Question:
How can people deny macro evolution?
2008-09-09 14:24:53 UTC
I know there is no actuall proof as in a field experiment for it, but there IS proof for micro evolution, and they are basically the same.

When you think about it, macro evolution is simply many micro-evolutionary changes piled up ontop of each other, untill the resulting species is so changed that we consider it a new one.

Here, take a look at a black bear (bear family), a tiger (feline), and a wolf (canine). Place the pictures side by side:

http://www.terrierman.com/blackbear.bmp
http://www.solarnavigator.net/animal_kin...
http://www.biskitz4cheez.com/photogaller...

Dont you see the similarities? The only changes are fur color & depth (micro evolution), slight changes in bone size and shape (micro evolution), claw differences (micro evolution) and a slight skull alteration (also micro evolution). All these things are little changes (micro evolutionary changes), but in the end they all add up to create entirely different species.

Why cant they be from a similar ancestor? They have the same basic bone structure, organs, four legs, a head, a tail, ears, paws, claws, they even have similar skulls!
Eight answers:
2008-09-09 14:31:32 UTC
Don't pander to uneducated creationists by using their unscientific terminology like "micro" and "macro" evolution.
Brent H
2008-09-09 14:36:58 UTC
Um, Micro Evolution and Macro Evolution are two completely different things as far as the magnitude of change.



Macro Evolution dictates that entire protein and DNA strands can alter to form completely different body parts. That simply is not possible. There are certain boundaries that the change simply cannot cross.



Micro Evolution however is quite real and even as a Christian I believe in it. This is the process of certain genes being eliminated or added in a closed breeding pool. This is NOT morphing into another species. You can see examples of this in dog or any other animal breeding... That's how certain breeds were created.



Yes, the two process are similar in kind, however the magnitude of each is entirely different and they cannot be placed together to prove each other.
Stephie
2008-09-09 14:58:21 UTC
Interesting example, and what I can say won't satisfy your inquiry. However, at the same time, I won't stoop the level of personal insults like the first poster. If you really are looking for an answer, I'll provide you my perspective based on what came to the top of my mind. Based on your example, you're merely speculating that they "could" have a common ancestor. And after all these micro changes over millions of years we have all these new species. Plausible theory given it is literally impossible for us to "visualize" such change, and all we can do is hypothesize based on what we view as evidence. Here's where I'm sure our opinions diverge.



First of all, we've done a lot of digging and haven't been able to find anything close to that ancestor, or any transitional forms in between. I live in Central Oregon, and East of us are the John Day fossil beds. Aside from the beauty, there are layers and layers of sediment covering the span of hundreds of thousands, and even millions of years. There are similar geologic sites all over the world, and yet somehow we can never seem to unearth that transitional form. Sure, we've only been trying for some time, but even you have to have faith to believe that at some point that's going to happen in order to buy into Macro-evolution as your world-view. Also, because it takes millions of years to see change, on one has, or likely ever will, actually witness the birth of a completely new species from another. We've witnessed new breeds with similar genetic traits, but not the creation of entirely new species.



The second divergent point, based on your example, is the assumption that they because they look the same they must have a common ancestor. Sure, that is certainly a reasonable assumption to start from, but if I put the picture of my new baby girl up there (and she's beautiful by the way), I still see many of the same traits. 4 limbs, eyes, nose, mouth, teeth, joints, hair "fur", a brain, heart, etc...you get the picture. In any way do I see a resemblance that says common ancestor similar to your example? Certainly not, which is why you didn't include a human in that example. But the point being, I feel a creator who would create such beautiful and complex systems for breathing oxygen, processing electronic neuro-signals, the ability for vision, and all the other "micro" systems that compose the fascinating animals/plants/and life on this earth would also reuse those same components very similar to how a software engineer writes a piece of code to do some task and then assembles that code together to make more complex systems, and modifies the code to suit the specific needs of each application. I'm not introducing that as a theory, I'm simply pointing out that we can find different ways of thinking and approaching the same example. Before someone jumps out to say how simple the systems really are, or how imperfect or seemingly useless certain components are, let me say this first. For all man's "wisdom", and how "simple" these systems are, we've never been able to replicate them, or recreate life into anything that remotely resembles a complex biological organism (yes, I read that one scientist really feels he's close to producing a very simplified version of life in a lab just today). And, I never claimed everything was perfect. And if a body can adapt, change, mutate, then it is certainly within the realm of possibility that these systems are created with the capacity to also adapt, change, fit other organisms without the need to redesign the wheel so to speak.



Of course, you can guess that I'm not a supporter of macro evolution, but I also do not deny that we are wonderfully created beings with the ability to adapt, change, and improve within our own individual species. We've even learned how attempt to "mimic" life, but for all we've learned, we've never seen species adapt into entirely new species, we haven't been able to unlock the mystery of a common ancestor, and making that leap for me, is simply not compatible with my own world-view until sufficient evidence exists to prove otherwise, although I don't believe that evidence will ever be found.



That being said, macro evolution is a fine theory to explain one possible way of looking at evidence to try and figure out how we got here, and how we have come to exist in our current state. It just happens to be a theory I'm inclined to not view favorably. If I'm spreading such a thin array of clues out on a table trying to piece together a puzzle, it's one plausible theory I would logically derive.



Thanks :)
2008-09-09 14:37:22 UTC
"Why cant they be from a similar ancestor?" A conclusion that shows that most people insist that everything point to evolution and not consider any alternate answer.



That is not research.



Your question only proves that some animals are similar and you therefore conclude that there must be a connection. Why? Why must there be?



Your ideas are flawed because you are making assumptions based on what you want the evidence to show.
2008-09-09 14:44:36 UTC
It's like believing in days, but not years.
?
2008-09-09 14:34:31 UTC
If you believe God, your logic is illogical, Captain. His Word states in Genesis, He created every creature each to their own kind...no evolution.
Kaleo Euaggelizo
2008-09-09 14:29:37 UTC
LOL, show me the fossils! Transitional and otherwise. LOL!
Chicken Little
2008-09-09 14:29:30 UTC
Uh... because they're IDIOTS???


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