Question:
Intelligent design or Darwinism?
Edward O
2010-02-26 11:26:21 UTC
There has been a bunch of discussions between Intelligent design and Darwinism. For in my own opinion, I believe the universe is around four billion years old, however I also believe God was and is part of life as it is going on. For the "Big-bang" people, I have a few questions (and give an answer as if your the professor, I'm the student- a dismissive answer is no answer at all.) 1. What happened before the "Big-bang?" 2. The Big-bang was supposedly one element that just "blew" how does helium become gold; gold become uranium etc.
25 answers:
ungodly
2010-02-26 11:29:14 UTC
It's not a 'heads-or-tails' thing, although that's all that many of you theists can wrap your heads around. You don't, can't and won't get it.
Sav
2010-02-26 11:33:33 UTC
First of all, we know nothing about what happened outside of the local area of our universe at the time of the big bang - because the light hasn't had time to reach us yet. We we say the universe started with a big bang, we really mean the part of the universe local to us.



There are a few theories that areas further away weren't part of that process... or even that the big bang created a new universe section "at right-angles" to the existing universe. Or, there are theories that there are many universes that make up the multiverse, and the multiverse has always been there... it just creates new parts every so often by a kind of big bang process. The important thing to note is that big bang needn't be a theory of the creation of everything.



As for heavier elements, stars form from hydrogen and helium and start a process of nuclear fusion. Nuclear fusion creates all the heavier elements as by-products of the fusion process. Stars eventually die, explode, then clump together again to make solar systems with the heavier elements formy rocky spheres, or planets.
choko_canyon
2010-02-26 11:31:31 UTC
1. There are several scenarios that address this issue. The most compelling is the 'cycle' scenario, that describes a big bang, followed by an expanding universe, followed by a slow collapse of that universe, followed by a new big bang, etc, extending in time both directions eternally. Thus there is no 'before', but only an earlier part of the cycle.



2. A 9th grade chemistry textbook would be able to describe to you how elements are structured and how they form. Even a cursory reading would give you more information on this topic than I either can or have the patience to attempt.
skeptik
2010-02-26 11:42:17 UTC
I'm sorry but if you (as a student) asked this of a professor, he would tell you that you have such a complete lack of understanding of *any* of the topics in question that you need to sit down, close your mouth, and listen.



You apparently don't know enough of what you are asking about to even understand the answer. Since only someone with such a lack of knowledge would think that "Darwinism" and the Big Bang have anything to do with each other.



They generally wouldn't even be covered by the same professor. One of them is Biology. The other is Astrophysics.
Upasakha Jason
2010-02-26 11:30:59 UTC
I don't know what happened before the Big Bang. No one does, to be honest. However, the heavier elements were formed in stars. As stars fuse hydrogen atoms together, helium is the product. As stars age, they begin fusing helium atoms together, forming heavier atoms. Most stars will try to continue fusing these heavier elements with a greater or lesser degree of success. When the star finally dies, these heavier elements are scattered through space.
Ami
2010-02-26 11:32:27 UTC
Evolution is NOT "Darwinism."



Evolution has NOTHING to do with the Big Bang; the Big Bang theory is totally separate.



And NO ONE claims that the Big Bang was "supposedly one element."



You CLEARLY have NO idea what you're talking about.
Blackacre
2010-02-26 11:32:27 UTC
Evolution has evidence: ID does not.

Abiogenesis has nothing to do with Darwin or Evolution.

The Big Bang has nothing to do with Darwin or Evolution.



It's a lot easier if people actually understand what Evolution is rather than pretending it is something else in order to present an argument.
anonymous
2010-02-26 11:41:01 UTC
1. Invalid concept; the Big Bang event is the existence of matter and the initial conception of continuously expanding of time and space within a singularity - an infinitesimally small dimensionless point. Every point in our singularity universe observes itself to be the oldest and most centralized point in the entire universe.



2. All the matter in the universe is static and unchanging. As time and space continuously expands around matter, it must curve out of its way and we experience this as an acceleration called gravity. Also within the singularity is the subatomic phenomenon called energy (E), but this is just the static matter (m) directly conflicting with the continuously expanding time and space (c) and this interaction is expressed as E=mc^2. The elements are produced by energetic interactions between the (m) and (c) in the universe.
Question Everything™
2010-02-26 11:29:58 UTC
Darwin and his theories on natural selection have NOTHING to do with the Big Bang theory. Get an education before you ask a question.
anonymous
2010-02-26 11:30:27 UTC
r-process in supernova explosions leads to both gold and uranium



s-process in AGB (Asymptotic giant branch) stars also produce heavy atoms such as gold although I believe only up to Bismuth on the periodic table.



conventional stellar fusion in typical (non AGB) stars will produce elements up to iron on the periodic table, so gold and uranium would not be included here.



There are various hypothesizes about pre-big bang scenarios. At this point they are speculative due to the lack of corroborating data.
Salvador
2010-02-26 11:30:17 UTC
we don't know, and for all we know asking what was before the big bang is like asking what is north of the north pole



nuclear fusion in the core of stars. When the star is young it fuses two hydrogen atoms into one helium atom and as hydrogen levels drop it begins to fuse helium and hydrogen int the heavier elements.
expertgal
2010-02-26 11:39:43 UTC
Intelligent Design for sure. No one living now can

KNOW if the earth is four billion years old, or not.

For all the different things I see here on earth, there

had to be a Creator...even our bodies are delicately

designed. We all have two eyes, one nose, and a

mouth yet all millions of us have a different look.

There are millions of species of the plant family.

Look at all the animals on this earth. No Big Bang

could possibly result in the riches and wonders on

this earth.
anonymous
2010-02-26 11:28:55 UTC
We do not know anything that happened before hand.



It was not just one element that just "blew" . Perhaps you should get in contact with a professional astronomer or physicist or a chemist to answer some of this.



I am none of the above.



Tell me, what happened before your god was around?
?
2016-10-30 05:11:22 UTC
Wow! a sturdy thinking question! Myself, I won't fake to renowned the comprehensive tale, yet I do think of approximately those issues. before everything, I actual have often theory that each and all and sundry living issues might have developed from better than one uncomplicated ancestor. If complicated carbon based molecules someway grew to grow to be self replicating, whichever situations led to it could have produced better than one (even many) self replicating DNA molecules. issues do "randomly" mutate, generally by way of fact of neutrinos passing with the aid of all remember in the worldwide. As for survival of the fittest, i think of it is a case of survival of the luckiest besides. Do i think of this removes the potential for a larger self conscious intelligence (God in case you like)? on no account. it ought to all be by making use of layout or no longer. it may additionally be in part by making use of layout and in part random.
Simon T
2010-02-26 11:31:45 UTC
1. I do not know. M-theory looks interesting, but needs to be tested.





2. Nuclear fusion in stars gets you from hydrogen to iron. Nuclear fusion in novae and supernovae gets you the rest of the elements.
anonymous
2010-02-26 11:28:15 UTC
here is how I know you are retarded (all offense intended)... you ask a question with 'Darwinism' in the title... then you ask about the big-bang theory...



Biology and cosmology are two different fields of science...



The theory of evolution by means of natural selection has NOTHING to do with the Big-bang...



1. we don't know anything about about before big bang... it is an unknown... and just using "supernatural" response doesn't come close to answering it either...

2. Wtf? you think that elements evolved? oh my... it's worse than I thought... my prescription, go to a natural science history museum, go to an observatory, and read at least two books one on evolution and one on cosmolgy... maybe pray some hail marys if you feel the need to...
neil s
2010-02-26 11:29:17 UTC
1) Time emerged with the Big Bang, there is no "before".

2) We are star dust
anonymous
2010-02-26 11:29:06 UTC
1) there is no "before"

2) No-one claims that the Big Bang was "supposedly one element".
anonymous
2010-02-26 11:29:26 UTC
How about evolution by natural selection and sting theory. What the hell is Darwinism? Is that like a religion or something?
Brigalow Bloke
2010-02-26 14:00:20 UTC
Standard theory of the big bang suggests that time and space themselves were created or appeared at the big bang. If that is true, then there was no "before". There was no matter or element at this time since the energy density then and soon after was too high for atoms or even protons and neutrons to exist. We are talking here about time periods of 10 ^ -45 seconds or less.



Second, events in highly energetic environments such as the early Universe just after the big bang have been calculated from evidence gained by experiments with particle colliders and thermonuclear weapons. These calculations show that the overall chemical composition of the matter in the Universe should have been about 73% hydrogen, 25% helium and 2% lithium and boron. The nuclei of these atoms should have been formed about three minutes after the absolute start. Astronomical observations show that this is still true, heavier elements make up only a tiny fraction of the matter in the Universe and all stars, which are by far the heaviest condensed single objects in the Universe are around 73% hydrogen and 25% helium. This is evidence that these events shortly after the absolute start did actually happen.



However, as physicists do not only admit but INSIST, they do not know what happened before this since the calculations go to infinite values at what is called the Planck time. The mathematics we have cannot handle infinite values.



Third, the ideas of membrane collisions proposed by string theorists are almost entirely hypothetical and may be correct, partly correct or wholly wrong. They are hypotheses based on very little physical evidence but a lot of mathematics as physicists are fully aware. While popular media reports may not give this impression, the scientists have almost no influence on what a journalist chooses to report or emphasise. However if the string theorists are correct or even partially correct it might mean the Universe has always existed in some form or another, that is, it is infinitely old already. That does not suit religious sensibilities either.



The only other theory of the origin of the visible Universe that came within a bull's roar of accounting for the evidence available was the "continuous creation" model proposed by Fred Hoyle around 1948. He proposed continuous creation of tiny amounts of matter, at the rate of a few atoms per cubic parsec per billion years. That might have been possible from quantum theory. That means that tiny amounts of space were created to accommodate the matter and that accounted for the observed expansion of the Universe. It also meant that the Universe was effectively infinitely old. Hoyle's model did not predict the cosmic microwave background which was accidentally discovered in 1964-65 by Penzias and Wilson and predicted by the big bang model. Penzias and Wilson were not looking for this microwave background, they found it as noise in their radio receivers when setting up an antenna for the immanent launch of communications satellites like Telstar. Since then it has been measured many times and satellite observations several years ago shows the agreement with theory is exquisite.



The idea that all the elements heavier than boron were cooked up in the internal processes of stars has been around for a long time, but until the 1950s nobody knew how it worked. Fred Hoyle guessed that the nuclear energy levels and resonances in carbon nuclei permitted the fusion of lighter elements to form carbon. At the time this was mostly hypothetical but it allowed calculation of a chain of reactions inside stars that could produce the heavier elements. Later his guess was found to be substantially correct and the pathways of many different fusion reactions have now been worked in in great detail. The subject is called "stellar nucleosynthesis" and the simpler parts of it are taught in first year college physics courses to prospective chemists, biologists and geologists. I was given lessons in it in the 1970s, it is not new.



In smaller stars like our Sun these processes lead only to iron, temperatures and pressures in such stellar cores do not reach the levels needed to produce heavier nuclei. However they do in larger stars and there are many of those. These stars may end their lives in a catastrophic collapse when the lighter fuels are exhausted, the internal temperatures and pressures soar beyond those needed to fuse heavier nuclei like iron together into heavier nuclei like gold and uranium. Some of these reactions are statistically improbable but still occur, and that is why some elements are more scarce than other. Most elements heavier than iron are quite rare. That is a direct consequence of the statistical improbablility of the reactions that lead to them.



The resulting rebound after the collapse of stars may be classed as a supernova when these heavier elements are released to space. Such stellar accidents and some less violent are common and are observed almost daily in our own galaxy and in other galaxies. One was naked-eye visible in one of the Magellanic clouds, which is a satellite minor galaxy nearby. I saw it in 1987.



That is what I know and remember about the big bang and stellar nucleosynthesis. They have nothing to do with Darwin's theory of the diversity of organisms except that they produced conditions in which organisms could exist. They also have nothing to do with "intelligent design" which was developed by the Discovery Institute several years ago.



The proposed big bang and the formation of our solar system are separate events. Our solar system is about a third the age of the visible Universe, it did NOT form in the big bang. The appearance or creation of life on Earth is not part of the theory of evolution or of evolution itself. Evolution only works on existing populations of organisms.



Confusion and conflation of these facts and theories is standard practice for creationist leaders who wish to keep the faithful ignorant and mixed up, since they are making a living from them. None of these facts and theories deny the possibility of some kind of god, but they do deny the ancient guesswork stories in old documents like Egyptian papyri, Sumerian clay tablets and Genesis.



There is no discussion between "intelligent design" as proposed by the Discovery Institute and scientists. Scientists do not waste their time arguing with deliberate and persistent liars like the Discovery Institute.
Freethinking Liberal
2010-02-26 11:31:17 UTC
If you really want answers to your questions, then you need to post it in science. Intelligent design, otherwise known as RBS (religious bulls***) is a none starter.
anonymous
2010-02-26 11:27:54 UTC
The big fuse was lit
Gregory
2010-02-26 11:37:07 UTC
Intelligent design only
BillyBoyKid
2010-02-26 11:27:36 UTC
Both.
Karl P
2010-02-26 11:27:47 UTC
Creator God!! 'darwinism' is a Counterfeit. Period.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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