I have a question about the concept of Original Sin I would like to ask all of R&S?

Question

I was raised Catholic & was very devout as a child. Yet around 12 or 13 I began to have questions & the answers I received from the Official line of thought just did not match my Truth Sense. The question of exactly what was original sin & how could I have been born full of sin was the question that at 15 caused my separation with that belief system. Lately I have been going down memory lane taking yet another look.
Is it possible that IF there is anything that could be considered the Original Error, ( I dislike the word sin), could it be the collective decision to sleep?
In the Christian Bible it states that Adam feel into a deep sleep, no where does it say he ever woke up. I am open, it is a thought that came to me but I wondered what others might think.

So restated, Is it possible that IF there is anything that could be considered the Original Error, could it be the collective decision to sleep?
Please be nice I realize this is a passionate topic to many.
Thank you for answering!
Peace & Blessings to all!

Answer 1

Is it possible that man has forgotten the "One" that is sinless?



Should man not focus on the "One" that is without sin (the "One" that is without error)?



Is realizing the "One" that is without sin (error), possibly the duty of all those that have taken human form.



Out of the concept of sin springs forth "Guilt".

"Guilt" is the original culprit.

"Guilt" takes form, out of the shadows.

That which has form casts shadows.

That which has no form, casts no shadows.

In turn, shadows are a form of separation from that which casts no shadows.



The separation gap 'soon' must be narrowed!

One must always strive toward "Unity".

Within "Unity" there is, no error.







Could original error have been caused through forgetfulness (a form of sleep)?

May humanity awaken 'soon', from its seemingly endless slumber.

Answer 2

I believe in God and love Jesus, but I don't think that I have to believe the Adam and Eve story as factual in order to be honorable to my spiritual and religious beliefs. Every culture has a creation story, and, like it or not, that's the one we get, and everybody's familiar with it. We are also told that Jesus died for our sins, so that could be interpreted to mean that Jesus "picked up the tab" for all of us, and any sin we commit from that point on is our responsibility. I get it that some people totally reject the entire concept of sin, and that's a whole other topic. By me, sin does exist, and we have sinned when we have done some that's not in our own best interests or the interests of our fellow human beings. We also all have the capacity to forgive ourselves and others, and if we truly do that, it's like we are back to having a clean slate. This is a big question, and I'm glad you asked it. Best wishes!

Answer 3

The reference to Adams "deep sleep" was in Genesis 2:21 "So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh."



The doctrine of Original Sin was developed by Augustine about 400 years after Jesus.



It wasn't a doctrine in the Church for the first 400 years.



It is taught only in the Roman Catholic Church and those protestant churches that split off from them in the 16th Century.

Answer 4

About sin, I only know the following :-



(1) Feeling weak is a sin; feeling strong is a virtue;



(2) Be good and do good. Doing good is a virtue. Doing bad is sin.



(3) Qualitatively show improvement towards perfection. This is virtue. Otherwise it is sin.



(4) Always help. This is virtue. Do not harm or hurt. These are sins.



(5) Know how to discriminate between good and bad and align yourself with good. This virtue; otherwise it is sin.



(6) Have right perception or clarity of understanding. This is virtue, otherwise it is sin.



(7) Identify yourself with truth, peace and happiness. This is virtue; otherwise it is sin.



(8) Always try to unite moral and spiritual forces. This is virtue. If you divide moral and intellectual forces, it is sin.

Answer 5

You have some great answers here. I think you are on the right track. Just keep open and look at everything.



Every time you fall asleep do you make a decision to do so, or do you just fall asleep? Is the mind with it's decision making, goal setting and all of it's doing all that you are?

Answer 6

The "Original Error" was about the 'first disobedience' our 'first parents' encountered with God. The eating of apple may be metaphoric and may represent the opening of conscious mind to carnal awareness,.. because it was after that that they saw their own nudity the first time, and got shamed by it.



As they got driven out of Eden as punishment, everyone born has to bear the chop of 'Original Error' as we are all descendants of Adam and Eve. (because without man and wife going into the same "error" (process of mating), no child shall be born).

But like 'other errors', this one, we innocently have inherited by no choice, is reversible, amendable, pardonable. It is only there to remind us that we are ALL born -- the same... Such that NO ONE can brag that he is born above anyone. Neither can one say he is perfect among others because of his race, color, or choice of religion. We are all parts of an erred tree...We all got marked at one time.



By following the laws of God, we receive HIS blessings. By genuinely asking forgiveness, we receive pardon. By living HIS WORDS, the chop of "Original Error" is dissolved from our I.D.'s.

Answer 7

in terms of the story, the original misunderstanding was;

adam and eve fell from grace.

they never fell from grace, but they believed they had fallen.

that belief is the original misunderstanding.



on a more personal note:

have you ever had a great relationship which ended due to many misunderstandings and many actions resulting from those misunderstandings?

what was the original misunderstanding in which everything seemed to go downhill from there?



anyways:

adam did wake up.

christ was the 2nd adam.



again, anyways:

the sleep you mention is not the same sleep you're thinking of.

but:

to sleep, perchance to dream is not an error.

that sense of separation happened for good reason.



the king who pretends to be a poor man for a day learns little.

although he eats the poor man's food and wears the poor man's clothes, he knows he has his cozy kingdom to return to.



the "forgetting" happens for good reason.

Answer 8

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to be rude to many of the christian types here. The story of Original Sin is one of the more subtle scams that christianity forces its people to accept. What it comes down to is that original sin is the hubris of attempting to think for yourself, and the only cure for it is to join their religion. When you pull away all of the distracting symbolism, that's what you wind up with.



I can't help but believe that the hubris is on the part of the church(es) it(their)self.

Answer 9

The deep sleep that was put on Adam, was so God could make Eve, and he did wake up from it. (Technically, that means that Eve is Adam's clone, sharing his D.N.A.)

Original Sin (sorry) comes from the knowledge of good and evil. It means we are born with free will, to choose to do good or not to. When we turn ourselves away from God, that is evil. But, if we choose to do nothing, neither good or evil, we are still not in accordance with Gods plan, to grow closer to Him.

Only, when we choose to do Gods will, and not our own, are we on the path of righteousness for His sake.

On a side note, isn't it funny, that when God first made man, he made a woman too? But she refused to be subject under man, being his equel, so she left him.

Her name was Lilith.

You won't find her in the Bible, but she is in the Hebrew Kabbalah.

Answer 10

Error makes so much more sense doesn't it?



The idea of a God so inept that it could not have made every soul perfect seems a bit silly.



A God that would do this on purpose is scandalous. Perhaps our dear brother who gave us the course to guide our way was a bit tired of religion giving God a bad rap.



Love and blessings Don

Answer 11

I do believe that original sin was the introduction to the conception that something is inherently wrong with our perfectly constructed nature. Man designed a personality of God, based on his relationship and interactions with direct and anecdotal experience. A God that is purely perfect, adorned with an affectionate personality, conjoined with an infrangible special, adoring, affinity towards his conscious creations would never, and could never, be pointed at, for the difficulties and horrific, savage, deviating designs of human nature.



The fall was the counterpart to God, where some very elaborate mythological creatures and stories evolved, and this was inevitably stitched into the experience of mankind through the symbolic Adam and Eve; who represented the dawn of our existence. It was far easier to staple mankind with his self-induced destruction, through his thirst for knowledge, which would exonerate God from the potential conceptions that people would formulate about the things that they perceive as being bad in this world. This keeps this version of God clean and pure so that his adherents can identify with his pure love without struggling with conceptions about the causes of life's ill's. Bless you.



I do believe in my own conceptions of source power, but I also respect those who follow a system of beliefs. The above is just my view of how I see this area of thinking, I'm not here to deliberately devalue what others may believe and hope that others can respect this as being my personal view. Bless You!

Answer 12

In an interview entitled "Aliens Are My Brother", granted to L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, Father Gabriel Funes, director of the Vatican Observatory, stated: "In my opinion this possibility (of life on other planets) exists"; "intelligent beings, created by God may exist in outer space" and "some aliens could even be free from original sin" concluding "there could be (other beings) who remained in full friendship with their creator".[29] And on 5 March 2009, Jesuit Brother Guy Consolmagno, another astronomer working at the Vatican Observatory, told the BBC, in relation to the search for Earth-like worlds about to be embarked upon by the Kepler Space telescope, that "we Jesuits are actively involved in the search for Earth-like planets. The idea that there could be other intelligent creatures made by God in a relationship with God is not contrary to traditional Judeo-Christian thought. The Bible has many references to, or descriptions of, non-human intelligent beings; after all, that's what angels are. Our cousins on other planets may even have their own salvation story – including other examples of the incarnation of the second person of the Trinity. We are open to whatever the Universe has for us."[30]



With regard to the attribution to "the Vatican" of similar statements by individuals working for the Holy See, official spokesman Father Federico Lombardi, also a Jesuit, published on 21 February 2009 a declaration that they must not be mistaken for statements of the Holy See.[31]

Answer 13

Part of the Augustinian Theodicy is the concept of "the fall". "The fall" is a fall from grace that Adam and Eve initiated, and the rest of us have inherited. This idea has changed dramatically through chirstian history. The roman catholic church has a part in its catechism that discussed this; you should refer to the chatechism for the exact church standing on this.



Original Sin has nothing to do with sleep. "The Fall" and "original sin" have many interpretations. The best interpretation (that I have found) of original sin is that it is the capacity to commit sin. In orther words, it is the inherent corruptability of the soul. The word inherent meaning that we all have this capacity; we are imperfect (so in that sense original sin is inherited). Original sin is not an automatic commited sin.



The notion of "the fall" is quite diffrent. Common sense now shows us that not all of the bible is literal history (Adam and Eve being an unlikely beginning to a literal history). So many (including myself) now interpret the bible differently.



The way I see the story of the garden of eden and the forbidden fruit, is that it is our humanity reflected back at us. It means two distinct things; one, that we are decision makers and not programmed robots. Adam and Eve represent humans that choose God's will (which is good); the result of this is harmony with nature. When they listen to temptation, they take the fruit and "gain knowledge of good and evil". Taking the fruit is a symbol of their desire to have "knowledge" outside of God's goodness. It is the desire to be gods, this is the essence of sin. It is the desire to make oneself a god by deciding what is right and wrong, instead of realizing the objective goodness that is God. Every time a person sins, he or she make himself/herself a god, "changing" good and evil. This story means that knowledge of good and evil is not something you control to your own ends. It is someting that is participated in (like communication, love, wisdom or any other form of knowledge). God is goodness. No one owns goodness. A desire to control what is good and evil (sin) is "the fall" every time we sin, we "fall" as Adam and Eve did in the story.



Sin did not come into the world by Adam. SIn comes into the world every time someone sins. We do not inherit sin; sin is (non-being)nothingness, where being should be. You cannot inherit nothingness.

Answer 14

I agree it looks like it was in the Garden of Eden story we fell in consciousness, became unconscious. And I feel we can regain paradise/consciousness by clearing the 144.000 nadis, 72000 on each side of the body. But why did we fall in consciousness in the first place??



My answer when I was studying this is something made us fall out of the Christ state. This something has to do with duality-thinking or judgement ie. the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (Tree of Life being the subltle system consisting of nadis, chakra's and Sahasrara=7th chakra/connection to God. They are the same Tree in my opinion and represent the psychic/energy channel up the spine. One with uncorrupted chi-flow and the other one with corrupted flow of life-energy). Sin then is whatever blocks the energy in the subtle system, or sin has an energy block as a result. It has to do with the way we perceive our ego-mind as our "Lord", we listen to this mind's instruction, something we did not do before...We really should not get sick and die, but it is the result of this "sin" (sin=separation we got separated, or at rather have the illusion of sepaation, from who we really are and therewith God). When all 144000 are clear is when we reach back Home, we become who we really are.



Well I leave it there. Thank you for asking, there is an answer somewhere above that is kinda like a rant but really accurate.



Love

Answer 15

We're the dream characters of Adam. When you dream none of the characters are anyone other than you. In this dream Adam creates woman shame and guilt. To wake up is to unify to bring Adam back to himself. Adam being the common soul of mankind. I like it sooooo much better than what's typically discussed concerning this story of spiritual metaphor, what we typically hear is childish at best.

Answer 16

I'm not sure what Catholicism means by the "original sin".



The Bible tells us that by one man (Adam), sin entered the world. Adam's sin was the first sin - and it was his disobedience to God by eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.



The Bible also lets us know that by one Man, we can receive salvation and deliverance from our sins - the Man being referred to is Jesus Christ.



Since the time that Adam sinned, everyone born after wards is born with a sinful nature. And there are no great sins or small sins - we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.



Once we accept Jesus Christ as our Savior, we are saved from our sins, and we have the spiritual power to resist temptation.



Hope this helps !

Answer 17

First question... Original "err" Most people will tell you that it was when Eve took the bite from the fruit. Not so first she needed to want it, or "covet it", but satan used pride to install The desire to be more than she was, enter pride, mistrust. Gen 2:21 tells of Adam falling to sleep, it was so God could remove the rib that became Eve, So he most have woken, for 2 verses later Adam spoke to God and the woman

Answer 18

I personally do not believe that we will be judged for Adam and Eve's sin.



The Bible says that one man sinned, and so death passed to all men. It doesn't say that SIN passed to all men.



Also, the Bible says, "For all HAVE sinned and fall short of the glory of God." It doesn't say "For all ARE sinners ... "



Finally, when David said, "In sin did my mother conceive me," this was not a theological statement about himself, but an admission that his mother was committing adultery - "in sin my MOTHER conceive me" not "I was conceived a sinner." He was waxing poetic because he realized that he committed the same sin with Bathsheba that his mother had committed in conceiving him. He was overcome with guilt and shame.



Finally, Ezekiel 18:1-3 says, "The word of the Lord came unto me again, saying, What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel."



And again, in Vs 4, it says, "the soul that sinneth, it shall die."



Finally, Vs 19 says, "Yet say ye, Wherefore doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father?"



God is saying that we will NOT be judged for the sins of another, even our first father Adam.



I believe that children are born innocent, but because we live in a fallen world with a propensity to sin, the child learns selfishness at an early age, so that when the conscience is fully awakened (some refer to this as an "age of accountability", and it can come at different times for different people), but when the conscience is fully awake, and the person THEN does something that he knows is wrong, THEN he becomes guilty. It is at THAT point that they need to ask God to forgive them.



I know my answer is controversial, and many of today's church would disagree with me, but that's just the way I see it. If I'm wrong, God will show me.

Answer 19

Having a Body full of senses is a Sin !



This world requires it. Even GOD requires it to communicate.



Intellectually controlling these senses and so the Mind is self realising like Jesus. Try to imitate him and all doubts will vanish.

Answer 20

"There is only one salvation for you: take yourself up, and make yourself responsible for all the sins of men. For indeed it is so, my friend, and the moment you make yourself sincerely responsible for everything and everyone, you will see at once that it is really so, that it is you who are guilty on behalf of all and for all. Whereas by shifting your own laziness and powerlessness onto others, you will end by sharing in Satan's pride and murmuring against God."__FYODOR DOSTOEVSKY

Answer 21

Some of my friends have been talking about the same thing recently. In not accepting a literal translation of the bible in many ways, also brought up Catholic -interesting isn't it?



Any way, one has questioned if the deep sleep is a lack of awareness, I put it as development of ego, the separation, the individual. This inspired from discussions here on RandS



The tree of Life, the tree of Knowledge. Metaphorically, what does it mean to eat from the tree of knowledge, something forbidden to keep the status quot of innocence -purity? Purity= when we are not trapped in our bodies of earth, when our spirits are free to move as they will, unfettered by competition, communication, weariness, selfish survival, not unlike what can happen in sleep as we know it. When we can find each other with out the challenge of survival on earth before us?



Was Adam so very Physical ? or Eve? Did they live in the dust, the particles of energy we can perceive, the light? when one consumes something, does it not become a part of their structure?



A voice, a request, a beckoning asks us to eat of the earth? A soul who has come before us, is lonely, a soul that rebelled, the flow, a soul that had separated out anyway, a soul that was charged with a desire to compete with the source, and it fell out of the flow? Became an individual life, separated? unable to truly hold a charge that could compete with the source, all that there is, the I am? And so it had a place it landed where it could live in it's form, the charge in the matter of the earth, the electricity, combined with this element. What is in the combinations of elements that exist on earth that can not exist in other parts of the universe, there is an element in water that cannot be identified, there is are many elements we may not have discovered, and the separating out has just become a passage for the reunion of all the elements and all that is of the universe to come together in a new form, have it is life and growth, metamorphosing, evolving and finding new rhythm , a new vibration that is the path out of this state and eventually become part of the universe again.



Will a fallen charge always be separated out from the flow if it is of an element that challenges the integrity of all that there is? Or competes with The source? Or will it take its path in becoming static, just a yin to the yang, or yang to the yin?, the not that must exist for there to be and in its own way serve the energy of the universe recycling it. Our desire to be of what we have always known ourselves to be is by far the desirable choice a to becoming of nothing, the not. The black hole. But do not fear it, for it will all happen again as it all a cycle, the nothing in some way is a part of the recycling and becoming of all that is, that fills the voids. Fear of that unknown, that rebel, that gives it the power that takes you from your path of staying charged with the energy that allows you to flow again. The fear is the anti charge, that which takes us to a burning off of that charge, becoming of not, to wait for what might seem an eternity before we are born again into the charge and live in the energy of its flow that is part of the light and electricity that all that there is and the music in all that, the song, rather than the nothing. Did you know that vibrations in space found of as late sound musical?, just as the whales in the deep of the ocean.



So once we consume of the earth we become it? The tree of knowledge is now to know the earth, the elements here, the struggle of this life, the competition to survive, the struggle to work the energy around us, on this earth, separated and yet connected, living in a form of matter and energy, perhaps for our spirits, a state of blindness, a state of unawareness, a state of sleep, yet when we lay these bodies to sleep our spirits are more free to move in their previous state. We sleep, unaware when we are awake and negotiating our bodies, and we wake as we sleep, find awareness again, and remember to search it out in the wee small hours of the morning.



And the tree of life is there to help us balance this struggle to a harmony and resonance with the universe, a caring of this life sphere, this ball of energy, the balance that sings when in the right tune and vibration that we are not necessarily separated from and denied access to in this world of work, if we use the mind and the heart and that which is given us the way - the flow, the way found in testimony after testimony, written about by the hands and minds of those who have also felt free from our earth bound bodies and felt the wings of love. oops I rambled again. I always find the complexity to an answer. sorry.



Blessings to you, enjoy as the stars shine for everyone. I can be a complete cheese ball. Now I am thinking about Cheesthens again.

Answer 22

dear sister...

i am sure that this question will get quite a bit of response... it will be fun to read the answers and the way in which others interpret the doctrine of Original Sin!



i can only give my own brief personal thoughts and hope that there is some good here... insha'Allah.



God knows best... Allahu a'lam



like you... i have had difficulties with the doctrine of Original Sin. rather i tend to believe that we are born as Clean spirit and submitters to God... [e.g. Muslim] and it is by coming into "sleeping humanity" that we 'also' fall asleep. we eat the poisoned apple such as in the Story of Snow White... we fall asleep in the field of Poppies... such as in the Wizard of Oz... and etc.



Sleeping Humanity is a very big topic with Gurdjieff (peace be upon him) and others... and much work on self is required to 'awaken'... [we must overcome our own negativity, hypocrisy, envy, self-love and etc that we have been taught since we were very young... even as babes.]



and remember that Jesus Christ (dearly beloved) [†] admonished the disciples to "Stay Awake!" in the Garden.



we find in Ephesians 5:14

"Awake you who sleep,

Arise from the dead,

And Christ will give you light."



There is much 'food' for thought there... and i continue to contemplate and wonder at those words... they are very precious...



i have nothing further to add... except that i love Catholics a lot! :)

Praise be to God. lots of love... xx

sean

Answer 23

I am by no means a catholic theologian but here is my take. The original sin is not like a disease such as AIDS. It started with a concious decision to not listen to God which continues to this day.As we say in all the catholic world we ask for forgiveness for deeds we have done and also deeds which we have failed to do.Hope this helps.

Here is some part of a good article from Catholic answers web page.



For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation." Who did it bring condemnation for? Adam only? No—verse 18 says, "Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men" (emphasis added). This is stated even more clearly by the King James rendering the same verse: "Therefore, as by the offense of one, judgment came upon all men to condemnation."

Some folks have a problem with the concept that we, Adam’s posterity, should have to pay a price for a sin we didn’t commit. They do not understand how the Church is using the term original sin. As the Catechism says, "original sin is called ‘sin’ only in an analogical sense: it is a sin ‘contracted’ and not ‘committed’—a state and not an act" (CCC 404).



Adam’s sin changed everything—for him and for us. There was a fundamental change in man’s relationship with God. God no longer walked the earth with man. What’s more, Satan was now ruler of the world. There was a fundamental change in the relationship of man to nature and a fundamental change in nature itself (cf. Rom. 8:19–22). A fundamental change in the relationship between man and woman. A fundamental change in relationships among all men, since sin and death had entered the world. A fundamental change in the nature of man himself. It’s all right there in the Bible. And it is the Church’s teaching on the doctrine of original sin.



But for each of those verses in Romans 5 about how Adam’s disobedience affected us, there is a parallel verse describing how Jesus’ obedience affected us. This parallel is paramount. One man’s disobedience leads to death for all; one man’s obedience leads to life for all. We see this parallel in 1 Corinthians 15:21–22: "For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive

Answer 24

Original sin came from karma. You are born with the karma of your previous lives. Born with original sin according to the interpretation of the Abrahamic 3.

Answer 25

Hello!

Well, the "original sin" Idea isn't Quite Right.



Now, here's the Scoop! on the Poop!

(forgive me if I Offend, but I Really Told the Truth!)



See, when Adam Ate from that Tree in the Garden, Adams "Spirit" got messed up.



That messed up Spirit is what Dissconnected US from GOD Almighty "Spiritually".



Then, Adams Body Became Subject to Sin, Sickness, Disease so on and so on (Addictions too!)...



Actually, when Adam Blew-It, Adam messed up EVERYTHING! (Universe too!)



Well, the messed up Spirit and the messed up Body just Really Goes Together for "A Sinning Good Time!"---See?



Yep! They Do!!!



:)



So There! IS your "original sin"---only, I Told Ya' The Truth, Bout' it!



Now, why do we Still Sin AFTER our Spirit gets Saved (ReCreated, Born-Again) and we Become a Child of GOD?



Because:

1. Our Body Does NOT get Born-Again, at this Time.

2. Our SOULS (haven't said anything Bout' our "Souls" Yet!)

have not been RENEWED Completely.

Actually, to Stay Out of Sin AFTER you get Born-Again, you Need to ReNew your Soul---DAILY.



Yep!

Daily.

Then you Stand a Good Chance of Not Sinning Very MUCH, AnyMore---Till you go Home to Heaven

:)



So There! And a Big Dit-----------to!, to Ya' Too!



Jesus Loves You!



p.s. I was raised Catholic, made Head-Altar Boy.

I was Taught by Nuns for 8 years.

I left the church when I got my Keys (car) and went Out into the World and Bout' Killed myself.

I called out on GOD and HE Answered!!!



Jesus Christ, Born of a Virgin, The Creator come in the Flesh, Died on the Cross and was RAISED from The Dead:



IS Lord!

(and you'd Better Believe it Buddy! ;)

Answer 26

I personally don't buy into the original sin, I think when we are born we are essentially tabula rosa (a blank slate) then as we are influenced by others and society in general, that is when we 'learn' to sin, to say hateful things, be judgmental, etc.



In my view, that is why Jesus taught us to be as little children. It is not about a 'born again' religious experience as much as it is about trying to be open and kind and accepting, as we were as little children. We were indeed born right the first time.

Answer 27

According to Martin Luther, Original Sin is win Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate the fruit.



He claims because of this, all humans are stained with this sin and there is no manner in which it may be removed - but if you accept God, he will forgive your Original Sin.

Answer 28

I'm not sure I understand what your saying here. People don't decide to sleep, it is a biological necessity and therefore not a sin.

Answer 29

It is all your fault. You accepted the Protestant view, a view opposed and unaccepted for 1500 years.



"Our doctrine of original sin is not the same as the Protestant doctrine. "Original sin," with us, cannot be called sin, in the mere ordinary sense of the word "sin"; it is a term denoting Adam's sin as transferred to us, or the state to which Adam's sin reduces his children; but by Protestants it seems to be understood as sin, in much the same sense as actual sin. We, with the Fathers, think of it as something negative, Protestants as something positive. Protestants hold that it is a disease, a radical change of nature, an active poison internally corrupting the soul, infecting its primary elements, and disorganising it"

John Henry Newman



http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/newman-mary.html



I am sorry that you left the Faith but it is entirely your fault. Should you die soon and go to Judgement you have to explain why you didn't know your own beliefs. I'd say you are in big inescapable trouble.

Answer 30

Lilith, i don't agree with the entire story of original sin. what kind of god/dess who is love would continue taking that out on every generation afterwards? doesn't compute for me, neither does the idea of "sin". god/dess IS love i believe. and love is forever.

Answer 31

In all love,



First off, sin stands for:



S elf

I nflicted

N onsense



Your life is defined by what you think, desire, believe, say and do.



To eat of the tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil is to judge something as either good... (me & you for example), not as good (him & her for example) or evil (all the rest of them for example).



Because the first part and beginning of our reality finds itself in our thoughts, judgment of someone, some act or something as evil, creates evil in our reality as experience. Not by some other independent deity but by us and our belief in separateness found in ego thought. The idea that we and our kind are good, our morality is good, our culture is good, our religion is good to the exclusion of all others is the cause of the fall and the continuous eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.



You cannot hide from your most secret thoughts because they keep showing up as your life! Judge evil and evil shows up in your life. Love all as yourself and love shows up in your life. Judge none and none judge you!



There is an article in the blog on this website called the "Teaching of Wayne" read it for more in depth info on this subject. Check out the link below:



http://360.yahoo.com/iammindman



Blessings and peace,

All in all,

Nony

Answer 32

This is going to be long, may even get some dumbs down for this one, maybe.



Here's the thing Lilith, the concept of the Original Sin, in the format that it is taught and understood in the church, did not really originate in the bible, or at least its foundation is not as people think. Many have never studied the early theology of the church, so they do not know this, but the doctrine of Original Sin was created and formed by a early Church father in the 3rd century-early 4th century named Aurelius Augustinus, whom people call Saint Augustine. The Doctrine of the Original Sin, is not really in the bible, it is an interpretation that he framed and wrote in one of his writings that gained popularity by the empire of Rome, which was around the time when Christianity was being hijacked and purged of a lot of esoteric, mystical elements and thus to form a central theme with it, to be used as a political tool by the emperor.



Augustine came to this from literal interpretations in some parts, and something written in Romans. This Original Sin Doctrine, was later taken and made even worst than it was, by Martin Luther.



The Real Original Sin, as understood by those of esoteric Christianity (spiritual Christianity) was that division was the original sin. What you call "sleep" exist because of inner divisions, inner functions that operate in a complete scattered and malfunctioning state of confusion, of which, man is entirely unconscious to and these inner divisions, have divisions in them also, which causes attachments between the various "segmented-reactive-divides" in us. If you look at that story, it must be, of course, understood that it is an esoteric allegory. If we look at it, Adam was put to sleep and the female in him was divided from him. He was no longer whole, no longer "ADAM" which means man. Man, in those days, represented wholeness -- the union of the polarities. Adam prior was "ADAMEVE" afterwards was "Adam and Eve".



In the Gospel of Phillip, it is said that the separation of Adam was the beginning of death. In the scriptures division is death, and it is evil. Sleep is the darkness that people LIVE in, the state of unconsciousness of what is in themselves. In the Thomas Gospel it is said that when we gain unity within ourselves, we become Children of Adam, and can move mountains. Actually all of the "Gnostic scriptures" are about this necessary unity we must achieve within ourselves, in order to join with the Higher level of our Being beyond this experience. It speaks of a certain birth that needs to be achieved between the male/female polarities, forces, natures that one has imbued within themselves, to bring about the concept of "One Flesh" (the male with the female, neither male nor female) - and this is why marriage was very important, because through a Divine Marriage, the male and female could through each other begin to develop this unity in a supercharged manner.



And what follows with the trees, is that the one that is the knowledge of Good and evil, which represents duality, this eating of that tree was a natural progression to the division that had already been formed by the Laws (of God). This represented the divided states being molded in experiential knowledge with its condition, and thus having to develop each state to its zenith of expressions, which in the end would bring about the completion of the being when these Laws (of God) are overcome in wholeness. So this makes the Tree of knowledge the acquaintance of duality -- in fact from one perspective it can be said to be what our mind is like in its divided state on many levels -- trapped between the reflective/passive and the active polarities. While the tree of life would represent the whole state of the tree of knowledge of good and evil -- its potential.



Sin is just the result of lack of applied knowledge -- sin is knowledge not lived, to know to do good and do it not... to fall short of what one has in hand to do towards ones highest ideal. It's natural manifest comes through mans divided state, s/he does not know self so thus s/he can do nothing about these mechanical-manifestations from natures s/he is imbued with that s/he is in the dark to. If a man knew thy self, in this sense, s/he would be shocked and never see themselves the same way again. And from that point on, knowing what is in self and being awake to what is in us, s/he could begin to start the work that is necessary in order to build ones consciousness and inner "shepherd" to direct and develop ones inner flock towards wholeness of mind and being. LIGHT, in this since, is consciousness. As consciousness brings LIGHT to the darkness that we normally live in. The objective, has always been to Unite the Heavenly and earthly within us -- there is much to the concept of the bridal chamber, the whole unity that one must bring about within their temple.

Answer 33

We never fell asleep... we only dreamed we did. ;-)

Answer 34

1) There is no such thing as a "truth sense". Either you have evidence or you don't.

2) There are no such things as "collective decisions".