A Question About The Bible?

OPsaltis

2010-07-25 07:27:47 UTC

There is a huge difference between the types of changes that can occur. The known changes in the Hebrew scriptures are not large, and do not change any of the essential teaching. Now, if we had a copy of, say, the Gospel of John where Jesus was born in Persia of a king and queen, and came to live with Joseph and Mary as a young boy, *that* would be a substantive change.

Do not worry about "changes" in translations; these are not "corruptions" of the the original languages. The Orthodox and Catholic Churches have manuscripts that are quite old in both Greek and Hebrew, and that don't exhibit a worrying number of changes.

Blessings.

/Orthodox

2010-07-25 18:14:17 UTC

Well - I would think this obvious, but I will point it out anyway....

1) Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is an eternal book

It does not.

2) that it can never be changed

It does not.

3) that Jesus' name is a name above all names

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=php%202:5-9&multilayout=cols&version1=49&version2=9

4) and can not be mistranslated

Normal translation practice is to *never* translate a name, and that is true of Jesus' name. Jesus' name translated means (roughly) "Yahweh Saves".

5) I'm curious to ask, because I believe in the teaching of Christ as it was depicted back in the old ways which was written before the first English translation ever came around. I believe in God, Yeshua, the Watchers, and Nephilim, and all the stuff that was said in the original Bible, not what we have in our Bibles today.

You claim to follow two conflicting things here. With extremely few exceptions, modern English Bibles are translations of the original language Bible Scriptures performed by accredited experts in the field of Biblical languages. There has never been a superior translation of the Bible than is available in English today unless, perhaps, it is the Nova Vulgata (those Roman Catholic scholars really know their ancient languages, and they have heaps of appropriately-accredited and very experienced scholars in the Roman Catholic Church).

"the Watchers" appears in no original language Biblical Scripture, nor has that term - to the best of my admittedly limited knowledge - ever appeared in any translation of the Bible.

"nephilim" is commonly included in modern, scholarly English translations of the Bible.

The original Bible - the first book know AS "the Bible" - was the Latin Vulgate of 405 C.E. It has been translated into English (Douay-Rheims; Knox Bible), with the addition only of the Book of Baruch (and NO omissions), and it's meaning is, practically speaking, identical to that of modern Bibles.

6) I know the books are vastly different from then, and now.

There has NEVER been less difference. The scholarly translations of modern times are the most accurate in history - that is, they are closer than any historical translation. How is it that you "know" this?

7) I've read and I know that Jesus' name, Yeshua, only came about because of mistranslations

Neither "Yeshua" or "Jesus" are translations of any sort - mis- or otherwise.

8) and because the "Y" in Hebrew is closely similar to the "J" in English

Nor was Hebrew commonly spoken in Jesus' time. However, it is true that the "J" **sound** was almost certainly not used in first century Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew.

9) I've came to the realization that books of the Bible have been taken out

This is not something that, logically, someone can "realize". It is only something that you can discover (or not) by researching the topic. For a book to have been taken out of the Bible, it must first have been included in the Bible.

10) that passages have been re-written

Again: this is not something that can be realized, only discovered. Modern accredited Biblical scholars have gone to almost excruciating lengths to uncover altered passages in the original language texts and have been very successful at doing so. I'm pretty certain - totally convinced, in fact - that they have done so much more capably than you are capable of doing. Very nearly ALL modern, scholarly translations make use of source texts which are the result of that excruciatingly thorough (and ongoing) scholarship to expose alterations to Biblical passages. The closest thing to an unaltered Biblical translation available today is a modern, scholarly translation.

11) I know certain verses have been deliberately changed, in order to provoke hate and dislike among people who this religion is supposed to love and cherish.

How do you "know" this? Please provide an example of such a verse and the linguistic analysis that proves that the verse has not been properly translated in a modern, scholarly translation taken from the critical text. Please also provide the academic credentials of the person who has performed this linguistic analysis.

OR - expect that no one reading this will believe you except for those who already agree with you.

12) why is it Christianity has became corrupt

That's like asking, "why has the world become corrupt?" In comparison to what? What do you consider a corruption that is common to all of Christianity? I believe that Christianity as a whole is *not* corrupt - though, of course, there are individual Christians who are corrupt.

13) why is it people believe (The modern version

I'm not certain to which particular modern version you refer, but they believe for the very same reason people believed the ancient version - because it is the most linguistically accurate translation available at the time.

14) why is it when ever I say, have proof, and bring proof to people about how the biblical text has been changed, and what they believe is not what was originally said, why is it I'm just put down as being against God?

Not having seen any such proof here, I cannot say. Some people react emotionally when unable to respond reasonably to support their position. However, considering the number of clear and obvious errors you have included here, I suspect that you have not actually been able to provide proof of this claim.

15) Why has modern Christianity became nothing more then a festering pool of bigotry?

The irony of this statement should astound you. I'm sure that it will astound any reader.

Jim, http://www.bible-reviews.com/

strpenta

2010-07-25 07:37:30 UTC

If you like the philosophy of the NT, you should look into Gnostic Christianity and the Nag Hammadi texts or the Gnostic Gospels (I think they're the same)

However, if the Bible could change over time and the verses could be interpreted however suits the purpose, that hardly makes it 'inerrant'. Also, read the OT...the god it describes is nothing like the Jesus character, Jesus likes children, instructs his followers to be childlike and at one point, wants to hang out with them...but the god of the OT kills all Egyptian children in the Exodus story, drowns EVERYONE during the flood story and when Abraham is going around having battles, he's more than OK with killing children and males.

Plus there is NO evidence of a world wide flood. There is evidence of a large flood in that are so now some Xians try to say the verse meant their world (eye roll)

The book is just unreliable and other than that, there is NOTHING from that time to back it up...there are a few ancient mentions that there were Christians, but there were also members of other religions...just b/c a religion has members does not make it true.

2010-07-25 07:34:01 UTC

Well first of all - do you actually HAVE the "original" text of the Bible, in the original language that it was written in? And do you actually speak ALL of those languages? If you're just quoting sources off the internet or making guesses, then you're going to have to accept the fact that not everyone is going to believe you. Really - what "proof" do you offer? The only "proof" that I would accept is actually reading the original texts with my own eyes, being able to speak those languages and translate all by myself. You've got to understand that people are ALWAYS trying to lead Christians astray - why should anyone assume that you're right just because you say so?

Anyway though, the part that you're looking for is at the very end of the book of Revelation - Chapter 22. From Verse 18 and on will probably be the part that interests you.

2010-07-25 07:39:21 UTC

The Bible is not one book, but a collection of many, many books written at different times. There are many different versions of the Bible in use by different religious groups. Many books never made it into the Bible.

There is a book called the Book of Jasher/Yasher, that you might find interesting to read. Some people think it is the book that the first books of the Bible were based on. It tells the stories of the patriarchs in a more coherent manner than the Bible does. It explains stories fully that the Bible only touches on, for example Sodom & Gomorrah. The Bible says very little about Sodom & Gomorrah and Christians have interpreted this as a condemnation against homosexuality, but if you read the Book of Jasher, it gives the longer detailed story which the Jewish sages know about the story behind Sodom & Gomorrah - and it has nothing to do with homosexuality. Some of the stories re quite amusing, but you understand the message it is trying to teach. In likelihood it was not a real place, as the word Sodom in Hebrew means "scorched", as in God burnt it for being so wicked.

The Book of Jasher also gives the life of Abraham and how he came to believe in one God; although I don't necessarily believe in it all, it is an interesting book to read if you are interested in the history of the Bible.

It is true however, that the Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew and in parts that Hebrew is very poetic, and holds double meanings that have been lost in English, but were quite important to understanding the stories. The Book of Genesis talks of naked Adam & Eve, and the cunning snake. But what you maybe don't know is that the Hebrew word for naked is the same as the word for cunning - AROM. Thus, it says "Now Adam and Eve were both arom and they were not ashamed, but the Snake was even more arom than all the creatures".

geessewereabove

2010-07-25 07:49:07 UTC

Legally the King Jame Bible is not a Christian Bible. King James was a devoted Catholic that did not believe that the Bible should be read even by himself, only Catholic priests should. So he ordered his made with 400 words changed, times each used. It even has unicorns and monsters in it. So it is NOT a Bible of God's!

Then in 1948 a cave was found with all the books of the Bible and others in it. Translators found out that man's writing and rewriting it for 1,400 years (that the JKB had used) and not checking over their work first added, removed and changed a lot. So to get correct Bibles today we need one translated from the 1948 cave.

I believe what is meant by the words not being lost is from where God destroyed the temple (about 60 A.D.) and hit His gold container with the words Moses first wrote down still in it, hidden and safe from devils evil.

Jesus and God's name are both different than the Jewish or Greek way they are written because they are different languages. If we say "yes" in one language the word will be nothing the same in any other language, (Like "oui" in french and "si" in spanish). And some languages do not even have correct words to use.

Christianity started falling for the worst in the mid 1960s and has been on the decrease even since. In 1960 public schools would start with a prayer. Back then the worst that happened in a school day was "paper missed trash can". Prayers stopped, people stopped going to church, violence became common on TV shows. By the age of ten the ave child has seem over 11,000 murders on TV. and this has caused many people, even children, to not feel much anymore if they want to kill or hurt others. Now even curse words are in the better of the shows. (It would be best if we all went to Christian TV stations where this is still kept away from.) It takes a lot of hard work and effort to obey the Bible with all the evil around. Jesus said when he world ends there will only be 144,000 that will make it to heaven, even some church leaders will go to hell. So be careful to obey the Bible and not the words of others.

veneziano

2016-10-30 09:34:31 UTC

actual, you ought to substitute your wording in simple terms fairly: Hebrew Bible Roman Catholic Bible Protestant Bible The Jewish pupils complete the version of the Hebrew Bible in relating to the 0.33 century. That text cloth is roofed in the two the RC and Prot. Bible. The order of the books is distinctive, simply by fact of underlying assumptions. The Christian Bible (the hot testomony) wasn't fairly nailed down till virtually the 10th century or so. After that, it became locked in. This became performed in a chain of Church Councils. this text is an analogous in the two the RC and Prot. Bible, and the previous testomony is rather lots an analogous in the two of those Bibles, different than that the order may well be somewhat distinctive. the only distinction between the RC and Prot. Bibles is the presence of the Apocrypha -- quite a few books that have been unknown in Hebrew, yet have been lined mechanically in Greek language translations of the previous testomony that have been in nicely-known use around the time of the early Church. That Greek translation of the previous testomony (called the Septuagint) became so nicely-known (maximum Jews did no longer at that factor submit to in recommendations a thank you to communicate or examine Hebrew anymore) that whenever you come across the previous testomony quoted interior the hot testomony, that's consistently the Septuagint text cloth they are quoting.

Sunspot

2010-07-25 07:22:34 UTC

There's an odd threat about not changing the prophecy in Revelation that most Christians assume covers the entire Bible, which I believe is why it was intentionally chosen as the last book, sort of a deal sealer, an eternal threat similar to those that Egyptian kings had inscribed in their burial chambers.

The truth is the guy that wrote Revelation, whoever he was (we know he was NOT John the disciple), didn't have a Bible to make such a statement about, his threat was only for his writing.

Ftwasher

2010-07-25 07:21:24 UTC

The dead sea scrolls gave us more and better info, and our current translations are even more accurate. also we have been finding more and more manuscripts and fragments, if you burned every Bible we could remake it from the fragments alone, it is not really different, and except for the queens english, the kj is about the same. you might want to reasearch some more about what we have today

people are always, and always will be corrupt, thats the point of needing Salvation from Christ. you dont seem to know very much about the Bible or you would know that God is as much a warrior and a God of wrath as he is a God of Love

i aint know

2010-07-25 07:37:16 UTC

Wow Guess all those people who have spent hundreds of thousands of hours researching the bible should have just asked you ... odd that you even have a question to ask since you know so much ..i absolutely agree with you 100% and would love to have that proof you're talking about to show some pastors and friends who have doctorates in hebrew studies and ancient documents .

2010-07-25 07:31:52 UTC

There is a Bible out there that I am sure you will like. The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. It is a modern translation but not just in English but in hundreds of languages. The translators have worked very hard to get the most accurate translation from the original languages and the oldest copies. In fact the way people translate Yeshua is with the Hebrew text, and Jesus comes from the Latin texts. That is how they get Jehovah and Yahweh. Jehovah is the English version from Latin. If you called Jesus Yeshua all the time you would have to change over anything that began with a J, like Jeremiah or Jerusalem. Look at the New World Translation, it is most accurate and was translated with love unlike the King James Version which has been found to have over 20,000 mistakes. For more information please visit www.watchtower.org.

You can get this Bible I speak of for free from Jehovah's Witnesses, all funds are voluntarily given.

As regards the Bible showing it should never be changed, 1 Peter 1:25: "but the saying of Jehovah endures forever.” Well, this is the “saying,” this which has been declared to YOU as good news."

Galatians 1:8,9: "However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed."

So if anyone added to the Bible or changed it they were to be accursed.

A report published in 1971 shows that there are possibly 6,000 handwritten copies containing all or part of the Hebrew Scriptures; the oldest dates back to the third century B.C.E. Of the Christian Greek Scriptures, there are some 5,000 in Greek, the oldest dating back to the beginning of the second century C.E. There are also many copies of early translations into other languages.

In the introduction to his seven volumes on The Chester Beatty Biblical Papyri, Sir Frederic Kenyon wrote: “The first and most important conclusion derived from the examination of them [the papyri] is the satisfactory one that they confirm the essential soundness of the existing texts. No striking or fundamental variation is shown either in the Old or the New Testament. There are no important omissions or additions of passages, and no variations which affect vital facts or doctrines. The variations of text affect minor matters, such as the order of words or the precise words used . . . But their essential importance is their confirmation, by evidence of an earlier date than was hitherto available, of the integrity of our existing texts.”—(London, 1933), p. 15.

It is true that some translations of the Bible adhere more closely to what is in the original languages than others do. Modern paraphrase Bibles have taken liberties that at times alter the original meaning. Some translators have allowed personal beliefs to color their renderings. But these weaknesses can be identified by comparison of a variety of translations.

With an accurate translation we can truly say “But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.” - (1 John 5:20) We all have an intellectual capacity to understand the scriptures.

2010-07-25 07:34:07 UTC

If the closest thing to the origional bible says that Jesus was God, that he died on the cross, that he drank alcohol, that he said eat the bread and drink the wine? as it represents HIS BLOOD? Christianity goes against GODS REAL TEACHINGS, the bible was destroyed, the origional, we know this because it does not exist today. But alot of what has been altered is blasphemy, God said in the old testiment and in the revelation about those who celebrate the festival of the lamb, those who washed their robes with the blood of the lamb.... but, in the centre, Jesus APPARENTLEY SAYS, a famous christian quote, I am the good shepard, I lay my life down for the lamb.........?? so if he's God? why would he contradict himself in his own book as such? Why are preists not aloud to drink alcohol, and John the baptist did not.. but Jesus did, and my biggest question of all, JOHN 14:15 (Jesus says) When I am gone, I will ask the father, and he will give you ANOTHER MESSENGER, ""HE"", will remind you of my teachings, REMEMBER THIS, AS I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS, BEFORE THE TIME HAS COME...... but christians beleive that Jesus was the last, the final messenger, why? why when he told us this would we ignore Muhammed? when Muhammed just preiched the old testiment, and corrected us where the bible had been corrupt. The Quran is 75% of the Bible, the storys of the prophets, we should not be praising mankind.. Mary or Jesus but God the creator, NO WE DO NOT HAVE TO BELEIVE IN HUMAN SACRIFICE because Jesus said you will die in your sins, if we can put Jesus before God (THAL SHAL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME) then can we kill people also? Christianity is a joke, we dont pray to a prophet but to God of the universe, the one and only God. heres my email hana.lasan@hotmail.com, as i dont come on here always.

2010-07-25 07:35:22 UTC

the bible states that NO MAN needs to teach you IF you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.. You are evidently caught up into something that satan has charted your course to get off the simple truth.Re-focus on what counts.Stop trying to discredit what we have today as the bible for God is in control of everything and He would not allow us to be mislead if we have that broken and contrite Spirit within

?

2010-07-25 07:34:00 UTC

Its not to do with stirring up hate.

God just says through the Bible that these things are sin.

just a few listed in Bible .....homosexuality, witchcraft, lying, cheating, adultery, gossiping, worshipping false Gods , neglecting the poor and orphaned and your own family, ..

There plenty in the Bible from beginning from end you couldn't miss it with translation errors.

You try arguing with God about how He sees sin...Your views versus His. Good Luck!!

?

2010-07-25 07:27:16 UTC

Your learning about spirituality and your going to get confused when you lack spirituality and desire so much from the good book. I have been in study with God since I was born and he came to visit me. I don;t have your problem because I am passed the bible now. I am in heaven learning the spirits and how they manifest on earth.

2010-07-25 07:29:16 UTC

It was probably on that missing first page, right after the bit about all characters being fictional and any similarities to people living or dead being a coincidence and right before the copyright.

Did you know that missing first page was eaten by the missing link? (the chronological issues that this claim raises should be ignored).

big red

2010-07-25 08:11:03 UTC

Protestants stole the Catholic bible and altered it

2010-07-25 07:20:32 UTC

.

My advice:

Sit on the bible and rotate. Get religion by osmosis. Do it at least one hour every day. God bless.

2010-07-25 07:18:29 UTC

the Bible can kiss my behind.