Question:
Why is Western Europe so far ahead of us in the move away from religion?
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Why is Western Europe so far ahead of us in the move away from religion?
41 answers:
twoasonesfl
2008-06-10 07:53:26 UTC
Actually, it isn't religion that they are turning away from, just Christianity.

People have become sick and tired of following the "do as I say, not as I do" crowd that has ruled most of Europe for the better part of the past 2,000 years.

They are tired of the "take it on faith" answers. Instead they are turning to other religions and philosophies.



Americans are, unfortunately, stuck in the middle of the battlefield where Christianity is dug in to make a last stand against more tolerant, more logical belief systems.



Fortunately, unless we become gods ourselves, mankind will always have some kind of theology to follow. It gives us a sense of our place in the universe and a sense of purpose. In the cases of the more tolerant religions, it also gives us a moral compass that we can be properly guided by.



Do not be fooled by the conversion of churches to bowling alleys and such. It has happened before and it will happen again. As societies shift and move across the land, these things will change and others will be built to replace that which they left behind. If it has shown nothing else, history has shown that.



Society moving away from religion, altogether, is not social evolution. It is social collapse.



As a species, we need to feel connected and directed to some higher power or purpose and religion gives us that.



Whether the religion is Wicca, Buddhism, Islam, Taoism, Judaism or even Christianity, in the end, the religion does not matter in the grand scheme of human existence.



We need something higher than ourselves to believe in, to give us purpose; and it will always be that way.



As long as we are human, it will always be that way.



The Europeans are not moving away from religion, just away from dominion monotheism and it's self-contradictions.
2008-06-10 07:38:35 UTC
I assume you are from the United States...



I disagree that Europe is far ahead in 'moving away from religion'. Most people in Europe do not go to church regularly, but to say the church is dying is not really true. People still consider themselves Christian and churches are still packed at Easter and Christmas, just not every week.



I think one of the reasons is that life in Europe is not so tough as in the US. We have social security, free health care, etc. It is not like the States where if you are poor, you tend to be desperate for a way out, and that leads a lot into religion I think. Religion gives them hope, and it can also be good business for some to start churches.



Also European Christianity tends to be less fundamentalist and evangelistic than America. It is more moderate and in most countries in Europe and so there is not the zeal in churchgoers which exists in America often. Most religious Europeans keep their faith to themselves.
Obed (original)
2008-06-10 15:45:00 UTC
What is happening is part of prophecy. Things happen for a purpose.



As a Babylonian king said long ago:



Daniel 4:35

"All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; he does according to His will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth. No one can restrain His hand or say to Him, "What have You done?""



and the prophet:



Isaiah 40:15

Behold, the nations are as a drop in a bucket, and are counted as the small dust on the scales; look, He lifts up the isles as a very little thing.
J o
2008-06-10 07:26:27 UTC
I don't really think the Euro has anything to do with the communist shift away from religion. I think it was Stalin who said "Religion is the opiate for the masses" or something like that. When the soviet union was being created, and communism was spreading throughout the Eastern Europe into the other soviet counties, and into China, there was a shift away from organized religion. It didn't fit into the whole idea of socialism so they did away with it. So think of a world where there are all these religious buildings still standing, what are they going to do with them? They are not going to knock them down, they may take all the religion symbols off the buildings, like the Russian Orthodox crosses or what have you, but they are going to continue to use the buildings. Whether it is good to have a religion in the county or not, I can't say, but that is my take on it.
2008-06-10 07:33:41 UTC
You are right... they have moved away from all the blood theology... and it is a blessing to them even in religious terms because Jesus said this about sacrifice: "I will have mercy, and not sacrifice." Matthew 12:7 Jesus was quoting Hosea 6:6 which seems to be a condemnation of the idea of sacrifice.



So Europe is being blessed by God and by Jesus for finally waking up to the Original Gospel message that Jesus was actually teaching, which is simply to do unto others as you would have them do unto you. For more, click on my avatar.
redrum4008
2008-06-10 07:29:53 UTC
Well, this movement that is all over Europe, isn't happening in Germany. I haven't heard about it at all. And I travel extensively in eastern Europe. I will look into it though. By the way, the euro is over the dollar because of the economy in th US. As soon as they get the nazi's out of the office, I'm sure it will get better. But it is a good thing that the euro is strong.

Peace be with you
David M
2008-06-10 07:29:23 UTC
Several reasons



1) Our population is almost entirely made up of immigrants and their recent descendants. Many of the immigrants were poor and less well educated. They kept their old traditions and faith alive for social cohesion. Since religion is more prevalent among the poor and less educated, we got some of the most religious inhabitants of their original countries.



2) 13% of our population is only a few generations removed from slavery - where religion, again much stronger where it finds opporession, was a necessary if empty comfort and hope for justice and rest. The black population remains more religious than the white to this day.



3) Ironically, the lack of a state church helped. Competition breeds improvement, and the denominations had to increase their ability to gain and retain converts from each other, with no default faith everybody was a member of. Again the difference exists to this day, with far higher prevalence of evangelism even among Xians in the US than Europe



4) New country inferiority complex. Lacking a couple of millennia of empires and explorers and conquests and colonies, Americans have to seek their exceptionalism elsewhere. Some get this vicariously from military pre-eminence or economic hegemony but many also seek American exceptionalism from the false idea of our being a Chritsian nation uniquely founded in the name of and blessed by God.



5) WWI and WWII. Europe fought the whole things, on their soil in large measure. They suffered the bombings and the massive loss of entire generations we avoided. Hard to be too keen on a loving God after 4 years in the Somme trenches.
2008-06-10 07:36:30 UTC
The US was founded by religious fundamentalists and the black and Latino immigrants were also deeply religious and not noted for their intellectual development.. The mixture could not be much different. But progress is being made, though 200 years behind Europe.
2008-06-10 07:40:52 UTC
Europe may soon have a religious awakening and a desire to go back to her Roman Catholic roots. It is necessary for them to do so to fulfill the prophecies about them as the end-time beast power.



America's demise and downfall will mean an ascendency of Europe once again to a postion as a major power in world events. Not necessarily a good thing given the propensity of Europe for starting world wars. Perhaps you don't really know European history very well.



For further study:



http://thetrumpet.com/



http://www.wnponline.org/



http://worldnewsbulletin.com/index.html



http://www.cog21.org/whobeast.html



http://www.cog21.org/site/cog_archives/booklets/The%20Mark%20of%20the%20Beast.htm



Edit: Here is some more food for thought from todays "USA Today" (June 10, 2008)



http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-06-09-Rome_N.htm



Anyone doubt that Europe is returning to her roots? Or have none of you studied history?
Jeme
2008-06-10 08:55:47 UTC
Since 63 AD when Joseph of Arimathea traveled to to Britain on the first Christian mission, quite a bit has transpired in Europe. Since the Middle Ages there have been many atrocities spawned from Europe: Tribal wars, The Crusades, The Inquisition, many wars, European involvement in the slave trade of native African blacks, Lenin/Stalin, persecution of the Jews, Gypsies and Homosexuals/WWII. There has been a darkness over Europe for centuries. Many Christians have seen/felt it during travel in certain areas. The ground seems cursed in many places. Shed blood of innocence has a voice and it cries out, like Abel's blood cried out to God.

(Genesis 4:10)



There was, and still is, a great shame over Europe following the Holocaust and Hitler's rule. (They could have been stopped, but they were only coming for the Jews--at first.) The loss of power and economy during those years during the European recovery period--US occupation... Faith weakened for the majority and for many they totally lost faith. Many who lost faith may have been ashamed to turn back to God. No one really knows what causes a person to NOT go back to God. This was no surprise to God.



Anyone who knows The Bible and understands it is NOT surprised at the continual rapid decline of faith in Europe (both Western and Eastern): post-Christian. God's word tells about this. You call refer to this loss of faith "far along the scale of sociological evolution." Careful because things are often NOT what they seem. Christians recognize the beginnings of apostasy, falling away. [Everything is a matter of perspective.]



2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Amplified Bible)

"Let no one deceive or beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the apostasy comes first [unless the predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians has come], and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, who is the son of doom (of perdition),"



I've lived in Europe and witnessed in a couple of countries how Christianity is becoming a "habit" of going to church rather than for worship. Europe built great churches to impress each other/outdo each other and worshiped the creations more than the Creator. There are still people who are devout Christians and give all glory to God and have hope; these are the ones rallying with foreign evangelists for revival!



After WWII the churches became less and less full of Christians. However, do not sit as empty as you describe. Many Western European churches have been converted into "other houses of worship" by another Abrahamic faith. This has many Europeans apprehensive and afraid because original/ethnic Europeans are FAST becoming the minority--note the scramble to strengthen immigration laws all over Europe since 2001. They opened wide for immigration after WWII but did not bargain for what they got when hoping to rebuild. Yes, you are correct; many are not commercial buildings/real estate--clubs, discos--as you noted. (This could not have happened without the support of the majority: agnostics, atheists, materialists, and nihilists, cultists, etc.)



Christians are not surprised about the falling dollar and know well the value of the Euro. We've been told about this too for 2000 years. Some "Christians" will become afraid and fall away but that is also expected. Those who stand strong in the Lord have no fear. Those who have no God can depend only on themselves. Nothing from nothing leaves nothing.



I'm not "bashing" Europe just stating the truth but it's happening here too but like Europe there are still faithful believers. There always will be even until Christ returns--the faithful remnant church. (Romans 11:5)



Christ is coming back and He's coming back soon and then...



SMACKDOWN! (for Satan and all his "faithful")

(Revelation 20)



Tip: We ain't scared because we don't live by "today's currency exchange" rate. We live by FAITH in God's economy!



[edit]



Doc "I'm Your Huckleberry" Holliday noted that Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world. True and Islam is second, then I believe Buddhism. However, Islam has swept over Europe.



[edit] ************OH SNAP!!!************ I just



spy-balled that "franco" comment. That is SO "sad."



> "The US was founded by religious fundamentalists and the black and Latino immigrants were also deeply religious and not noted for their intellectual development.. The mixture could not be much different. But progress is being made, though 200 years behind Europe."



****Is this type of mentality still alive? Tell me it isn't so... ****

[THAT one must have dropped off somewhere below 70--not sure what else one should expect from someone would print such blatant racial slurs - Duh...]



x
Hera Sent Me
2008-06-10 07:23:50 UTC
World War II.



The things that happened in Europe then made the idea of a personal god who intervenes in the affairs of men absurd to many Europeans.



Where was this god when Auschwitz was churning merrily along? Where was he when babies were tossed alive into fire pits? Why was he inactive when the entire continent was plunged into misery and madness?



If a god exists who did nothing to prevent those horrors, then what sort of raving egomaniac do you have to be to think he cares about you?
meissen97
2008-06-10 07:23:56 UTC
America was founded by people who were too religious for their home countries.
monky_bizzness_2
2008-06-10 07:26:02 UTC
I'm quite sure there are regions in the US that would be on par with the godlessness of various regions of Western Europe.



Been to Vegas lately?
2008-06-10 07:23:38 UTC
They had a head start?



The United States was founded AFTER most of Europe.
[A]byssal
2008-06-10 07:24:13 UTC
Because all their religious whack jobs moved to America about 300 years ago, and we in the USA their descendants.
Free at last
2008-06-10 07:28:59 UTC
Euopeans have always evolved faster socially than we have. I think a lot of it started when they gave up on the whole "We rule the world - empire building" train of thought. They started accepting that "Live and let live" works much better and that really kind of kills the need for religion. That's one hurtle the US needs to jump.
Satanic Panic101
2008-06-10 07:23:37 UTC
Because they got rid of their governments and started over!
a ●theo● ist
2008-06-10 07:25:18 UTC
The USA was kicking Europe's butt in enlightement when it was founded. There has actually been, to borrow their word, some 'backsliding' in the USA. Among other things, I think it has to do with how the USA reacted to the Cold War. The USA spent decades bigging up religion as an alternative to communism.



Europe never bought that.
james o
2008-06-10 07:28:46 UTC
Hmm.



Let me see....



Europe is closing their churches in record numbers (and you seem to think we're not, but I digress), and

The Euro is hammering the dollar, meaning Europe has a stronger economy right now.



Not to put too fine a point on it, but if the USA ever does go down, as you seem to be so gleefully expecting, it will be a short time before western Europe becomes a satellite of Russia and/or Bin Laden. But again, I digress.



Anyhow, you seem to think that this is a good thing.



Phew. Not much to say in response to that.
2008-06-10 07:27:41 UTC
Western Europeans have for many years understood the separation between religious and secular issues. American Christians are much more "puritanical" in their beliefs. Secondly, we in the USA do not value education in the same manner as it is in other countries and tend to be arrogant in our ignorance.
Wolfechu II
2008-06-10 07:46:06 UTC
We've had more practice. We had puritanical members of society centuries ago; our solution was to ship them to places like, well, America.



In fairness, it's not quite the dramatic exodus from churches that you make it out to be. In my hometown, I know of a couple of old church buildings that have been converted into nightclubs, shopping arcades, etc. There's still hundreds that are churches.
Jeff- <3 God <3 people
2008-06-10 07:31:03 UTC
You had me at "sociological evolution".



Here are some random thought that I have on this issue:



1. Is following Jesus cavemanish?

2. Is following Jesus=religion? I don't know that I would say it is a religion, in our cultural sense of the word.

3. Are people being paid to spend their time ministering to others in Europe? I know they are.

4. Is Christianity shrinking in Europe or are the numbers of converts more accurate now? I would say they are more accurate.

5. Christianity is the fastest growing faith in the world right now.

6. If Jesus did rise from the dead then he is the Lord. If Jesus didn't rise from the dead then you are right, Christianity is a caveman, foolish belief system.

7. I agree that many of those church building should be turned into bars or bowling alleys.
theswedishfish710
2008-06-10 07:28:44 UTC
They're far ahead of by almost every other social measurement including freedom. Why not religion?
mt75689
2008-06-10 07:33:11 UTC
It's interesting that you attribute this to " sociological evolution" when the real reason for it is moral and social decay. Currency exchange doesn't offer any proof regarding this subject. Your question is nothing more than a gratuitous swipe at God and all who dare to believe.
C'est Pas Vrai!
2008-06-10 07:28:05 UTC
Well, they had more than their fair share of ridiculously bloody religious wars WELL before the western world was even discovered (and a couple of them right around the time that America was being colonized).



so...sadly...we're probably a couple hundred years of kid-tested, jesus-approved bloodshed away from realizing what most level-headed governments of the world already have (us & the middle-east excluded)...
mn1998
2008-06-10 07:27:40 UTC
One reason is that Europe has a much longer and richer history than U.S. But the main reason is that they have experienced theocracy in the past and we have not, yet. They have had churches run their country and lives and they have learned that is not a wise choice.
2008-06-10 07:30:53 UTC
Because they have evolved so much in the march of civilisation that they have come to the conclusion that's not fair

to exploit the simple-minded with the purpose to make a living

out of their beliefs.
mima
2008-06-10 07:29:01 UTC
Come to Europe and learn something from us, maybe then you'll get many answers on many questions.... ;)))

And maybe you'll stop waiting for religion to solve your dilemmas and create democracy.....
2008-06-10 07:26:52 UTC
The persistence of religion goes hand-in-hand with Americans' general aversion to science. I'm beginning to think Mike Judge wasn't so far off the mark when he made "Idiocracy"....
Andymcj78 (Atheist)
2008-06-10 07:30:44 UTC
Because some guy called Darwin came along and kicked away the foundations of religon and it's been in decline ever since.
2008-06-10 07:28:04 UTC
If you consider the slide down to hell, being advanced, I guess they are. But are they better off? The Euro does have a higher value, inflation is rampant, crime rates are soaring, I'm glad we are not that advanced.
?
2008-06-10 07:26:16 UTC
I would actually say that move puts them behind us. Socialism has taken a strong foothold in Europe so the governments are seen as the answer to problems rather than God. It's sad really..
Jesus_FRK
2008-06-10 07:35:24 UTC
idk why they are. But the irony is that Europe, North America, and Australia, the largest Christian areas in the world, are declining in evangelical christianity, but its growing rapidly in Asia, Africa, and South America. So that seems pretty awesome to me.
2008-06-10 07:46:45 UTC
I've lived in Germany and England for many years and the reason Europe is so far ahead of the USA and most of the rest of the world is because they are so far ahead in education and have governments that are sane as opposed to our currently insane government.



A test of American college graduates with a Bachelor's Degree or equivalent was undertaken and they were all given the French high school exit exams. 70% of American college grads FLUNKED it, meaning an American college education isn't worth a French High School diploma!



And when you get to the Southern USA or the Bible Belt the education is so pathetic it's scarcely worth calling an education. Parents esp. in these areas remove children from public schools [that admittedly suck] and homeschool them or put them in the Christian equivalent of Madrassas, those private church schools where science isn't taught at all and religious indoctrination is given the highest importance. And during the Summer you can attend a Jesus Camp or something like to reinforce what you get at home, in school and in church.



As a child in Louisiana I was forced to attend, on average six religious meetings a week at this ultra fundamentalist church consisting mostly of old people and I hated them. Once I ran away from a night service and ran [age 5] six miles into a rural swampy area near Shreveport, Louisiana where the cops finally found me.



My parents were all sweet and crying and boohooing "Oh, thank God, you found him." but once back at home I got it, but not as bad as my friend who was caught shoplifting [his parents attended the same church". I witnessed in horror as this Snicker bar thief [age 6 or 7] was given his just desserts by an angry mother. His hand was placed over an open flame on a gas stove and roasted. I still remember the smell of burnt flesh and the sound of his screams and his mother saying "You think this is bad, wait until Satan gets you in the lake of fire."



God and religion are separate. There may be a God, but it's clear that religion is a man-made system of lies, nonsense, cruelty, insane laws, horrid attitudes towards sex and the body and ridiculous notions of our origins and purpose of existence, if any.



We'll never know peace and true justice and happiness on this world until religion goes the way of the Dinosaurs into total extinction.



I'm now a pantheist. To me, my higher power is Nature, the MIND, the totality of all things, so God and Nature are the same thing. I have no rituals, need no prayers [they won't be heard anyway], and need nothing, having everything I'll ever need right inside me from the get go, innate.



The God who sits on a throne judging sinners, rewarding the righteous [interpret that as butt kissing sycophants] and punishing the wicked [interpret that as persons who can think for themselves] is repugnant.



I like Jesus and Buddha and Lao Tzu and some of their better ideas. But never will I worship them or hold their ideas any higher than Socrates, Shakespeare, Blake, Plato or any other philosopher or writer of renown.



Like the Deists, to me God needs no revelations, no prophets, no books, no scriptures, and no middlemen--clergy, imams, rabbis to interpret for him. Nature, existence is the revelation, there is no other. And the revelation is God revealing himself, not stupid laws.



Any law that can be broken is not of God, it, even if good and logical like traffic laws designed to promote safe traffic flow, is of man.



Like Nietzsche and Bakunin, I despise the idea that all good resides in God, because by implication that means all evil resides in man, there is no good in us.



Lies, all lies!



At least Swami Vivekananda was on the right track



"You have faith in God? Good. To have faith in yourself is better."



"To call us sinners is a standing libel on the human race."



Do you want something to replace religion, which would improve our education system, our governments, our cultures, our laws? Try SCIENCE for a change.



For all its faults and imperfections, it beats the hell out of religion any day.
 Hippie Chick
2008-06-10 07:24:53 UTC
The only thing America may have a lead in is weapons and a materilistic mind, the rest... technology, sexuality, etc.... we are fall short.
2008-06-10 07:30:39 UTC
Haven't heard about it............



Most of us argued against Christ in order to avoid accountability to the choices we make in life.

If you ignore it, just remember that Jesus said ... "If you deny me before man, I will deny you before my Father in Heaven."



No one has to prove God exists, unbelievers have to prove He doesn't exist.



For someone to say God does not exist that person would have to have absolute knowledge of the entire universe. But, if a person did have absolute knowledge of the entire universe wouldn't that make that person God?



Conclusion: If a person tells you God does not exist. What they are really telling you is they have absolute knowledge of the entire universe and that he/she is, in fact, God.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main....
2008-06-10 07:26:54 UTC
We coverd this a while back. This should help you:



https://answersrip.com/question/index?qid=20080521105459AAdBwM1





.
2008-06-10 07:24:02 UTC
Neocons.
akoypinoy
2008-06-10 07:26:52 UTC
There isn't enough validated data to support your conclusions.
Carlie
2008-06-10 07:23:50 UTC
Because dem hoz are old az hell
2008-06-10 07:23:27 UTC
they've always been barbarians, and this is no exception.


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