Question:
Jesus 'dying for our sins'?
bleedcoltsblue
2006-09-14 10:41:13 UTC
Jesus supposedly dies for the sins of the people of the world. It is presented to us as the ultimate show of love for us by the Christian 'god'. "For god so LOVED the WORLD that he gave his only Begotten son.........".

Ok, few questions.

1. If Jesus didn't exist before he was made by God and Mary, then really how much of a sacrafice was it for God to give up this son, with whom he had no relationship with before it was born?

2. If Jesus was just going to come back three days later after making this ultimate sacrafice with more powers and abilities than before, then what exactly did God and Jesus 'give up' when he died? Could God not contact Jesus while he was 'dead' (for 3 days)?

3. If every man is the son of God, (and none of THEM have ever been resurrected, save Lazarus) wouldn't it have been more of a sacrafice for God to have someone to die for our sins that COULDN'T just pop back up three days later and be A-OK?

Just wondering....
Sixteen answers:
XYZ
2006-09-14 10:43:23 UTC
Oh, come on... there you go again using logic...
BC
2006-09-14 23:24:53 UTC
Point 1) Jesus did exist throughout eternity with God; the Scriptures are very clear on this issue in many vereses; here is only one:

John 1:1 -- And the Word [Jesus] was with God, and the Word was God.



But you also ask, "how was Jesus begotten?" This is a good question.



Jesus was begotten in a few different ways. 1) He divested himself of his godhood, and was begotten in the flesh when he was conceived in Mary's womb; 2) Although Jesus had God's holy spirit even in the womb, he was symbolically begotten again, as an example to his followers, when he received the holy spirit at baptism; 3) and finally, he was BORN into the family of God when he rose from the dead.



This was all done as an example to us. We are all begotten by our human fathers, begotten again spiritually when we are converted and receive the holy spirit of God; and those who are spiritually begotten of God will be BORN into God's family at the resurrection upon the return of Jesus to this earth.



Point 2) When Jesus died, he was dead! Death does not mean one goes and lives elsewhere, death means to cease to live. God could not talk to Jesus while he was dead. And after an eternity of his companionship, even this long would be a sacrifice. Also, Jesus did not acquire MORE powers and authority than he had prior to his conception, he took again what he had (John 17:5); and possibly a little less, as he said that the Father was greater than he, whereas before, they were equal.



Point 3) The purpose of God's plan is not to sacrifice as much as he possibly can; the purpose is to lead people by example to his Kingdom and righteousness. God took on a suffering and sacrifice that he was not obliged to do. We, however, are deserving of punishment and death for our many sins. Jesus died that the law of God could be satisfied. If he didn't, then we would have had to die for our own sins, and we do not have eternal life so that we could just pop back up again; we would be dead forever. God is the giver of life, not death.



John 10:10 - "...I [Jesus] have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly."
splitshell
2006-09-14 18:16:04 UTC
1. Jesus did exist before the New Testament. Some say that the priest Melchizadek in the OT was a form of Jesus.



2. When you are part of God's perfection for all eternity and then have all the sin of every being that has lived or ever will live piled on you that is a huge sacrifice. And no, God cut Jesus off when that happened.



3. No just plain human would be good enough to sacrifice in that way.



Think of every thing you have ever done wrong (killing, stealing, cheating, tax evasion, lying, gossip, slander, speeding when the limit is clearly posted, anything) as a penny that needs to be paid.



Now add them all up, then multiply by every human being that has ever lived or ever will. That's a chunk of change!



Only God himself could pay for it, so instead of punishing us directly, He pays the bill himself by having the part of him that is Jesus die for it.



But now the bill is paid and since Jesus is part of God and immortal, he cannot stay dead. He is more powerful than death.



All one has to do is admit the need for someone else to pay the penalty for us and heaven awaits.



It's like someone offering to buy you lunch. You can refuse and pay your own way (hell) or you can accept and graciously say thanks.
oldguy63
2006-09-14 17:54:25 UTC
1. Jesus is an eternal being, He did exist before He was born to Mary. The Bible teaches that from cover to cover.



2. What do you mean "just" come back three days later. Can you just come back three days after you die. he Bible says in Romans 1 that that just coming back from the death demonstrated that He is he Son of God. What He gave up was His life so that you can have eternal life. Sure God could contact Him during those three days, so what is the issue there?



3.Every man is not the son of God, they are all created by Him but only those who believe in Him becomes sons of God. (Lazarus was not he only one raised from the dead, there were a number more) No one else could die for others sins because they all had their own sins to die for. Jesus was the only perfect man who could make tha sacrifice.
howcanitbe
2006-09-14 17:53:24 UTC
1. Jesus had a relationship with God from the beginning, hence the triune God ( Father, Son, & Holy Spirit) 2. Jesus did not necessarily know he would be resurected. What he gave up was his life with God. As for contact with God while he was dead, the definition of Hell to most Christians is "the absence of God", therefore, when he was in Hell there was no contact. 3. Every man is only the son of God through Jesus.
j-Z
2006-09-14 18:25:08 UTC
In response to your additional comments...



You are making comments about things within the Bible and it is pretty clear you haven't read (maybe recently) what exactly is within the covers. Rather than going in depths here - just open it up and begin reading for yourself. You are obviously very curious about this topic - so go for it. Most of your questions are based in misinformation (ex Jesus didn't exist before...) so I think it is easiest for you to go grab a Bible and start searching on your own. There are many Bible study helps (if you're like me) online in various places. Check out www.biblegateway.com) to search topics and keywords you're interested in. 2 cents
anonymous
2006-09-14 18:22:27 UTC
answer to question 1: Every person is a 'son of God' -- we are made in the image of the Pattern (pathos/father), meaning we are living expressions of the Pattern. We all have the purpose to uncover and awaken to our own Christ Mind. Christ Mind is the conscious realization of being one with the Pattern. We are naturally in Christ Mind without human conditioning (the 'beast'). There's no such thing as supernatural, only sub-natural which is what humans are when they are conditioned to the system of the 'beast.'



answer to question 2 : Judging by your questions, you seem to be suffering from PTSD (post traumatic scripture disorder) The other end of the pole (which is your 'argument') seems to be fundamentalist Christians who read scriptures literally? (through the 'eyes' of conditioning !!!!(the 'beast'). You're totally missing the deeper hidden meaning by assuming that scriptures must be read through a veil of ignorance. The true, righteous message of the scriptures (and Christ) ALWAYS points to a radical over turning of the greed based social structure: a Revolution against the 'beast' (human conditioning) and the freedom of society at large. Christ is the revolutionary light of awareness in all of us that, when awakened, passionately cries out NO MORE TO INJUSTICE and INHUMANITY.



Your eyes are obviously still very tainted from Christianity. But Christ has nothing to do with religion or any other institution of the 'beast' (human conditioning system).



The Pattern and Christ gave up nothing because what is Real can never be lost. Christ was aware of being the Pattern so he WAS the Pattern in conscious life. And so are we all intended to Be. There is no pedestal in the Pattern; the pedestal is a product of the 'beast' and with it comes greed, jealousy, hatred, injustice, war, and overall chaos on the collective human mind.



answer to question 3 : By overcoming death in his realization of being the Pattern (which you also are, being a son of God), Jesus Christ fulfilled his function to plant a seed into the collective consciousness of humanity. So that we ALL could awaken to the Truth of who we ARE: living expressions of the Pattern that underlies all growth and development in the Kosmos. (CHRIST!) Created in the image of 'God' yet oblivious to what this actually means till we are voluntarily unhooked from false human conditioning (the beast). Once we're unhooked we are naturally aware of who we are - and suffering has no power over us anymore. :-)

thats my understanding
anonymous
2006-09-14 17:48:40 UTC
Jesus was a great soul or bodhissatva who chose to reincarnate in order that humanity would have a role model, a person who embodied the highest moral virtue. Don't see Jesus as a saviour who can atone for your sins see him as a guide and an example to follow. Be like Christ-don't worship him.
Terri
2006-09-14 17:50:17 UTC
You might also ask, what does it mean to 'die for our sins'... our sins certainly killed him, society held tightly to a system that deprived the poor and sick of care, and Jesus kept on bucking the system, it made people very angry, and he died for it. He said, remember me, long before the disciples understood he would be killed, and yet we persist on his words meaning to remember his death and Resurrection vs. remembering his life and how he taught us to live with one another...



I guess that's not really answering your question, some Christians believe: #1: Jesus existed before he came to earth, just not in a human body. "The Word was with God and the Word was God" #2: His death was not about 'giving up' anything, but instead about claiming and proving something, that something is dominance over death and destruction, dominance over 'evil'... Jesus is risen (in our hearts or literally) and Jesus wins! #3, again, it is not really about sacrifice, it is about proof of Power (oops.. watch out for that power.. it can be misused!).
fiveshiftone
2006-09-14 17:47:26 UTC
He had to do it this way! It's the only known way to alchemically create a super-energized version of a "sin-eater", someone who is paid to take clients' sins, put them into his food, and eat them so that he can neutralize them inside his body. <=D First step: Get a virgin pregnant with a god's child! Second step: Have him talk about how everybody should just try being nice to each other, so that he gets nailed to a tree and eats everybody's sins! Then bring him back from the dead.



Sins eat'd!
april_hwth
2006-09-14 17:43:34 UTC
Read the Bible, Jesus was created in the beginning.



It's in the first part of the gospel of John. "Word" means "Jesus." There are other places that talks about Jesus being there the entire time.



Jesus was resurrected to show that he was/is more than a human. Death has no control over him like it does us.
Mim
2006-09-14 17:49:52 UTC
not at all but Jesus ( yeshua ) was with God from the begining and he knew what he would sever before he was born yet he was willing to make that sacrifice for Me becouse he loves me if you chose to reject his love you deserve hell
abdulaziiz
2006-09-14 17:44:10 UTC
The sign of Jonah =people thought he was dead but never died
bonzo the tap dancing chimp
2006-09-14 17:47:58 UTC
The answers to these questions are very simple - you are going to Hell because you are pawn of Satan.
(_O_) ass after prison
2006-09-14 17:45:04 UTC
you are a fag
anonymous
2006-09-14 17:47:23 UTC
dealing with God, we took up the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the second person of the Trinity. In this web page we consider The Person and work of the Lord Jesus in greater detail. The proper understanding of His Person and work is fundamental to the gospel and to Christianity as a whole.

This study centers around the incarnate Christ. The first study is of the preincarnation of Christ. This is followed by a study of His life. We then consider the very important topic of His death followed by an examination of His resurrection. No study of the Lord Jesus Christ would be complete without a pondering of His present ministry. Finally, the matter of His second coming will be presented. If you wish, you may click on the particular topic.



THE PREINCARNATION OF CHRIST



The first aspect of the preincarnation of Christ concerns the Deity of Christ. There were those (and probably still are) who accept the pre-existence of Christ but denied that He is equal with God. John 5:23 states that "all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father." It is thus dishonoring to both the Father and the Son to make Christ something less than God.



1. The divine names. Several names are applied to the Lord Jesus Christ in the Bible. Some have definite reference to His humanity; others clearly show His Deity.

a. Names of eternal relationship. There are at least four names that speak of Christ's eternal relationship.

1) The term "Word". The term Word (Logos) certainly set forth the Deity of Jesus Christ. This is clearly set forth in John 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God; and the Word was God." There is no justification in the Greek for the rendering of the last part of this verse as "the Word was a God." That this verse refers to Jesus Christ is evident from John 1:14 (Cf. also 1:18). This was not a mere abiding of the Person of God in Christ. Notice it clearly says "the Word was God." "In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9). Thus, everything that God is, Jesus Christ is.

2) The word "Only Begotten". The phrase Only Begotten likewise sets forth the uniqueness of Jesus Christ as God. He is eternally the Only Begotten. He is not just God and not a Son which leads to tritheism; nor is He the Son and not God which leads to Arianism (and the more modern form found in the sect, Jehovah Witnesses). This unique title appears in John 1:14, 18 and again is used by Jesus in 3:16-18.

3) The word "image". Another important word is image. This term is used in Colossians 1:15 where He is declared to be the "image of the invisible God." In a real sense when we have seen Jesus (now by faith; then by sight), we have seen God the Father. Jesus said as much in John 14:9. A related term is expressed image (exact imprint) set forth in Hebrews 1:3. Thus, again every thing the Father is, Jesus Christ is.

4) The phrase "First-Begotten. The final phrase First-Begotten, sometimes rendered "First-Born", is used in three different connections. He is the "First-Begotten" of all creation. This does not mean He is the first created being. Rather it sets forth precedence and cause of all beings. (Cf. Colossians 1:16) This idea is set forth in Romans 8:29 and Colossians 1:15 and speaks of His self- existence eternally. It is used as the "firstborn" of Mary shown in Matthew 1:25 and Luke 2:7 in contrast to His eternal sonship. Hebrews 1:6 may be a bridge between the two concepts. Lastly, the phrase is used as being the first to be raised from the dead to eternal physical life (The others resurrected before Him all died physically). This truth is set forth in Colossians 1:18 and Revelation 1:5 and is suggested by Romans 8:29.

b. Names of Deity. The word God, with a very few exceptions, refers to the true God, Jehovah (or Yahweh, if you prefer).

1) Two passages in Isaiah. Isaiah (40 :3) is referred to in regard to John the Baptist's ministry and evidently applied to Jesus Christ. Isaiah 7:14 sets forth Emmanuel (God with us) and definitely applied to Jesus at His birth (Matthew 1:23).

2) Thomas's confession. Jesus did not rebuke Thomas who declared when he saw the resurrected Jesus, "My Lord and My God" (John 20:28). Instead He commended Thomas for believing this fact.

3) Some New Testament passages. Titus 2:13 declares Jesus Christ to "the Great God and our Savior Jesus Christ." To try to separate the phrase "the great God" from Jesus Christ is a gross misinterpretation. The verse declares the "glorious appearing [bold type for emphasis] of the great God and our Savior"; it is the appearance of the Lord Jesus Christ that is in view here. In Acts 20:28, Paul speaks of "the church of God" and then proceeds to state "which He purchased with His own blood. [bold type for emphasis]" By all rules of grammar the antecedent of these pronouns is the word "God." Hebrews 1:8 applies Psalm 45:6 to the Son and thus, obviously, to Jesus Christ.

4) The word "Jehovah". The name Jehovah (or Yaweh) is uniquely the name for God. The New Testament equivalent (whether a person wants to admit it or not) is Lord. One needs to compare Isaiah 8:13, 14 with 1 Peter 2:7, 8.

In Isaiah the stone of stumbling is the "LORD of hosts"; in Peter, it is referred to the Lord Jesus Christ. Furthermore, the full name of Jesus is the LORD Jesus Christ.

The Septuigent (LXX) repeatedly used the Greek word Kurios as the rendering of "Jehovah." This Greek word is everywhere rendered "Lord" in the New Testament. The phrase "The First and the Last" occurs at least three times in Isaiah (41:4, 44:6, and 48:12) applied to the Jehovah God; it is applied to Jesus Christ in Revelation 1:11, 17; 2:8; and 22:13.



2. The Divine attributes. The attributes of God are ascribed in various ways to Jesus Christ.

a. Eternity. Micah speaking of Christ says His "goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." John (1:1) uses the phrase "In the beginning" in reference to the Word. That this might refer to Genesis 1:1 may well be true, but John is straining at language here to present the eternal existence of the Word. He states, "In the beginning was the Word." The tense of the verb (both in English and Greek) speaks of a past prior to the word "beginning." Colossians 1:17 states that "He is before all things." Furthermore, all things consist or hold together by Him.

b. Immutability. Immutability has to do with the changelessness of God. Malachi 3:6 states, "I am the Lord, I change not." Hebrews 13:8 restates this truth in regard to Jesus Christ. (Cf. Hebrews 1:11, 12).

c. Omnipotence. Almighty, or all powerful, is something that is true of Deity only. Besides displaying His power in healing, calming the seas, etc. Philippians 3:21 states that He is "able even to subdue all things unto Himself." 1 Corinthians 15:28 shows "all things shall be subdued unto Him."

d. Omniscience. Being all-knowing is again an attribute that only pertains to God. Jeremiah 17:10 shows that God knows our very being. Likewise, Christ is said to know the thoughts of men. This same idea is presented in Revelation 2:23. Matthew 11:27 shows the mutual knowledge of Jesus Christ and God the Father (Cf. John 10:15).

e. Omnipresence. Psalm 139:7ff. shows this truth concerning God. John 14:23 shows that God the Father and Jesus Christ would make their abode with the believer. In the great commission (Matthew 28:20) Jesus promised to be with us "unto the end of the world."



3. The Divine works. The works of Jesus Christ sets forth His deity. Here this writer is concerned with those works that are preincarnate.

a. Creation. It is obvious that creative work is the providence of Deity. John 1:3 plainly states, "All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made." (Also see John 1:10). Again, Colossians 1:16 states, "For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, . . .; all things were created by Him, and for Him." Hebrews 1:3 states concerning the Son, "by Whom also He made the worlds." Of course, the He in this verse refers to the Father, but it was the Son Who did the creating. Hebrews 1:10 again states this truth.

b. Preservation. God preserves His creation. This is again the work of the Son, Jesus Christ. Colossians 1:17 so declares, "By Him all things consist [or hold together]." Jesus Christ is the power that holds the atom together notwithstanding the splitting of the atom. Hebrews 1:3 likewise expresses this thought.

c. Forgiveness of sin. In spite of what certain religionists say today, no man has the power to forgive sins. The scribes were right when they said, "Who can forgive sins but God only?" The same passage (v. 10) shows that Jesus had that power as God. Acts 5:31 shows to also to be the case. Colossians 3:13 (and also Ephesians 4:32) states, "even as Christ has forgiven you."

d. The resurrection of the dead. It is true that others were given the power from God to raise people from the dead (Peter with Dorcas for example); only Jesus Christ is said to be the resurrection and the life. It is upon His voice that the dead rise (Cf. John 5:25ff.). 1 Corinthians 15:21 shows that resurrection is by Jesus Christ.

e. All judgment. That God is the final Judge of all men is certainly clear from a perusal of the Bible (Cf. Psalm 9:7, 8). John 5:22 clearly declares, "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son." Acts 17:11 also presents this truth. Although the One sitting on the great white throne (Revelation 20:12ff.) is not specified, it is evident that it must be Jesus Christ since all judgment is committed unto Him.



4. The Old Testament Messiah. That the Messiah of the Old Testament is the same as the Christ of the New is evident by the meaning of the words themselves. The fact remains that Messiah is often set forth to be Jehovah. Psalm 2:2 sets forth Jehovah and the "Anointed" (Messiah in the Hebrew) as two distinct Persons. Yet Messiah is spoken of as Jehovah. a. The examination of passages. This writer now considers some of the primary passages dealing with Messiah.

1) Deuteronomy 30:3. Deuteronomy 30:3 sets forth the truth that Jehovah Elohim will be the one who will return which is not possible if He has not been here. Only the Messiah (Christ) can fit this description and here declared to be the Lord God.

2) Jeremiah 33:14-17. Likewise, Jeremiah 33:14-17 suggests that the Messiah, described as the Branch of righteousness and yet of David, is set forth as "the Lord our righteousness." That this applies to Jesus Christ is evident by the angel's announcement to Mary (Cf. Luke 1:31-35).

3) Isaiah 9:6, 7. Similarly, Isaiah 9:6, 7 speaks of the child born and son given as "The mighty God, The everlasting Father." Both humanity--"a child is born", and Deity--"a son is given", are combined in one Person. This Person is in turn described as "The Mighty God, The everlasting Father, the Prince of peace."

4) Zechariah 9:9. Zechariah 9:9 sets forth the triumphal entry of Christ (Messiah) into Jerusalem "having salvation." Yet verse 16 declares that it is "Jehovah their God" that saves them. The Old Testament knows of only one King who will sit on the one throne of His father David. Those who deny an earthly reign of Jesus Christ must allegorize such passages. He is King of kings and Lord of lords as Revelation 19:16 declares.

5) Isaiah 40:1-3. Isaiah 40:1-3 sets forth comfort to Israel and concludes, "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord [Jehovah], make straight in the desert a highway for our God." John the Baptist declared that he was that voice. Each of the four Gospels declare this fact. That John was speaking of Jesus Christ as the one for Whom he was preparing is evident.

6) Jeremiah 23:5, 6. Jeremiah 23:5, 6 ties it all together, for, he speaks of a righteous Branch being raised unto David and a King who will save. The name of this One is THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. That Jeremiah is speaking of the Messiah is clear, indeed.

b. The Angel of Jehovah. The preexistence of Christ is clearly set forth in the Angel of Jehovah. The manifestation of God in a visible and bodily form prior to the incarnation is called a theophany. The most common theophany is that of the Angel of Jehovah.

1) Identified as Jehovah. The Angel of Jehovah is set forth as Jehovah. Genesis 16:7-13 shows this same identification. When Isaac was to be sacrificed by Abraham (Genesis 22:11-18), the Angel of Jehovah is shown to be Jehovah. Some other passages are Genesis 31:11-13; 48:15, 16; Exodus 3:1ff; Exodus 13:21; 14:19; Judges 6:11-13; and 13:9-20.

2) Separate from Jehovah. Yet the Angel of Jehovah is set forth as a Person distinct from Jehovah. Such passages as Genesis 24:7, 40 and Numbers 20:16 show this distinction. Zechariah 1:12, 13 has the Angel of Jehovah speaking to Jehovah. Other passages seem also to make this distinction such as Exodus 23:20; 32:34; 1 Chronicles 21:15-18; Isaiah 63:9; and Daniel 3:25-28. Judges 2:1-5 (see also 2 Kings 19:35) sets forth the deity of the Angel of Jehovah without clear identification with Jehovah. It can be proved that the Angel of Jehovah is the Second Person of the Trinity. The argument is too long to include in this web site. This writer refers you to Chafer's Systematic Theology, V:32, 33.



5. The Biblical Statements. There are numerous passages in the New Testament that assert the pre-existence of Christ. Some are implied statements and a few are positive ones.

a. Indirect statements. The indirect statements are primarily found in John's Gospel. These are merely mentioned here. They include John 1:14 where it is stated "The Word became flesh"; John 1:15, 18, and 30 suggest His pre-incarnation; John 3:16, 17, 31 set forth the idea that God sent His Son into the world; John 6:33, 44, 50, 51, 57, 58 all imply from Jesus' lips that He is pre-existed; John 7:29; John 8:23, 42; John 9:39; and John 17:14, 18 show that He was not of this world and was sent into the world. Philippians 2:8 states that He was "found in fashion as a man." Hebrews 2:14 tells us that He partook of (in the sense of "becoming") flesh and blood. Some of these verses are in the direct passages to be considered, but here they were considered individually. Though we have not analyzed these verses in detail, a cursory look will show the implication.

b. Direct passages. The New Testament is clear in presenting positive evidence of the pre-existence of Christ. These passages will be considered to some extent although a detailed exposition will not be given.

1) John 1 passage. John 1:1-4, 14 clearly sets forth this truth. In verses 1-4 the Word is set forth as being with God and being God from the beginning. Then in verse 14 it is stated that "The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, . . . ." It is obvious that Jesus Christ is in view here.

2) John 6 passage. John 6:33, 38, 41, 50, 51, 58, 62 set forth a sevenfold declaration by God that He came from heaven. Verse 62 clearly states, "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where He was before?" Although a question rather than a statement, it is a direct statement in question form. It is only unbelief that rejects this plain statement or tries to allegorize it in some way.

3) John 8 passage. John 8:58, 59 clearly set forth His pre-existence. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I am." The Jews took up stones to stone Him because they fully understood the clear meaning of His words, namely, He was claiming pre-existence even claiming deity. That they understood Him to be claiming this is clear from John 10:33 where they fully understood Him when they said, "Because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

4) Jesus' prayer in John 17. John 17:5 plainly states, "And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own Self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was." What clearer passage do we need? This verse shows that He pre-existed before the world was. He is simply requesting that the glory He set aside when He came to earth be restored. The details of this verse have been explored by many others and need not be of concern here.

5) Philippians 2:6-11. One of the most important and yet most controversial passages concerning this truth is Philippians 2:6-11. In particular, verse 6 is in view: "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." For a detailed exposition of this verse and the one following, a number of good commentaries can be recommended. It was discussed to some extent on the web page God the Son under the heading of "The emptying." It is a terse statement that states His pre-existence and essential deity as well as the setting aside His glory to come to be mankind's Saviour.



The arguments set forth here show without doubt (except for those who refuse to accept the testimony of Scripture) the pre-existence of Christ. These are clearly applied to the Lord Jesus. We next consider the matter of Christ Incarnate. There are really several parts to this covering His life from His birth to His death and resurrection, His death and resurrection itself, His present ministry and finally His second coming. The next subject is thus that of His incarnate life


This content was originally posted on Y! Answers, a Q&A website that shut down in 2021.
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