Question:
Atheists,God is presumed by many to have created this universe. Explain, in detail, your alternative hypothesis on how this universe exists?
2017-11-08 07:52:39 UTC
Atheists,God is presumed by many to have created this universe. Explain, in detail, your alternative hypothesis on how this universe exists?
68 answers:
?
2017-11-10 16:17:37 UTC
Time has no start, and time has no end.
?
2017-11-09 07:11:07 UTC
Atheists will generally argue that the Universe is either eternal, or that it came into existence via the supposed Big Bang. That is pretty much their faulty alternative.
2017-11-09 04:28:39 UTC
They can't, because they're wrong.
Wa
2017-11-09 01:14:09 UTC
How does the evidence of life on earth millions of years ago equate with the Bible claim that God created life on earth recently by comparison? Starting with a deep commitment to the inerrancy of God's Word, has calculated a span of just a few thousand years, most likely close to 6000 years, since creation. The age of the earth can be estimated by taking the first five days of creation (from earth’s creation to Adam), then following the genealogies from Adam to Abraham in Genesis 5 and 11, then adding in the time from Abraham to today. Adam was created on day 6, so there were five days before him. If we add up the dates from Adam to Abraham, we get about 2,000 years, using the Masoretic Hebrew text of Genesis 5 and 11.3 Whether Christian or secular, most scholars would agree that Abraham lived about 2,000 B.C. (4,000 years ago). Historians date Abraham's biblical story around 2000 B.C., based on clues in Genesis Chapters 11 through 25. So a simple calculation is: 5 days + 2000 years + 4000 years = 6000 years.
Art
2017-11-09 00:38:19 UTC
Sure , E=MC^2 . expansion requires energy hence E increases, our only source of energy is the conversion of matter to energy. That means C is not a constant but a variable. That means both C and E can attain a value of zero ( going back in time) at which point mass is the only thing that exists, So the Universe consisted of only mass at one point ( that is what the equations says) . Mass has no volume. That is a point singularity Mass in a vacuum cannot exist it by nature decomposes causes energy and therefore space is created.

Can you follow that , I think it is fairly simple.
Wundt
2017-11-08 22:15:36 UTC
About 20 years ago it was hypothesizes that we should be able to detect the 'echoes' of the Big Bang in the background radiation in space. About 10 years ago, that hypothesis was proved correct. Regardless of what anyone believes, the radiation existed and the hypothesis confirmed.



Now, 2000 years ago, a sizeable portion of the 'civilized' world believed that Zeus (or Jupiter) was the king of the gods and that the world was created by a great bird called Nyx. They believed it with the same fervor that you believe in your religion. Even today, you have over a billion people who are Hindus, who believe a different story of creation. Etc.



I am not a cosmologist. But, I do know that a creation myth based on the existence of a 'magical being' is not backed up by any evidence and the massive inconsistency between the 1000's of religions further shows that none of them have a compelling case. Instead, I prefer to follow what we can prove, verify, and replicate.
hugo61oi3
2017-11-08 16:12:42 UTC
yahoo is foking mental, how do we know it was your god? atheists dont claim anything other than rejecting religion claims OF GOD, foking mental idiots. How Hard ist it to understand???
Grillparzer
2017-11-08 11:54:41 UTC
A god is presumed, not necessarily your god.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
Tony R
2017-11-08 08:05:25 UTC
I think first off your word "presumed" is accurate. When you presume something, you are more or less making a guess because of incomplete information. This then makes the god hypothesis only one of possibly thousands of reasons why there is a universe with life. Plus, you would have to presume which god that even is.



Sure god is one possibility, or a group of beings took equal responsibility of creating everything. Scientists have written whole books with very good theories of how things can natural come from nonexistence. Matter could have always existed in one form or another.



I do not buy that people have some kind of direct knowledge that they know "who" created the universe if they claim intelligence caused it. Like I don't believe looking at DNA gives them insight it was Jesus, Allah or Vishnu.
hfshaw
2017-11-08 08:01:21 UTC
Only if you explain in detail how your god exists, where and when it came from, how it came to rule the universe (if that, indeed, is the nature of your god; I apologize if that's not what your god is "about"), and the basis upon which it rules its domain.
?
2017-11-10 23:58:31 UTC
God has a very very large file of blue prints - to keep track of all his experiments and stuff ups, like animals such a lions and crocodiles earring other poor plus humans if his chance attack catches a human and eats them alive. Now this so called perfect good god , I am sure would not have meant to put this into his plan of how this perfect life on this gody perfect world should be like for humans or any animal. So sure it is obvious that this gody thingy has made some very minor mishaps, by the look of it. But all good, next time he goes on a creation sprea he now knows what not to do because of these stuff up. No one can critisize this gody thingy, as the religious nutters just shift the goal posts. In the past , it was hell brimstone and fire, and hope you enjoy hell when you get their, but the religious nutters have realised that peopl now do not believe in this cr-p, so they just drop that talk from the church sermons, ha, great all good now. But some of you bar-stards are still question the belief of God. Ha, just look at the bombing Muslims, does this not tell how sane religious nutters are ?
DosCentavos
2017-11-10 16:18:23 UTC
The Big Bang Theory is presumed by the vast educated majority to have been the origin of our universe -- including the Catholic Church. This is a SCIENTIFIC THEORY based on evidence and observation.



Creationism is a HYPOTHESIS based on a mistranslated text derived from an illiterate, barbaric bronze aged culture. There is no evidence to support this assertion.
?
2017-11-09 21:36:15 UTC
God creator of the universe writes a book, doesn't mention any factual details about the universe.
?
2017-11-09 19:58:22 UTC
In DETAIL, you COULD look at the several Youtube videos describing Creation Stories from OTHER ancient cultures, giving credit to various Goddesses and/or Gods.



It would be interesting to know how many people even bothered reading about or viewing Creation Stories from OTHER cultures, before declaring that the ancient Hebrew one is the Least Silly of the bunch.
2017-11-09 09:47:53 UTC
They can't. Only they know is Bang...Bang... bang. and also many people are.
?
2017-11-09 02:42:46 UTC
The Big Bang
?
2017-11-08 23:47:35 UTC
The guy beneath me said almost word for word what I had planned, so... Your theory of an omniscient being or beings riddled with paradoxes and contradictions using hitherto unseen forces to design a universe in which we are a minute speck incapable of exploring all but a slightly larger speck even at our most technologically advanced, is more reliable becaaaause?
Andy
2017-11-08 21:56:01 UTC
we don't know how the universe came to exist. however, this is perfectly fine, because the universe is not obligated to make sense to anyone.
2017-11-08 21:09:11 UTC
I don't have a hypothesis.
2017-11-08 19:33:26 UTC
There are many gods and many creation stories which one do you mean?
Keith
2017-11-08 15:16:59 UTC
Get your favorite beverage and a comfy chair, and indulge the mumbo jumbo that you are about to sift through, since they do not know how begin with the dirt they stole from God in order to prove He does not exist.
?
2017-11-08 13:11:17 UTC
Singularity to expansion to atoms, then molecules and then matter. See how easy that was?
?
2017-11-08 12:27:42 UTC
most have to resort to nothing exploded created everything, which requires much more faith to believe than that God made it, d ear.
vorenhutz
2017-11-08 11:09:14 UTC
So you think that "God" is a detailed hypothesis? Interesting.

No, I don't know, and I'm not going to pretend to know.
A Nonny Mouse
2017-11-08 09:20:48 UTC
Arrogant, much? Why should you think that I have a detailed hypothesis on such a matter? Not believing your claims for the existence of a god doesn't automatically make me an astrophysicist.



I know you religious idiots think that the answer to everything can be found in one book but in the real world this isn't the case. I'm sorry you struggle with this concept.



If you could please let me have some evidence that your god exists and that your particular religion is the correct one, that would be super! Until then wind your neck in.
the internet
2017-11-08 08:55:22 UTC
No. I will not explain.

I just point out that the Genesis story is obvious nonsense and that nothing indicates that your god story might actually be true.



Not knowing how or why something is, does not mean that 'magic' is a valid answer or that made up answers are likely to be true.
Campbell Hayden
2017-11-08 08:53:08 UTC
"Religion" is 100% bullsh't … and the filth,

greed, incest, envy, poverty, deceit, and biblical descriptions

about life as it occurred 2,000 years ago, can in no way represent what `God` is.



The Good Lord will never exist in such vacant and disreputable squalor.



But as a ‘believer’ … the next time you look up at the Universe,

give thanks to God that there could not possibly be a-n-y-o-n-e else out there.



Go ahead, and tell the Creator of the cosmos

that you deny any-and-all of His other creations as being demonic,

and how glad you are that he f*cks virgins, and how elated you are that he allows angels to become fallen.



Ahhh, yes … go ahead, and be “christian”.
2017-11-08 08:32:03 UTC
Why should I have to. I am NOT an atheist. Gos IS NOT REQUIRED to create the Universe.. God MAY have crated the Universe and the laws of physics, thermodynamics and quantum mechanic are the standard operating procedures of the Universe while god is saving souls and creating epiphanies and inspiring random acts of kindness , empathy and compassion in human beings and OTHER living entities that have free wills.



At the subatomic , quark sizes of scale , God DOES P"play dice" with Universe. the laws of quantum mechanics can be entirely random.. Entropy goes in only one direction,. forward,. The universe is becoming more chaotic and unordered with time..



It's a pointless waste of my time to try to explain HOW the universe was created or want happened during the first 100.000 AFTER the Universe was created by the Big Bang to someone who is satisfied with Magical super natural being creating the Universe. Don't you have ANY intellectual curiosity about HOW God created the Universe. or are too afraid that God might punish you for DARING to be curious?



And I am NOT an atheist OR an agnostic.
?
2017-11-08 08:19:48 UTC
According to professional cosmologists who have been studying the universe for more than half of their lifetimes, our atomic universe came about from a sudden expansion of space that existed in a former quantum universe but due to an insufficient understanding of gravity, we are currently unable to narrow down the hundreds of proposed possibilities that caused it.



You may have heard of some of these proposed possibilities like String Theory, Multiverse and Quantum Field Theory. Quantum Field Theory is somewhat promising since portions of it have recently been proven in experiments like this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2000483/Sparks-mirrors-Quantum-scientists-make-nothing.html



But this is not the reason why we don't believe in the man-made superstition called gods.
Petter
2017-11-08 07:55:07 UTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqULEE7eY8M
NiJo
2017-11-11 01:49:16 UTC
Those who presume God created the Universe also used to throw virgins in volcanoes to appease said God. So I'm not sure I'm ready to surrender all my cynicism with this group. You do as you please, but please don't tell me you can prove it.
2017-11-10 17:33:38 UTC
Troll on baby.
?
2017-11-10 09:10:40 UTC
I don't know and neither do you.
Special EPhex
2017-11-10 03:01:59 UTC
Not here to defend atheism, only logic, as a person of faith, myself.



We use the term "creation" out of linguistic convenience, generally, but the word does not apply to a 'Divine Being'. "Creation" is not possible, as it implies "something out of no-thing". If energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed, only made to change form, it would suggest that existence is 'eternal' and 'uncaused', which is not unlike an omnipresent God 'without beginning and end'.



Hence, why there is always 'something' rather than 'no-thing'. The human mind and intellect cannot conceive of or comprehend the 'Enormity of Divinity'. You cannot get the concept 'God' from the concept of 'not God'. The "origins of the universe" entails knowing all there is to possibly know, including the entire history of existence, up to the present moment.



Only God can be omniscient. God is 'All-Knowing' by way of 'Being All', therefore He is 'The Almighty'. An 'Unlimited God' is not restricted to the bounds of a "this and that", "here and there", "now and then". Because God is beyond are understanding He cannot be confined to our limited understanding of Him and how we "assume" the universe works, God is not subject to "proof or disproof", and is a subjective awareness we accept or not, on faith (unless you're agnostic).



Humans are often misled and confused by the mind and it's perception's fixation and identification with the linear paradigm of material form and 'content' (components, specifics, details). What is often overlooked is the nonlinear paradigm of formless 'context' (meaning, significance, implications). 'Form' defines 'difference', which perception has a tendency to misinterpret as "separate".



The mind is proficient at registering linear form, but has a habit of working it's logic around it's limitations failing to consider the most fundamental of parameters. Unaided, the mind and intellect are prone to being mistaken, and does not distinguish the superficial surface of "appearances" from 'essence'. The nature of form is 'transience', which is why we "perceive" everything to have a "beginning and end".



What typically does not become apparent to the mind and intellect is that the linear is always a result of the nonlinear, just as the 'emptiness' of the sky allows "clouds to pass". "Sound and motion" are only detectable against the ever-present background of 'silence and stillness'. It is out of 'formless and intangible' thought that ideas arise as "tangible form." All physical matter and energy is entirely made of nonphysical properties.



'Universe' can be defined as the 'totality of all there is'. God's omnipresence implies God is all there ever is and could possibly be. 'God' signifies that existence 'already exists'. 'To exist; is a nonlinear expression, as the Laws of Conservation explain. The form of "this or that", is a subsequent, and ultimately, a trivial matter. God as a "creator", suggests "imperfection", and that He is incapable of "getting it right the first time around".



Both theist and atheist are equally prone to being mislead by the "perception of form", and submit arguments based on logical fallacy. Atheism is born out of the theistic concept of a god who is "elsewhere", hence they are typically going off of the flawed premise that God is "distant" or "absent". How is it possible to be "separate" and "apart" from an omnipresent God?



This is how the so-called "experts" investigate the "origins of existence" through the "big bang", using the same exact science that tells them that the nature of our cosmos is to 'conserve itself', by 'Universal Law'. And those of the Christian faith don't seem to recognize that 'The Father' and 'The Son' are expressions of the omnipresence of 'Transcendent Divinity' (outside) and 'Immanent Divinity' (within).



(John 10:30) "I and the Father are one".

(John 14:11) "Believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me."
?
2017-11-10 01:19:33 UTC
I don't know how the universe was created and neither does anyone else. The Big Bang is as far back as we can go. You can't just fill in the gaps in our knowledge with a God that there is no evidence for.



And even if you do, you just create the question of what created God, so there's really no difference.
Alice S
2017-11-09 21:54:09 UTC
The space that the universe exists in is infinite. So you have an infinite amount of space and an infinite amount of time for something to happen? Given those suppositions it was inevitable that the right elements for a universe would eventually come together, sort of like the infinite amount of monkeys with infinite typewriters.



To be, or not to be. That is the Ook, ook ook.. Banana



Pax
Aaron
2017-11-09 15:40:43 UTC
science
The_Doc_Man
2017-11-09 14:39:37 UTC
"Presumed by many" is a fallacy, appeal to popularity. If we go by numbers, 50 BILLION dung beetles eat sh|t for supper every night. What do YOU eat and why haven't you chowed down on balls of dung?



You and I BOTH know that "in detail" for something as complex as the universe would not fit here, but there are a gazillion articles on-line that you could look up for yourself if you were either (a) too lazy or (b) just spoiling for a fight even though you know you would lose due to the flaws in your own beliefs.



I'll throw you something that will HURT you. If you are Christian (and the odds favor this based on your question), YOUR OWN RELIGION admonishes you to study the works of your God. The Earth, Sun, Moon, and stars are expressly among those works. SO when we study those things and come up with an answer that you don't understand because you don't have the education to understand it, whose fault is THAT? Ours, for studying the works claimed by your God, or yours, for suddenly not liking the answer? The fault lies within YOU , my friend. We study what we study whether YOU approve or not.
Adolf
2017-11-09 06:28:47 UTC
well how does your god exist? if you're willing to believe that a concept, such as a god always existed and created itself, than what is so troubling about believing that the universe and time itself always have existed... Think about it... Why do we need an infinite concept to have created the universe... It seems like an extra, unnecessary step, in order for early societies to justify a lack of scientific knowledge. For explain, in early societies, they created things like the rain god to explain how rain occurs, yet as society advanced, and we figured out how rain actually occurred, the ¨rain god¨ disappeared. Same with your monotheistic god. It was created to explain to unexplainable, the origins of life and the universe, and now that we are starting to learn about the ¨unexplainable¨, god is not a suitable answer. To answer your question, we don't know, and In cannot prove that god does not exist, nor can I prove the Tooth Fairy does not exist, but considering societal patterns, and basic logic it is highly unlikely that any sort of deity exists (or at least one described by man)
Ian
2017-11-09 02:30:57 UTC
The universe was created by Creation Plc. Jehovah was a junior employee, who stole a bunch of company secrets and attempted to secure a patent on "earth" as his intellectual property during St. Michael's aggressive boardroom coup.

Currently, there is an investigation of a big shortfall in the afterlife pension fund. Jehovah doesn't want his name mentioned in question with this, in fact, he doesn't want his name mentioned at all. He's been keeping a very low profile for the last few millenia, so it's a fair bet he's got a lot to hide. It will be judgement day soon enough. The fraud squad have issued a description and would like any Jehovah's witnesses to come forward
Freethinking Liberal
2017-11-09 02:13:17 UTC
You see, there was the giant space goat, it sneezed and thus the Universe was born.
?
2017-11-09 01:15:39 UTC
Il refer u to this brand new concept only discovered yesterday, we are calling "the big bang theory", and with it, a new theory just invented 5 mins ago called, "evolution", both of which Il refer u to google for info on.
2017-11-09 00:42:33 UTC
Why do I need an alternative hypothesis to a silly fairy tale? How the fu¢k am I supposed to know "how the universe exists." You probably mean "why the universe exists" but we have no reason to expect accuracy from you.
2017-11-08 20:49:04 UTC
The Laws of Physics suggest that the Universe has always existed. Back in the Dark Ages when I took Physics in High School the wording went something like this: Matter and Energy cannot be created or destroyed, They can only be converted from one to the other. You get conformation on this idea from the Big Bang Theory. For some reason I always asked what exploded. Part or all of the Universe exploded but the Universe existed before, during, and after that
2017-11-08 17:13:07 UTC
Very good question. That was asked in my science class. I answered, The universe exists & we're in it. Funny thing is, no one questioned that.
JORGE N
2017-11-08 13:25:57 UTC
If I look at it from such a side, it was created by the turmoil of the existing nature at the time. Something of a continuum of events that circle about and cause such things as the big bang to happen. It may have an ending someday. But one that seems an eternity away from where we see things. We seem to be a moment where it all reflects itself even if much of it is way beyond us to understand. We do try to understand it. That is about the best science can do for us. What each of us make of it is our own business. I like to see nature as a compassionate creator who can and does manifest much as we are and is in us and around us all the time helping us understand this moment even better. Nature just laughs at me when I try to give it a name. Perhaps someday I will understand why.
Andrew
2017-11-08 11:59:13 UTC
A giant unicorn took a s*** and now we're here.
Richard II
2017-11-08 11:19:27 UTC
time. a bigger number than you can imagine!!
?
2017-11-08 08:57:16 UTC
Atheists are not cosmologists.

Produce your god.
?
2017-11-08 08:12:03 UTC
Theists, God is presumed by many to have created this universe. Explain, in detail, who created him, and, for bonus points, how you chose which god to believe in? (Points will be deducted for answers which come down to "it was the default God in the area where I live.")



BT: your admission that you don't know how the universe was created is a welcome change from fundie dogmatism. However, I find it hard to wrench any meaning from the rest of your words. In particular, your use of the word "obviously" sounds likely you're pushing something under the carpet.
Grinning Football plinny younger
2017-11-12 11:27:25 UTC
A really big kid was blowing bubbles and they turned into planets, he had a gassy mixture, slightly harder rocky one and some ice. Some of them caught on fire drifted together and turned into stars! Scientist don't agree with me but who listens to them anyway?
?
2017-11-10 05:31:53 UTC
"e. Explain, in detail, your alternative hypothesis on how this universe exists?"



Easy.



We do not know, nor do we Agnostics claim to know. We do have ample evidence that it has been around a long time that Jehovah has only been around since humans invented it.



Now here is a DETAILED and CORRECT description of the Christian fantasy.



This is what Creationists believe. Not one word is false, unlike the BS Creationists keep making up. Oh its written a bit different but every word is based on what is in the Bible. Unlike Creationist strawmen:



In the beginning the Bible claimed that there was light without a sun. Life without a sun. Flying animals before crawling animals. A man made from clay and a woman from Gumby's rib. Man after animals and then man before animals. No death till Gumby ate from one tree so Gumby could actually know that eating from it was wrong. Because Gumby and RibWoman wanted to know right from wrong Jehovah caused ALL the animals to start killing each other as clearly all the animals caused Gumby and Ribwoman to do wrong by finally learning that knowing what was wrong was the wrong thing to Jehovah.



And that IS what the Bible says translated from pandering to ignorance into explicit statements of what it claims happened.



And these people think that evolution is crazy despite all the evidence that shows it happened.



Ethelred Hardrede
That guy that did that thing
2017-11-10 04:49:46 UTC
Without god.
2017
2017-11-09 21:56:23 UTC
Well, it does not really matter how we got here. We are here , make the best of things
2017-11-09 18:38:28 UTC
Big bang
robin_lionheart
2017-11-09 07:24:29 UTC
I don't need an alternative hypothesis to reject yours for insufficient evidence.



Seems to me like our universe may have always existed since time began.
brother trucker
2017-11-08 16:31:44 UTC
I read them all with interest. No one even tried.
?
2017-11-08 16:27:16 UTC
Don't have one, don't need one.

I'm not the one arrogant enough to assume have all the answers
Anne Campbell
2017-11-08 16:14:20 UTC
I am too busy dealing with the realities of life.
Lighting the Way to Reality
2017-11-08 15:27:45 UTC
When you ask "Atheists, God is presumed by many to have created this universe. Explain, in detail, your alternative hypothesis on how this universe exists?," I presume you are referring to the god of the Bible.



Well, the Bible makes it clear--from the descriptions in numerous passages--the nature of the cosmos that the biblical god created.



That cosmos is NOT the universe that we know of, and, in fact, that cosmos does not exist because that cosmos is based on ignorance and primitive myth. Since that cosmos is an attribute and manifestation of that god, then that god does not exist either.



Note: Because only a few verses would not make the case, the material below is necessarily quite extensive and shows that the Bible has a consistent view of the structure of the cosmos throughout, with parts that are fully consistent with each other. That structural consistency indicates that it accurately represents the cosmos as conceived by the writers of the Bible.



According to Ecclesiastes 1:5 the sun goes (hasteth) around the earth



"The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose"



--as, of course, it must, since, according to Ps 93:1, Ps 96:10, and 1 Chr 16:30, the earth does not move. And the earth cannot move because, according to 1 Samuel 2:8 and Ps 75:3, it is placed on pillars. And because it is placed on pillars, it has an underside and an upper side, as confirmed by Isaiah 40:22 which indicates that the earth is a circle--i.e., a flat disk.



That is also confirmed by Proverbs 8:27, which describes god as beginning the creation of the world when he "drew a circle on the face of the deep" (ESV). The Hebrew word translated as “circle,” "compass, “ and “horizon” in the different Bibles is the same word used for circle in Isaiah 40:22. The ancient Hebrews would have gotten the idea of a circular earth by viewing the horizon from the top of a mountain.



(The Hebrew word translated as "circle" in Isaiah 40:22 is chuwg, which means "circle" not "sphere." Strong's Concordance: "circle"..."describe a circle." Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament: "Circle...the earth conceived as a disc, Is 40:22." Hebrew-Aramaic and English Lexicon of the Old Testament: "draw round, make a circle." If Isaiah actually meant "sphere" he could have used the Hebrew word duwr, meaning "ball" as he did in Isaiah 22:18.)



(But what is particularly significant is that the Jewish scholars who translated the Hebrew scriptures into the Greek Septuagint during the third century B.C. used the Greek word gyron--γῦρον--meaning circle, instead of "sphaíra"--σφαίρα--meaning sphere, for their translation of the Hebrew chuwg in Isaiah 40:22. So those scholars CLEARLY understood what Isaiah was saying, in contrast to those today who ignorantly say that chuwg means "sphere.")



Underneath the flat disk of the earth is the abyss, the bottomless pit, which is referred to several times in the Bible (ex. Rev. 9:1,2).



That is also what is being referred to in Job 26:7 when it says that the earth hangs over nothing. (The Hebrew word translated "upon" in the KJV also means "over.") The actual sphere of the earth in space is not "suspended' or "hanging" "over" or "upon" nothing. It is orbiting the sun at 66,700 miles per hour. If the earth can be considered "hanging" over anything, it is the sun, which certainly is NOT nothing.



Several other verses in the Bible also indicate the earth is flat, such as Nebuchadnezzar's vision in Dan 4:10-11 (the tree could not be seen from all the earth if it were not flat). Dan 2:28 states that the visions of Nebuchadnezzar are from God. If the biblical god says the biblical earth is flat, it must be flat.



The original Hebrew word translated as firmament is raqiya, which is a noun derived from the Hebrew word raqa. That word is a verb meaning "to beat out," and is used in the bible in reference to beating out metal into plates or expanses of the metal (as in Exodus 39:3). So raqiya, as a noun, would literally mean "that which is beaten out."



The biblical firmament, or sky, is therefore a solid, beaten out expanse or vault set on the rim of the flat disk of the earth. That is confirmed in Job 37:18, which states:



"Can you beat out the vault of the skies as he does,

hard as a mirror of cast metal?" (New English Bible).



There, the Hebrew word translated as "beat out" (or "spread out" in other versions) is, as noted above, raqa.



The solid, or firm, nature of the biblical firmament is also indicated by Proverbs 8:27-28:



27. When he established the heavens...

28. When he made firm the skies above... [ASV, ESV, NRSV, NASV, NAB]



The Hebrew word translated as "firm" there is amats, which has a meaning of "be hard".



The solid vault of heaven is also implied in verses such as Deut 4:32:



"Ask now about the former days, long before your time, from the day God created man on the earth; ask from one end of the heavens to the other. Has anything so great as this ever happened, or has anything like it ever been heard of?"



The "ends of heaven" would be the base of the vault of heaven where it rests on the rim of the disk of the earth.



See also Ps 19:1-6, Isaiah 13:4-5, and, particularly, Matt 24:31, which states Jesus as saying:



"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."



The elect are those on the earth who will be saved in the last days. Jesus is saying there that the angels would gather the elect from all over the earth, from one side, or end, of the base of the vault of heaven to the other side or end, from the east, west, north, and south, which is what the reference to the four winds means.



Isaiah 34:4 likewise indicates that the firmament is solid rather than being the upper atmosphere or the emptiness of space.



"the skies will roll up like a scroll,

and all the stars will fall"



The material making up the vault of the firmament will roll up, and the stars that were attached to it will fall to the earth.



The solid vault of heaven has a specific purpose in the Bible. As the Genesis story in chapter one indicates, the whole cosmos consisted of water before the creation process began. As it is described in the Genesis creation story, god created the firmament of heaven on the second day so it would hold back the waters above the firmament when he created the earth on the third day.



6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.



So that passage clearly indicates that the purpose of the solid firmament was to hold back the waters above the heaven. Furthermore, those waters continued to exist in the biblical cosmos, as indicated by Psalm 104:1-3 and Psalm 148:4. Also, the firmament of heaven has windows that are opened to let the water above the firmament fall as rain, as indicated by Genesis 7:11 and 8:2,



The stars in the biblical cosmos are just lights set in the firmament. As mere lights in the sky, they will fall to the earth in the Last Days (Matt 24:29), which conflicts with finding that the actual stars are other suns and many times larger than the earth.



So, according to the Bible the earth is a flat, immovable disk, supported by pillars and covered with a solid vault of heaven, the rim of which is is resting on the perimeter of the disk of the earth, and the stars are just lights set in the vault of heaven.



That this is the correct view of the biblical cosmos is shown by the fact that it describes a structure with parts that are fully consistent with each other. That structural consistency indicates that it accurately represents the cosmos as conceived by the ancient Hebrews and as its writers incorporated that view in the Bible.



In addition, according to the Bible, earth is the centerpiece of creation and in the Last Days god will destroy the earth and the heavens and create a new heaven and earth as part of his plan for mankind. (2 Peter 3:10-13).



Is that really realistic considering the vastness of the universe and its enormous number of galaxies? In the actual universe that science has uncovered, the earth is an insignificant mote, even more insignificant than the size of an atom is with respect to the size of the earth. Watch the three-minute video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9gy_BOnEOM&app=desktop



It is the height of geocentric IDIOCY to think that the whole universe was created merely for the sake of the earth and its inhabitants.



All of which goes to show that the cosmos that the god of the Bible is described as having created does not exist, and since that non-existent cosmos is an attribute and manifestation of that god, that god does not exist either.



So, we atheists need no alternative hypothesis on how this universe exists, because there is no alternative explanation since the alternative explanation that you have provided has nothing to do with reality.
Selvy
2017-11-08 13:44:01 UTC
Science is the alternative hypothesis.
numlock
2017-11-08 12:39:01 UTC
invisible magic people aren't real...no matter how bad you've been brainwashed by your religious cult...
2017-11-08 09:52:31 UTC
Have you got 10 years free?



That's how long it takes to get a doctorate in cosmology...
2017-11-08 08:40:38 UTC
Their hypothesis is magic.



The rest of us don't "presume" God created it, we KNOW He did.
?
2017-11-08 08:11:42 UTC
No, man only made up a story that a god enity he invented created the universe. It is not presumed one did, at least not by the non delusional.



How the universe exists via science (the sustainable version):



1. It has been proven energy cannot be created or destroyed and is therefore eternal.



2. Energy is without mass and can therefore exist outside of spacetime.



3. As can be observed in every atom in the universe, energy can transfom from energy to mass and back to energy without a cause.



Therefore eternal energy outside of spacetime can turn into mass, without a cause, to create a spacetime universe.







How the universe can't exist via a god (the unsustainable god version):



1. A god would need a cause to exist and would need to come from somewhere. Claiming a god just exists and is eternal is totally unsustainable in terms of what we know about spacetime and the requirements of being eternal.



2. Thought, desire, loneliness, want and need all need tangibles to exist. You cannot think about, desire, be lonely for, want or need nothing.



3. In order for a god to create it would (all of) need to be able to think about, need and want to create.



4. Given that before a god creates there would be nothing, a god could not think about creating, wouldn't want to create or feel a need to create.



5. So, the bottom line is simple: In order for god to create a universe, it would need a cause which could only be seeing a naturally occuring universe before it could think about, want or feel the need to create one, by which time it would be pointless as a natural one would already exist.



Awwwwww isn't that just too bad. But hey, thanks for the profound and unanswerable question. ROTFLMFAO.



Now, theists, time to thumbs down without an explanation why.
Noose
2017-11-08 07:58:04 UTC
Whatever the answer is, can not be demonstrated because if they dare demonstrate it, they'll prove creationism by precisely designing (using intelligence) and creating just like God did.
2017-11-08 07:56:55 UTC
It's pretty simple, energy cannot be created or destroyed it only changes form, it always existed, as the law suggests and always moved in an endless cycle of expansion, contraction, big bang, big crunch, big bang. The stars burn out, then they turn into black holes, these suck up everything then with no propulsion left and only gravity as a force, it doesn't matter how weak it is, but bear in mind that dark energy is supposed to make up the vast majority of energy in the universe so if that all gets sucked into the black holes, this would add to their gravity, and the calculations of scientists who have an endless expansion theory calculate dark energy not just continuing to push the expansion but increasing in it's effect, even though they have no idea what it is, they assume it acts like nothing that exists that they do know about.



All energy has gravity according to general relativity, and I can't imagine how they would assume that dark energy is unlike any other energy simply because it's too small for our technology to detect, apart from the perceived pushing effect it has, on the expansion of the universe. That's the only way they even know that anything is there. In my view if something is there, it's energy, dark because you can't see it, but energy, that has gravity, and that will be sucked into black holes, when all the stars burn out and become trillions and trillions of black holes, from which nothing can escape. These pool together and form larger and larger ones, in the middle of every galaxy is one millions of stars in mass, the black hole galaxies merge, forming black holes trillions of stars in mass, until there are only a few left, and with all the energy in the universe in a few places, on some sort of oval shaped orbit, it's just a matter of how long it takes to come back, it's not a matter of if, it's when, then bang. They don't just evaporate, that's ridiculous.
2017-11-08 07:55:13 UTC
They don't know. But somehow they know it wasn't created. I don't know how they know that.


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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