What do Christians mean by "nothing"?

Question

Specifically, when they accuse atheists of believing the universe came from "nothing".

1. Nothing = a state in which nothing exists. e.g. "There is nothing inside this box"
2. Nothing = not anything. e.g. "Nothing is greater than God"

They criticise Lawrence Krauss for calling a vacuum "nothing", but if a vacuum isn't nothing then what is? If there's no space or time for the potential for things to exist in, then saying there's "nothing" is incoherent. We're no longer talking about a state of nothingness, since it's impossible for there to be any state at all. We could only be talking about nothing defined as "not anything".

In the same way we could say "nothing is greater than infinity" or "nothing can travel faster than light". We do not mean "nothing" as an actual object or state of affairs, but are simply negating all things. For this reason, saying the universe came from nothing would be saying the universe didn't come from anything. i.e. the universe never came into existence at all (it always existed).

By this reasoning it would be perfectly valid to say God came from nothing, meaning God didn't come from anything.

Answer 1

Typically, the Christians who say that are ignorant of the Big Bang Theory.

Specifically, they are ignorant regarding what that theory proposes is the source of the matter and energy that exist in our Universe.



The Big Bang Theory proposes that a singularity, undergoing a transformation called "the Big Bang", became our Universe, and that it took billions of years of formation after "the Big Bang" for our Universe to reach its current state..



The Christians who say "the Universe came from nothing" believe that the Big Bang Theory proposes that the Universe did NOT come from a singularity. They think the Big Bang Theory proposes that

- nothing existed (not even a singularity)

- a big bang - that came from nothing and was caused by nothing - caused existence to come into being





Conclusion: the accusation "you believe the Universe came from nothing" is just ignorance about the Big Bang Theory. It's not surprising - scientific theories are often of little or no interest to people, not just Christians. However, it so happens that some Christians (Young Earth Creationists) religiously reject that theory - even when they don't know what the theory proposes.

Answer 2

Interesting. Well done.

Perhaps you are looking in the right direction when you describe nothing as 'not anything'

But that invites the counter argument - - - - not anything = some thing.

And then the debate devolves into a meaningless circle.

Others consider the term 'no thing' as better (also no where) Thus it can be more easily grasped - as a concept, rather than trying to invoke logic, maths, or science.

Especially for scientists, who are forever trying to explain things in terms of other things that they don't understand anyway.

"the more scientists learn, the less they know"



After all, we cannot see or measure darkness, cold or belief, only be aware of the effect.



Added - though an Atheist, I am not saying theists are wrong or mad! Far from it.

I am merely contributing to a debate about nothing :)



And I have plenty of respect for our Mr Krauss. A learned and very intelligent person. he used vacuum instead of darkness because

a) he would have needed another book to explain it

and

b) he wanted something that even idiots could relate to.

I asked him.

Answer 3

Doesn't matter. That's not what defines an atheist. What defines an atheist is that they don't believe in a god. As to the origins of the universe, atheist can believe anything they want. If their origin theory does not contain a god, they are atheists.



While I suspect that the simple answer is "there was never nothing", my honest answer is "I don't know how the universe came to be, but since I do not believe there is a god, I do not attribute ANYTHING to a god.

Answer 4

The biblical meaning is best given in Hebrews 11:3 - By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible."



Christians believe that God has always existed, so there never has been a state of nothing. God is not nothing. God is not something. God is everything!



But as far as our universe goes, it did not exist at one point, and then God caused it to exist, by His decree. Time had to be created at the point of this astounding event, along with space and matter, for our universe requires all three of those dimensions in order to exist. The Bible points out that God created our universe out of what was not visible. That fits in beautifully with the Big Bang theory, for no human could ever have seen the intensely compacted atom that suddenly expanded. Also, it fits in with Genesis saying that the first thing God created was light. Nobody can see anything without light, right? And light has myriad forms, visible light being but one form. Prior to visible light arising with the first stars, the other forms of light were at work, giving rise to the formation of stars, which caused visible light to first appear in our black universe.



Well, I hope that helps. It is amazing how much truth is packed into that little verse in Hebrews 11:3, truth that we can only now begin to make some sense of with scientific discoveries that prove the truth of it.

Answer 5

What they mean by it doesn't really matter. Krauss recognises the different ideas people have about "nothing" but isn't going to debate on it. It's an irrelevance to his science.



For a mathematician moving Einstein's cosmological term from the left to the right is easy. For a physicist it is harder.



So what contributes such a term. The answer is nothing because it is the opposite of where all the energy in the universe resides.



An elementary school student will tell you the amount of energy contained in nothing is nothing but they haven't studied relativity or quantum mechsnics (yet), if they had they would see it's not as simple as that.



EDIT: Krauss sets out what nothing is in his book "A Universe From Nothing": 'By nothing, I do not mean nothing, but rather nothing in this case, the nothingness we normally call empty space.'

Answer 6

At the moment of the Big Bang physics came into existence along with the laws of cause and effect. The universe is the first effect, so therefore there has to be a first cause or causer. Here is an equation that it seems some atheists are saying.



Cause and Effect:



Cause--Nothing

Effect--Universe



Theists are saying



Cause--God

Universe--Effect



There has to be something that caused the universe--outside of space and time



A vacuum exists inside of space and time so logically that doesn't make sense. Here is the definition of vacuum:



1.



a space entirely devoid of matter.



As you can see a vacuum has to occupy space. There was no space before the big bang

Answer 7

The answer is simple all the atheist has to do is show where the universe came from. The problem is that the answer leads to Satre's position of the absurd

Answer 8

As a Christian sometimes I have thought about something similar. At the seed level something existed (energy/God or matter). 'Nothing' could basically mean unorganized/chaos. Could God be the remnant of a previous gallactic war?

Answer 9

What do we mean by nothing? Nothing, devoid of anything thinkable. Space physics does not apply to God. He created all that is perceivable. He surpasses it.We are the product of God's perception .

Answer 10

"Space/Time" is something. ... Even empty space is something; or, in mathematical terms: the null set is a set. - That 13+ billion years ago their suddenly appeared a kernel (or "singularity") containing all of space and matter (or dimension and time); is "something coming from nothing".

Answer 11

The same thing you mut mean - an undefinable and self-contradictory idea - and religious beliefs manage to evade the isuue.

Answer 12

The statement: "Nothing came from noting" is the core of atheists belief. The word nothing is universal.

Answer 13

Christians don't have the ability or desire to analyze their religious catch phrases of ignorance.....they're unthinking god robots made of lunchmeat stuck on repeat....

Answer 14

I've got nothing..

Answer 15

I think it means "not God."