Atheists, does it bother you that there is are some physicists who believe that consciousness exists?

Question

Outside or separate from the brain?
Even a few physicists who are known for more things than even Steven Hawkings? And some of them have complete theories like Roger Penrose and Orch-OR?

If consciousness starts at a quantum level in microtubules then that rules out the brain being the primary source of consciousness which give way to the possibility of a conscious postmortem existence?

Does it scare you that we may continue to exist after death if his theory is true?

What about John Wheelers Delayed choice experiment? Which provides evidence that the collapse of the wave function on sub atomic particles is not due to the machine or device measuring it but more less points to the fact that conscious observation may play an important role in quantum physics? That it's possible that subjective reality could possibly shape objective reality therefore debunking our oh so loved materialist view of reality?

Source = Does the Universe Exist if We're Not Looking? discovermagazine From the June 2002 issue; published online June 1, 2002

Answer 1

"That it's possible that subjective reality could possibly shape objective reality therefore debunking our oh so loved materialist view of reality?"



I don't think you understand what that really means.



Yes, a couple physicists think consciousness starts in microtubules and millions do not. If you believe that why don't you offer up your brain for a little experiment to prove the brain is needed for consciousness. We could start by plucking one brain cell at a time and you could tell us when the light go out for good. Think about it, you need your brain for human consciousness. Yes, info is shared at the quantum level and the brain may be an emergent result of a complex information sharing, but you aren't ever going to be you without your complex brain that allows for the emergence to take place. It takes more than one ant or bee to emerge and act as a single organism as they do in a colony or hive. The difference is the sharing of information across a complex network and that is what the brain does to a much greater degree. Once we understand how emergence works, we won't be so impressed with consciousness.





Edit: "But it still starts at a quantum level."



Everything starts at the quantum level because everything is comprised of those tiny building blocks.

Answer 2

Very interesting. I go back to the old adage that there are no atheists on a death bed. I am astounded by how much science is starting to prove the existence of an intelligent designer for the huge complexity of our physical and chemical make up. For amino acids to spontaneously line up in the proper sequence based on DNA is 10 to the 350th power, and that is in the simplest of cells. So to answer this question, albeit somewhat rhetorical, is...NO they shouldn't be bothered. An atheist is simply not going to change their world view based on a non-atheist posting on a scientific article...unfortunately. I have argued the best of the best from scientist, physicist and biologist supporting the existence of a higher power and even when the science points in that direction, it can't be true simply because they are so intrenched in the non belief of God, that they will cling to their belief over a possibility that would point in another direction.

Answer 3

Its not a bluff. A bluff might want to propose all of us keep in mind that it does exist and not using a body. a lot of people nonetheless communicate with the language and understand many of the recommendations because many of the international is THEIST. history is ruled by technique of them. I examine the article recommendations of an afterlife are little question drawn from the organic prefer to not DIE. we've imaginations, and so hence can arise with 'religious' nonsense as well different issues. i love how that's written though it is going on slightly about lack of life being not some thing. in spite of the undeniable fact that i imagine it shows that cognitive dissonance is extremely consumer-pleasant in our society today. nonetheless examining. wow, i locate it an exciting article delving into the human recommendations. I do see that cognitive dissonance is component of the human dynamic. i imagine the article has plenty an exceptionally reliable valid factors. "truly it’s a lot extra “organic” to imagine them as modern in some obscure, unobservable locale, very a lot residing their lifeless lives.". thanks for pointing this textual content out.

Answer 4

Thats interesting. Consciousness being the product of a physical brain is the primary reason I don't believe the concept of ghosts or Gods are valid.



I'd like to hear his explanation as to why altering the chemistry of the brain will always have a direct effect on consciousness. Why levels of consciousness can be accurately measured by brain scans.



Of course he wouldn't be the first physicst to be epically wrong. It happens to the best of them.



Edit:

Nevermind. After reading his wikipedia page I see that you misinterpreted his theory. He's not arguing that intelligence can exist separate from a physical brain, he's arguing on the details of how a physical brain works.

Answer 5

What does this have to do with being an atheist? I would think that if science could explain consciousness and rule out the existence of a soul or a magical man who lives in the sky being responsible, then that theory would be much more of a threat to theists than to atheists!

Answer 6

Not really, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't know enough about consciousness myself to be able to point out if what they believe is right or wrong but from what I have been told evidence suggests its linked to the brain.



"Does it scare you that we may continue to exist after death"



No. Like many others I would personally like for there to be an afterlife of any kind. I just refuse to delude myself with wishful thinkings and hope that what's most likely isn't real.

Answer 7

Why do you theists always ask if "it" scares us? This seems to be an almost universal theme when addressing the concept of supernatural doubt...



To answer that, no, the possibility of remaining conscious after bodily death is not frightening to me.



It interesting to see that you seem to assume that the simple existence of a small possibility of consciousness after death automatically proves your particular faith.



Even if it is true (though unlikely) that one may have an after death experience, it parameters & conditions are totally unknown. Furthermore there is no evidence or logic to support any form of speculation as to the conditions of ones consciousness after death in the unlikely scenario it is true.

Answer 8

"If consciousness starts at a quantum level in microtubules then that rules out the brain being the primary source of consciousness"



What?

No it doesn't. That doesn't even make sense.

Answer 9

No. Physicists are human, thus are prone to some of the same failings as any other humans. If some fall prey to magical thinking that is hardly surprising. You are essentially engaging in a vague and poorly substantiated argument from authority fallacy, and it is a particularly weak one at that.

Answer 10

"Which provides evidence that the collapse of the wave function on sub atomic particles is not due to the machine or device measuring it but more less points to the fact that conscious observation may play an important role in quantum physics?"



So if they ran the test and didn't know it was being ran nothing would happen?

Answer 11

You are mistaken. There is no consciousness that is known to exist anywhere outside of a living brain. It has nothing to do with atheism nor religion.

Answer 12

Nope, ghosts are real and abide by the laws of physics. but since this is the religious section I suspect that you are pointing to a god. It still does not prove a god.

Answer 13

No, it doesn't bother me. It sounds mildly intriguing, but I can't say I'm familiar with these ideas.

Answer 14

Whats funny is that Einstein and Steven Hawkins actually do believe in God and they always end up believing towards the end of their lives. Science cannot be used to prove or disprove spirit. Thats why its soo hard and frustrating for many scientists trying to explain things. Your trying to figure out what God does and you cant. He gives us bits and pieces, parts of the brain, synapsis, brain waves, patterns, body function, the earth , the planets,,,but you cant do it. I know what it is to separate body from spirit. When you are up in the ceiling looking at your own body it has nothing to do with brain pattern. There is a separate sense of awareness when your spirit leaves your body. When you die you will know what I am talking about. This is coming from someone who has had heart problems, loss of blood after sons birth, blood pressure drop in ER and coming face to face with the one they call God. He gave me a warning and thats all I needed. Give your hearts to Jesus .

Answer 15

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Answer 16

does it bother you that most physicists don't think that?

Answer 17

We continue after death? Oh, SH*T! You mean I have to contend with all this stuff forever?

Answer 18

It doesnt scare me that other people believe stuff I dont, it happens all the time, why would it scare me?

Answer 19

Kid . . . I am atheist cos I have no belief in gods.

I don't care what others believe or why.

~

Answer 20

Microtubules are in brain cells, so that means they are still in the brain.

Answer 21

The world is bound by scientology, what are YOU talking about?

Answer 22

No.