once again you are trying to be misleading so I will pick a few things to respond to
1. Jesus and Satan as brothers
1. we believe Jesus is the "only Begotten son" but we do believe all of our spirits were created by heavenly father so we are all his spirit children this includes Satan who was casted out of heaven because a child goes bad doesn't mean they are not your child.
and we are not saying the Satan is on the same Level as our lord Jesus because as I stated before Jesus is the only "Begotten"
2. They believe the Bible, as far as the book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenants and a Pearl of Great Price and their leaders don't contradict it. So they have all sorts of concepts and beliefs that there is absolutely no support for in the Bible.
2. actually we believe the Bible as far as translated correctly ... what is the alternative? having it translated incorrectly? And we believe everything the bible says and disregard nothing although we translated differently then allot of people.
3.There are three major differences between the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Mormon church. Here's what Mormon's believe:
1a. Instead of the eternal Jesus co-equal with the Father, the Mormon Jesus was once a man who achieved godhood by his own virtuousness during a preincarnate existence. His spirit was then impregnated into the virgin Mary by the "Eternal Father" who came from the planet Kolob for the physical union with her.
1a. OK so here is like 4 questions into one but I will address them all first we do not believe God came from a planet called Kolob! And we 2nd no We don't believe in the trinity although we do believe Jesus is the Son of God he is always teaching "in the Bible" that the Glory should go to God not to him so No we do not believe they are equal, OK and this is Odd the statement that we think Jesus was once a Man .... so you don't? also Jesus could Never achieve Godhood without his father and furthermore yes we believe God the father did Make Mary pregnant but not by sexual relations, we believe miracles are a natural occurrence and through heavenly father Jesus the worlds miracle was created!the idea of God as merely the God of this little planet is a silly anti-Mormon caricature that comes right out of the first-grade textbook of the Ed Decker School of Nonsense Polemics.... The real "God of Mormonism" says this about his creation: "worlds without number have I created; and ... by the Son I created them" (Moses 1:33).
2. Mormonism teaches that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers who competed for the opportunity to become the savior of planet earth. Jesus' plan won approval and Lucifer rebelled and became the tempter and deceiver of planet Earth.
2.Yes that is true actually we believe two plans of salvation had been presented to our father in the preexistence Jesus's plan was chosen because he gave Man his own free agency " we believe this life is like a test" and gave all the Glory to his father. we also believe in a Battle in heaven where Satan was CAST OUT and yes rebelled and became the tempter and deceiver of planet Earth.
3. Mormonism teaches that Jesus is only one of many saviors who are each responsible for the salvation of the population of other planets like Earth. Mormon men are working with the promise that they, too, will eventually become gods and be given a planet of their own to populate. This will be accomplished by their intercourse with many wives who will bear millions of spirit children to inhabit the bodies of the people on their planet.
3.OK although yes intercourse would be nice I don't believe it will be needed in heaven to create spirit children... no has there been any doctrine I know of that sates this, this is just an assumption that many anti's make, and Jesus is the only Savior not just one of many!
NOWHERE in LDS scripture and official LDS doctrine (the LDS canon and statements issued by or approved by the First Presidency - not wild remarks attributed so a lone church leader) is any explanation given of how one creates spirit children or where they reside and once again the idea of God as merely the God of this little planet is a silly anti-Mormon caricature that comes right out of the first-grade textbook of the Ed Decker School of Nonsense Polemics.... The real "God of Mormonism" says this about his creation: "worlds without number have I created; and ... by the Son I created them" (Moses 1:33).
4.The Jesus of the Bible taught that salvation is a free gift anyone can receive by accepting Him as your personal Savior, not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Romans 4:6 & 11:6; Philippians 3:9).
4.we agree but we must accept His free gift by following and obeying Him
5.The LDS Jesus taught that your level of exaltation was based on faith plus works determined by men. Thus, the Jesus of the Bible and the LDS Jesus can't be the same Jesus, as they taught mutually exclusive doctrine.
5.no we beileve that your level of exaltation was based on faith plus works determined by GOD
Question: Christians believe they are saved by grace alone. Why do Latter-day Saints think works save them?
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The "grace vs. works" controversy has been raging since Martin Luther's time and perhaps since the era of Peter and Paul. Roman Catholics today tend to believe that salvation requires certain works, while the Protestants' most often-quoted scripture is,
By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast (Eph. 2:8-9).
Where do Latter-day Saints fit in? To correctly understand the answer, we must understand how the word "saved" is used by those who believe they are already saved through grace. As many Protestants have explained to the author, salvation to them means they are saved from hell and automatically guaranteed a spot in heaven, based only on their confession of a belief in Jesus Christ. One of their most popular justifications for such a belief is the alleged "conversion" of the thief on the cross. They believe that if they die at any given moment after they have accepted Jesus Christ, they will be guaranteed everlasting life with Christ in heaven.
Latter-day Saints believe that through Christ's atonement and his resurrection, all will live again, be resurrected and have immortality. As stated in 1 Cor. 15:22, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Let us look at the question again. Do Latter-Day Saints believe we are saved by grace alone? If being saved means being resurrected and thus having immortality, the answer is yes. Immortality comes entirely through the grace of God and His son, Jesus Christ. Such immortality or "saved" condition is automatically received by all mankind, regardless of how we live or whether we profess a belief in Christ.
However, we also believe what the Lord taught in Matt. 19:16-25. In this scripture we have the account of the rich man asking the Lord what he must do to have eternal life. The Lord responded by listing commandments to obey, then told him to sell all he had and follow the Savior. He did not tell him that he need only confess a belief in the Savior. The Lord plainly taught in the Sermon on the Mount that, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven" (Matt. 7:21, 22). Therefore, in order to enter Heaven, one must obtain the grace of God and also do the will of the Father.
The Lord also told Nicodemus (John 3:3-7) two other requirements for salvation: the birth of water (baptism) and of the Spirit (receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost). In Matthew 24:13, the Lord declares that in order to be saved one must also endure to the end. For Latter-day Saints, obtaining salvation is therefore both an event and a process. Most Protestants believe it to be only an event.
If we equate the term "salvation" with the term "eternal life," then we are saved by grace (a gift from God) if we have done God's will, which means being obedient to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. When the ordinances are changed or dismissed as unnecessary by some of our critics, such as in the case of baptism and bestowal of the Gift of the Holy Ghost, eternal life isn't available to such until these ordinances are properly performed, either in person or vicariously. A basic tenet of our faith states, "We believe that through the Atonement [grace] of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience [works] to the laws and ordinances of the gospel."
Perhaps the single best LDS scripture that illustrates our belief in the role of grace as part of the process of being saved is found in 2 Nephi 25:23, where Nephi wrote,
For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
Latter-day Saints should never leave the atonement of Jesus Christ out of any discussion on how we get to heaven. We don't exalt ourselves. We don't save ourselves. We don't pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. Even repentance would have no saving power if Christ had not paid for our sins. As King Benjamin an important Book of Mormon prophet taught, we must "Believe that salvation was, and is, and is to come, in and through the atoning blood of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent" (Mosiah 3:18).
However, once we accept Jesus Christ's atonement, we are under obligation to do his will, which is different from doing the dead works of the Mosaic Law that Paul warned about in Ephesians. If we do Christ's will, we will have eternal life in heaven (the Celestial Kingdom) through his grace.
Although most think that Paul wrote only about being "saved by grace," which he mentions 21 times, he also stressed the importance of good works and deeds over eighty times.
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answ...
1.Mormons of good standing participate in endowment ceremonies in the Mormon temple. Young men have this usually at age 19 before their expected two year mission. Women are usually endowed several days before their wedding. Both men and women recieve their sacred underwear then. Both men and women get a name which serves as sort of a password into celestial heaven. A man can no a wife's password but not vica versa. A husband is supposed to sort of call his wife into heaven, thus he has a degree of power over her.
1.twisting and falsehoods yet again!
2.The endowment ceremony has many many similarities to the Mason ceremony. Not surprisingly the founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith, was a Mason.
2.true it does have many similarities
From what I know, some see Masonry it as a good social opportunity and forum for being more involved in the community or whatever. Others are fascinated by its ancient roots and wish to understand it more deeply. But for most members, now that we have and appreciate the Temple ceremony, joining Masonry doesn't make a lot of sense, in my opinion. But in the early days of the Church, Masonry was a central social organization in American life, and many, many people joined. In fact, in Evidences and Reconciliations, John A. Widstoe noted that one of the reasons for Joseph and other early Church members joining the Masons was the need of the Church to have friends who could help it, especially in light of all the persecutions it had received (p. 357).
I am not aware of anything genuinely evil in Masonry, and those who know it well see it as genuinely good or benign. Local leaders in the Church often quietly discourage joining, but I think the Church has no official position on it (or on hundreds of other organizations). Most of Masonry has nothing to do with the temple, and the parts that do aren't sacrilegious or harmful, as far as I can tell.
Does possible derivation from some aspects of the ancient temple make it offensive? Hugh Nibley writes that many things in our culture appear to have been derived from the ancient temple concept. It could be that drama, music, dance, and maybe even handshakes derive from the Temple. The graduation ceremonies for people finishing college have derivation, perhaps, from the ancient temple - with the use of robes, funny hats, the rite-of-passage concept, discourses and speeches, etc. The fact that there are some similarities and some common ancient roots doesn't make a graduation ceremony evil. It's just hollow and silly, perhaps, compared to the real thing.
http://www.jefflindsay.com/ldsfaq/fq_mas...
The Freemasonry Connection:
The Temple Endowment ceremony is simply a modified version of the Freemasonry ceremony which existed long before Joseph Smith was born. Joseph and Hyrum Smith were both active Masons. Many parts of the Temple Endowment Ceremony (verbiage, handgrips, arm positions, whispering in ear, fig-leaf apron, secret passwords, chanting, etc.) were plagiarized from Freemasonry ceremonies. Joseph Smith introduced the Mormon Temple ceremony within 2 months of becoming a Mason. There were Masons in the mob that killed Joseph as he had his arms raised in the Masonic distress call, "Oh Lord, my God! Is there no help for the poor widow's son?" when he was shot. They had a problem with him plagiarizing the Masonic ceremony in the Mormon Temple ceremony. Please note that neither the Freemasonry ceremony nor the Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony are secret, as all details of both are in the public domain.
•Heber C. Kimball wrote to Parley P. Pratt: "We have organized a Lodge here of Masons ... near 200 have been made Masons. Brother Joseph and Sidney [Rigdon] were the first that were received into the Lodge. All of the twelve have become members except Orson P. [Pratt] ... Brother Joseph says Masonry was taken from the Priesthood, but has become degenerated .... We have the true Masonry." From an underground typewritten copy of Dr. Durham's talk carefully compared with a tape recording thereof and certified to be accurate by Mervin B. Hogan, Secretary of the Masonic Research Lodge of Utah in Salt Lake City, No Help For the Widow's Son, by Reed C. Durham, p. 25.
The story of carved golden plates in an arched stone vault is very similar to an older story from Freemasonry.
The Mormon term "Celestial Kingdom" is disturbingly similar to the older Freemasonry term "Celestial Lodge Above."
The Freemasonry ceremonies are not from Solomon's Temple.
Freemasonry is a religion:
•"Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion, and its teachings are instructions in ... the universal, eternal, immutable religion...." Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, by Albert Pike, Washington D.C., 1958, pp. 213, 219.
•"[Masonry is] ... the custodian and depository (since Enoch) of the great philosophical and religious truths, unknown to the world at large...." Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, by Albert Pike, Washington D.C., 1958, p. 210.
•"Without this religious element it would scarcely be worthy of cultivation by the wise and good...." An Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, by Albert G. Mackey, 1921, pp. 618-619.
Freemasonry's god is a triune deity called JaoBulOn. It is a form of Baal. It's Lucifer worship. Note in the third quotation below that Freemasonry reverses the roles of God and Satan. And remember that Joseph Smith embraced Freemasonry when he plagiarized it for the Mormon Temple ceremony.
•"Masonry, like all the religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls light, from them.... Truth is not for those that are unworthy...." Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, by Albert Pike, Washington D.C., 1958, p 104-105.
•"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court...of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the [lower] Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them." Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, by Albert Pike, Washington D.C., 1958, p. 819.
•God is known as "the nameless one of a hundred names." Henry Wilson Coil, "A Comprehensive View of Freemasonry," Richmond: Macoy Publishing, 1973, p. 192.
•"God is equally present with the pious Hindu in the temple, the Jew in the synagogue, the Mohammedan in the mosque, and the Christian in the church." Albert Mackey, "Mackey's Revised Encyclopedia of Freemasonry," Richmond: Macoy Publishing, 1966, 1:409-410.
Freemasonry is not Christian. If it's not Christian, but it is a religion (which Masons have confirmed above), then it by definition conflicts with Christianity. Thus one can't simultaneously be a Christian and a Mason.
•"Freemasonry is not Christianity ... it admits men of every creed within its hospitable bosom...."An Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, by Albert G. Mackey, 1921, pp. 618-619.
•"[Masonry] ... sees in Moses ... in Confucius and Zoroaster, in Jesus of Nazareth, and in [Mohammed] great teachers of morality and eminent reformers...." Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, by Albert Pike, Washington D.C., 1958, pp. 277, 525.
The LDS Temple Endowment ceremony has been changed many times (basically it's been toned down). (The Christian God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.)
Joseph and Hyrum's Freemasonry Lodge was becoming the largest Freemasonry Lodge in Illinois. The non-LDS Masons in the state felt threatened by the LDS takeover of Masonry. See Evidences and Reconciliations (first edition), by Apostle John A. Widstoe, volume 3, p. 358.
The Mormon garment (underwear) has pagan Freemasonry symbols sewn into it, such as the Until recently being removed from the Mormon Temple ceremony, Temple patrons swore an oath to:
compass and the square.
1. bind themselves to the penalty of having their throats cut from ear to ear
2. bind themselves to the penalty of having their hearts plucked out of their chests
3. bind themselves to the penalty of having their bodies disemboweled.
These three former-Mormon Temple Endowment ceremony oaths were copied directly from Freemasonry ceremonies.
now some of these things are false and some are true it is a mix but addressing these questions has not left me room to address these one at a time so I will leave a page that can do that for me .
http://www.jefflindsay.com/ldsfaq/fq_mas...
2.Bottom line, Mormonism is a cult, a very strange and controlling cult, run like your life depends on it, it does, your eternal life at least.
2. your presenting this as fact... well if we are a cult so is your religon
Classic characteristics of a cult:
1.Cultists believe that all Christian churches are wrong and that their cult has the real truth about God.
1.you mean how you think our church is wrong? very interesting! actually we go out of our way to respect peoples beliefs... uh oh who is in the cult! on no! I would watch it! it sounds like they got you!!!!!
2.Cultists attack the deity of Jesus Christ and either lower him to the level of man or raise man to the level of Christ.
2.we believe Jesus is our savior how is that lowering him to man?No other man could have died for our sins....
3.Cultists deny that man can be saved by faith in Christ alone. They teach that man can make himself right with God by good works and by obeying the teachings of the cult.
3."Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven" (Matt. 7:21, 22). ... so we are cultist for not disregarding things in the bible oh no!
4.Cultists believe the statements of their leaders who claim to have new interpretations of scripture, or valuable indispensable additions to it.
4.The Apostle John records in John 16:12 that the Lord said he had many other things to say, but we couldn't bear them at that time... so once again for following something biblical we are getting persecuted
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answ...
5.Many cults claim to believe the Bible, but they distort its teachings to suit their own particular beliefs about man, God, the Holy Spirit, Heaven, Hell, salvation, and other vital doctrine.
The Mormon church fulfills all 5 of these characteristics of a cult.
5. we could claim the same thing to us your teaching seem quite unbiblical to me
3.Questions to ask about anyone claiming to be a prophet:
Have all of his prophecies come true? Was even one of his prophecies revised to fit what already happened? Does even one of his teachings utilize a small section of the Bible to the neglect of the whole? Does even one of his teachings contradict the God of the Bible? Does even one of his teachings contradict the Jesus of the Bible? Is he or is Christ the focus of his followers? Whose name is heard more often? Do any of his teachings speak negatively about other Christians?
Joseph Smith failed on all 7.
3.For those who have seen allegedly false prophecies of Joseph Smith, keep in mind that most of the statements used to condemn Joseph Smith were written down by someone else and are subject to inaccuracy. My experience with how others quote me has been most frustrating. Even experienced journalists often garble what was actually said. Many alleged false prophecies are just hearsay, and many were never intended as a prophetic statement. If Joseph says, "Gray clouds - looks like rain," and it didn't rain that day, anti-Mormons may howl but Latter-day Saints know that the gift of prophecy does not make every utterance divinely inspired. As Latter-day Saints, we only need to be bound by what has been canonized, not by every alleged saying or even every actual writing of Church leaders. Very few alleged false prophecies are from canonized writings, and I believe that the few apparent exceptions are treated on this page. So if 50 years after Joseph was killed, somebody writes that they remember him talking about men living on the moon, and no one else can verify that claim, it's nothing to be bothered by. And even if Joseph did speculate on something that silly while sitting around a campfire one night, as a mortal he's entitled to silly opinions.
http://www.jefflindsay.com/ldsfaq/fq_pro...
also here is a list of all the "prophecies" she has listed so you can look at them yourself!
1.Joseph Smith claimed he was superior to Jesus Christ:
"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, pp. 408, 409).
1.While we aren't sure this is a completely accurate quote, let us assume that it is. Detractors read into this statement that the Prophet was saying he did a greater work than Jesus Christ. Considering the entire text and the circumstance of the time, he seems to be saying only that he was able to keep the Church together better than others did, including Jesus Christ. Surely Joseph Smith would be the first to agree that keeping a church together is not a greater or a more significant work than what was done by Jesus.
There is nothing as significant as being the God of Israel, taking upon oneself the sins of the world, dying for all mankind that they might live, nor being resurrected. Surely, everlasting life is the greatest gift anyone could give.
Nevertheless, the Lord himself said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father" (John 14:12). To what greater work could the Savior be referring? Perhaps the Lord means a larger work, but certainly not more significant. For example, John the Baptist presumably baptized more people than Jesus, Paul may have converted more as a missionary, Moses led more Israelites out of bondage, Noah built a bigger ship, and Joseph Smith kept the Church together longer.
The point should be clear: if greater means quantity, there are many who fulfilled the Savior's promise that his followers would do "greater works," and this includes Joseph Smith.
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answ...
2.Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: 17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
2. I agree and just to let you know you uh left a few things out
12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.
13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers;
14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord.
15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
20 My son, keep thy father’s commandment, and forsake not the law of thy mother:
21 Bind them continually upon thine heart, and tie them about thy neck.
22 When thou goest, it shall lead thee; when thou sleepest, it shall keep thee; and when thou awakest, it shall talk with thee.
23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
hmmmm telling lies and trying to decieve that sounds like ... well you! as nobel as you think you are trying to be mixing some lies with some truth hoping no one will notice is what I think the Lord is talking about in verse 19
More Errors:
Described below is a summary of some of the gross errors of Mormonism as presented in the new book, Latter Days, by Coke Newell, a prominent church spokesman.
1. Tempting God.From the beginning the Mormons have been taught to tempt God by their namesake Moroni. He tells potential proselytes to "Ask if these things (Mormon teachings) are true and He (God) will manifest the truth unto you by the Holy Spirit." The meaning is clear that God will confirm the veracity of these teachings. This outcome IS experienced by those who without repentance towards God and Christ ask, seeking a sign. They certainly do get a confirmation from the spirit world, but from the powers of darkness and not God as they think.
1.The Bible teaches that one cannot know that Jesus is the Lord without the Holy Ghost (1 Cor. 12:3), which works on the heart and guides us into all truth (John 16:13).It's amazing how often anti-Mormons beg people NOT to pray about the message of the restored Gospel, and our other testament of Jesus Christ (Moroni 10:3-5) doesn't simply say to pray about the Book, but to ponder it, to study it, and then with faith in Christ to seek divine understanding of it through the power of the Holy Ghost to say that we are "tempting God is an attempt to discredit not only LDS teachings but teachings of the Bible as well! we all know who it is who does not want us to pray... I will give you a hint it is not heavenly father and it is not Jesus or the Holy Spirit
2.Now, hear what Jesus says to those who want to know where a doctrine (message) comes from, when He was questioned concerning His teachings "If any man will DO HIS WILL, he shall know of this doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
2.If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself. (John 7:17)
Likewise, in John 8:31 and 32, He taught that following His teachings would result in a knowledge of truth:
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Christ taught that knowledge - real knowledge of truth - is discerned through the Spirit of God. To Peter, who could declare that Jesus was the Christ, Christ said that it was not flesh and blood but God the Father that had revealed this knowledge to him (Matt. 16: 15-17). This is much like the experience of Elijah in 1 Kings 19: 11-12. Here the Lord showed Elijah some mighty tangible manifestations: a great wind, an earthquake, a fire, but revelation from the Lord did not come through any of these, though they provided powerful input to the normal mortal senses. Instead, after all that, there came a "still small voice," soft, mild, but carrying revelation from God that provides true knowledge (my interpretation).
It is the manifestation of the Spirit - the Holy Ghost - that lets us know what mortal senses alone are inadequate to convey: that God lives and that Jesus Christ is the true Messiah. In John 14:26 and 15:26, Christ spoke of this "Comforter" which would teach us and would bear witness of Him.
I Corinthians 2: 9-11 teaches us that the things of God may be beyond our database of past experiences ("eye hath not seen nor ear heard"), but the things of God are revealed to us by his Spirit. My experience is that the knowledge God grants - rare though it may be - is as clear and as reliable as any form of sensory input - indeed, much more reliable. Experimentation with prayer - reaching out and learning that there is a Being who wishes to touch us - is how I learned for myself that God exists. It was experimental - and the result was knowledge, not blind faith. Ah, yes, the challenge: discerning the Spirit of God from other sources such as our own desires. The key is to know Him and to learn to know His voice as the sheep know the shepherd. That's another lecture - and I'm not the one to give it. But He lives! - I can say that. (But there's still a whole lot I don't know, don't do, don't understand, or misunderstand - if I'm not mistaken.)
"You shall not tempt the Lord your God...you shall diligently KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the Lord your God (Deut. 616, 17).
we do nothing to tempt him that was a twist of your words meant to deceive!
2. No Original Sin
All one needs to do is read the 5th chapter of Romans and I Corinthians 1521-23. I do not know what others mean by "original sin" but as Mr. Newell explains, in Mormon doctrine there is complete denial of the heredity that Adam passed on to the world. He also points out that Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormons, changed the Bible considerably in his translation. So read a King James or Amplified translation of the above-mentioned scriptures to get their intended meaning.
2.In LDS doctrine, free will is a vital gift from God - but a dangerous gift that makes evil possible. God wants all of us to be saved, but does not force us to accept Him. We must choose. Infants are free from guilt and are saved in the glories of heaven if they die before becoming accountable. In fact, they're precious, clean, and cute, not "odious." The Fall of Adam affects us all in bringing spiritual death (sin) and temporal death (which can be understood as physical death or, in what may be a preferred interpretation, our physical separation from God here in mortality--see "The Earth and Man" by James Talmage). But we are accountable for our own actions, not for Adam's.
3. Law is finished
In the Mormon testimony the law is spoken of as being finished. The law is not finished. Those who are the Lord's have the old man crucified who could not fulfill the law so that the new man created in Christ could. Jesus came not to do away with but to fulfill. The ceremonial law is finished, being a shadow of the work of Christ now come in the flesh. The Mormon doctrine does not distinguish at all; it just scraps the whole thing. How cavalier, how pompous and presumptuous. And the bolder men get in telling lies the more they are believed.
3.not all will return to dwell with Christ and the Father as heirs of eternal life. To receive that gift, we must meet the conditions that Christ has set. He asks us to have faith in Him, to repent of our sins, to be baptized in His name, and to follow Him throughout out lives, for "he that endures to the end shall be saved" (Matt. 24:13). Can we follow Him if we don't strive to keep His commandments? In fact, He said, "If thou wilt enter into life, keep my commandments" (Matt. 26:16). All men are saved from death by virtue of the Resurrection, a free gift to all. Only those who have faith in Christ and follow Him are saved from spiritual death, which is being cut off from the presence of God because of our sins.
4. Jesus didn't preach to the wicked after the Crucifixion.
He did. See 1 Peter 3.
"The power of salvation, Paul says, is not in the cross, "as fundamentalist evangelists have claimed", but in the resurrection"
I would also suggest everyone read How Anti-Mormons Play Word Games to Attack the Latter-day Saints, Aspen Books, Salt Lake City, UT, 1992, p. 132).
5. Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three different beings.
The scriptures are very clear, there is only one God, Who is the Father of all, came in the flesh (the Son) and sent His Spirit (Holy Ghost) to indwell His people.
5.As a reminder, the creeds from the Council of Nicaea and the related Council of Chalcedon were theological, philosophical statements developed in the fourth century A.D. amid intense debate about the nature of God. Influenced heavily by Greek philosophy (Neo-Platonism), these creeds teach the concept of an abstract, transcendent, "consubstantial" unity in trinity, one in three, coequal, existing incomprehensibly without body, parts, or passions, wholly other and outside space and time as we know it.
Source(s):
a.Seventeen Little Known Facts About the Mormon Religion:
a.Actually your little know facts are well know allegations!
b.The following facts represent teachings that are either openly taught in the Mormon Church today, or that have been taught by the highest authorities of the Mormon Church. All quotes given are from official LDS publications or the Bible.
b. all hold you to that... I would feel more comfortable with it if you said and hasn't been taken out of context
FACT #1. The Mormon Church teaches ALL other Churches are WRONG; ALL their creeds are an ABOMINATION in the sight of God; and ALL their teachers are CORRUPT. One of the Mormon Books of Scripture, The Pearl of Great Price, says this about non-LDS churches: "...they were ALL WRONG; and the Personage who addressed me said that ALL their creeds were an ABOMINATION in his sight; that those professors were ALL CORRUPT;. . ." (Joseph Smith, 2:19)
1.It is taught that although all religions have some truth to them that the LDS church is the most uncorrupted yes! why are you in your religion? with all of your lies and twists of words you obviously feel the same of people who do not believe the same things as you do you not?Just about every religion thinks their teachings are correct do they not?
FACT #2. Mormonism teaches there is no salvation outside the Mormon Church and no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. Apostle Bruce R. McConkie makes this statement: "If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation.
2.I beileve that God choose joseph when he did for a reason but if it wasn't josheph it would have been someone else, I think God choose the Time period he did for a reason
3.There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." (Mormon Doctrine, p.670) The Bible, on the other hand, teaches salvation is in Jesus alone; "Neither is there salvation in any other [Jesus]: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)
3.as stated above I agree I don't think their is any chance to get to the kingdom of God without the Jesus taught in the bible not the one taught in the creeds
FACT #3. Mormons are taught to doubt the reliability of the Bible and their leaders have consistently attacked its accuracy.
3.We are taught to love the bible and its words... yet again a twist of words by you or your anti sites
4.Joseph Smith claimed: "... it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of men, had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.10)
4.they have found this to be true do you watch the discovery channel! When you say the bible is without error which one and how do you know?
the Bible answers this attack: "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever." (Isaiah 40:8)
4.so now you think your a prophet in telling us what "you think" is meant by this? there are many ways this is interrupted but bit yours I think is one of the more interesting We do know the word of our God shall stand forever and we are trying to make sure of it and not let people be decieved by the falsehoods being preached especially about The LDS church.
FACT #4. A basic tenant in Mormonism today is that Jesus Christ is the brother of Satan. Milton R. Hunter explains it like this: "The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer,. . .this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind." (The Gospel Through The Ages, p.15) Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that Lucifer attempted to become the Savior: In fact, Jesus created Satan, so they can't be brothers.
4. you got yourself into this not me I am just pointing something out so... God created Jesus so that would mean Jesus can not be his son in Your Logic which by the way I do not buy also that only applies if you beileve in the creeds, you see as you pointed out we do not beileve Jesus to be our heavenly father but our savior and the son of GOD.
Colossians 1:16 indicates that Jesus created "all things," whether "in heaven," or "in earth, visible or invisible."
addressed above but to add to it
Even though Greek philosophy was strongly affecting the mainstream Christian view of God in the third century when this dialogue apparently was written, Origen is still able to use language fairly consistent with the LDS view, language that would be rejected in the later Athanasian Creed. Origen recognizes that Christ is God and the Father is God and the two are distinct, making, in one sense, TWO GODS (something the Athanasian Creed expressly denies). But yet they are one God, and the issue is understanding in WHAT SENSE they are one. I do not mean to say that Origen subscribed to the LDS view, for he was clearly influenced by Greek philosophy on several critical issues in that age when Apostolic guidance by revelation had been lost. But it's clear that he recognized that in at least one logical sense, the Father and Christ are two Gods, yet in another sense, one. We definitely believe in Christ as God, the Father as God, and the Holy Ghost as God. Accepting that is not necessarily the same as accepting the metaphysical doctrines of the Trinity. We believe in the unified Godhead, the One Eternal God of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as three distinct Beings. That position seems much more in harmony with the writings of the Bible than, say, the Athanasian Creed.
FACT #5. Mormonism continues to teach that God the Father is a glorified, resurrected Man, and men and women may become Gods and Goddesses.
5.Let me answer with a question: Was Christ once man like us? Did Christ have a Heavenly Father whom He could call His God just as we can call Heavenly Father our God? Is Christ God? And can the glorified, resurrected Christ properly be called "perfect man," as he was called by the early Christian father Ignatius Of course, we believe that God and Christ are separate individuals, one in purpose, heart, and mind. But, in the spirit of pure speculation, let me ask if it is possible that Christ, during His mission on the earth, was doing that which He had seen the Father do? In John 5:19, Christ said "The Son can do nothing, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie makes this claim: "God himself, the Father of us all, is a glorified, exalted, immortal, resurrected Man!" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 643) Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism taught: "...you have to learn how to be Gods ourselves...the same as all Gods have done before you,..." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 346) The Lord Himself answers this teachings by pronouncing: "...I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6)
in Isaiah 44:6-8, we have the Lord, Jehovah, declaring that He is the first and the last, just as Jesus would later say (Rev. 1:8, 11; 21:6; 22:13). The LDS view is that Jesus was known as Jehovah prior to His mortal ministry, though the term Jehovah can also apply to the Father. Related passages in Isaiah include Is. 45:21 and 43:11, from which we learn that Jehovah is a Savior - indeed, the only Savior. The Savior, of course, is Jesus Christ - also known as Jehovah ("Lord") in Isaiah. Whether it is Jesus or the Father declaring that there is no God "beside" Him, this statement cannot possibly exclude the other as being divine. And when God says that He knows no other God, it can't mean that the Father doesn't know Jesus and vice versa. For logic and consistency, we have to interpret Is. 44 and related passages in a way that does not exclude other members of the Godhead. Otherwise, we are left with a Godhead of one person and one being, which is the doctrine of modalism that was rejected by the creeds (though mistakenly accepted by many Christians today in an attempt to explain the Trinity). That's right it was rejected by the creeds !
FACT #6. Mormons consider Polygamy a righteous principle which will be practiced in heaven. Although there is nothing in the Bible that will support this thinking, current Mormon Scripture has this to say: "...if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no adultery. . . . And if he have TEN VIRGINS given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery. . . ." (Doctrine and Covenants 132:61,62)
we believe with the nature of man there will be more worthy women then men with that being said LDS do believe that families are eternal, but makes no stipulation that such families must be polygamous
FACT #7. Mormons today believe God the Father is married and past leaders have taught both God the Father and Jesus Christ are polygamists. Christian dispensation. . . .God the Father had a plurality of wives....the Son followed the example of his Father....both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time;..." (The Seer, p. 172) Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that God the Father and Jesus Christ are married or polygamists.
IN short what kind of publication was the seer again??? yeah sure he did ;) The Seer was published in Washington, DC, by Orson Pratt, and he used the publication to provide a printed pulpit for his "own" ideas and "pet speculations". It was never considered official LDS doctrine, nor was it ever published by or endorsed by the Church! I thought you were using church doctrine... that is very misleading! added: Elder B.H. Roberts wrote the following in response to those in his day who were heralding the writings of The Seer as representative of official LDS doctrine:
The Seer, by formal action of the First Presidency and Twelve Apostles of the Church was repudiated, and Elder Orson Pratt himself sanctioned the repudiation. There was a long article published in the Deseret News on the 23rd of August, 1865, over the signatures of the First Presidency and Twelve setting forth that this work--the Seer--together with some other writings of Elder Pratt, were inaccurate. In the course of that document, after praising, as well they might, the great bulk of the work of this noted apostle, they say: "But the Seer, the Great First Cause, the article in the Millennial Star, of Oct. 15, and Nov. 1, 1850 contains doctrine which we cannot sanction and which we have felt to disown, so that the Saints who now live, and who may live hereafter, may not be misled by our silence, or be left to misinterpret it. Where these objectionable works or harts of works are bound in volumes, or otherwise, they should be cut out and destroyed."1
The next time you see an anti-Mormon argument, look carefully at what they cite as the sources, if any. There is a good chance their sources will be from The Seer. Interestingly, they almost never use official sources of LDS doctrine to level their accusations.
FACT #8. The majority of the activity in the Mormon Temples is work done in behalf of the DEAD. Joseph Smith offers this explanation: "The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us is to seek after our DEAD." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 356). Although many Mormons are attempting to save their dead relatives, the Bible indicates: "None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him." (Psalms 49:7)
if you read the whole chapter it is talking about the person who is trying to redeem
4 I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.
5 Wherefore should I fear in the days of evil, when the iniquity of my heels shall compass me about?
6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches;
7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:
we believe that in the New testament Jesus spoke of the importance of baptism
FACT #9. To the Mormon, the ultimate test that Mormonism is true is an "inner feeling." Mormons often refer to this feeling as a "burning in the bosom." They believe their scripture (Doctrine and Covenants 9:8) gives the best test for determining truth. This test reads: ". . .study it out in your mind; then you must ask me [the Lord] if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall FEEL that it is right." The Bible, on the other hand, tell us: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needed not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (II Timothy 2:15) this is already addressed above
This is not merely a burning or a feeling, but a powerful experience or spiritual process that imparts KNOWLEDGE and enlightenment and strength. Few Christians in the Bible were converted by intellectual reasoning, but many were moved by the power of God to know with surety what might have been unknowable by logic alone. The God Makers urges people - begs people - NOT TO PRAY to know about the truthfulness of the restored Gospel of Christ. Can you guess who it is that desires, above all else, that people should not pray but (proudly) rely on their own minds alone?
FACT #10. Mormon leaders demand total obedience regardless whether they are right or wrong. The ward teacher's message for June, 1945, stated: "When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God." (Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354) Herber C. Kimball, First Councilor to Brigham Young, clarifies further: "But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it. None of your business whether it is right or wrong." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.32) The Bible warns us in I John 4:1: "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
And once again False we are told to pray!
FACT #11. Mormon leaders have consistently attacked the Biblical doctrine of Salvation by God's Grace through Faith alone. In Apostle James Talmage's book, The Articles of Faith, twice he refers to justification by Faith alone as a "pernicious doctrine," and further declares: "The Sectarian Dogma of Justification by Faith Alone has exercised an influence for evil." (pp. 107,480) The Bible responds: "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
once again this was already addressed!
FACT #12. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie has warned his people against a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus. McConkie made these shocking statements at a speech given at BYU. "...gaining a special, personal relationship with Christ that is both improper and perilous. . . . Now, I know that some may be offended and the counsel that they should not strive for a special and personal relationship with Christ. . . .But you been warned, and you have heard the true doctrine taught." (Church News, week ending March 20, 1982, p.5) In opposition to this, Jesus gives us a personal invitation: "Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28)
That was not said! But I actually am impressed at the way you twisted and turned words in order to make them look like such, we are encouraged to have a personal relationship with Christ
13,14,15,16, and 17
Already addressed above
FACT #17. Joseph Smith taught the moon was inhabited by people who dressed like Quakers and lived to be about 1000 years old. In the Mormon publication, The Young Woman's Journal, pp. 263 & 264, O.B. Huntington gives this interesting information: "As far back as 1837, I know that he [Joseph Smith] said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do -- that they live generally to near the age of 1000 years. He [Smith] described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style." Now that man has walked on the Moon, there can be no doubt that there aren't any 6 foot tall Quakers roaming its surface.
The idea that Joseph taught the moon is inhabited comes from the writing of Oliver B. Huntington in 1881 (his journal) and in 1892 (the Young Woman's Journal). Huntington claimed that Joseph Smith's father had given him a patriarchal blessing in 1837 which promised that he would preach the gospel to the moon inhabitants.
Close examination reveals that Huntington was only ten years old when he was given this blessing and that his recollections were made over fifty years later. Also, it turns out that the blessing was given by his own father, not Joseph Smith's father.
According to a copy of the blessing in the Church archives (Blessing Book, vol.9, pp.294-95), it was only one of many given the same day at the same meeting, and none were recorded in detail at the time. Orson Pratt took sketchy notes as the blessings were given, then filled in details later by consulting those who were there. An examination of the blessing shows that the recorded blessing was much more vague than Huntington remembered.
It also appears that Huntington may have picked up on a rumor that Joseph Smith had given a description of the inhabitants of the moon. This description, which Huntington recorded in his journal, is the original source of the anti-Mormon claim that Joseph described the moon inhabitants. Because his journal is also cited in a Young Woman's publication of the Church, it supposedly gives more credibility to the critics. The statement, which appeared in a two-page article by Oliver B. Huntington entitled "The Inhabitants of the Moon" in the Young Woman's Journal, is as follows:
As far back as 1837, I know that he [Joseph SmithJ said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we d~that they live generally to near the age of a 1,000 years.
He described the men as averaging nearly six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style (Young Woman's Journal, Vol.3, p.263).
From what is quoted here, the most we can conclude is that 0. B. Huntington was familiar with rumors of statements that were attributed to Joseph Smith. However, there is nothing in the writings of Joseph Smith or those who recorded his words prior to his death that even hints of any these views about inhabitants on the moon. This earliest recollection was recorded in 1881, 37 years after the prophet's death.
Even if it turned out that the prophet held these views, nowhere does scripture suggest that a prophet is not allowed to speculate about things that haven't been revealed. Many people during the Nineteenth Century, both the learned and not-so-learned, were speculating on this subject. Joseph Smith's personal opinions and what he taught as revealed doctrine, however, are two entirely different things. The idea that he taught it as a revealed doctrine is based upon Oliver B. Huntington's fifty-year-old, correct or incorrect memory of his blessing, and a rumor that was current in 1881.
Another aspect of the matter needs to be considered. At the present time, man has no scientific or revealed knowledge of whether or not there are inhabitants on the earth's moon. The fact that a handful of astronauts didn't see any inhabitants in the tiny area they viewed when they landed on the moon decades ago certainly gives no definitive information, any more than visitors to earth who might land in barren Death Valley would have any idea of the billions of inhabitants elsewhere.
John the Revelator "saw an angel standing in the sun" (Rev. 19:17). Perhaps we have much to learn about inhabitants of other heavenly spheres.
Matt 24:23-25, New Living Translation: "Then if anyone tells you, `Look, here is the Messiah,' or `There he is,' don't pay any attention. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great miraculous signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones. See, I have warned you."
I agree
Mormons believe that God had sex with Mary:
That is BS! I know as a former Anti -LDS that it is a load!
Mormons believe that God had sex with Mary. Most Mormons have no idea about this obscure teaching. They change the definition of the word virgin. Mormons feel that they can still use the phrase "virgin birth" because God was an immortal being who had sex with Mary.
once again we do not believe that!
(He was not a mere mortal man.) This is exactly what Bruce R. McConkie, (a leading LDS theologian who died in 1985) said: "For our present purposes, suffice it to say that our Lord was born of a virgin, which is fitting and proper, and also natural, since the Father of the Child was an immortal Being" (The Promised Messiah, p. 466). In other words, if Joseph had sex with Mary she would not have been a virgin, but since God had sex with Mary, she remains a virgin.
what? how did you come to that conclusion? actually what he is saying is the miricles from God are natural
Polygamy...
already addressed!
jeniferami: No matter How much the LDS church tries to Christianize their gospel...
There are teachings of Mormonism which separate it forever from Christianity and the Holy Bible.
Specifically, Mormonism teachings include:
•That God the Father has a body of flesh and bones and was once a sinful man on another planet.
•That God lives with many goddess wives on a planet near the great star Kolob.
•That Polygamy is part of God’s holy ordinances.
•That Jesus Christ is the brother of Lucifer, the Devil. Jesus had to work out his own salvation.
•That the doctrines of their inspired leaders are superior to the Bible.
•That "there are more gods than there are particles on a million earths"
•That men can become gods themselves by joining the Mormon church and will be able to create and populate their own earths.
•That the shed blood of Christ is not sufficient to save us from our sins, that it only gives us resurrection so we may be judged for our works; that men cannot be saved by grace through faith, but only by our works of righteousness.
•That the Mormon Church is the only true church on earth, to the exclusion of all others. It has the only true authority.
•That there are two churches only, The church of the Lamb [Mormonism] and the church of the Devil [the rest of us].
•That man cannot gain eternal life and enter the presence of the Lord outside of Mormonism.
you already addressed all of these things above and we don't need to try to Christianize our teachings concidering we follow christ