.



Also of note is the Sahidic Coptic's rendering of John 8:58, which was translated around the year 200 CE - the earliest known translation still in existence. The Coptic of John 8:58 does not match the Coptic of Exodus 3:14 - "anok TSoop" versus "anok pe petSoop," respectively ("I am existing" versus "I am the Being"). Also, the Coptic of John 8:58, "anok TSoop," does not match the other "I am's" of John chapter 8, or John 9:9 for that matter. The other "I am's" in Coptic John chapters 8 and 9 are "anok pe," not "anok TSoop." In the Coptic John 8:58, "anok TSoop" means "I am existing," and not "I am." Obviously, the Sahidic translators did not view Jesus in John 8:58 as referring to Exodus 3:14.



[edit]



Also, the popular argument that Jesus MUST have been claiming to be God in John 8:58 because the Jews tried to stone him afterward is ridiculous. Why? Because the Jews were ALREADY going to kill Jesus! Jesus said just a few verses earlier: "You are seeking to kill me." John 8:37.



Does it take Jesus claiming to be God to prompt the Jews to kill him? No. At Luke 4:23-29, the Jews tried to kill Jesus, not because he claimed to be God, but only because he brought out their hypocrisy and made them angry.



Again, at Mark 14:61-64, Jesus is accused of blasphemy and condemned to death for claiming to be the Messiah and the Son of God.



Likewise, at John 8:59, the Jews tried to stone Jesus because they were already seeking to kill him, and he had just claimed to be superior to Abraham, their great ancestor. Also, just like account in Luke, Jesus had brought out their hypocrisy and made them angry, as even a casual reading of John chapter 8 brings out.



[edit again]



Also, saying "I am" in Greek should be "I am" in English is too simplistic and shows a lack of understanding of Koine Greek grammar. It is something that those with no understanding of Greek - or even a 1st year Koine Greek grammar student - would do.



Languages are not codes. No two languages will correspond exactly with each other. The Greek present tense should not always be translated in the English present tense. There are, in fact, over thirty uses of the Greek present tense. The meaning of the Greek present tense sometimes occurs in the present time. Sometimes it is timeless (aoristic). Sometimes it occurs in the past (extension from past, historical present). Sometimes it occurs in the future (futuristic.)


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