Question:
How can believers in God making the earth only 6000 years ago refute Carbon Dating?
anonymous
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
How can believers in God making the earth only 6000 years ago refute Carbon Dating?
36 answers:
Mac
2006-09-28 03:04:45 UTC
Carbon dating is not an exact science - only an interpretation. the same artifacts were sent to 5 different labs around the world for dating - the results did not sgree and were so wide ranging!



How much carbon is in the atmosphere today? How much was there 1 million years ago? If you say the same then prove it, but you can't as you have no evidence.



Rock taken from the new island that formed in the 1960's near Iceland may be taken and carbon dated. How many millions of years old will it be when it was formed in the 1960's?



Don't believe everything that science makes a claim about. Check things for yourself.
Damian
2006-09-27 05:52:56 UTC
Carbon dating is inconclusive and scientists cannot even agree on the different types because they always give a different result. The amount of cosmic rays penetrating the earth’s atmosphere affects the amount of 14C produced and therefore dating the system. The amount of cosmic rays reaching the earth varies with the sun’s activity, and with the earth's passage through magnetic clouds as the solar system travels around the Milky Way galaxy.



The strength of the earth’s magnetic field affects the amount of cosmic rays entering the atmosphere. A stronger magnetic field deflects more cosmic rays away from the earth. Overall, the energy of the earth’s magnetic field has been decreasing,5 so more 14C is being produced now than in the past. This will make old things look older than they really are.



Also, the Genesis flood would have greatly upset the carbon balance. The flood buried a huge amount of carbon, which became coal, oil, etc., lowering the total 12C in the biosphere (including the atmosphere—plants regrowing after the flood absorb CO2, which is not replaced by the decay of the buried vegetation). Total 14C is also proportionately lowered at this time, but whereas no terrestrial process generates any more 12C, 14C is continually being produced, and at a rate which does not depend on carbon levels (it comes from nitrogen). Therefore, the 14C/12C ratio in plants/animals/the atmosphere before the flood had to be lower than what it is now.
Robert K
2006-09-27 05:49:02 UTC
Many people are under the false impression that carbon dating proves that dinosaurs and other extinct animals lived millions of years ago. What many do not realize is that carbon dating is not used to date dinosaurs.

The reason? Carbon dating is only accurate back a few thousand years. So if scientists believe that a creature lived millions of years ago, then they would need to date it another way.

But there is the problem. They assume dinosaurs lived millions of years ago (instead of thousands of years ago like the bible says). They ignore evidence that does not fit their preconceived notion.

What would happen if a dinosaur bone were carbon dated? - At Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Scientists dated dinosaur bones using the Carbon dating method. The age they came back with was only a few thousand years old.

This date did not fit the preconceived notion that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. So what did they do? They threw the results out. And kept their theory that dinosaurs lived "millions of years ago" instead.



This is common practice.



They then use potassium argon, or other methods, and date the fossils again.



They do this many times, using a different dating method each time. The results can be as much as 150 million years different from each other! - how’s that for an "exact" science?



They then pick the date they like best, based upon their preconceived notion of how old their theory says the fossil should be (based upon the Geologic column).



So they start with the assumption that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, then manipulate the results until they agree with their conclusion.



Their assumptions dictate their conclusions.



So why is it that if the date doesn't fit the theory, they change the facts?



Unbiased science changes the theory to support the facts. They should not change the facts to fit the theory.
ManoGod
2006-09-29 16:58:37 UTC
Unfortunately you are wrong on one point. That of the 'without a doubt' bit. You see, carbon dating is known to be affected by certain things which can make it unreliable. Carbon dating of rocks fresh from a volcanoe will date them as being millions of years old. Ohters that may have been around for years and years can show up as being days old.



Carbon dating only actually works effectivle under certain controlled conditions. So dating the earth by carbon dating is not an exact science. It relys on the radioctive half life of certain isotopes that are not always as reliable as they seem.



But the real problem here is not science or people ignoring facts, but it is opinion. Yours and theirs. You see, if you were truly of the scientific mind, you would not be trying to persuade others of your opinion by 'using' science in this way. Especially as you haven't actually studied your subject.



The point being that it is opinions that are constantly being argued here. Yours and theirs.



You provoke them, they provoke you. You use science which you have no full knowledge of to 'prove' facts you have no other proof for, they use scriptures they do not fully understand to 'prove' points they have no understanding of.



Opinions, opinions. Truth needs no defense. If you are right and they are wrong, then shut up about it and be content in your rightness.



If they are right and you wrong then shut up and listen.



Either way shut up and stop promoting useless arguments when you have no knowledge of what you are talking about.
dunc
2006-09-27 05:50:30 UTC
Errors in the Radiocarbon Clock



The radiocarbon clock looked very simple and straightforward when it was first demonstrated, but it is now known to be prone to many kinds of error. After some 20 years’ use of the method, a conference on radiocarbon chronology and other related methods of dating was held in Uppsala, Sweden, in 1969. The discussions there between chemists who practice the method and archaeologists and geologists who use the results brought to light a dozen flaws that might invalidate the dates. In the 17 years since then, little has been accomplished to remedy these shortcomings.



One nagging problem has always been to ensure that the sample tested has not been contaminated, either with modern (live) carbon or with ancient (dead) carbon. A bit of wood, for example, from the heart of an old tree might contain live sap. Or if that has been extracted with an organic solvent (made from dead petroleum), a trace of the solvent might be left in the portion analyzed. Old buried charcoal might be penetrated by rootlets from living plants. Or it might be contaminated with much older bitumen, difficult to remove. Live shellfish have been found with carbonate from minerals long buried or from seawater upwelling from the deep ocean where it had been for thousands of years. Such things can make a specimen appear either older or younger than it really is.



The most serious fault in radiocarbon-dating theory is in the assumption that the level of carbon 14 in the atmosphere has always been the same as it is now. That level depends, in the first instance, on the rate at which it is produced by cosmic rays. Cosmic rays vary greatly in intensity at times, being largely affected by changes in the earth’s magnetic field. Magnetic storms on the sun sometimes increase the cosmic rays a thousandfold for a few hours. The earth’s magnetic field has been both stronger and weaker in past millenniums. And since the explosion of nuclear bombs, the worldwide level of carbon 14 has increased substantially.



On the other hand, the proportion is affected by the quantity of stable carbon in the air. Great volcanic eruptions add measurably to the stable carbon-dioxide reservoir, thus diluting the radiocarbon. In the past century, man’s burning of fossil fuels, especially coal and oil, at an unprecedented rate has permanently increased the quantity of atmospheric carbon dioxide.
Natasha T
2006-09-27 06:29:55 UTC
Hi,

This is not a problem of who believes in GOD and who does not! I myself believe in GOD but don't believe all the crap the chatolic church tries to feed us! The church has always been like that from the older times. They judge everything and everyone and they don't take a look at themselves before! Do you know for instance that the church during the inquisition killed more people than hitler did during the holocaust. DO you know that if the vatican sold half of its belongings hunger in the world would be a thing of the past! Thing is that the church is just like a government. They want power and they try to feed us this crap so we are afraid to go against it! In my opinion if Jesus was born and lived a poor life that is the thing that priests must do and not being served by ppl like the pope does!
anonymous
2006-09-27 13:31:43 UTC
Yes the Earth is 6000 years old. There is no disputing that.

But there is such evidence to suggest carbon dating is complete rubbish.

Firstly, any activity, such as a volcanic eruption, brings with it heavily carbon-laden material. If carbon dated this carbon rivh material can muck up any results. This happened in the Pacific. Creation scientists took some atheist scientists along with some volcanologists. They took readings from a flow they knew to be only 50 or so years old. The results said the rock was 12000 yrs old. True science???

Similarly, any radioactive material present in th ground, and also industrial waste, can also cause anomalous results in carbon dating. Different carbon levels exist in different things, even two examples of the same thing, such as soil or rock.

As for fossils, they do fit in with the Biblical perspective. the book of Job describes a behemoth creature with a tail like a cedar tree that eats grass like an ox. In fact, it is possible Noah took young dinosaurs into the Ark with him, and they cleared the land of grass for humans to live in.

Several mediaeval texts also mention dragons- the word dinosaur is a recent word, and so the animals referred to could easily be dinosaurs. There are also new species of animal being found each week, so it is possible a dinosaur could be living in some undiscovered part of the forests and jungles of the world.

We as followers of the Bible do not humiliate ourselves in any way, we merely abide by the wonder of literature that is the Bible, Gods own word. It states clearly that those who do not believe in His word and His promise of salvation will perish in the Judgement. The Lord does not want us to die, but instead loves us and wants us to return to Him and Heaven. That is not difficult to understand is it?

i am more than willing to explain and debate further if anyone wishes to email me with questions. I can't force you to believe me, but just hear me out!
Nosheen Elfqueen
2006-09-27 08:38:25 UTC
I believe in Allah (God) but I don't believe that the earth is only 6000 years old:



Creation of the Universe in Six Days

As per the Bible, in the first book of Genesis in Chapter One, the universe was created in six days and each day is defined as a twenty-four hours period. Even though the Qur’an mentions that the universe was created in six ‘Ayyaams’, ‘Ayyaam’ is the plural of years; this word has two meanings: firstly, it means a standard twenty-four hours period i.e. a day, and secondly, it also means stage, period or epoch which is a very long period of time.



When the Qur’an mentions that the universe was created in six ‘Ayyaams’, it refers to the creation of the heavens and the earth in six long periods or epochs; scientists have no objection to this statement. The creation of the universe has taken billions of years, which proves false or contradicts the concept of the Bible which states that the creation of the Universe took six days of twenty-four hour durations each.



As per the genealogy of Jesus Christ given in the Bible, from Jesus through Abraham (pbuh) to the first man on earth i.e. Adam (pbuh), Adam appeared on the earth approximately 5800 years ago:





1948 years between Adam (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh)

Approximately 1800 years between Abraham (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh)

2000 years from Jesus (pbuh) till today

These figures are further confused by the fact that the Jewish calendar is currently on or about 5800 years old.



There is sufficient evidence from archaeological and anthropological sources to suggest that the first human being on earth was present tens of thousands of years ago and not merely 5,800 years ago as is suggested by the Bible.

The Qur’an too speaks about Adam (pbuh) as the first man on earth but it does not suggest any date or period of his life on earth, unlike the Bible - what the Bible says in this regard is totally incompatible with science.
KurtNIN
2006-09-27 06:09:01 UTC
Well, my own personal belief is that god created the earth, and the universe aged (ie there's a story behind it, but it didn't happen, get it?) So the earth could be 6000 years old, but it was created with a history, like dinosaurs.

PS I also believe in the theory of evolution.
hollymichal
2006-09-27 08:29:25 UTC
The planet’s coming into existence is recounted in the Bible with the simple statement: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Ge 1:1) Just how long ago the starry heavens and the earth were created is not stated in the Bible. The inspired Record tells of six creative periods called “days,” and of a seventh period or “seventh day” in which time God desisted from earthly creative works and proceeded to rest. These creative periods could have been thousands of years each. For instance, more than 4,000 years after the seventh day, or God’s rest day commenced, the Apostle Paul indicated that it was still in progress. Therefore, there is no basis for Bible scholars to take issue with scientific calculations of the age of the planet. Scientists estimate the age of some rocks as being three and a half billion years, and the earth itself as being about four to four and a half billion or more years. There is no reson to doubt the accuracy of these statements. However as to the creation of the human race, there are no actual records of ancient man, his writing, agriculture, and other pursuits, extending into the past before 4026 B.C.E., the date of Adam’s creation. Therefore man has been around for only 6,000ish years!
?
2006-09-27 05:49:47 UTC
The age of the earth began long before the fall of Adam and Eve. It was then under the time of God where one day to Him was as a thousand years on earth.



We do not know how long Adam and Eve had lived in innocent bliss and contentment before the temptation by Lucifer, nor do we know how much time lapsed before their expulsion.



Time began when Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden. All things on earth changed and even the earth went through an upheaval as time began for her.
betterdeadthansorry
2006-09-27 05:56:03 UTC
There is considerable evidence to refute that claim... but do remember that the 4.5 billion years is an estimate... not the exact number but fairly close.



I remember I read some site that said something about atomic decay rates slowing can prove the creationist bet... the "evidence" they present is rather flimsy, but creationists think such evidence is enough. Most of them honestly dont even bother manipulating science, they'll just say the Bible is literally true... as usual.
albert_rossie
2006-09-27 07:33:07 UTC
Carbon dating, so called fossils of dinosaur and other items were placed there by Satan to appeal to the weak willed and to deter man from the true love of God by placing doubt in their minds. It is man's mind that creates a fractured picture of the world based on our limited perception but only through God can one find what is really truth. It did not stop at the Colloseum Christians are still being killed for their beliefs: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52050
Parsu
2006-09-27 06:49:30 UTC
According to Vedic Literatures the earth is very very old.

This concept of earth being created just 6000 years before is not supported.

In Bhagavad Gita(4.1 purport), God mentions that Bhagavad Gita was spoken many many years before but it was lost and hence he is re-speaking it (re-spoken around 3500 BC).

Earlier Some 2,005,000 years ago, Manu spoke the Bhagavad-gita to his disciple and son King Iksvaku, the king of this planet earth. But creation of planet earth is many times older than that
RB
2006-09-27 05:47:00 UTC
I used to believe in the literal 6 day creation, but that didn't fit science. I believe in science and the Bible and support an "old earth" as stated in previous answers.
anonymous
2006-09-27 05:48:20 UTC
So....good question. Name me one thing that you can prove beyond any doubt that carbon dating is an exact science? And just how will you prove that? To think that we, (humans), actually have the power to see into the past is absurd. Think about this, in 1491 the earth was flat, beyond any doubt. Except for a few believers that it was round. We can't even agree on history from 10 years old ago yet think that we can look back billions of years

and know the truth. Absurd.
Paul H
2006-09-27 05:48:53 UTC
Don't confuse them with the facts, they've already made up their minds --- THIS is the mindset you are dealing with. You aren't going to change their minds - only they can do that. They will quote false results and studies that have been refuted and scientists that say one thing (and don't in real life) and all kinds of things to "justify" their beliefs. Best to just ignore them and move on, because you can lead a someone to knowledge but you cannot make them think.
Fluffy
2006-09-27 05:48:36 UTC
They will give the standard answer 'god works in mysterious ways!' In other words 'I agree but it goes against all my beliefs so I can't agree with your statement'.

That's faith for you!

And rin eply to those who say carbon dating isn't an exact science - that is true but I can certainly prove that things are a heck of a lot older than 6000 years!!
Shossi
2006-09-27 05:51:48 UTC
Why do Christians believe that the 7 days of creation mentioned in the Bible were like our 7 days? Dumb. G-d's 7 days could easily have been millions of years.



We only have 6000 years of recorded history-----who knows how many more.
redeye.treefrog
2006-09-27 05:51:59 UTC
How about this?

God created everything in 6 days...but...in the Bible it states something like a thousand years to us is like a second to God. So...why can't it be both.

God created everything in 6 days...HIS TIME...which should equal out to about the actual proven age of the earth.



Has NO ONE ever even considered that?
anonymous
2006-09-27 06:19:45 UTC
there is no need for them to refute carbon dating. by being able to refer everything to an omnipotent authority all arguments against god/the bible/faith positions generally are easily nullified. "carbon dating says the earth is billions of years old? well, god made it look that way."
dust
2006-09-27 07:13:27 UTC
Because they work on the principal of cowardice - if something threatens them they attempt to rubbish it -usually with the argument - we can find a bloke who disagrees therefore it is discredited.



Despite he/she may be one in 1000 that works for them - good luck to them I say - it saves a lot of wear and tear on the old brain cellls.



Just wait natural selection will do for them eventually....
gramps
2006-09-27 07:34:02 UTC
hay, im a scientist, i would say the evidence has put it beyond doubt. and because they are pathetic little children who have been brainwashed or who just enjoy humilation. Plus its hard to let go of a doctrin when it has been forced onto them by parents who have not given them any choice in religion
good tree
2006-09-27 06:23:38 UTC
http://www.case-creation.org.uk/acfc.html



I wonder if you can handle this?



http://www.case-creation.org.uk/astro1.html



http://www.case-creation.org.uk/dating1.html



http://www.case-creation.org.uk/dating2.html



http://www.case-creation.org.uk/dating3.html



Scientists cannot in fact prove anything of the sort, carbon dating is seriously flawed, and it's not those of us who have seriously looked at both theories intelligently who are ignorant here.

For further reading, try .'in six days: why 50 scientists choose to believe in creation.' edited by Jonh F. Ashton PhD
?
2006-09-27 05:53:19 UTC
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.



- The Boxer, by Simon & Garfunkel
anonymous
2006-09-27 05:47:29 UTC
hear hear!

Well sain that man!

Carbons should be able to date whoever they like, regardless of race creeed or colour, and certainly without any interference from the church
Casey M
2006-09-27 05:51:09 UTC
again give me absolute proof. They can only guess, or ASSume how old something is. Why don't you get with the program. The universe is finite, and had to be created.
anonymous
2006-09-27 05:49:20 UTC
Unless they were actually there or have a friend that was, they can't prove t beyond reasonable doubt either.
anonymous
2006-09-27 05:47:35 UTC
I do not believe it is merely 6,000 years old. But I also do not believe that it is billions of years old either.



You can make something seem older scientifically, through the process of science. And who created carbon dating.......MAN. Man is not perfect so it might be considered "blatent ignorance" to assume that anything we creat, i.e. carbon dating, is perfect.
Thinx
2006-09-27 05:48:35 UTC
I always wonder if they would still refute carbon dating if the bones of jesus would have been found.
Shinkirou Hasukage
2006-09-27 05:50:52 UTC
I agree, they cling to an outdated theory...



“To know that you do not know is the best. To pretend to know when you do not know is disease”

- Lao Tzu -



“Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance”

- Confucius -



“When we're deluded there's a world to escape. When we're aware, there's nothing to escape”

- Bodhidharma -
Goddess of Grammar
2006-09-27 05:46:11 UTC
Beyond any doubt? LOL. I highly doubt any actual scientist would say that.
anonymous
2006-09-27 05:46:14 UTC
1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
anonymous
2006-09-27 05:47:13 UTC
Scientists are crazy and disgusting, they're wrong. The universe is 6000 years old whether you believe it or not.
anonymous
2006-09-27 05:45:46 UTC
Are you kidding??!! They haven't even grown out of fairy tales yet!
Hyzakyt
2006-09-29 19:34:42 UTC
What about carbon dating?



by Don Batten (editor), Ken Ham, Jonathan Sarfati, and Carl Wieland



First published in The Revised and Expanded Answers Book

Chapter 4



How does the carbon ‘clock’ work? Is it reliable? What does carbon dating really show? What about other radiometric dating methods? Is there evidence that the earth is young?



People who ask about carbon-14 (14C) dating usually want to know about the radiometric1 dating methods that are claimed to give millions and billions of years—carbon dating can only give thousands of years. People wonder how millions of years could be squeezed into the biblical account of history.



Clearly, such huge time periods cannot be fitted into the Bible without compromising what the Bible says about the goodness of God and the origin of sin, death and suffering—the reason Jesus came into the world.



Christians, by definition, take the statements of Jesus Christ seriously. He said, ‘But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female’ (Mark 10:6). This only makes sense with a time-line beginning with the creation week thousands of years ago. It makes no sense at all if man appeared at the end of billions of years.



We will deal with carbon dating first and then with the other dating methods.

How the carbon clock works



Carbon has unique properties that are essential for life on earth. Familiar to us as the black substance in charred wood, as diamonds, and the graphite in ‘lead’ pencils, carbon comes in several forms, or isotopes. One rare form has atoms that are 14 times as heavy as hydrogen atoms: carbon-14, or 14C, or radiocarbon.



Carbon-14 is made when cosmic rays knock neutrons out of atomic nuclei in the upper atmosphere. These displaced neutrons, now moving fast, hit ordinary nitrogen (14N) at lower altitudes, converting it into 14C. Unlike common carbon (12C), 14C is unstable and slowly decays, changing it back to nitrogen and releasing energy. This instability makes it radioactive.



Ordinary carbon (12C) is found in the carbon dioxide (CO2) in the air, which is taken up by plants, which in turn are eaten by animals. So a bone, or a leaf or a tree, or even a piece of wooden furniture, contains carbon. When the 14C has been formed, like ordinary carbon (12C), it combines with oxygen to give carbon dioxide (14CO2), and so it also gets cycled through the cells of plants and animals.



We can take a sample of air, count how many 12C atoms there are for every 14C atom, and calculate the 14C/12C ratio. Because 14C is so well mixed up with 12C, we expect to find that this ratio is the same if we sample a leaf from a tree, or a part of your body.



In living things, although 14C atoms are constantly changing back to 14N, they are still exchanging carbon with their surroundings, so the mixture remains about the same as in the atmosphere. However, as soon as a plant or animal dies, the 14C atoms which decay are no longer replaced, so the amount of 14C in that once-living thing decreases as time goes on. In other words, the 14C/12C ratio gets smaller. So, we have a ‘clock’ which starts ticking the moment something dies.



Obviously, this works only for things which were once living. It cannot be used to date volcanic rocks, for example.



The rate of decay of 14C is such that half of an amount will convert back to 14N in 5,730 years (plus or minus 40 years). This is the ‘half-life.’ So, in two half-lives, or 11,460 years, only one-quarter will be left. Thus, if the amount of 14C relative to 12C in a sample is one-quarter of that in living organisms at present, then it has a theoretical age of 11,460 years. Anything over about 50,000 years old, should theoretically have no detectable 14C left. That is why radiocarbon dating cannot give millions of years. In fact, if a sample contains 14C, it is good evidence that it is not millions of years old.



However, things are not quite so simple. First, plants discriminate against carbon dioxide containing 14C. That is, they take up less than would be expected and so they test older than they really are. Furthermore, different types of plants discriminate differently. This also has to be corrected for.2



Second, the ratio of 14C/12C in the atmosphere has not been constant—for example, it was higher before the industrial era when the massive burning of fossil fuels released a lot of carbon dioxide that was depleted in 14C. This would make things which died at that time appear older in terms of carbon dating. Then there was a rise in 14CO2 with the advent of atmospheric testing of atomic bombs in the 1950s.3 This would make things carbon-dated from that time appear younger than their true age.



Measurement of 14C in historically dated objects (e.g., seeds in the graves of historically dated tombs) enables the level of 14C in the atmosphere at that time to be estimated, and so partial calibration of the ‘clock’ is possible. Accordingly, carbon dating carefully applied to items from historical times can be useful. However, even with such historical calibration, archaeologists do not regard 14C dates as absolute because of frequent anomalies. They rely more on dating methods that link into historical records.



Outside the range of recorded history, calibration of the 14C clock is not possible.4

Other factors affecting carbon dating



The amount of cosmic rays penetrating the earth’s atmosphere affects the amount of 14C produced and therefore dating the system. The amount of cosmic rays reaching the earth varies with the sun’s activity, and with the earth's passage through magnetic clouds as the solar system travels around the Milky Way galaxy.



The strength of the earth’s magnetic field affects the amount of cosmic rays entering the atmosphere. A stronger magnetic field deflects more cosmic rays away from the earth. Overall, the energy of the earth’s magnetic field has been decreasing,5 so more 14C is being produced now than in the past. This will make old things look older than they really are.



Also, the Genesis flood would have greatly upset the carbon balance. The flood buried a huge amount of carbon, which became coal, oil, etc., lowering the total 12C in the biosphere (including the atmosphere—plants regrowing after the flood absorb CO2, which is not replaced by the decay of the buried vegetation). Total 14C is also proportionately lowered at this time, but whereas no terrestrial process generates any more 12C, 14C is continually being produced, and at a rate which does not depend on carbon levels (it comes from nitrogen). Therefore, the 14C/12C ratio in plants/animals/the atmosphere before the flood had to be lower than what it is now.



Unless this effect (which is additional to the magnetic field issue just discussed) were corrected for, carbon dating of fossils formed in the flood would give ages much older than the true ages.



Creationist researchers have suggested that dates of 35,000 - 45,000 years should be re-calibrated to the biblical date of the flood.6 Such a re-calibration makes sense of anomalous data from carbon dating—for example, very discordant ‘dates’ for different parts of a frozen musk ox carcass from Alaska and an inordinately slow rate of accumulation of ground sloth dung pellets in the older layers of a cave where the layers were carbon dated.7



Also, volcanoes emit much CO2 depleted in 14C. Since the flood was accompanied by much volcanism, fossils formed in the early post-flood period would give radiocarbon ages older than they really are.



In summary, the carbon-14 method, when corrected for the effects of the flood, can give useful results, but needs to be applied carefully. It does not give dates of millions of years and when corrected properly fits well with the biblical flood.

Other radiometric dating methods



There are various other radiometric dating methods used today to give ages of millions or billions of years for rocks. These techniques, unlike carbon dating, mostly use the relative concentrations of parent and daughter products in radioactive decay chains. For example, potassium-40 decays to argon-40; uranium-238 decays to lead-206 via other elements like radium; uranium-235 decays to lead-207; rubidium-87 decays to strontium-87; etc. These techniques are applied to igneous rocks, and are normally seen as giving the time since solidification.



The isotope concentrations can be measured very accurately, but isotope concentrations are not dates. To derive ages from such measurements, unprovable assumptions have to be made such as:



1.



The starting conditions are known (for example, that there was no daughter isotope present at the start, or that we know how much was there).

2.



Decay rates have always been constant.

3.



Systems were closed or isolated so that no parent or daughter isotopes were lost or added.



There are patterns in the isotope data



There is plenty of evidence that the radioisotope dating systems are not the infallible techniques many think, and that they are not measuring millions of years. However, there are still patterns to be explained. For example, deeper rocks often tend to give older ‘ages.’ Creationists agree that the deeper rocks are generally older, but not by millions of years. Geologist John Woodmorappe, in his devastating critique of radioactive dating,8 points out that there are other large-scale trends in the rocks that have nothing to do with radioactive decay.

‘Bad’ dates



When a ‘date’ differs from that expected, researchers readily invent excuses for rejecting the result. The common application of such posterior reasoning shows that radiometric dating has serious problems. Woodmorappe cites hundreds of examples of excuses used to explain ‘bad’ dates.9



For example, researchers applied posterior reasoning to the dating of Australopithecus ramidus fossils.10 Most samples of basalt closest to the fossil-bearing strata give dates of about 23 Ma (Mega annum, million years) by the argon-argon method. The authors decided that was ‘too old,’ according to their beliefs about the place of the fossils in the evolutionary grand scheme of things. So they looked at some basalt further removed from the fossils and selected 17 of 26 samples to get an acceptable maximum age of 4.4 Ma. The other nine samples again gave much older dates but the authors decided they must be contaminated and discarded them. That is how radiometric dating works. It is very much driven by the existing long-age world view that pervades academia today.



A similar story surrounds the dating of the primate skull known as KNM-ER 1470.11 This started with an initial 212 to 230 Ma, which, according to the fossils, was considered way off the mark (humans ‘weren’t around then’). Various other attempts were made to date the volcanic rocks in the area. Over the years an age of 2.9 Ma was settled upon because of the agreement between several different published studies (although the studies involved selection of ‘good’ from ‘bad’ results, just like Australopithecus ramidus, above).



However, preconceived notions about human evolution could not cope with a skull like 1470 being ‘that old.’ A study of pig fossils in Africa readily convinced most anthropologists that the 1470 skull was much younger. After this was widely accepted, further studies of the rocks brought the radiometric age down to about 1.9 Ma—again several studies ‘confirmed’ this date. Such is the dating game.



Are we suggesting that evolutionists are conspiring to massage the data to get what they want? No, not generally. It is simply that all observations must fit the prevailing paradigm. The paradigm, or belief system, of molecules-to-man evolution over eons of time, is so strongly entrenched it is not questioned—it is a ‘fact.’ So every observation must fit this paradigm. Unconsciously, the researchers, who are supposedly ‘objective scientists’ in the eyes of the public, select the observations to fit the basic belief system.



We must remember that the past is not open to the normal processes of experimental science, that is, repeatable experiments in the present. A scientist cannot do experiments on events that happened in the past. Scientists do not measure the age of rocks, they measure isotope concentrations, and these can be measured extremely accurately. However, the ‘age’ is calculated using assumptions about the past that cannot be proven.



We should remember God’s admonition to Job, ‘Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?’ (Job 38:4).



Those involved with unrecorded history gather information in the present and construct stories about the past. The level of proof demanded for such stories seems to be much less than for studies in the empirical sciences, such as physics, chemistry, molecular biology, physiology, etc.



Williams, an expert in the environmental fate of radioactive elements, identified 17 flaws in the isotope dating reported in just three widely respected seminal papers that supposedly established the age of the earth at 4.6 billion years.12 John Woodmorappe has produced an incisive critique of these dating methods.13 He exposes hundreds of myths that have grown up around the techniques. He shows that the few ‘good’ dates left after the ‘bad’ dates are filtered out could easily be explained as fortunate coincidences.

What date would you like?



The forms issued by radioisotope laboratories for submission with samples to be dated commonly ask how old the sample is expected to be. Why? If the techniques were absolutely objective and reliable, such information would not be necessary. Presumably, the laboratories know that anomalous dates are common, so they need some check on whether they have obtained a ‘good’ date.

Testing radiometric dating methods



If the long-age dating techniques were really objective means of finding the ages of rocks, they should work in situations where we know the age. Furthermore, different techniques should consistently agree with one another.

Methods should work reliably on things of known age



There are many examples where the dating methods give ‘dates’ that are wrong for rocks of known age. One example is K-Ar ‘dating’ of five historical andesite lava flows from Mount Nguaruhoe in New Zealand. Although one lava flow occurred in 1949, three in 1954, and one in 1975, the ‘dates’ range from less than 0.27 to 3.5 Ma.14



Again, using hindsight, it is argued that ‘excess’ argon from the magma (molten rock) was retained in the rock when it solidified. The secular scientific literature lists many examples of excess argon causing dates of millions of years in rocks of known historical age.15 This excess appears to have come from the upper mantle, below the earth’s crust. This is consistent with a young world—the argon has had too little time to escape.16 If excess argon can cause exaggerated dates for rocks of known age, then why should we trust the method for rocks of unknown age?



Other techniques, such as the use of isochrons,17 make different assumptions about starting conditions, but there is a growing recognition that such ‘foolproof’ techniques can also give ‘bad’ dates. So data are again selected according to what the researcher already believes about the age of the rock.



Geologist Dr Steve Austin sampled basalt from the base of the Grand Canyon strata and from the lava that spilled over the edge of the canyon. By evolutionary reckoning, the latter should be a billion years younger than the basalt from the bottom. Standard laboratories analyzed the isotopes. The rubidium-strontium isochron technique suggested that the recent lava flow was 270 Ma older than the basalts beneath the Grand Canyon—an impossibility.

Different dating techniques should consistently agree



If the dating methods are an objective and reliable means of determining ages, they should agree. If a chemist were measuring the sugar content of blood, all valid methods for the determination would give the same answer (within the limits of experimental error). However, with radiometric dating, the different techniques often give quite different results.



In the study of the Grand Canyon rocks by Austin, different techniques gave different results.18 Again, all sorts of reasons can be suggested for the ‘bad’ dates, but this is again posterior reasoning. Techniques that give results that can be dismissed just because they don’t agree with what we already believe cannot be considered objective.



In Australia, some wood found in Tertiary basalt was clearly buried in the lava flow that formed the basalt, as can be seen from the charring. The wood was ‘dated’ by radiocarbon (14C) analysis at about 45,000 years old, but the basalt was ‘dated’ by potassium-argon method at 45 million years old!19



Isotope ratios or uraninite crystals from the Koongarra uranium body in the Northern Territory of Australia gave lead-lead isochron ages of 841 Ma, plus or minus 140 Ma.20 This contrasts with an age of 1550-1650 Ma based on other isotope ratios,21 and ages of 275, 61, 0,0, and 0 Ma for thorium/lead (232Th/208Pb) ratios in five uraninite grains. The latter figures are significant because thorium-derived dates should be the more reliable, since thorium is less mobile than the uranium minerals that are the parents of the lead isotopes in lead-lead system.22 The ‘zero’ ages in this case are consistent with the Bible.

More evidence something is wrong—14C in fossils supposedly millions of years old



Fossils older than 100,000 years should have too little 14C to measure, but dating labs consistently find 14C, well above background levels, in fossils supposedly many millions of years old.23,24 For example, no source of coal has been found that lacks 14C, yet this fossil fuel supposedly ranges up to hundreds of millions of years old. Fossils in rocks dated at 1–500 Ma by long-age radioisotope dating methods gave an average radiocarbon ‘age’ of about 50,000 years, much less than the limits of modern carbon dating24 (see pp. 65–69 in The Revised and Expanded Answers Book for why even these radiocarbon ages are inflated). Furthermore, there was no pattern of younger to older in the carbon dates that correlated with the evolutionary/uniformitarian ‘ages’.24



This evidence is consistent with the fossil-bearing rock layers being formed in the year-long global catastrophe of the biblical Flood, as flood geologists since Nicholas Steno (1631–1687) have recognized.



Even Precambrian (‘older than 545 Ma’) graphite, which is not of organic origin, contains 14C above background levels.25 This is consistent with Earth itself being only thousands of years old, as a straightforward reading of the Bible would suggest.

Many physical evidence contradict the ‘billions of years’



Of the methods that have been used to estimate the age of the earth, 90 percent point to an age far less than the billions of years asserted by evolutionists. A few of them follow.



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Evidence for a rapid formation of geological strata, as in the biblical flood. Some of the evidence are: lack of erosion between rock layers supposedly separated in age by many millions of years; lack of disturbance of rock strata by biological activity (worms, roots, etc.); lack of soil layers; polystrate fossils (which traverse several rock layers vertically—these could not have stood vertically for eons of time while they slowly got buried); thick layers of ‘rock’ bent without fracturing, indicating that the rock was all soft when bent; and more. For more, see books by geologists Morris26 and Austin.27

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Red blood cells and hemoglobin have been found in some (unfossilized!) dinosaur bone. But these could not last more than a few thousand years—certainly not the 65 Ma since the last dinosaurs lived, according to evolutionists.28

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The earth’s magnetic field has been decaying so fast that it looks like it is less than 10,000 years old. Rapid reversals during the Flood year and fluctuations shortly after would have caused the field energy to drop even faster.29, 30

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Radioactive decay releases helium into the atmosphere, but not much is escaping. The total amount in the atmosphere is 1/2000th of that expected if the universe is really billions of years old. This helium originally escaped from rocks. This happens quite fast, yet so much helium is still in some rocks that it has not had time to escape—certainly not billions of years.30

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A supernova is an explosion of a massive star—the explosion is so bright that it briefly outshines the rest of the galaxy. The supernova remnants (SNRs) should keep expanding for hundreds of thousands of years, according to physical equations. Yet there are no very old, widely expanded (Stage 3) SNRs, and few moderately old (Stage 1) ones in our galaxy, the Milky Way, or in its satellite galaxies, the Magellanic Clouds. This is just what we would expect for ‘young’ galaxies that have not existed long enough for wide expansion.31

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The moon is slowly receding from the earth at about 4 centimeters (1.5 inches) per year, and this rate would have been greater in the past. But even if the moon had started receding from being in contact with the earth, it would have taken only 1.37 billion years to reach its present distance from the earth. This gives a maximum age of the moon, not the actual age. This is far too young for evolutionists who claim the moon is 4.6 billion years old. It is also much younger than the radiometric ‘dates’ assigned to moon rocks.32

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Salt is entering the sea much faster than it is escaping. The sea is not nearly salty enough for this to have been happening for billions of years. Even granting generous assumptions to evolutionists, the sea could not be more than 62 Ma years old—far younger than the billions of years believed by the evolutionists. Again, this indicates a maximum age, not the actual age.33



Dr Russell Humphreys gives other processes inconsistent with billions of years in the pamphlet Evidence for a Young World.34



Creationists cannot prove the age of the earth using a particular scientific method, any more than evolutionists can. They realize that all science is tentative because we do not have all the data, especially when dealing with the past. This is true of both creationist and evolutionist scientific arguments—evolutionists have had to abandon many ‘proofs’ for evolution just as creationists have also had to modify their arguments. The atheistic evolutionist W.B. Provine admitted: ‘Most of what I learned of the field [evolutionary biology] in graduate (1964-68) school is either wrong or significantly changed.’ 35



Creationists understand the limitations of dating methods better than evolutionists who claim that they can use processes observed in the present to ‘prove’ that the earth is billions of years old. In reality, all dating methods, including those that point to a young earth, rely on unprovable assumptions.



Creationists ultimately date the earth historically using the chronology of the Bible. This is because they believe that this is an accurate eyewitness account of world history, which bears the evidence within it that it is the Word of God, and therefore totally reliable and error-free.

Then what do the radiometric ‘dates’ mean?



What do the radiometric dates of millions of years mean, if they are not true ages? To answer this question, it is necessary to scrutinize further the experimental results from the various dating techniques, the interpretations made on the basis of the results and the assumptions underlying those interpretations.



The isochron dating technique was thought to be infallible because it supposedly covered the assumptions about starting conditions and closed systems.



Geologist Dr Andrew Snelling worked on dating the Koongarra uranium deposits in the Northern Territory of Australia, primarily using the uranium-thorium-lead (U-Th-Pb) method. He found that even highly weathered soil samples from the area, which are definitely not closed systems, gave apparently valid ‘isochron’ lines with ‘ages’ of up to 1,445 Ma.



Such ‘false isochrons’ are so common that a whole terminology has grown up to describe them, such as apparent isochron, mantle isochron, pseudoisochron, secondary isochron, inherited isochron, erupted isochron, mixing line and mixing isochron. Zheng wrote:



Some of the basic assumptions of the conventional Rb-Sr [rubidium-strontium] isochron method have to be modified and an observed isochron does not certainly define valid age information for a geological system, even if a goodness of fit of the experimental results is obtained in plotting 87Sr/86Sr. This problem cannot be overlooked, especially in evaluating the numerical time scale. Similar questions can also arise in applying Sm-Nd [samarium-neodymium] and U-Pb [uranium-lead] isochron methods.37



Clearly, there are factors other than age responsible for the straight lines obtained from graphing isotope ratios. Again, the only way to know if an isochron is ‘good’ is by comparing the result with what is already believed.



Another currently popular dating method is the uranium-lead concordia technique. This effectively combines the two uranium-lead decay series into one diagram. Results that lie on the concordia curve have the same age according to the two lead series and are called ‘concordant.’ However, the results from zircons (a type of gemstone), for example, generally lie off the concordia curve—they are discordant. Numerous models, or stories, have been developed to explain such data.38 However, such exercises in story-telling can hardly be considered as objective science that proves an old earth. Again, the stories are evaluated according to their own success in agreeing with the existing long ages belief system.



Andrew Snelling has suggested that fractionation (sorting) of elements in the molten state in the earth’s mantle could be a significant factor in explaining the ratios of isotope concentrations which are interpreted as ages.



As long ago as 1966, Nobel Prize nominee Melvin Cook, professor of metallurgy at the University of Utah, pointed out evidence that lead isotope ratios, for example, may involve alteration by important factors other than radioactive decay.39 Cook noted that, in ores from the Katanga mine, for example, there was an abundance of lead-208, a stable isotope, but no Thorium-232 as a source for lead-208. Thorium has a long half-life (decays very slowly) and is not easily moved out of the rock, so if the lead-208 came from thorium decay, some thorium should still be there. The concentrations of lead-206, lead-207, and lead-208 suggest that the lead-208 came about by neutron capture conversion of lead-206 to lead-207 to lead-208. When the isotope concentrations are adjusted for such conversions, the ages calculated are reduced from some 600 Ma to recent. Other ore bodies seemed to show similar evidence. Cook recognized that the current understanding of nuclear physics did not seem to allow for such a conversion under normal conditions, but he presents evidence that such did happen, and even suggests how it could happen.

Anomalies in deep rock crystals



Physicist Dr Robert Gentry has pointed out that the amount of helium and lead in zircons from deep bores is not consistent with an evolutionary age of 1,500 Ma for the granite rocks in which they are found.40 The amount of lead may be consistent with current rates of decay over millions of years, but it would have diffused out of the crystals in that time.



Furthermore, the amount of helium in zircons from hot rock is also much more consistent with a young earth (helium derives from the decay of radioactive elements).



The lead and helium results suggest that rates of radioactive decay may have been much higher in the recent past. Humphreys has suggested that this may have occurred during creation week and the flood. This would make things look much older than they really are when current rates of decay are applied to dating. Whatever caused such elevated rates of decay may also have been responsible for the lead isotope conversions claimed by Cook (above).

Orphan radiohalos



Decaying radioactive particles in solid rock cause spherical zones of damage to the surrounding crystal structure. A speck of radioactive element such as Uranium-238, for example, will leave a sphere of discoloration of characteristically different radius for each element it produces in its decay chain to lead-206.41 Viewed in cross-section with a microscope, these spheres appear as rings called radiohalos. Dr Gentry has researched radiohalos for many years, and published his results in leading scientific journals.42



Some of the intermediate decay products—such as the polonium isotopes—have very short half-lives (they decay quickly). For example, 218Po has a half-life of just 3 minutes. Curiously, rings formed by polonium decay are often found embedded in crystals without the parent uranium halos. Now the polonium has to get into the rock before the rock solidifies, but it cannot derive a from a uranium speck in the solid rock, otherwise there would be a uranium halo. Either the polonium was created (primordial, not derived from uranium), or there have been radical changes in decay rates in the past.



Gentry has addressed all attempts to criticize his work.43 There have been many attempts, because the orphan halos speak of conditions in the past, either at creation or after, perhaps even during the flood, which do not fit with the uniformitarian view of the past, which is the basis of the radiometric dating systems. Whatever process was responsible for the halos could be a key also to understanding radiometric dating.44

Conclusion



There are many lines of evidence that the radiometric dates are not the objective evidence for an old earth that many claim, and that the world is really only thousands of years old. We don't have all the answers, but we do have the sure testimony of the Word of God to the true history of the world.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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