dont you think this is funny about wiccans and native americans?

Question

now im a christian and ive notcied this, you know how the native americans do things like rain dances and people are soo amazed with it, but when a wiccan does something people hate them and call them satan worshipers? and i know alot of them who say it are christians and some are not. but isnt wicca and what the native americans used to practice very similar?

Answer 1

Not at all. Wicca is a recent invention cobbled together from many Western sources.



" [M]any of the Book of Shadows rituals did not exist in 1954 (when Witchcraft Today was published) but instead were still being written. [T]he major sources from which the rituals had been constructed included: (a) Mather's edition of the Greater Key of Solomon; (b) Aleister Crowley's Magic in Theory and Practice; (c) Leland's Aradia (d) some Masonic rituals akin to those described by Duncan and those of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (aside from those transmitted by Crowley; and (e) Margaret Murray's The Witch Cult in Western Europe. There were also bits and pieces from other works by Leland, Jane E. Harrison, Gilbert Murray, James Frazier, and other great classicists from the 19th century. That accounted for EVERYTHING in the rituals! There was nothing left that differed in any important way from what you can find in those sources- - but that is NOT at all what Gardner had claimed!" (SOURCE: Crafting The Art of Magic by Adian Kelly, Page xvii)



It's not ancient, and it's not a "reconstruction" because you can't reconstruct something that didn't exist prior.



Native americans get mad when New Agers, Neopagans and Wiccans, et al try to copy their rituals and practices. A few tribes have even tried to sue.



And I don't think there are many people around who don't know Wicca isn't Satanism. When Wicca was created circa 1950 Gerald gardner claimed Wiccans were the ones persecuted during the witch hunt era. They couldn't have been since it didn't exist until the 20th century. Wiccans insisted on calling themselves witches at least up until recently (many still do) and many Satanists also call themselves witches (Example: Church of Satan level II was called Witch or Warlock).

Answer 2

Seeing the answers so far and knowing my experiences were fairly unusual, I suspect most Americans don't really know much about these things.



No, "Wicca" is a modern religion with vestiges of older religions, but having little in common except terminology that was mostly determined by Roman and Christian detractors. The earliest versions of wicca I encountered in the 1990s were incredibly similar to Robert Heinlein's ideas, making Wicca more similar to Scientology (started by a science fiction writer) than Native American spiritual practices. In fact, Native Americans have expressed offense that their beliefs be considered a religion at all as they consider them more important as a link to their histories and cultures.



Meanwhile, wicca has been revised and revised, presumably after groups were discovered "practicing" naked in the woods in Indiana with their small children. Like LDS, most commercial wicca products quickly distanced themselves from the more radical behaviors (at least publicly and as far as I could tell). No self-respecting historian would claim real connections except the superficial between wicca and ancient religions. Wicca is more about getting off and the ancient religions were more about sincere superstitions. This is also why native American groups would be irritated at the comparison.



This does not mean all wiccans are thinking of molesting children. There are many folks that like it for other reasons and are oblivious to that part of their religion's history, let alone ever bothered to read "A Stranger in a Strange Land" and have not made a serious study of ancient religions.



As for your primary question, I suppose it's a little funny if you like laughing at how ignorant people can be. In particular the Wiccans and Christians. The native Americans I've met have been college educated, so they seemed more intelligent to me. I'm sure every group has some ignoramouses out there though.



As for comparisons of native American beliefs and other "religions," I think spiritual Taoists and Confucianists might be more similar than wiccans.

Answer 3

Well, I don't think Wiccans have a "rain dance" per se.



Tribal peoples everywhere -- not just America -- have a great deal of respect for nature and consider it sacred. I don't mean sacred in the sense that a Christian might use the term, their idea of sacred is more of a value statement than a statement of belief.



Wiccans too tend have a great respect or reverence for nature.



It is only natural that the groups will have similar ways of paying homage to their shared values.



Of course, none of it is "Devil worship" and Christians will never fully appreciate the values of Wiccans, tribal peoples, or animists. Thinking you are part of God's creation is nothing at all like -- and is mutually exclusive of -- the feeling of oneness with nature.

Answer 4

Actually, no, Wicca is Western European with some Middle Eastern influence, and bears little, if any, resemblance to any of the varied Native American cultural religions beyond the fact that both tend to be nature oriented, polytheistic, and respectful of other peoples Gods and customs. For the record, Christians called the Native American faiths satanic and evil as well, many still do, and one of the prime justifications for the destruction of our cultures was that we were being brought to salvation.

ulfsark9: Don't know where you're getting you're information, but I live in Texas and I know lots of Wiccans who both hunt and fish, why would that raise eyebrows?

Answer 5

I don't know enough about Native Americans to comment on whether it's similar in any respect to Wicca. I do know, though, that you are right in saying some people unfairly bash Wiccans and in fact, Pagans in general. When people accuse them of 'satan worship' it's especially ignorant - 'satan as devil' is a purely Christian notion. It's not found anywhere in the Pagan religions and it's not found in Judaism either.





http://www.ajewwithaview.com

Answer 6

Well I think you stumbled on an interesting point about America.

In this country we tend to have this attitude that any culture is for sale. Traditions like dances, foods, songs, ways of dressing are something that we can just take and buy as we please often without really thinking or caring what it might mean to those people.

Personally, I think this is a product of the christian worldview. They believe that they are superior, and if their way is the right way they can peer down on the poor ignorant tribes as they do their silly little rain dance and pay them a few pennies before they kick them off their land and take what they want.

It's disgusting and frankly I am ashamed to pay taxes to such an unsympathetic group of people running this country. The amazing thing is that in every war of consequence in American history, native americans still enlisted and died for us and went futher unrecognized and not even their most basic issues were addressed. I'm not a believer in welfare or reparations but I truely believe we owe them. And we owe them in LAND and HEALTHCARE and JOBS and EDUCATION. But mostly LAND. Even being a heathen I don't think I understand what land really means to them.

Sorry, I shall get off my soapbox now.

Answer 7

Not ... exactly. Wicca is a modern day recreation based off a lot of the common superficial concepts of all earth based pagan nature religions. The common themes. So, in that case, its similar to ANY pagan religion. But, in terms of core belief, no. Native americans, nor have any pagan religion of old, have a concept of "if you harm none, do as you will." The vast majority of them were more centered on whether any particular action was honorable or not. So a native american or any pagan/heathen reconstructionalist helping himself to some nice fillet of wild venison that he caught and killed himself is not something that would turn a few heads. The idea of a wiccan going deer hunting however would certainly raise a few eyebrows.



BUT, i will agree on one thing with you: there is no reason why any heathen or pagan religion, be it pre-christian reconstructionalist or post-christian recreationalist, to be labeled as devil worshiping. That is entirely conceited on the part of the christian to believe that our Gods are your devils. Maybe your god is any number of Trickster gods out there. It certainly would be funny. Yep, that's it, the christian god is LOKI!

Answer 8

It's not the same... but there are similarities between Wicca and Native America Spiritualities.

Answer 9

Osi yo, Yes, they do have some of the same base ideas, but do not tell an American Indian he is pagan or all you will see is his back as he walks away. We are not pagan, but spiritual. It is being a part of nature, or being one with nature. Most tribes use the Red Road philosophy, which means, that we do no harm to nature, man, our brother animals or the mother, Earth. if we can we try to help those in need and pray to the Great Spirit that we may walk in peace through our lives.

This is the base core of it. If you are interested in more study try; http://www.prophecykeepers.com/keetoowahsociety/redroad1.htm

Answer 10

I see what you are saying. There are many variations in religious practices, and virtually an endless supply of bias against any combination of them. For the most part, people hate because they either fear something, or don't understand it, or both. Either way, the bottom line is this: everybody is somebody's weirdo. The best thing we can do is respect everyone's right to practice their own faith as they see fit, and hope someday that tolerance catches on. Best wishes.

Answer 11

Similar...no, not from what I gather.



If you mean a "nature" centered spirituality, religions world wide have been that at one time, and even the mainstream ones of today still contain some elements of it.



And I think "rain dance" may be a stereotype...

Answer 12

I won't go into the details of the practices ....



But I think you are right. It may be, if you are particularly commenting on US citizens .... that they are responding from guilt at the genocide, and lack of respect that has been committed to the Native American.



And now ... to try to clear the pain of conscience they applaud.



just a theory in the moment



"In the presence of eternity mountains are as transient as clouds." R. Ingersoll

Answer 13

One thing is for sure: Wiccans are really misunderstood by Christians and there's a lot of misconception about them.

Answer 14

Both of these religions are satanic. I've read testimonies of native Americans who came to Christ. Didn't know the wiccans were doing dances. I know they will curse the Christians right and left and lie about what they do.

Answer 15

Not interested in what you are - except your grammar and spelling are pretty bad. Too lazy to use the spell-checker?